Elliot Wolfe
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HC only...
They changed GMs a year ago when they replaced Grigson with Chris Ballard who they hired away from KC and Dorsey.
Speaking of Tour- does this mean Grigson is out with the hiring of Wolfe? What's the old saying, too many cooks spoil the broth? We still have DePodesta hanging around too.
Looking at those drafts (playing Jeopardy) I'll take Jordy Nelson and Clay Matthews for $1,000. Still honked we didn't draft Clay- he wanted to play here.
PS Looking it up on Wiki, 2009 was a Brownsian year of multiple trade downs. We dodged a bullet in Sanchez, Alex Mack or Clay in the first round? Clay would still be playing here. Also the year we totally blew the second round with Robiski, Massaquoi, and Veikune. If you want to get really ill, take a look at the guys we passed on that year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_NFL_Draft
Speaking of Tour- does this mean Grigson is out with the hiring of Wolfe? What's the old saying, too many cooks spoil the broth? We still have DePodesta hanging around too.
If you want to get really ill, take a look at the guys we passed on that year.
IIRC Grison is here because of his past relationship with Berry, so I suspect that as long as Berry is here, then Grigson has a shot at staying... although perhaps not in his current role which is not being "a cook". DePo's status is more interesting and likely far better protected.
As for looking back... every year every team passes on multiple players every fan base wails about. I see no sense in doing so, so I don't play that game excepting those occasions when even I had conviction about the worth of a player at the time we passed. Last time that happened was Khalil Mack. Young Clay? Yeah, I wanted him too, but as much for the wrong reasons like family legacy, than the right ones, i.e., actually knowing his worth. I did not work at player evaluations back in 2009.
I never could figure out bringing Grigson here in the first place- IIRC, he was terrible in Indy...
Yes, he was a bad GM, but as in the case of all traditional GMs he once distinguished himself as a talent evaluator. A story not entirely different than Dorsey...
@boo-fagley said:
Gruden and his super bowl ring wanted Wolfe too and youre bitching.
So what that Wolfe did not get the Packers GM job.
First... Gruden? Are you fuc-king kidding me? Gruden? lmao... Give me a minute.... .... .... OK...
Bitching? Hardly. Skeptical? You bet and for pretty good reason. I was sold Ray Farmer. His KC contributions were somehow "divined" and he became the hope around here. And I bought into his soul-crushing prospects... fool me once.
Maybe landing a Packers' "also-ran" is a coup, but what specifically in Wolf's job performance can you point to that says it is?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Speaking of Tour- does this mean Grigson is out with the hiring of Wolfe? What's the old saying, too many cooks spoil the broth? We still have DePodesta hanging around too.
If you want to get really ill, take a look at the guys we passed on that year.
IIRC Grison is here because of his past relationship with Berry, so I suspect that as long as Berry is here, then Grigson has a shot at staying... although perhaps not in his current role which is not being "a cook". DePo's status is more interesting and likely far better protected.
As for looking back... every year every team passes on multiple players every fan base wails about. I see no sense in doing so, so I don't play that game excepting those occasions when even I had conviction about the worth of a player at the time we passed. Last time that happened was Khalil Mack. Young Clay? Yeah, I wanted him too, but as much for the wrong reasons like family legacy, than the right ones, i.e., actually knowing his worth. I did not work at player evaluations back in 2009.
I never could figure out bringing Grigson here in the first place- IIRC, he was terrible in Indy...
Yes, he was a bad GM, but as in the case of all traditional GMs he once distinguished himself as a talent evaluator. A story not entirely different than Dorsey...
@boo-fagley said:
Gruden and his super bowl ring wanted Wolfe too and youre bitching.
So what that Wolfe did not get the Packers GM job.
First... Gruden? Are you fuc-king kidding me? Gruden? lmao... Give me a minute.... .... .... OK...
Bitching? Hardly. Skeptical? You bet and for pretty good reason. I was sold Ray Farmer. His KC contributions were somehow "divined" and he became the hope around here. And I bought into his soul-crushing prospects... fool me once.
Maybe landing a Packers' "also-ran" is a coup, but what specifically in Wolf's job performance can you point to that says it is?
