Should we draft a quarterback 1st overall?
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You've produced five instances of you talking about Mayfield, four of which were on the same thread. Trust me, the amount of pro-Allen/anti-Rosen posts DWARF these handful of Mayfield posts. You've pretty much become PoG-like in your obsession with posting about your undying love of Allen, and your hatred of Rosen.
And like I've said before, and in fact BEFORE you started your tireless ripping of Rosen, his personality has been a topic of conversation for a while. In fact, I read something this summer about Rosen being compared personality-wise to Manziel. Trust me, this concerns me too...
On-the-field, though, Rosen is laughably ahead of Allen.
Yeah- is some of the off field background noise about Rosen or Mayfield a concern? Of course. The Browns (or any other team that thinks they have a shot at either) are going to do due diligence. Plenty of research, background checks, talking to teammates, coaches, etc. I've said it before too- interviews .
Hell's Bells, I posted it in the Gordon thread, if we're talking character and "intangibles" assuming due diligence- there's absolutely no way any NFL team would have drafted Josh- even as a supplemental 7th round pick. LOL, Heckert might have been high when he drafted him.
Yeah- is some of the off field background noise about Rosen or Mayfield a concern? Of course. The Browns (or any other team that thinks they have a shot at either) are going to do due diligence. Plenty of research, background checks, talking to teammates, coaches, etc. I've said it before too- interviews .
Hell's Bells, I posted it in the Gordon thread, if we're talking character and "intangibles" assuming due diligence- there's absolutely no way any NFL team would have drafted Josh- even as a supplemental 7th round pick. LOL, Heckert might have been high when he drafted him.
Why do we need to be arguing over Rosen or Mayfield or Allen? When Mason Rudolph will likely, when all things come around to it, be considered the primary candidate to be taken #1.
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Yeah- is some of the off field background noise about Rosen or Mayfield a concern? Of course. The Browns (or any other team that thinks they have a shot at either) are going to do due diligence. Plenty of research, background checks, talking to teammates, coaches, etc. I've said it before too- interviews .
Hell's Bells, I posted it in the Gordon thread, if we're talking character and "intangibles" assuming due diligence- there's absolutely no way any NFL team would have drafted Josh- even as a supplemental 7th round pick. LOL, Heckert might have been high when he drafted him.
Why do we need to be arguing over Rosen or Mayfield or Allen? When Mason Rudolph will likely, when all things come around to it, be considered the primary candidate to be taken #1.
Why do we need to be arguing over Rosen or Mayfield or Allen? When Mason Rudolph will likely, when all things come around to it, be considered the primary candidate to be taken #1.
Because it's more likely that he won't be?
1. Cleveland Browns
Josh Rosen, QB, UCLA. OK, so the Browns aren't particularly "strong" at the quarterback position, but they did just pick DeShone Kizer in Round 2 in 2017, and he's shown some signs of improvement over the past two weeks... with Corey Coleman back in the lineup, imagine that. Regardless of that, the Browns grab Rosen here, arguably one of the most fundamentally sound quarterback prospects to enter the league over the past two seasons.
FYI... in this mock Darnold goes at #3 to NYG and Rudolph at 31 to NE. Only three QBs mocked in Round One.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Why do we need to be arguing over Rosen or Mayfield or Allen? When Mason Rudolph will likely, when all things come around to it, be considered the primary candidate to be taken #1.
Because it's more likely that he won't be?
1. Cleveland Browns
Josh Rosen, QB, UCLA. OK, so the Browns aren't particularly "strong" at the quarterback position, but they did just pick DeShone Kizer in Round 2 in 2017, and he's shown some signs of improvement over the past two weeks... with Corey Coleman back in the lineup, imagine that. Regardless of that, the Browns grab Rosen here, arguably one of the most fundamentally sound quarterback prospects to enter the league over the past two seasons.
FYI... in this mock Darnold goes at #3 to NYG and Rudolph at 31 to NE. Only three QBs mocked in Round One.
Because it's more likely that he won't be?
