Some other rookie qb's stats with Kizer's
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@boo-fagley said:
So, you guys are comfortable with not using a 1st on QB.
Maybe...I will start a new thread on that.
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Kizer needs to call Kosar and hang out with him watching film over the winter.
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Kizer needs to call Kosar and hang out with him watching film over the winter.
Kizer doesn’t need to get drunk.
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Kizer doesn’t need to get drunk.
Before the pitt-Browns game, Kosar was talking about pittsburps offense and defense -
it was excellent stuff. and he has been working on all the slurring, etc, eating right, etc...and he didn't slur one bit.
He's doing really well. and he's still one of the most brilliant qb minds that ever played the game.
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Kizer doesn’t need to get drunk.
Before the pitt-Browns game, Kosar was talking about pittsburps offense and defense -
it was excellent stuff. and he has been working on all the slurring, etc, eating right, etc...and he didn't slur one bit.
He's doing really well. and he's still one of the most brilliant qb minds that ever played the game.
Before the pitt-Browns game, Kosar was talking about pittsburps offense and defense -
it was excellent stuff. and he has been working on all the slurring, etc, eating right, etc...and he didn't slur one bit.
He's doing really well. and he's still one of the most brilliant qb minds that ever played the game.
i agree, would love to get Bernie involved either as QB coach or even better, as Hue's new OC. Would be great to have someone who's passionate about the team as part of the coaching staff, maybe it would inspire those guys to get out and play and actually remember how to catch and tackle.
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If Kizer's only "touch issue" was the accuracy of his corner fade throws, then I'd still be borderline giddy about his chances, but as the season wore on... as the cries about him holding the ball too long waned due to this and other areas of improvement... as he stopped throwing fastballs to every receivers regardless of their distance from him...the deficiency that emerged was his touch in general.
What comes naturally to most of the backyard QBs on this forum, because we can't throw a 30-yd rope, reduces Kizer to awkward. Most of worm-burners he threw in the last six games were the product of aimed passes he tried to take some pace off. He just doesn't have "the feel"... that unconscious, automatic, instantaneous compensation of launch angles for pace... and to me that is shocking for a kid who has played QB as long as he has.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
If Kizer's only "touch issue" was the accuracy of his corner fade throws, then I'd still be borderline giddy about his chances, but as the season wore on... as the cries about him holding the ball too long waned due to this and other areas of improvement... as he stopped throwing fastballs to every receivers regardless of their distance from him...the deficiency that emerged was his touch in general.
What comes naturally to most of the backyard QBs on this forum, because we can't throw a 30-yd rope, reduces Kizer to awkward. Most of worm-burners he threw in the last six games were the product of aimed passes he tried to take some pace off. He just doesn't have "the feel"... that unconscious, automatic, instantaneous compensation of launch angles for pace... and to me that is shocking for a kid who has played QB as long as he has.
If Kizer's only "touch issue" was the accuracy of his corner fade throws, then I'd still be borderline giddy about his chances, but as the season wore on... as the cries about him holding the ball too long waned due to this and other areas of improvement... as he stopped throwing fastballs to every receivers regardless of their distance from him...the deficiency that emerged was his touch in general.
What comes naturally to most of the backyard QBs on this forum, because we can't throw a 30-yd rope, reduces Kizer to awkward. Most of worm-burners he threw in the last six games were the product of aimed passes he tried to take some pace off. He just doesn't have "the feel"... that unconscious, automatic, instantaneous compensation of launch angles for pace... and to me that is shocking for a kid who has played QB as long as he has.
Remember Chuck Knoblach....2d baseman for the Yankees, I believe. He went through a stretch where he could not for the life of him throw the ball from his spot at 2d base over to the first baseman with any accuracy at all.....balls in the dirt, over the 1st baseman's head, too far left....too far right. Nothing. Blake Bortles looked a bit like that the other day.....and Kizer has that in him some. With Knoblach...it was just a mental thing. With Kizer...I just think that is who he is.....completely inaccurate.
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No, I'm not. IMHO, we need to draft a QB #1. I would consider keeping Kizer as basically a 3rd QB to see whether or not he develops.
Mike
In year two Kizer would be an adequate 2nd QB if they can land a current FA or other trade/deal. To draft yet another rookie QB savior #1 may or may not work. I'd rater work on building the team with best available blue chip players with their plethora of picks, a good second round QB might work as a project QB.
All of this and more to be kicked around between now and April 26.
@boo-fagley said:
So, you guys are comfortable with not using a 1st on QB.
Nope, I will have a hissy fit if they don't. I'm pretty sure they will though.