1) IIRC Grison is here because of his past relationship with Berry, so I suspect that as long as Berry is here, then Grigson has a shot at staying... although perhaps not in his current role which is not being "a cook". DePo's status is more interesting and likely far better protected.
2) As for looking back... every year every team passes on multiple players every fan base wails about. I see no sense in doing so, so I don't play that game excepting those occasions when even I had conviction about the worth of a player at the time we passed. Last time that happened was Khalil Mack. Young Clay? Yeah, I wanted him too, but as much for the wrong reasons like family legacy, than the right ones, i.e., actually knowing his worth. I did not work at player evaluations back in 2009.
3) Yes, he was a bad GM, but as in the case of all traditional GMs he once distinguished himself as a talent evaluator. A story not entirely different than Dorsey...
Bitching? Hardly. Skeptical? You bet and for pretty good reason. I was sold Ray Farmer. His KC contributions were somehow "divined" and he became the hope around here. And I bought into his soul-crushing prospects... fool me once.
Maybe landing a Packers' "also-ran" is a coup, but what specifically in Wolf's job performance can you point to that says it is?
1) Grigson is gone. Looks like Huey is bringing in his old pal Zampeze to be QB coach, fortunately not as OC.
2) I play that game more often- because 90% of the time I'm right in my assessments- at least on first round picks. Quinn, Weeden, Manziel for starters. (Most recently Kizer) We would have drafted LaDanian Tomlinson, and wouldn't have had to bother with Willie Green if Larry had been GM. Oh, I've had a few misses, Couch and Haloti Ngata, but we wouldn't have had the level of suckage over the last 20 years either.
3) Grigson sure didn't evaluate Trent Richardson properly.
Your scepticism over Dorsey's talent as a GM is duly noted, maybe I should adopt a wait and see attitude too.... Farmer looked good on paper, but then when some of the behind the scenes things started coming to light (Justin Gilbert) yikes. I still blame Haslam and the Homeless Guy for foisting Manziel on the Browns. Regarding Wolfe, he has more experience evaluating talent in his foot than Sashi had in his entire body.
Regarding Sashi- I'm sure you know all about "The Hatchet Man" in the business world. Top management brings in a guy "to clean house" and then when things are sufficiently cleaned out personnel- wise the hatchet man gets hatcheted. I've seen it happen at least three times in my working career.
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1) IIRC Grison is here because of his past relationship with Berry, so I suspect that as long as Berry is here, then Grigson has a shot at staying... although perhaps not in his current role which is not being "a cook". DePo's status is more interesting and likely far better protected.
2) As for looking back... every year every team passes on multiple players every fan base wails about. I see no sense in doing so, so I don't play that game excepting those occasions when even I had conviction about the worth of a player at the time we passed. Last time that happened was Khalil Mack. Young Clay? Yeah, I wanted him too, but as much for the wrong reasons like family legacy, than the right ones, i.e., actually knowing his worth. I did not work at player evaluations back in 2009.
3) Yes, he was a bad GM, but as in the case of all traditional GMs he once distinguished himself as a talent evaluator. A story not entirely different than Dorsey...
Bitching? Hardly. Skeptical? You bet and for pretty good reason. I was sold Ray Farmer. His KC contributions were somehow "divined" and he became the hope around here. And I bought into his soul-crushing prospects... fool me once.
Maybe landing a Packers' "also-ran" is a coup, but what specifically in Wolf's job performance can you point to that says it is?
1) Grigson is gone. Looks like Huey is bringing in his old pal Zampeze to be QB coach, fortunately not as OC.
2) I play that game more often- because 90% of the time I'm right in my assessments- at least on first round picks. Quinn, Weeden, Manziel for starters. (Most recently Kizer) We would have drafted LaDanian Tomlinson, and wouldn't have had to bother with Willie Green if Larry had been GM. Oh, I've had a few misses, Couch and Haloti Ngata, but we wouldn't have had the level of suckage over the last 20 years either.
3) Grigson sure didn't evaluate Trent Richardson properly.
Your scepticism over Dorsey's talent as a GM is duly noted, maybe I should adopt a wait and see attitude too.... Farmer looked good on paper, but then when some of the behind the scenes things started coming to light (Justin Gilbert) yikes. I still blame Haslam and the Homeless Guy for foisting Manziel on the Browns. Regarding Wolfe, he has more experience evaluating talent in his foot than Sashi had in his entire body.