1. Cleveland Browns
Josh Rosen, QB, UCLA. OK, so the Browns aren't particularly "strong" at the quarterback position, but they did just pick DeShone Kizer in Round 2 in 2017, and he's shown some signs of improvement over the past two weeks... with Corey Coleman back in the lineup, imagine that. Regardless of that, the Browns grab Rosen here, arguably one of the most fundamentally sound quarterback prospects to enter the league over the past two seasons.
FYI... in this mock Darnold goes at #3 to NYG and Rudolph at 31 to NE. Only three QBs mocked in Round One.
Its early yet. I think Wentz was mocked to go like 31....until he began working out and getting more scrutiny.
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Because it's more likely that he won't be?
1. Cleveland Browns
Josh Rosen, QB, UCLA. OK, so the Browns aren't particularly "strong" at the quarterback position, but they did just pick DeShone Kizer in Round 2 in 2017, and he's shown some signs of improvement over the past two weeks... with Corey Coleman back in the lineup, imagine that. Regardless of that, the Browns grab Rosen here, arguably one of the most fundamentally sound quarterback prospects to enter the league over the past two seasons.
FYI... in this mock Darnold goes at #3 to NYG and Rudolph at 31 to NE. Only three QBs mocked in Round One.
Its early yet. I think Wentz was mocked to go like 31....until he began working out and getting more scrutiny.
Its early yet. I think Wentz was mocked to go like 31....until he began working out and getting more scrutiny.
It's not like Rudolph played for North Dakota State Gip. He's been getting plenty of scouting scrutiny already.
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As for Rosen the teammate...
This was written going into the 2017 season by an Aggie 247 contributor.
UCLA teammates and coaches rally around QB Josh Rosen
UCLA quarterback Josh Rosen stirs controversy with his public comments but his teammates have a different opinion of him as a teammate and player
- Jeff Tarpley - Aug 28, 5:49 PM
UCLA quarterback Josh Rosen received the nickname "Chosen" from his friends after a Sports Illustrated spread in 2014. However, although Rosen was seemingly "chosen" to be face of UCLA football, it hasn't worked out as planned. As Thuc Nhi Nguyen writes in the Orange County Register:
Rosen was chosen as the face of UCLA for his on-field talent and his off-field intellect. In the process, his greatest gift, his ever-questioning mind, has also become his great curse.
His honest answers stoke Internet media fires. His habit to ask “why” can be seen as challenging or arrogant. He makes more headlines for his words than his play now, especially after his sophomore season was derailed with a shoulder injury.
Rosen's coach, offensive coordinator Jedd Fisch, read things about Rosen that turned out to be less than accurate.
“I’ve learned that he’s extremely hard working,” the well-traveled 40-year-old assistant said. “That he is extremely diligent. That the game is extremely important to him. That his talent level, while special, also has a lot to do with how much he works at it. … I’ve also learned that he can be coached really hard.”
That’s the Rosen the Bruins know. The one who stays after practice to throw extra routes to any receiver who asks. The one who led every player-run practice this summer, 25 in all. The one who buys his offensive linemen dinner every week and orders them personalized gold necklaces with their last names and jersey numbers.
In fact, his teammates defended him after less than flattering articles in various publications.
“I don’t know how people can jump to that conclusion; we all love Josh,” center Scott Quessenberry said. “He comes out every day and he competes hard.”
“A lot of people don’t have that voice but a lot of us are thinking the things he says,” said safety Jaleel Wadood, who also played with Rosen at St. John Bosco. “Some of us don’t say it because they don’t have that platform like he does.”
It's Rosen's last chance to live up to expectations and be the player that his teammates tell people he is. That chance starts on September 3 versus the Aggies.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Its early yet. I think Wentz was mocked to go like 31....until he began working out and getting more scrutiny.
It's not like Rudolph played for North Dakota State Gip. He's been getting plenty of scouting scrutiny already.
It's not like Rudolph played for North Dakota State Gip. He's been getting plenty of scouting scrutiny already.
Yes...he has....and with that at various times he has been rated the #1 best overall prospect out there....and many have him in the Top Ten.
Point is, there is a lot of variance of opinion on him and on all these guys.
Some say Rosen is #1....others don't have him as a first rounder. Same with Allen, Mayfield, Darnold, all these guys.
There is clearly NO consensus...at all...about these guys.
