Positives from the 2017 season?
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Pretty much got it, Gip. Right now Wentz is "bread".... "white bread" if you want to go there.
The "other" stat line I placed above Carson's is Dak's from 2016. A good QB who came into a great situation as a rookie. A QB some Wentzbackers, among others, have pointed out looks pretty ordinary this year absent his LT and RB and a Sean Lee led D. Can't disagree with that, but the telling thing I see between the two stat lines are the 4QC (4th Qtr Comeback) and GWD (Game Winning Drive) figures. While these are from mutually exclusive measures of "clutch", they are macro-ish measures of that quality. I am not saying Wentz lacks it, just that there's no solid evidence he has it at the NFL level.
Not saying he does not turn out to be Prime Filet Mignon... just not there yet. I think he has the opportunity this Sunday in Seattle to show if he is heading up the food chain.
You've raised a pair of good, thread-worthy QB questions. I'll wait for you to crank one up rather than further "derail" this tread....
Oh well...this thread could use a good tangent. After all, it is: What is positive in the 2017 Browns. Which can probably be answered in one foreign word: Nada.
Oh well...this thread could use a good tangent. After all, it is: What is positive in the 2017 Browns. Which can probably be answered in one foreign word: Nada.
So some derails are OK?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Oh well...this thread could use a good tangent. After all, it is: What is positive in the 2017 Browns. Which can probably be answered in one foreign word: Nada.
So some derails are OK?
So some derails are OK?
That depends.....on how good your manners are, and how big your pocketbook is.
(You're a daisy if you can identify that quote)
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That depends.....on how good your manners are, and how big your pocketbook is.
(You're a daisy if you can identify that quote)
That is a quote from: To Wong Foo, Thanks For Everything, Julie Newmar.
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Pretty much got it, Gip. Right now Wentz is "bread".... "white bread" if you want to go there.
The "other" stat line I placed above Carson's is Dak's from 2016. A good QB who came into a great situation as a rookie. A QB some Wentzbackers, among others, have pointed out looks pretty ordinary this year absent his LT and RB and a Sean Lee led D. Can't disagree with that, but the telling thing I see between the two stat lines are the 4QC (4th Qtr Comeback) and GWD (Game Winning Drive) figures. While these are from mutually exclusive measures of "clutch", they are macro-ish measures of that quality. I am not saying Wentz lacks it, just that there's no solid evidence he has it at the NFL level.
Not saying he does not turn out to be Prime Filet Mignon... just not there yet. I think he has the opportunity this Sunday in Seattle to show if he is heading up the food chain.
You've raised a pair of good, thread-worthy QB questions. I'll wait for you to crank one up rather than further "derail" this tread....
Oh well...this thread could use a good tangent. After all, it is: What is positive in the 2017 Browns. Which can probably be answered in one foreign word: Nada.
Oh well...this thread could use a good tangent. After all, it is: What is positive in the 2017 Browns. Which can probably be answered in one foreign word: Nada.
Good seats available for 2018?
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Oh well...this thread could use a good tangent. After all, it is: What is positive in the 2017 Browns. Which can probably be answered in one foreign word: Nada.
So some derails are OK?
So some derails are OK?
Yes Tour the team is totally derailed. Crow can't run, Kizer can't pass, Coleman can't catch, Hue can't coach, best players on offense (Thomas) and defense (Collins) are hurt, we're 0-11. I'm as happy as a pig in mud.
Good seats available for 2018?
Aaaannnndddd... CHEAP!!!!! If there's ever a year we're going to get seat improvement- this is gonna be it.
But why wait? You can get tickets this year to the Ravens game for $6, and move down into the deserted 100 level quickly.The "convenience fee" is probably more than that. FWIW, that was StubHub. Sneaking into the Club level might involve more difficulty- and a distraction. But even those seats are going at a 70% discount. To show you how bad it is- "official" NFL Ticket exchange- until now- wouldn't let you post a ticket at less than face value. They figured out no one in their right mind was gonna pay face value to watch the Browns play like a JV team.
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That depends.....on how good your manners are, and how big your pocketbook is.
(You're a daisy if you can identify that quote)
That is a quote from: To Wong Foo, Thanks For Everything, Julie Newmar.
That is a quote from: To Wong Foo, Thanks For Everything, Julie Newmar.
Not to my knowledge....at least not the one I was looking for.
But that was a very interesting movie, no? Patrick Sweazy and Wesley Snipes in drag
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Ooooo... more numbers... out of context.
The context is that Wentz is a good piece of a very good team. He may yet confirm that he is "franchise" level, but the talk of that now, let alone the MVP talk, is premature.
Most explain away Carson's 2016 numbers, and their roll-off thru the season, as being due to the loss of Lane Johnson, a RT. I think that's fair to a point, although it did not help that the level of their competition increased over the stretch that entailed his 10-game suspension. What is not fair is to ignore the corollary conclusion that he could not even compensate for the loss of one OL, let alone carry a team.
So what about 2017? Well... they upgraded around Carson. They added Jeffries and Torey Smith to their WR corps plusdrafted backups Hollins and Gibson. They added RBs Blount (FA) and recently Ajayi plus Pumphrey in the draft. They deepened their OL adding Wisniewski (old friend of the OL followers here) and Warmack. Any noting this season of an issue with the loss of starting LT, Lane Johnson, to IR?
And then there is the Eagle D... a very good D that added to the DL, Jernigan via trade, drafted Barnett, signed Long for depth. Plus they drafted Douglas to add to a very good 2ndary and stashed the injured Sidney Jones for future use.
Bottom line... this is a loaded team that asks its 2nd-year QB to not lose games rather than win them. And he is doing so in style... no doubt about that, but let's not crown him yet as we did not last year's darling QB. Here's their comparison...
Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD 2016* 23 QB 4 16 16 13-3-0 311 459 67.8 3667 23 5.0 4 0.9 83 8.0 8.6 11.8 229.2 104.9 81.5 25 143 7.28 7.86 5.2 5 5 2017 25 QB 11 11 11 10-1-0 213 354 60.2 2657 28 7.9 5 1.4 72 7.5 8.5 12.5 241.5 104.0 ----- 24 131 6.68 7.57 6.3 1 1 The context is that Wentz is a good piece of a very good team. He may yet confirm that he is "franchise" level, but the talk of that now, let alone the MVP talk, is premature.
Bottom line... this is a loaded team that asks its 2nd-year QB to not lose games rather than win them. And he is doing so in style... no doubt about that, but let's not crown him yet...
Not saying he does not turn out to be Prime Filet Mignon... just not there yet. I think he has the opportunity this Sunday in Seattle to show if he is heading up the food chain.
Anyone want to talk about Carson today?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
The context is that Wentz is a good piece of a very good team. He may yet confirm that he is "franchise" level, but the talk of that now, let alone the MVP talk, is premature.
Bottom line... this is a loaded team that asks its 2nd-year QB to not lose games rather than win them. And he is doing so in style... no doubt about that, but let's not crown him yet...
Not saying he does not turn out to be Prime Filet Mignon... just not there yet. I think he has the opportunity this Sunday in Seattle to show if he is heading up the food chain.
Anyone want to talk about Carson today?
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They are very tough to see with the glaring overall record in the last 2 years but this team does have quite a few positives. Since the team came back in 1999 this is the best building of the Interior on both sides of the ball. Maybe a few years the o line was better but overall both sides trenches are the best I've seen with some young Raw Talent. They just need The Playmakers on both sides of the ball those first two draft picks should be spent on receiver running back guys that can score touchdowns. And on the defensive side of the ball The Playmakers that turned touchdowns in the field goals and turn scoring drives into turnovers.
And DeSean Kizer has been wrongfully beat up this year. McCoy Weeden Manziel fry Quinn Kiser has showed me more maturity and more growth in a short time and worse situation than any of those guys. I mean let's be real he was given less talent and asked to do more than any quarterback in the NFL as a raw rookie. And he seems like he's got the mentality and maturity for the job not in trouble not drama doesn't have a friend that always gets in trouble not partying not drinking not creating controversy. You gave all those other stiffs years to figure it out and you gave this 21 year old kid with all the clubs in the bag 10 games. ridiculous
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What positives??
Kizer sucks, run game is inefficient, too many penalties, DBs can't cover,THIS TEAM IS A DUMPSTER FIRE!!
SHOULDA HAD WENTZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!! -
@ Tour: What you are saying is that, like the old adage, man does not live on bread alone. Good teams do not live on a good QB alone.
There certainly have been some good QBs playing on bad teams...and vice versa.
Curious question: Which teams this year 2017 are being held back by a bad QB?
And are there any actually bad teams that have been greatly enhanced by the presence of a good QB?
Pretty much got it, Gip. Right now Wentz is "bread".... "white bread" if you want to go there.
The "other" stat line I placed above Carson's is Dak's from 2016. A good QB who came into a great situation as a rookie. A QB some Wentzbackers, among others, have pointed out looks pretty ordinary this year absent his LT and RB and a Sean Lee led D. Can't disagree with that, but the telling thing I see between the two stat lines are the 4QC (4th Qtr Comeback) and GWD (Game Winning Drive) figures. While these are from mutually exclusive measures of "clutch", they are macro-ish measures of that quality. I am not saying Wentz lacks it, just that there's no solid evidence he has it at the NFL level.
Not saying he does not turn out to be Prime Filet Mignon... just not there yet. I think he has the opportunity this Sunday in Seattle to show if he is heading up the food chain.
You've raised a pair of good, thread-worthy QB questions. I'll wait for you to crank one up rather than further "derail" this tread....
Not saying he does not turn out to be Prime Filet Mignon... just not there yet. I think he has the opportunity this Sunday in Seattle to show if he is heading up the food chain.
Anyone want to talk about Carson today?
Looking forward to seeing how his fill in does tomorrow... and the next two weeks.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Not saying he does not turn out to be Prime Filet Mignon... just not there yet. I think he has the opportunity this Sunday in Seattle to show if he is heading up the food chain.
Anyone want to talk about Carson today?
Looking forward to seeing how his fill in does tomorrow... and the next two weeks.
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Not saying he does not turn out to be Prime Filet Mignon... just not there yet. I think he has the opportunity this Sunday in Seattle to show if he is heading up the food chain.
Anyone want to talk about Carson today?
Looking forward to seeing how his fill in does tomorrow... and the next two weeks.
Looking forward to seeing how his fill in does tomorrow... and the next two weeks.
Are you implying that Wentz is an average QB who benefits greatly from the system he plays in?
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Are you implying that Wentz is an average QB who benefits greatly from the system he plays in?
m a y b e . . .
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Are you implying that Wentz is an average QB who benefits greatly from the system he plays in?
m a y b e . . .
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Are you implying that Wentz is an average QB who benefits greatly from the system he plays in?
m a y b e . . .
m a y b e . . .
we can all speculate on anything we want. I can speculate tom brady is an average qb without BB. All the analytical guys(Barnwell types) as well as the non-analytical types seem to feel Wentz has been very very good this year and a top 5 qb at least. You're kind of on your own island on this. Well not kind of. I guess there is nothing wrong with having an extremely different viewpoint, but when it also corresponds to a projection one had before actual data was in, well thats a bit suspicious.....
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