Regarding Sashi- I'm sure you know all about "The Hatchet Man" in the business world. Top management brings in a guy "to clean house" and then when things are sufficiently cleaned out personnel- wise the hatchet man gets hatcheted. I've seen it happen at least three times in my working career.
1) Grigson is gone.
3) Grigson sure didn't evaluate Trent Richardson properly.
Your scepticism over Dorsey's talent as a GM is duly noted, maybe I should adopt a wait and see attitude too.... Farmer looked good on paper, but then when some of the behind the scenes things started coming to light (Justin Gilbert) yikes. I still blame Haslam and the Homeless Guy for foisting Manziel on the Browns. Regarding Wolfe, he has more experience evaluating talent in his foot than Sashi had in his entire body.
Regarding Sashi- I'm sure you know all about "The Hatchet Man" in the business world. Top management brings in a guy "to clean house" and then when things are sufficiently cleaned out personnel- wise the hatchet man gets hatcheted. I've seen it happen at least three times in my working career.
My ex-Dad-in-Law was a hatchet man for Allied Chemical. I forget how many Plant managers he sent packing. Ultimately one he swung at and missed, rose above him and guess what...
1. Well that was fast.
3. Grigson missed TR; lower stakes, but Dorsey missed Cam Erving. All GMs "miss". If there was "paper" on Farmer, I did not see it... heard about it plenty, but did not see it. And what I heard was success by association not contribution. And one more "one last time"... player evaluation was never Sashi's job.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
1. After draft day the entire media is going to be talking about how we have a top 5 draft class and our new front office knocked it out of the park.
2. Most if not all of our players we drafted with show little to no improvement from the beginning of the season to the end of it. We will argue whether it was the coaching staffs fault or the FO.
3. Coach gets fired and we pick in the top 5 of the next draft.
4. Rinse and repeat.
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1) Grigson is gone.
3) Grigson sure didn't evaluate Trent Richardson properly.
Your scepticism over Dorsey's talent as a GM is duly noted, maybe I should adopt a wait and see attitude too.... Farmer looked good on paper, but then when some of the behind the scenes things started coming to light (Justin Gilbert) yikes. I still blame Haslam and the Homeless Guy for foisting Manziel on the Browns. Regarding Wolfe, he has more experience evaluating talent in his foot than Sashi had in his entire body.
Regarding Sashi- I'm sure you know all about "The Hatchet Man" in the business world. Top management brings in a guy "to clean house" and then when things are sufficiently cleaned out personnel- wise the hatchet man gets hatcheted. I've seen it happen at least three times in my working career.
My ex-Dad-in-Law was a hatchet man for Allied Chemical. I forget how many Plant managers he sent packing. Ultimately one he swung at and missed, rose above him and guess what...
1. Well that was fast.
3. Grigson missed TR; lower stakes, but Dorsey missed Cam Erving. All GMs "miss". If there was "paper" on Farmer, I did not see it... heard about it plenty, but did not see it. And what I heard was success by association not contribution. And one more "one last time"... player evaluation was never Sashi's job.
but Dorsey missed Cam Erving. All GMs "miss". If there was "paper" on Farmer, I did not see it.
feel better.. Dorsey was out in June after draft at KC..Erving was traded in August, so new KC GM Brett Veach was off to a great start
..papers on Farmer? closes thing to paper, was that sweat towel request in his last presser..
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but Dorsey missed Cam Erving. All GMs "miss". If there was "paper" on Farmer, I did not see it.
feel better.. Dorsey was out in June after draft at KC..Erving was traded in August, so new KC GM Brett Veach was off to a great start
..papers on Farmer? closes thing to paper, was that sweat towel request in his last presser..
feel better.. Dorsey was out in June after draft at KC..Erving was traded in August, so new KC GM Brett Veach was off to a great start
..papers on Farmer? closes thing to paper, was that sweat towel request in his last presser..
lol... thanks... that helped a little.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
1) Grigson is gone.
3) Grigson sure didn't evaluate Trent Richardson properly.
