Should we draft a quarterback 1st overall?
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I don't think it deserves its own thread, but I just saw an article with the headline of, "Browns would pick first and seventh as of today."
Well, maybe the thread named "Two picks in the Top Ten".
What are your thoughts on LSU RB Derrius Guice? In some mock drafts appeared landing in the Browns, though I imagine things will change a lot until April.
Well, maybe the thread named "Two picks in the Top Ten".
What are your thoughts on LSU RB Derrius Guice? In some mock drafts appeared landing in the Browns, though I imagine things will change a lot until April.
To be honest, I don't know THAT much about him. Highlight reels are obviously misleading, but I can tell you there's a lot to like about the kid. He appears to have stellar vision and a "slippery" type of running style. Easily executes smooth "jump-cuts" and accelerates quickly. Not afraid of contact, and seems adept at running inside or out. Strong, sturdy frame with a near ideal build (5'11, 212 pounds). I've read some people compare him to a Frank Gore type of runner, but I think Guice has a bit more elusiveness. I'm not sure where he's slated to go in the draft, and obviously that will drastically change in the next 6 months, but the guy looks to be everything I would hope for. I'd love him on our team. Any chance he slides to second round? LOL. Also, I don't think he has a knack for fumbling either. As far as what he needs to work on...I'd say the usual "college stuff". Pass protection, pass catching, etc. I think he only has about 15 receptions this year for 100 yards or so. That could just be a function of LSU's offense, but I personally believe pass catching is the easiest aspect of RB to work on. Rookie RB's are notoriously poor at pass protection, and this is another aspect that is easily coached if the player has a nose for contact and the will to improve. Typically NFL teams won't play their RB's until they show the ability to protect the prized QB's.
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I don't think it deserves its own thread, but I just saw an article with the headline of, "Browns would pick first and seventh as of today." As I'm sure most of us know, Houston managed to lose a close game to the Ravens last night. Savage did a nice job for most of the game trying to get the ball to Deandre Hopkins, who is quickly becoming one of the most unstoppable forces in the league (if he's not there already). He's literally impossible to cover 1 on 1, and he catches darn near everything. Despite this, Savage managed to cough the ball up a few times and the Ravens hung on. Each and every loss the Texans incur drastically improves our draft pick in both the first and second rounds. A quick glance at the Texans' remaining opponents reveals they play the Titans next, and then the 49's. I'm guessing they win one of their next five games, or two at the most. Bottom line, I think we'll be picking first and probably around 7 or 8 in the first round...very nice indeed. Ideally the Texans would lose out, but I don't see that happening. My absolute DREAM draft would be picking Rosen first, and then getting Derwin James with our next pick. Some will say that Peppers is too close to James, and they're probably right, but Derwin is an impact player and we NEED those, right? I don't see a WR worthy of a top 10 pick, do you guys? Anyways, the Texans lost last night, and that's a small bit of silver-lining for us.
Note: At one time I really wanted Saquon Barkely, but I've soured on him somewhat. I still think he's a great player, but I don't think he's in the same caliber of "bell cow" as a Todd Gurley or Leonard Fournette. Some people believe Alabama's WR Ridley is worthy of a top ten pick, but I'm not so sure. I'm not as fond of the smaller type WR's (ahem, Coleman), but if Ridley is adept at the slot, or if Coleman can be pushed there...I could see it working. More realistic is Alabama's top cornerback, Minkah Fitzpatrick. I believe he can play both corner AND safety, and THAT'S something I can get behind. (even I understand that having Derwin James and Peppers in the same secondary doesn't really work...just pisses me off that we drafted Peppers because I'd bet the farm Derwin James is actually going to make an impact)
... and then getting Derwin James with our next pick.
Again, have to ask... who has seen him lately? Has he fully comeback from his injury?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
New to the forum but my two cents...
the QB room has been awful and I would rather have too many options than go through another year like this year’s QB crop. That being said...
1. Need a vet - Whether they are enticed as a potential starter (see Matt Flynn, e.g McCarron, Tyrod) or bring in an old dog (McCown, Fitz) - we need an experienced QB in the room to mentor not only the QBs but also provide game day leadership. Our HC should NOT be providing that role, especially on game day.
2. Take a QB and high. I personally like Mayfield as I think he is accurate, throws receivers open, and goes through reads. I’m not worried about his size as he plays behind a 6’5” OL and has the fewest number of tipped balls of the top prospects (but I digress). take a QB high and sit him and develop him.