In year two Kizer would be an adequate 2nd QB if they can land a current FA or other trade/deal. To draft yet another rookie QB savior #1 may or may not work. I'd rater work on building the team with best available blue chip players with their plethora of picks, a good second round QB might work as a project QB.
All of this and more to be kicked around between now and April 26.
Yes, and the QB we draft #1 overall will be third on the depth chart. Kizer was a second round project BTW. Too many QBs will go off the board in the first round, we're not shopping the bargain bin this year. Looks like Tour has come around to my way of thinking, way too risky to hope Kizer can develop. You want a project? We take Benkert as the second QB later in the draft.
We haven't drafted a QB high since Tim Couch, it's time to change the trend. The Bengals kept swinging high on busts like Dave Kingler and Akilli Smith, then they hit on Carson Palmer.
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If Kizer's only "touch issue" was the accuracy of his corner fade throws, then I'd still be borderline giddy about his chances, but as the season wore on... as the cries about him holding the ball too long waned due to this and other areas of improvement... as he stopped throwing fastballs to every receivers regardless of their distance from him...the deficiency that emerged was his touch in general.
What comes naturally to most of the backyard QBs on this forum, because we can't throw a 30-yd rope, reduces Kizer to awkward. Most of worm-burners he threw in the last six games were the product of aimed passes he tried to take some pace off. He just doesn't have "the feel"... that unconscious, automatic, instantaneous compensation of launch angles for pace... and to me that is shocking for a kid who has played QB as long as he has.
Remember Chuck Knoblach....2d baseman for the Yankees, I believe. He went through a stretch where he could not for the life of him throw the ball from his spot at 2d base over to the first baseman with any accuracy at all.....balls in the dirt, over the 1st baseman's head, too far left....too far right. Nothing. Blake Bortles looked a bit like that the other day.....and Kizer has that in him some. With Knoblach...it was just a mental thing. With Kizer...I just think that is who he is.....completely inaccurate.
Remember Chuck Knoblach....2d baseman for the Yankees, I believe. He went through a stretch where he could not for the life of him throw the ball from his spot at 2d base over to the first baseman with any accuracy at all.....balls in the dirt, over the 1st baseman's head, too far left....too far right. Nothing. Blake Bortles looked a bit like that the other day.....and Kizer has that in him some. With Knoblach...it was just a mental thing. With Kizer...I just think that is who he is.....completely inaccurate.
Great example that I think you are misapplying...
As I remember it Knoblach's issues arose when he had time to think about the throw such as when a hard ground ball was hit right at him. When he had to react quickly throwing was not an issue. I see Kizer having to think about taking pace off throws that he has not rehearsed such as screens.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Remember Chuck Knoblach....2d baseman for the Yankees, I believe. He went through a stretch where he could not for the life of him throw the ball from his spot at 2d base over to the first baseman with any accuracy at all.....balls in the dirt, over the 1st baseman's head, too far left....too far right. Nothing. Blake Bortles looked a bit like that the other day.....and Kizer has that in him some. With Knoblach...it was just a mental thing. With Kizer...I just think that is who he is.....completely inaccurate.
Great example that I think you are misapplying...
As I remember it Knoblach's issues arose when he had time to think about the throw such as when a hard ground ball was hit right at him. When he had to react quickly throwing was not an issue. I see Kizer having to think about taking pace off throws that he has not rehearsed such as screens.
Great example that I think you are misapplying...
As I remember it Knoblach's issues arose when he had time to think about the throw such as when a hard ground ball was hit right at him. When he had to react quickly throwing was not an issue. I see Kizer having to think about taking pace off throws that he has not rehearsed such as screens.
It is an example of two guys who could not hit the broad sign of a barn door...so there is no misapplication there...whatever the reason for their failures.
And...are you saying that you believe that Kizer never practiced throwing screens? A. I find that completely hard to believe..or B. If true...it is a clue of just what a fuyucked up job Hue has done coaching him.
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Its all about accuracy. Nothing is more important. And I wonder if that is something that you can teach. I think it is either you were born with it or not. I never had a coach, or even a Dad, who ever showed or 'taught' me to throw. But I was just naturally accurate at throwing anything from a football, baseball, or bean bag. Even when I was little I could see that I could throw things more accurate than any of the other kids. I just had a feel for it. And funny thing is, at nearly 70, I still do.
So the point is, take the most accurate kid you can get, then teach him the things that are teachable.
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Its all about accuracy. Nothing is more important. And I wonder if that is something that you can teach. I think it is either you were born with it or not. I never had a coach, or even a Dad, who ever showed or 'taught' me to throw. But I was just naturally accurate at throwing anything from a football, baseball, or bean bag. Even when I was little I could see that I could throw things more accurate than any of the other kids. I just had a feel for it. And funny thing is, at nearly 70, I still do.