Your scepticism over Dorsey's talent as a GM is duly noted, maybe I should adopt a wait and see attitude too.... Farmer looked good on paper, but then when some of the behind the scenes things started coming to light (Justin Gilbert) yikes. I still blame Haslam and the Homeless Guy for foisting Manziel on the Browns. Regarding Wolfe, he has more experience evaluating talent in his foot than Sashi had in his entire body.
Regarding Sashi- I'm sure you know all about "The Hatchet Man" in the business world. Top management brings in a guy "to clean house" and then when things are sufficiently cleaned out personnel- wise the hatchet man gets hatcheted. I've seen it happen at least three times in my working career.
My ex-Dad-in-Law was a hatchet man for Allied Chemical. I forget how many Plant managers he sent packing. Ultimately one he swung at and missed, rose above him and guess what...
1. Well that was fast.
3. Grigson missed TR; lower stakes, but Dorsey missed Cam Erving. All GMs "miss". If there was "paper" on Farmer, I did not see it... heard about it plenty, but did not see it. And what I heard was success by association not contribution. And one more "one last time"... player evaluation was never Sashi's job.
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I'd love to know what the consensus was on Kizer.
Easy... that his chances of developing into an NFL starter were commensurate with a mid-2nd-round pick.
@boo-fagley said:
Wolfe had a job offer from Gruden.
You would rather have Yoo as HC instead of Gruden? Gruden has forgotten more about football than Yoo will ever know.
If Wolfes job performance was that bad then why didnt the Packers get rid of him long before this? Wolfe was asked to stay with the Packers after losing out on GM.
The Browns are assembling a front office from winning/post season franchises and youre sad that Sashi and his pencil pushers got the axe.
Was Gruden going to make Wolf a coach?
Hue vs. Gruden... interesting question. Can I go with neither? If yes, then I do. If no, then I still do. I put Gruden right "up there" in the pantheon of HCs with Rex Ryan.
Not saying Wolf's job performance was bad. Just that it was not good enough to win him the Pack's GM job. Are you saying you have direct knowledge of his player contributions?
The Browns have been assembling FO's from pieces of winning franchises for decades. Whether this one works out better than the attempts to date is TBD. I celebrated our jumping off this merry-go-round. I am sad that Jimmah did not have the stones to see the FO experiment through, but so far the bilk of the assembled "pencil pushers" seem to be faring just fine...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I'd love to know what the consensus was on Kizer.
Easy... that his chances of developing into an NFL starter were commensurate with a mid-2nd-round pick.
@boo-fagley said:
Wolfe had a job offer from Gruden.
You would rather have Yoo as HC instead of Gruden? Gruden has forgotten more about football than Yoo will ever know.
If Wolfes job performance was that bad then why didnt the Packers get rid of him long before this? Wolfe was asked to stay with the Packers after losing out on GM.
The Browns are assembling a front office from winning/post season franchises and youre sad that Sashi and his pencil pushers got the axe.
Was Gruden going to make Wolf a coach?
Hue vs. Gruden... interesting question. Can I go with neither? If yes, then I do. If no, then I still do. I put Gruden right "up there" in the pantheon of HCs with Rex Ryan.
Not saying Wolf's job performance was bad. Just that it was not good enough to win him the Pack's GM job. Are you saying you have direct knowledge of his player contributions?
The Browns have been assembling FO's from pieces of winning franchises for decades. Whether this one works out better than the attempts to date is TBD. I celebrated our jumping off this merry-go-round. I am sad that Jimmah did not have the stones to see the FO experiment through, but so far the bilk of the assembled "pencil pushers" seem to be faring just fine...
Easy... that his chances of developing into an NFL starter were commensurate with a mid-2nd-round pick.
LOL, which we know (regarding Kizer) the odds of a mid second round pick with accuracy issues in college were not good. To go Ghoolie on you- wasted pick.
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@boo-fagley said:
Same old party line.
Winning franchises in the Super Bowl conversation and post season year after year dont shoot in the dark.
Pretty sure you're the GOP'er, if there is one in this running "conversation"...
I do agree on the franchises comment. Just doubt your ability to discern the relative contributions of any FO staff below the level of GM.
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