3. Keep Kizer, give him an off-season with the club and his WRs, let him grow.
Make these three battle it out in camp, vet or Kizer with the initial reps. If the rookie outshines both - that’s a win. We can’t ignore the QB room again
New to the forum but my two cents...
the QB room has been awful and I would rather have too many options than go through another year like this year’s QB crop. That being said...
1. Need a vet - Whether they are enticed as a potential starter (see Matt Flynn, e.g McCarron, Tyrod) or bring in an old dog (McCown, Fitz) - we need an experienced QB in the room to mentor not only the QBs but also provide game day leadership. Our HC should NOT be providing that role, especially on game day.
2. Take a QB and high. I personally like Mayfield as I think he is accurate, throws receivers open, and goes through reads. I’m not worried about his size as he plays behind a 6’5” OL and has the fewest number of tipped balls of the top prospects (but I digress). take a QB high and sit him and develop him.
3. Keep Kizer, give him an off-season with the club and his WRs, let him grow.
Make these three battle it out in camp, vet or Kizer with the initial reps. If the rookie outshines both - that’s a win. We can’t ignore the QB room again
Well, first, the minimum for noobs is two-bits...
Second, welcome... similar thoughts here on the QB room, although the names change. I do disagree that we have "ignored" the QB room. I just see us not being convinced of the prospects with which we have been presented where they have been presented, e.g., moving up for Goff, turning down to firsts for Wentz, Trubs at #1 or moving up to get him after taking Myles. Adding Kessler and Kizer to the room the past two drafts weren't "nothing" moves.
Vets: I'd pass on the Tyrods and McCarrons of the league, QBs who definitely see themselves as starters, in favor of solid career backups. Looking thru the 2018 FAs as of now the candidates that jump out at me include Matt Moore (although I've a feeling the Fins will work to resign him), HOU's TJ Yates and maybe NOLA's Chase Daniels. I'd have zero issues with bringing back Josh McCown, but given the year he has had I can see him re-upping to start for the Jets one more year of play plus mentoring a draft pick there.
Draft: I'm a Rosen guy... through and through, but am open to a 2-QB draft with Benkert as the second choice in the first half of Day 2 the way it looks now. That would put the kibosh on signing a vet (assuming Kizer is the 3rd QB in the room), but with the right QB Coach and/or a full time OC, that's not a huge hole.
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... and then getting Derwin James with our next pick.
Again, have to ask... who has seen him lately? Has he fully comeback from his injury?
Again, have to ask... who has seen him lately? Has he fully comeback from his injury?
Oh yeah. Had a pick 6 two weeks ago, and he's been a nightmare all season. Although he's dropped two picks...he's still a monster and always near the ball. His injury wasn't as severe as an ACL, and he probably could've come back last year at some point, but they didn't figure it was worth it. He'll be a top 5 pick and his stock will skyrocket after the combine. He'll put up stupid numbers.
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Here's my fear on this FO & HC. These idiots are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA case and trade out of that position where they can easily take Rosen. That would be the ultimte Browns nightmare that would last for more years to come. I trust Hue on QBs about as far as I could toss him. The FO even less.
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Here's my fear on this FO & HC. These idiots are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA case and trade out of that position where they can easily take Rosen. That would be the ultimte Browns nightmare that would last for more years to come. I trust Hue on QBs about as far as I could toss him. The FO even less.
Here's my fear on this FO & HC. These idiots are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA case and trade out of that position where they can easily take Rosen. That would be the ultimte Browns nightmare that would last for more years to come. I trust Hue on QBs about as far as I could toss him. The FO even less.
That's what I've been worried about if everyone makes it to Season 3, its that they would know they need to start showing results NOW, and in their mind relying on a rookie QB isn't the way for them to go. So they'd pass on another QB high in the draft, get McCarron instead, suck, and all get fired anyway.
Basically Butch Davis/Jeff Garcia/Ben Roethlisburger all over again.
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Here's my fear on this FO & HC. These idiots are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA case and trade out of that position where they can easily take Rosen. That would be the ultimte Browns nightmare that would last for more years to come. I trust Hue on QBs about as far as I could toss him. The FO even less.
These
idiotsgeniuses are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA caseHmmmm... might have to add AJ to my "vet presence" list.
