The Browns could land a damaged Andrew Luck for the right price.
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It does not matter if he is healthy or not if he came to the Browns he would be on IR within four weeks because the Browns line is a pile So what is the point if you cannot protect him
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@boo-fagley said:
Get this Knucklehead.
51 Super Bowls.
102 QBs
28 traded QBs have played in Super Bowls including walk ons. They account for 27.4% of all Super Bowls QBs.
74 QBs were drafted by the team that played in the Super Bowl. They account for 72.5 % of all Super Bowl QBs.
12 traded QBs have actually won a Super Bowl. That is 23.5% of winning Super Bowl QBs.
39 drafted QBs have won Super Bowls. That is 76.4% of winning Super Bowl QBs.
What does it all mean? That you are WRONG.
Moreover, I dont care about the good ole football days of Red Grange and Laurel and Hardy. The objective is to win a Super Bowl in todays NFL and not the dusty 4 horsemen offense era that you opine about.
Actually....it means that I am right. That a significant portion of Super Bowl winning and Super Bowl starting QBs were not drafted by the team they went to the Super Bowl with.
And I don't know what you are talking about with "the good old days". My point was about Super Bowl QBs.
Also....I would wager that you are likely lying about your stats. I suspect that you did not include Elway and Eli in your figures as having been traded.
Which means, of course, that I have to do what you claim to be research all over again.
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@boo-fagley said:
They are fact.
HOF website and Football reference were used to compile these indisputable facts although someone we know will spin, weasel and connive and give it his best shot.
SB WINNERS { FA QB in bold} Brady, Pmanning, Brady, Wilson, Flacco, Emnning, Rodgers, Brees, Ben, Emanning, Pmanning, Ben, Brady, Brady, Johnson, Brady, Dilfer, Warner, Elway, Elway, Farve, Aikman, Young, Aikman, Aikman, Rypien, Hostetler, Montana, Montana, Williams, Sims, Mcmahon, Montana, Plunkett, Theisman, Montana, Plunkett, Bradshaw, Bradshaw, Staubach, Staubach, Bradshaw, Bradshaw, Greise, Greise, Staubach, Untias, Dawson, Namath, Starr, Starr.
12 FA QBs or walk ons have won Super Bowls.
1 FA QB has won 2 Super Bowls in 51 years - Plunkett
10 DRAFTED QBs have won 2 or more Super Bowls. Brady x 5, E Manning x 2, Ben x 2, Elway x 2, Aikman, x 3, Montana x 4, Bradshaw x 4, Staubach x 3, Griese x 2, Starr x 2. 29 56% of the total 51 Super Bowls have been won by just 10 DRAFTED QBs.
NO FA QB has gone to successive Super Bowls in 51 years.
8 DRAFTED QBs have gone to back to back Super Bowls and Bradshaw did it twice.
Time for the Browns to land a Franchise QB that will take this team to at least 2 Super Bowls. You cannot win it if youre not even there.
Yep. See what I mean.....your own documentation reveals you as either a liar or a nincompoop.
Eli was traded, Elway was traded. Favre was traded.
That is 5 additional Super Bowls won by QBs who were traded than you claim.
Making it 17 out of the 51. That is a full one third. In case you can't do the math...that is 33.3%.
Like I said....a significant portion of SB winning did not win with the team that drafted them.
Is it simple historical fact....or simple math that you have a problem with?
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@boo-fagley said:
They are fact.
HOF website and Football reference were used to compile these indisputable facts although someone we know will spin, weasel and connive and give it his best shot.
SB WINNERS { FA QB in bold} Brady, Pmanning, Brady, Wilson, Flacco, Emnning, Rodgers, Brees, Ben, Emanning, Pmanning, Ben, Brady, Brady, Johnson, Brady, Dilfer, Warner, Elway, Elway, Farve, Aikman, Young, Aikman, Aikman, Rypien, Hostetler, Montana, Montana, Williams, Sims, Mcmahon, Montana, Plunkett, Theisman, Montana, Plunkett, Bradshaw, Bradshaw, Staubach, Staubach, Bradshaw, Bradshaw, Greise, Greise, Staubach, Untias, Dawson, Namath, Starr, Starr.