So the point is, take the most accurate kid you can get, then teach him the things that are teachable.
Its all about accuracy. Nothing is more important. And I wonder if that is something that you can teach. I think it is either you were born with it or not. I never had a coach, or even a Dad, who ever showed or 'taught' me to throw. But I was just naturally accurate at throwing anything from a football, baseball, or bean bag. Even when I was little I could see that I could throw things more accurate than any of the other kids. I just had a feel for it. And funny thing is, at nearly 70, I still do.
So the point is, take the most accurate kid you can get, then teach him the things that are teachable.
I don't believe that it can be taught. If a guy is inaccurate in college, it doesn't translate well to him suddenly becoming more accurate when the players are bigger and stronger and faster and the windows are closing much quicker. Accuracy in college doesn't guarantee success in the NFL but being inaccurate damn near always equates to a guy being more inaccurate in the NFL.
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Just saw this on "Tailgate 19 with Jim Donvan... and copied it down:
rookie years for some notable starting quarterbacks in the NFL:
RECORD COMP% TOT YDS TD/INT QB RATING
Peyton Manning(22 yrs) 3-13 56.7 3,739 yrds 26/28 71,2
KIZER 0-15 53.6 2894 11/22 60.5
Troy Aikman(23 yrs) 0-11 52.9 1749 9/18 55.7
Andrew Luck(23 yrs) 11.5 54.1 4374 23/18 76.5
Fran Tarkenton(21 yrs) 2-8 56.1 1997 18/17 74.7
John Elway(23 yrs) 4-6 47.5 1663 7/14 54.9
Puts KIzer in more of a different perspective.
Then I went and looked up Terry Bradshaw's rookie year, starting ....
Terry Bradshaw 5-9 38.1 1410 6/24 30.4
I know, surely that td/int ratio is a mistype, right? nope.
http://www.nfl.com/player/terrybradshaw/2510042/careerstats
I remember Bradshaw saying he nearly got booed out of PIttspuke stadium...
The jump to the NFL is tough - a giant step. A giant work ethic is required. Maybe there's hope for Kizer yet?
Just saw this on "Tailgate 19 with Jim Donvan... and copied it down:
rookie years for some notable starting quarterbacks in the NFL:
RECORD COMP% TOT YDS TD/INT QB RATING
Peyton Manning(22 yrs) 3-13 56.7 3,739 yrds 26/28 71,2
KIZER 0-15 53.6 2894 11/22 60.5
Troy Aikman(23 yrs) 0-11 52.9 1749 9/18 55.7
Andrew Luck(23 yrs) 11.5 54.1 4374 23/18 76.5
Fran Tarkenton(21 yrs) 2-8 56.1 1997 18/17 74.7
John Elway(23 yrs) 4-6 47.5 1663 7/14 54.9
Puts KIzer in more of a different perspective.
Then I went and looked up Terry Bradshaw's rookie year, starting ....
Terry Bradshaw 5-9 38.1 1410 6/24 30.4
I know, surely that td/int ratio is a mistype, right? nope.
http://www.nfl.com/player/terrybradshaw/2510042/careerstats
I remember Bradshaw saying he nearly got booed out of PIttspuke stadium...
The jump to the NFL is tough - a giant step. A giant work ethic is required. Maybe there's hope for Kizer yet?
quarterbacks from the 60's and 70's
"You see the Rams are still thinking that they are playing Tony Dorsett" -Jim Brown 1978 -
If Kizer's only "touch issue" was the accuracy of his corner fade throws, then I'd still be borderline giddy about his chances, but as the season wore on... as the cries about him holding the ball too long waned due to this and other areas of improvement... as he stopped throwing fastballs to every receivers regardless of their distance from him...the deficiency that emerged was his touch in general.
What comes naturally to most of the backyard QBs on this forum, because we can't throw a 30-yd rope, reduces Kizer to awkward. Most of worm-burners he threw in the last six games were the product of aimed passes he tried to take some pace off. He just doesn't have "the feel"... that unconscious, automatic, instantaneous compensation of launch angles for pace... and to me that is shocking for a kid who has played QB as long as he has.
What comes naturally to most of the backyard QBs on this forum, because we can't throw a 30-yd rope, reduces Kizer to awkward. Most of worm-burners he threw in the last six games were the product of aimed passes he tried to take some pace off. He just doesn't have "the feel"... that unconscious, automatic, instantaneous compensation of launch angles for pace... and to me that is shocking for a kid who has played QB as long as he has.
I'm surprised you are shocked by this, Derek Anderson and Brandon Weeden were both afflicted by this disease.