McCarron-Kizer-Rosen... a QB room that works for me.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
These
idiotsgeniuses are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA caseHmmmm... might have to add AJ to my "vet presence" list.
McCarron-Kizer-Rosen... a QB room that works for me.
Hmmmm... might have to add AJ to my "vet presence" list.
McCarron-Kizer-Rosen... a QB room that works for me.
"Vet" has to be a real stretch of the imagination on AJ Mr. Trump..............................er.......... Tour.
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These
idiotsgeniuses are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA caseHmmmm... might have to add AJ to my "vet presence" list.
McCarron-Kizer-Rosen... a QB room that works for me.
Hmmmm... might have to add AJ to my "vet presence" list.
McCarron-Kizer-Rosen... a QB room that works for me.
Yep, you've pretty much nailed it. There are a few problems with this strategy though. At the moment, McCarron is involved in a case with the league to become an unrestricted free agent. I don't know what the timeline is for something like that, but if he's granted FA status, I don't see him going to a team unless he's pretty much promised the starting role. Has he earned that? I don't think so, but I'm guessing that would be his mindset. Could he go to the Jaguars and be THEIR starter? I would argue he's better than Bortles right now. ESPECIALLY with that defense. How about the Bills or even the Giants? Jets? Broncos? My point is, I think McCarron will be looked at by some teams as their "starting QB", and right or wrong, he'll be somewhat promised the starting role.
I saw yet another article saying the best thing the Browns can do to fix the QB position is to pay Kirk Cousins big money. Personally, I don't see the Redskins letting him walk, and they'll either hammer out a deal or franchise him again for an absurd amount of money. However, if that DOESN'T happen, the Browns certainly have the cap space to offer a stupid level contract, and it's probably worth it. If that happens, bring back Pryor. Draft another WR. Draft a RB. It might be a pipe dream, but if you break the bank and get Cousins, Pryor, draft Darrius Guice at RB, and draft another WR, all of the sudden you might have a team. I refuse to add Josh Gordon to our list of 2018 weapons because we've learned he's fool's gold.
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I think Cousins is fool's gold... a/k/a made for us?
He's just good enough to contend.
"Vet" has to be a real stretch of the imagination on AJ Mr. Trump..............................er.......... Tour.
Why? Finishing his 3rd year in the league... solid citizen... smart... hard-working... Hue would know whether his game prep is the example-worthy stuff.
Not saying he jumps to the top of the list, just an addition. But he does violate my "still sees himself as a starter" criteria.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I'm not sold on Rosen at all:
http://www.walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018jrosen.php
but he definitely needs to improve his vision for the NFL. UCLA has called a lot of primary-option quick-pass plays, so Rosen could use more reps taking deep drops and working through reads.
Like all college players, there are things that Rosen can improve on. For one, he could stand to get better with the consistency of his accuracy. There are times when Rosen gets into stretches where his accuracy is off and he can miss some throws he should complete. Rosen needs to get faster and speed up the process to scan through his progressions, too. In the pros, he is going to need to move his eyes more and not lock onto his primary read or one of the side of the field so much. The junior also needs to stay healthy in 2017 to avoid having serious durability concerns about him for the NFL.
One of the big problems for Rosen entering his junior year is that he has developed a reputation for having poor intangibles as a bad teammate and leader. Football is an emotional game, and NFL teams want their quarterbacks to be positive team leaders. Whether it is a vocal leader or a quiet lead-by-example type, NFL evaluators and coaches want the quarterback to be a player who teammates gravitate toward with the ability to lead his team in crunch time. Rosen is said to be disliked in the Bruins' locker room, and it sounds like he needs a personality make-over. A scout who has done advance work on the 2018 NFL Draft had this to say about Rosen:
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"Right now I have them rated [Sam] Darnold, [Josh] Allen, [Lamar] Jackson, and then Rosen....Rosen has huge talent and lacks intangibles. He is a prototypical pocket guy. I love his talent, but his own teammates don't like him. Being a prick is one thing, but there aren't many quarterbacks who stick around long-term and are successful that couldn't get along well with their teammates."