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It's not like Rudolph played for North Dakota State Gip. He's been getting plenty of scouting scrutiny already.
Yes...he has....and with that at various times he has been rated the #1 best overall prospect out there....and many have him in the Top Ten.
Point is, there is a lot of variance of opinion on him and on all these guys.
Some say Rosen is #1....others don't have him as a first rounder. Same with Allen, Mayfield, Darnold, all these guys.
There is clearly NO consensus...at all...about these guys.
Yes...he has....and with that at various times he has been rated the #1 best overall prospect out there....and many have him in the Top Ten.
Point is, there is a lot of variance of opinion on him and on all these guys.
Some say Rosen is #1....others don't have him as a first rounder. Same with Allen, Mayfield, Darnold, all these guys.
There is clearly NO consensus...at all...about these guys.
It's early yet. We all know a lot of mock drafts had Trubisky as a second rounder at best- and we all know where he went. Only takes one team to fall in love with a guy. Walter Football likes my take apparently . Great college qb who may struggle in the Pros.... Sure, CBS has him as the best prospect, but I'll bet no one else does....
11/30/17: Rudolph is a love/hate prospect in the scouting community. One team source likes Rudolph, but many others are skeptics. A general manager of a playoff team told me they had Rudolph graded on the third day of the 2018 NFL Draft. Another NFC general manager said they thought Rudolph could go on Day 2. An AFC college scouting director of a playoff team said they were giving Rudolph a fifth-round grade. One area scout said that they were really concerned with how Rudolph struggles throwing into tight windows, because he won't have receivers running wide open like they have been for him at Oklahoma State. Given the big discrepancy, Rudolph could go in the early rounds of the 2018 NFL Draft, because it only takes one team to fall in love. Many teams don't like him, however, and have his grade low.
Rudolph has nice size with an arm to deliver the ball downfield. He throws nice touch passes and locates passes well. However, Rudolph is going to need a lot of work on his field vision for the NFL. He rarely works beyond his primary read and constantly stares down his first option. In terms of his longer-term development, Rudolph was wise to return for his senior season. He should focus on improving his field vision to work through progressions before going pro. Along with improving his footwork, working on being under center, and learning how to call NFL plays.
Rudolph will need development as a pro. He will have to work on his shaky accuracy and field vision, and get used to playing under center and calling plays in the huddle. Rudolph is also not very athletic, though he has good size with average arm strength. Going through progressions and reading the field are problems for Rudolph, and he has to improve there for the NFL. His anticipation is terrible, too, and that will have to improve for the pros, or he could be taking a lot of sacks from holding onto the ball too long.
Rudolph didn't have his typical performance when TCU dropped Oklahoma State. He completed 22-of-41 for 398 yards with two touchdowns and two interceptions against the Horned Frogs. Previously this season, Rudolph lit up Tulsa, South Alabama and Pittsburgh. Rudolph didn't play well against Texas and had a plethora of interceptions dropped versus West Virginia.
Rudolph has completed 65 percent of his passes this season for 4,553 yards with 35 touchdowns and nine interceptions.
The top-four draft-eligible quarterback prospects for the 2018 NFL Draft are USC's Sam Darnold, Louisville's Lamar Jackson, Wyoming's Josh Allen and Rosen.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2018QB.php#HlT7j4wWV78BAj6v.99 -
Last week Rudolph was #1 overall....this week #12. Next week?