12 FA QBs or walk ons have won Super Bowls.
1 FA QB has won 2 Super Bowls in 51 years - Plunkett
10 DRAFTED QBs have won 2 or more Super Bowls. Brady x 5, E Manning x 2, Ben x 2, Elway x 2, Aikman, x 3, Montana x 4, Bradshaw x 4, Staubach x 3, Griese x 2, Starr x 2. 29 56% of the total 51 Super Bowls have been won by just 10 DRAFTED QBs.
NO FA QB has gone to successive Super Bowls in 51 years.
8 DRAFTED QBs have gone to back to back Super Bowls and Bradshaw did it twice.
Time for the Browns to land a Franchise QB that will take this team to at least 2 Super Bowls. You cannot win it if youre not even there.
Can't dispute your research. Developing a QB is ideal. This team hasn't shown an ability to do that. Get Luck and a QB guru and make this team a legit contender.
Can't dispute your research. Developing a QB is ideal. This team hasn't shown an ability to do that. Get Luck and a QB guru and make this team a legit contender.
Except...of course, you can dispute....because there are glaring errors there.....errors or lies.
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This team is so bad, the #1 pick might demand to be traded. Knock on the Colts door and break bread. Give them any damn thing they want. The team trading for the superstar usually ends up on top in the end. Pounce while he's hurt.
Ya, hurt with a very potential career ending labrum tear.
Ya, hurt with a very potential career ending labrum tear.
That, plus a rotator cuff tear ended Tim Couch's career.
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Ya, hurt with a very potential career ending labrum tear.
That, plus a rotator cuff tear ended Tim Couch's career.
That, plus a rotator cuff tear ended Tim Couch's career.
I tore mine up in 1990. Labrum, rotor and cartlige. Had a good surgeon and pushed the rehab therapy. I did good but anything overhead or a throwing like motion always evokes that knife point of pain in my shoulder joint. Any Dr will tell you too, you never come back 100% from an injury like that.
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NO FA QB has gone to successive Super Bowls in 51 years.
So what? They have come close. Kurt Warner went in 1999 and again in 2001.
A number of QBs that were traded went to consecutive SBs....including Tarkenton, Theisman, Favre, Elway.
And remember....Free Agency has only been available to NFL players for about half the time the SB has been played. So that limits the field there.
Again....the simple point I have made through all this is: Sure, it is better to draft and develop your own Franchise QB. But it may not be the only way it can be done. History has shown this. (and yet, somehow you wish to argue with that undeniable fact).
And the further point is that the Browns should not preclude any avenue in obtaining a decent QB. God knows they cannot afford to do that.
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@boo-fagley said:
Farve was not highlighted.
13 QBs. You are still wrong.
E Manning refused to play for SD and Elway refused to play for Indy. To include them in rebuttal is weak. Should the Patriots get credit for Plunkett? Of course not, there was never ever a guarantee that he would even make to a Super Bowl.
.
This is why people think that people from Massachussets can be stupid....even with all the educational institutions that are there.
Eli Manning was traded.
John Elway was traded.
You cannot change history.
Are you going to claim the South won the Civil War?
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@boo-fagley said:
I gave you Unitas and Warner so quit complaining.
Elway and E Manning demanded trades that were began on or before draft day.
You didn't "give" me anything. I simply stated plain, undeniable facts. And...oh yes...note YOUR highlighted word.
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@boo-fagley said:
Plunkett played for NE.
Farve played for Atlanta.
E Manning and Elway were traded before they boarded the plane to SD or Baltimore.
Its cut and dry, but easy to see why someone from Ohio cant connect the dots.
Your dots are the ones scrambled. Yes. all of the above is true. Manning and Elway were traded before they ever played for those teams....but they WERE traded.
What is it about the word "Trade" that you don't understand?
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@boo-fagley said:
You have 13 traded QBs instead of 12 QBs that have won Super Bowls.
13 vs 38. 25.4% vs 74.5% Bravo.