Read more at http://www.walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018jrosen.php#eOKQCFDTd5hOv4F2.99 -
"Right now I have them rated [Sam] Darnold, [Josh] Allen, [Lamar] Jackson, and then Rosen....Rosen has huge talent and lacks intangibles. He is a prototypical pocket guy. I love his talent, but his own teammates don't like him. Being a prick is one thing, but there aren't many quarterbacks who stick around long-term and are successful that couldn't get along well with their teammates."
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The No. 1 pick: Josh Allen, Wyoming
The following anecdote might not come as a surprise: Allen once told his roommate, former Wyoming wide receiver Joe Parker, that he’d be taken in the first round of the NFL draft.
But Allen didn’t make this prediction while his stock was growing in recent months, or even last fall, when his rocket arm and pocket savvy led the wildly overlooked recruit from central California to pop up on the radar of NFL scouts and personnel executives. He made this bold claim last spring, after having participated in 15 plays on the Football Bowl Subdivision level.
“If no one else is going to believe in you, at least you’ve got yourself,” Allen said. “I’m just an extremely confident guy, and I think I’m the best quarterback in the country. I don’t know why I believed it. It’s just the things I feel like I can do are better than what other people can do.”
Allen has blazed a path from Firebaugh, where he earned no scholarship offers as a senior, to potentially being the first overall pick in next spring’s NFL draft, a fact that would fulfill his bold claim, albeit one year later than projected.
He has the arm. The athleticism. The almost limitless room for growth. All that’s missing for Allen might be experience.
He spent one year at a junior college in Reedley, Calif., before enrolling at Wyoming, and took just those 15 snaps in 2015 before a season-ending injury in the second game. It was enough to cause Allen to fly under the radar. But the secret is out: Wyoming is home to the QB projected at this early stage to top next year’s draft.
“I don’t want to be a quarterback that’s drafted in the first round and then four years later it’s like, ‘Who the hell is this guy?’ ” Allen said. “I want to play 15-plus years. I want to be known as one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play the game. And I know to do that you have to start well. The NFL isn’t going away. It’ll be there next year.”
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Here is my dark horse qb if he enters the 2018 draft. This is also a kid
I would draft for the Browns.
https://nflmocks.com/2017/08/04/nebraska-qb-tanner-lee-draw-nfl-scouts-attention/
"Nebraska welcomed Lee. Former NFL general manager Billy Devaney, the Huskers’ executive director of player personnel, had heard about him from Archie Manning, the former New Orleans Saints QB, father of Peyton and Eli and executive director of the Manning Passing Academy.
Devaney said in February that Archie told him after the 2015 session of the academy that Lee outperformed California’s Jared Goff, who went on to become the 2016 No. 1 overall draft pick.
“We have a boy here that put him to shame,” Devaney quoted Archie as saying. “There is a boy down at Tulane named Tanner Lee. I said, ‘You’ve got to be kidding me.’ I know how Goff throws, and you are saying Tanner Lee throws the ball better? Archie said, ‘There was no comparison. You have to keep your eye on this boy from Tulane.’ “
LINCOLN, Neb. — The reason you haven’t heard the buzz is because the Manning family does a great job of keeping the media away from the Manning Passing Academy, says Patrick Woo, who scouts for the Reese’s Senior Bowl.
But buzz is starting to trickle out from the camp, which ended Sunday in Thibodaux, La.
And it’s about Nebraska quarterback Tanner Lee.
“[Louisville QB] Lamar Jackson, UCLA’s Josh Rosen and USC’s Sam Darnold are great, but Tanner Lee was my favorite guy,” said Woo, who helps build the Senior Bowl roster and serves as a liaison between college programs and NFL coaching staffs.
Woo was on hand for the Manning Camp last week, where 43 of the nation’s top college quarterbacks worked out with Super Bowl-winning QBs Peyton and Eli Manning. Woo first saw Lee at the camp in 2015, when Lee was at Tulane. He stood out then, and he stood out more last week.
“He looks the part. And he threw the ball well in 2015 and it was no surprise he won the starting job at Tulane,” Woo said. “At that time in the college football landscape, he was the best QB in the state of Louisiana because LSU was struggling to find the guy.
“He had a really impressive spring this spring. He’s a big body, and has a strong arm. A really, really strong arm.”
Woo said the two things that stood out about Lee were his accuracy and how well he throws the deep ball.
“He embodies everything you want in a true pocket passer,” Woo said. “His ability to place the ball is great. I thought he moved around well; I thought he showed a lot of mobility. And he’s a great guy. I really enjoyed spending time with him.”