2018 TOP NFL DRAFT PROSPECTS - QUARTERBACK RK PLAYER POS POS RK SCHOOL CLASS HT WT 8 Lamar Jackson QB 5 Louisville Jr 6-3 200 12 Mason Rudolph QB 2 Oklahoma State Sr 6-5 230 17 Josh Rosen QB 3 UCLA Jr 6-4 220 22 Sam Darnold QB 1 Southern California Soph 6-4 225 39 Baker Mayfield QB 8 Oklahoma Sr 6-1 218 67 Ryan Finley QB 0 NC State Jr 6-4 205 -
This one Draftek...has Rudolph #2 overall....Darnold 1. Mayfield not in first round:
Rk Chg Player College P1 Ht Wt P2 Dif BIO SCT 1 -- Sam Darnold USC QB 6'4" 225 BIO -- 2 -- Mason Rudolph Oklahoma State QB 6'4" 235 BIO -- 3 
+5
Minkah Fitzpatrick Alabama S 6'2" 216 BIO -- 4 +1
Saquon Barkley Penn State RBF 5'11" 223 BIO -- 5 +1
Harold Landry Boston College EDGE 6'3" 250 OLB -2 BIO -- 6 
-3
Derwin James Florida State S 6'2" 213 BIO -- 7 -3
Josh Rosen UCLA QB 6'3" 210 BIO -- 8 -1
Christian Wilkins Clemson DL3T 6'3" 310 BIO -- 9 +16
Bradley Chubb NC State EDGE 6'3" 273 OLB 0 BIO -- 10 -1
Mike McGlinchey Notre Dame OT 6'7" 310 BIO -- 11 +103
Brian O'Neill Pittsburgh OT 6'6" 305 BIO -- 12 -2
Arden Key LSU EDGE 6'6" 231 OLB -6 BIO -- 13 -1
Derrius Guice LSU RBF 5'11" 212 BIO -- 14 +107
Bryce Love Stanford RBF 5'10" 196 BIO -- 15 +48
Courtland Sutton SMU WRF 6'4" 225 BIO -- 16 +6
Derrick Nnadi Florida State DL3T 6'1" 303 BIO -- 17 +1
James Washington Oklahoma State WRF 6'0" 205 BIO -- 18 +3
Sam Hubbard Ohio State EDGE 6'5" 266 OLB -3 BIO -- 19 -2
Micah Kiser Virginia ILB 6'2" 240 BIO -- 20 +52
Jamarco Jones Ohio State OT 6'5" 310 BIO -- 21 +11
Denzel Ward Ohio State CB 5'11" 184 BIO -- 22 +149
Rashaan Evans Alabama ILB 6'2" 231 BIO -- 23 +1
Maurice Hurst Michigan DL3T 6'2" 282 BIO -- 24 +16
Dorance Armstrong Kansas EDGE 6'4" 241 OLB -44 BIO -- 25 +12
Lamar Jackson Louisville QB 6'2" 205 BIO -- 26 +4
Tyquan Lewis Ohio State EDGE 6'3" 260 BIO -- 27 +33
Mark Andrews Oklahoma TE 6'5" 253 BIO -- 28 -9
Christian Kirk Texas A&M WRS 5'11" 201 BIO -- 29 +129
Dante Booker Ohio State OLB 6'3" 233 BIO -- 30 -3
Ronnie Harrison Alabama S 6'2" 216 BIO -- 31 NEW Josh Adams Notre Dame RBF 6'2" 220 BIO -- 32 NEW Joshua Jackson Iowa CB 6'1" 192 BIO -- 33 -10
Malik Jefferson Texas ILB 6'3" 238 BIO -- 34 -19
Tarvarus McFadden Florida State CB 6'1" 201 BIO -- -
Draftwire has it this way: (# represent overall prospect number)"
#4 Rosen
#6 Jackson
#8 Darnold
#20 Mayfield
#22 Rudolph
(no others in top 50)
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Some writer from USA Today has these (QB rankings only). this does not say what round or anything:
1. Jackson
2. Mayfield
3. Rosen
4. Darnold
5. Allen
6. Rudolph
7. Riley Ferguson..Memphis
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A Bleacher Report writer has it like this:
1 Sam Darnold USC 2 Josh Rosen UCLA 3 Josh Allen Wyoming 4 Baker Mayfield Oklahoma 5 Lamar Jackson Louisville 6 Mason Rudolph Oklahoma State 7 Luke Falk Washington State 8 Nick Fitzgerald Mississippi State 9 Will Grier West Virginia 10 Jarrett Stidham Auburn -
Sports Illustrated has these as Top Ten overall prospects:
1. Saquon Barkley, RB, Penn State
2. Bradley Chubb, EDGE, N.C. State
3. Minkah Fitzpatrick, DB, Alabama
4. Quenton Nelson, OG, Notre Dame
5. Sam Darnold, QB, USC
6. Josh Rosen, QB, UCLA
7. Denzel Ward, CB, Ohio State
8. Christian Wilkins, DT, Clemson
9. Roquan Smith, LB, Georgia
10. Connor Williams, OT, Texas -
Ourlads has it this way:
Quarterbacks
1 Josh Rosen UCLA 2 Baker Mayfield Oklahoma 3 Sam Darnold USC 4 Mason Rudolph Oklahoma State 5 Josh Allen Wyoming 6 Luke Falk Washington State 7 Clayton Thorson Northwestern 8 Nick Fitzgerald Mississippi State 9 Jeremiah Briscoe Sam Houston State, UAB 10 Mike White Western Kentucky -