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Just saw this on "Tailgate 19 with Jim Donvan... and copied it down:
rookie years for some notable starting quarterbacks in the NFL:
RECORD COMP% TOT YDS TD/INT QB RATING
Peyton Manning(22 yrs) 3-13 56.7 3,739 yrds 26/28 71,2
KIZER 0-15 53.6 2894 11/22 60.5
Troy Aikman(23 yrs) 0-11 52.9 1749 9/18 55.7
Andrew Luck(23 yrs) 11.5 54.1 4374 23/18 76.5
Fran Tarkenton(21 yrs) 2-8 56.1 1997 18/17 74.7
John Elway(23 yrs) 4-6 47.5 1663 7/14 54.9
Puts KIzer in more of a different perspective.
Then I went and looked up Terry Bradshaw's rookie year, starting ....
Terry Bradshaw 5-9 38.1 1410 6/24 30.4
I know, surely that td/int ratio is a mistype, right? nope.
http://www.nfl.com/player/terrybradshaw/2510042/careerstats
I remember Bradshaw saying he nearly got booed out of PIttspuke stadium...
The jump to the NFL is tough - a giant step. A giant work ethic is required. Maybe there's hope for Kizer yet?
quarterbacks from the 60's and 70's
quarterbacks from the 60's and 70's
2 of the 7 listed.
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@boo-fagley said:
So, you guys are comfortable with not using a 1st on QB.
Nope, I will have a hissy fit if they don't. I'm pretty sure they will though.
In year two Kizer would be an adequate 2nd QB if they can land a current FA or other trade/deal. To draft yet another rookie QB savior #1 may or may not work. I'd rater work on building the team with best available blue chip players with their plethora of picks, a good second round QB might work as a project QB.
All of this and more to be kicked around between now and April 26.
Yes, and the QB we draft #1 overall will be third on the depth chart. Kizer was a second round project BTW. Too many QBs will go off the board in the first round, we're not shopping the bargain bin this year. Looks like Tour has come around to my way of thinking, way too risky to hope Kizer can develop. You want a project? We take Benkert as the second QB later in the draft.
We haven't drafted a QB high since Tim Couch, it's time to change the trend. The Bengals kept swinging high on busts like Dave Kingler and Akilli Smith, then they hit on Carson Palmer.
Nope, I will have a hissy fit if they don't. I'm pretty sure they will though.
Yes, and the QB we draft #1 overall will be third on the depth chart. Kizer was a second round project BTW. Too many QBs will go off the board in the first round, we're not shopping the bargain bin this year. Looks like Tour has come around to my way of thinking, way too risky to hope Kizer can develop. You want a project? We take Benkert as the second QB later in the draft.
We haven't drafted a QB high since Tim Couch, it's time to change the trend. The Bengals kept swinging high on busts like Dave Kingler and Akilli Smith, then they hit on Carson Palmer.
True. Plus the boom/bust thing goes on around the league year after year. With the BROWNS are they A. a QB away or B. still need to team build?
After 1-31 I'd say B. Most media thinks the BROWNS will take a QB from the PAC-10 at #1 or maybe #4 but not all.
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Nope, I will have a hissy fit if they don't. I'm pretty sure they will though.
Yes, and the QB we draft #1 overall will be third on the depth chart. Kizer was a second round project BTW. Too many QBs will go off the board in the first round, we're not shopping the bargain bin this year. Looks like Tour has come around to my way of thinking, way too risky to hope Kizer can develop. You want a project? We take Benkert as the second QB later in the draft.
We haven't drafted a QB high since Tim Couch, it's time to change the trend. The Bengals kept swinging high on busts like Dave Kingler and Akilli Smith, then they hit on Carson Palmer.
True. Plus the boom/bust thing goes on around the league year after year. With the BROWNS are they A. a QB away or B. still need to team build?
After 1-31 I'd say B. Most media thinks the BROWNS will take a QB from the PAC-10 at #1 or maybe #4 but not all.
True. Plus the boom/bust thing goes on around the league year after year. With the BROWNS are they A. a QB away or B. still need to team build?
After 1-31 I'd say B. Most media thinks the BROWNS will take a QB from the PAC-10 at #1 or maybe #4 but not all.
Outside of the #1 overall. We have the #4, three picks in the second, and 12 overall. There's your "filling holes". Nah- if we go the "build the team first" route. Here's what happens 2019. We go 6-10, and you can kiss getting the top QB of that draft goodbye, short of selling the ranch to move up. Taking one outside the top 10 this year? We've gone that route too, and it ain't pretty. The cursed #22 Quinn, Weeden, Manziel. Second round Kizer- I'm going Ghoolie- I called him a bust the day we drafted him. Third round- Frye, McCoy, Kessler.
Need anymore convincing the time to go for broke on a QB is April 2018?
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