Woo thinks Lee can throw the deep ball “as good as anyone in the country.”
And if the 2017 season goes as well, Lee could be looking at a tough decision.
“If he plays up to his capable skills, he may or may not have a decision to make come NFL draft time after this season,” Woo said.
At Tulane, Lee threw for 1,639 yards and 11 touchdowns as a sophomore in 2015.
He started as a true freshman in 2014, throwing for 1,962 yards and 12 touchdowns. He transferred to Nebraska after the 2015 season.
earned Scout Team MVP honors during the 2016 season. Lee and redshirt freshman Patrick O’Brien switched off first-team snaps during the spring, but Huskers coach Mike Riley named Lee the starter one week after the spring game.
At 6-foot-4 and 220 pounds, Lee will be Riley’s first pro-style passer while at Nebraska. Woo thinks the Lee-Riley combination could be great for both parties.
“I don’t know if he’ll get All-Big Ten Conference votes, but I do know he’s one of the most talented throwers in the league, and an outstanding leader,” Woo said. “I think he can be an elite game manager, and he can do more than that if Nebraska is able to open things up.”
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with all the great talent in this next qb class, if Lee is in the 2018 draft - my two picks for the Browns
are Allen and Lee. Argue stats forever, but stats don't make the case entirely at all.
I look for a pro quarterback that can lead his team, character/intelligent football IQ/love for the game/leadership/intangibles to inspire his teammates..
it's easy to find the physical tools. btw, nole that Woo says Lee throws better than Goff. I mean, seriously -
Josh Allen or Tanner Lee. Take it to the bank, jack.
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Here's my fear on this FO & HC. These idiots are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA case and trade out of that position where they can easily take Rosen. That would be the ultimte Browns nightmare that would last for more years to come. I trust Hue on QBs about as far as I could toss him. The FO even less.
Here's my fear on this FO & HC. These idiots are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA case and trade out of that position where they can easily take Rosen. That would be the ultimte Browns nightmare that would last for more years to come. I trust Hue on QBs about as far as I could toss him. The FO even less.
My fear is that all these idiots will be here to attempt such a move:
Solution: get rid of these idiots.
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These
idiotsgeniuses are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA caseHmmmm... might have to add AJ to my "vet presence" list.
McCarron-Kizer-Rosen... a QB room that works for me.
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Here's my fear on this FO & HC. These idiots are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA case and trade out of that position where they can easily take Rosen. That would be the ultimte Browns nightmare that would last for more years to come. I trust Hue on QBs about as far as I could toss him. The FO even less.
Here's my fear on this FO & HC. These idiots are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA case and trade out of that position where they can easily take Rosen. That would be the ultimte Browns nightmare that would last for more years to come. I trust Hue on QBs about as far as I could toss him. The FO even less.
I'm also afraid of that scenario. I think we should take a veteran QB before the draft, but I won't stay calm until we draft a QB. Them sticking to McCarron as our QBotF is scary. Hell, in Spanish his name (macarrón) means macaroni, I can't take him seriously.
It'd be SO stupid not to draft a QB this April...
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I could be happy with Allen or Lee later with the second first round pick, even with a trade down and Lee..
and pick Minkah Fitspatrick cb/fs with the first pick. should be an amazing draft.
but you have to pick a qb - we'll know more after watching Kizer play out the rest of the season.
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I love how people wail ceaselessly about us trading out of goff and wentz. Now want us trade out of rosen/darnold/allen etc. All who at this point of their careers faced much tougher opponents than wentz did.
Look perhaps personal issues crop up with rosen. But as of right now that kids the clear eye test winner. I pointed out a play he made against the usc game where he exhibited poise in the face of a free charging pass rusher that i honestly cant remember seeing from anyone, especially in college. Freezing the rusher with a pump fake aimed directly at him allowing an underneath crossing route to come free for a first down......i mean damn. Its easy to get googly eyed by arm talent....weedon.....but that kind of pocket poise is almost more important
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These
idiotsgeniuses are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA caseHmmmm... might have to add AJ to my "vet presence" list.
McCarron-Kizer-Rosen... a QB room that works for me.
Hmmmm... might have to add AJ to my "vet presence" list.
McCarron-Kizer-Rosen... a QB room that works for me.
A little shocked you hadn't arrived at that potential lineup a while ago.
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