Pro Football Focus has listed their top 3 as:
Mayfield
Jackson
Will Grier of WVu
(though this may just be their number scores from this years)
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DraftGeek only has these in their Top 99:
2 Rosen
10 Darnold
56 Jackson
58 Allen
http://www.nfldraftgeek.com/2018-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings/
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NFL DraftBoard has this:
RankPlayerPositionGrade
1S DarnoldQB4.69
2A KeyDE/OLB5.38
3D JamesFS6.03
4J RosenQB7.06
5M McGlincheyOT10.44
6J AllenQB12.25
7M FitzpatrickCB12.59
8S BarkleyRB12.75
9C WilkinsDT13.50
10C RidleyWR16.32
11T McFaddenCB18.34
12H LandryLB20.30
13M JeffersonLB22.21
14B ChubbDE/OLB23.36
15C WilliamsOT23.76
16C KirkWR23.88
17C SuttonWR25.23
18D GuiceRB25.41
19T LewisDE/OLB27.04
20S HubbardDE/OLB27.04
21Q NelsonC/G28.92
22M HyattOT29.50
23M RudolphQB29.94
24O BrownOT32.48
25L JacksonQB33.20
26J WashingtonWR33.60
27D PayneDT37.63
28M RankinOT37.94
29V VeaDT38.60
30C OkoraforOT39.50
31C SmithLB39.57
32J AlexanderCB40.53
33D HandDE/OLB42.53
34J StidhamQB43.67
35J BrowningQB43.83
36E St BrownWR44.50
37Kc McDermottOT45.00
38A TateWR45.00
39M IveyOT45.36
40J SweatDE/OLB45.42
41R HarrisonFS46.00
42D CainWR47.29
43J WhiteheadFS47.54
44N PatrickLB48.00
45D NnadiDT48.20
46J BakerLB48.22
47T AdamsOT48.25
48L FalkQB48.50
71B RypienQB55.00
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Honestly at this point the only QB I would consider with #1 is Rosen, but he scares the Sheet out of me. I think he has an amazingly high ceiling, but I think he is also the most likely to completely flame out do to his attitude. Can he be coached? When I ask that, I don't necessarily mean during practice or in the film room. I think he can take fundamental coaching and I think he would work his butt off studying film. What I mean is if his coach pulls him to the side on Sunday to talk about a pick or a missed throw, is this guy going to say, "Shmuck that I know more than you." Is he going to be someone who at some point struggles with adversity and decides, "Hey this really isn't fun anymore, lets just milk this for as long as I can." Those are the vibes I get from him based on things that I have read.
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As I see it, Rosen reminds me of another talented qb with arrogance/character concerns.
Jimmy Clausen, drafted by the Bears.
***************************************************
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/363803-2010-nfl-draft-player-profile-jimmy-clausen
"He still has some leadership and character concerns, but overall, Clausen is always in the conversation as possibly being the best prospect in this year's quarterback class. He could still go No. 1 overall."
Strengths
"Clausen is a very fluid and natural passer with over three years of solid experience in a pro-style offense and against solid competition."
"However, the confusion between confidence and arrogance raises the question if he can lead grown men at the next level and obtain his pro team's respect and full backing."
"His true knocks, which are very warranted, are his lazy footwork and his questionable character. Clausen said in a recent interview that he thinks people don't understand him, and while that may be so, the perception of the person he is, still stands."
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As for Rosen the teammate...
This was written going into the 2017 season by an Aggie 247 contributor.