Are you talking winners of the SB...or losers? As for Super Bowl losing QBs, all of the following appeared in the Super Bowl with a team other than the one that drafted them:
Len Dawson
Daryl Lamonica
Earl Morrall
Joe Kapp
Billy Kilmer
Ron Jaworski
Joe Theismann
John Elway
Stan Humphries
Brett Favre
Chris Chandler
Kerry Collins
Rich Gannon
Jake Delhomme
Matt Hasselback
Kurt Warner
And a couple of special cases:
Fran Tarkenton was drafted by the Vikings....then traded to the Giants....but then later traded back to the Vikings with whom he made 3 SB starts.
Jim Kelly drafted by the Bills....but then went to play for a few years with the USFL Houston Gamblers...but then agreed to sign with the Bills when the USFL went under.
So, both Tarkenton and Kelly actually played for other teams before going to the SB with the team that drafted them.
So...fully 16 of these did not go to the SB with the team that drafted them....plus another two went back to their draft team via circuitous routes.
I also italicized those SB losers who also won a Super Bowl ( half including Morrall in this...as he was instrumental in Dolphins 1972 Super Bowl season)
Bottom line: fully one third of all Super Bowl QBs.....winners or losers, went there not with the team that drafted them.
Simple historical fact.
Not sure why that is difficult to comprehend.
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@boo-fagley said:
The whole point is which is better, draft a QB or pick up a FA.
The whole point is that you have more chances drafting a QB, yes, but there have been FAs who have won too. Thanks to your research, it could be said that the odds are that you double the chances drafting (2/3 won SBs by draftees, 1/3 by FAs)
And if the Chargers and the Colts decided to draft a QB that ended up winning Superbowls, but happened that both QBs didn't want to play for them, I wouldn't forget that they actually made the right move by DRAFTING a "SB level quaterback", if that term exists.
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Has a SB-winning QB ever been traded away after his SB win?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Has a SB-winning QB ever been traded away after his SB win?
Joe Namath to the LA Rams?
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Peyton was not traded... he was released.
Ditto for Warner... released by the Rams then signed by NYG... released by NYG (in favor of Eli) then signed by AZ.
Joe Namath to the LA Rams?
Thought maybe, but per wiki...
" In the twilight of his career, Namath was waived by the Jets to facilitate a move to the Los Angeles Rams when a trade could not be worked out. "
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
@boo-fagley said:
Why give credit to the team that got rid of them? Do you think that San Diego was smart to keep Rivers and get rid of Manning and Brees?
The whole point is which is better, draft a QB or pick up a FA. How can Elway and Manning have been FA when they never had a contract with SD or Baltimore?
Who is talking about giving any credit to the team that got rid of them? I am giving credit to the teams that made the trade for the. Again...I am only pointing the simple fact that they were traded for and not drafted.
But your second sentence is irrelevent. You ask: which is better, drafting a QB or picking up a FA...and my answer is: It don't matter. You get a good QB however you can get him. My point is to not overlook either option: draft/trade/FA
And whoever said that Elway and Eli Manning were FAs? They were traded
Not sure why it is so hard for you to keep these simple facts straight.
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@boo-fagley said:
The whole point is which is better, draft a QB or pick up a FA.
The whole point is that you have more chances drafting a QB, yes, but there have been FAs who have won too. Thanks to your research, it could be said that the odds are that you double the chances drafting (2/3 won SBs by draftees, 1/3 by FAs)
And if the Chargers and the Colts decided to draft a QB that ended up winning Superbowls, but happened that both QBs didn't want to play for them, I wouldn't forget that they actually made the right move by DRAFTING a "SB level quaterback", if that term exists.
The whole point is that you have more chances drafting a QB, yes, but there have been FAs who have won too. Thanks to your research, it could be said that the odds are that you double the chances drafting (2/3 won SBs by draftees, 1/3 by FAs....or by QBs traded for just to keep the record accurate.
And if the Chargers and the Colts decided to draft a QB that ended up winning Superbowls, but happened that both QBs didn't want to play for them, I wouldn't forget that they actually made the right move by DRAFTING a "SB level quaterback", if that term exists.
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@boo-fagley said:
Thank you Nero.
Great point that Colts and Chargers drafted Super Bowl winners. Elway and Manning were each drafted by 2 teams.
No Sheet Sherlock....and then they were traded.
The Chargers actually traded away two Super Bowl winning QBs this century: Eli and Brees.
And they have yet to win a title since 1963. So that sucks for them.
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