UCLA teammates and coaches rally around QB Josh Rosen
UCLA quarterback Josh Rosen stirs controversy with his public comments but his teammates have a different opinion of him as a teammate and player
- Jeff Tarpley - Aug 28, 5:49 PM
UCLA quarterback Josh Rosen received the nickname "Chosen" from his friends after a Sports Illustrated spread in 2014. However, although Rosen was seemingly "chosen" to be face of UCLA football, it hasn't worked out as planned. As Thuc Nhi Nguyen writes in the Orange County Register:
Rosen was chosen as the face of UCLA for his on-field talent and his off-field intellect. In the process, his greatest gift, his ever-questioning mind, has also become his great curse.
His honest answers stoke Internet media fires. His habit to ask “why” can be seen as challenging or arrogant. He makes more headlines for his words than his play now, especially after his sophomore season was derailed with a shoulder injury.
Rosen's coach, offensive coordinator Jedd Fisch, read things about Rosen that turned out to be less than accurate.
“I’ve learned that he’s extremely hard working,” the well-traveled 40-year-old assistant said. “That he is extremely diligent. That the game is extremely important to him. That his talent level, while special, also has a lot to do with how much he works at it. … I’ve also learned that he can be coached really hard.”
That’s the Rosen the Bruins know. The one who stays after practice to throw extra routes to any receiver who asks. The one who led every player-run practice this summer, 25 in all. The one who buys his offensive linemen dinner every week and orders them personalized gold necklaces with their last names and jersey numbers.
In fact, his teammates defended him after less than flattering articles in various publications.
“I don’t know how people can jump to that conclusion; we all love Josh,” center Scott Quessenberry said. “He comes out every day and he competes hard.”
“A lot of people don’t have that voice but a lot of us are thinking the things he says,” said safety Jaleel Wadood, who also played with Rosen at St. John Bosco. “Some of us don’t say it because they don’t have that platform like he does.”
It's Rosen's last chance to live up to expectations and be the player that his teammates tell people he is. That chance starts on September 3 versus the Aggies.
As for Rosen the teammate...
This was written going into the 2017 season by an Aggie 247 contributor.
UCLA teammates and coaches rally around QB Josh Rosen
UCLA quarterback Josh Rosen stirs controversy with his public comments but his teammates have a different opinion of him as a teammate and player
- Jeff Tarpley - Aug 28, 5:49 PM
UCLA quarterback Josh Rosen received the nickname "Chosen" from his friends after a Sports Illustrated spread in 2014. However, although Rosen was seemingly "chosen" to be face of UCLA football, it hasn't worked out as planned. As Thuc Nhi Nguyen writes in the Orange County Register:
Rosen was chosen as the face of UCLA for his on-field talent and his off-field intellect. In the process, his greatest gift, his ever-questioning mind, has also become his great curse.
His honest answers stoke Internet media fires. His habit to ask “why” can be seen as challenging or arrogant. He makes more headlines for his words than his play now, especially after his sophomore season was derailed with a shoulder injury.
Rosen's coach, offensive coordinator Jedd Fisch, read things about Rosen that turned out to be less than accurate.
“I’ve learned that he’s extremely hard working,” the well-traveled 40-year-old assistant said. “That he is extremely diligent. That the game is extremely important to him. That his talent level, while special, also has a lot to do with how much he works at it. … I’ve also learned that he can be coached really hard.”
That’s the Rosen the Bruins know. The one who stays after practice to throw extra routes to any receiver who asks. The one who led every player-run practice this summer, 25 in all. The one who buys his offensive linemen dinner every week and orders them personalized gold necklaces with their last names and jersey numbers.
In fact, his teammates defended him after less than flattering articles in various publications.
“I don’t know how people can jump to that conclusion; we all love Josh,” center Scott Quessenberry said. “He comes out every day and he competes hard.”
“A lot of people don’t have that voice but a lot of us are thinking the things he says,” said safety Jaleel Wadood, who also played with Rosen at St. John Bosco. “Some of us don’t say it because they don’t have that platform like he does.”
It's Rosen's last chance to live up to expectations and be the player that his teammates tell people he is. That chance starts on September 3 versus the Aggies.
Jeff Tarpley is a clown. Very low character guy. The stories are endless.
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