Are you all so sure Kizer can't be your QB?
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We should still draft a QB #1, if Kizer comes to camp and plays lights out, and all the sudden we might have 2 QBs who can play thats a good thing. I know it took Drew Brees a couple of years and SD still drafted Rivers because Brees didn't start playing well until they drafted Rivers. So draft the QB #1 and if Kizer pans out, its a bonus.
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I think the Browns have to draft a QB at #1. However, I think Kizer has shown flashes here and there. He had a strong start in the season opener against the Steelers, imploded, then made some progress and then imploded the last 2 games, probably trying to do too much to try to drag this team to a win. I think with enough reps he will become more steady. He has shown a good work ethic and durability, and has remarkable maturity for someone so young. I think he'll be decent given a full off season to work with, a good thing for us since the #1 draft pick doesn't have to be thrown in right away. I have a hunch the Browns will get AJ McCarron in the offseason as the veteran presence, starting job will be between him and Kizer but I think Kizer has the higher ceiling (admittedly, McCarron hasn't played in many games so hard to tell, but if he still hasn't beat out Dalton I am not holding my breath on him becoming a franchise QB).
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Kizer can have a spot on the team. He can compete with whomever the Browns draft to replace him. God knows nothing is certain when it comes to the Browns drafting QBs.
I would:
A. Draft a QB high....yes, probably at #1 Who? Who the hell knows.
B. Draft another QB lower.....ala RGIII and Cousins
C. Keep Kizer to compete
D. Bring in a veteran/bridge QB
E. Kessler and Hogan maybe kept on...but merely as camp fodder
Keep EVERY option open when it comes to the QB spot.
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I hope to never see Kizer play again for the Browns. Not even in the pre-season
With injuries and everything else I'd bet money you will see Kizer at some point in 2018.
Browns fans everywhere better get used to the idea that there will be NO franchise quarterbacks on the field in 2018.....on their team.
Again, PLAN B -
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Remember, Billy Football had a game or two of statistically useful play.. so simply citing That Game He Wasn't The Worst doesn't defend Kizer's consistency.
The truth hurts.
Kizer isn't an NFL starter -- and JM isn't for that matter a CFL starter. Is he worthy of a roster spot? Sure! Let the kid call the plays in! But he's no franchise player.
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Don't you remember how bad Aikman and Bradshaw were their first year and until they were surrounded by talented skill players? Wouldn't it be smart to simply draft your first choice at 1, but still let Kizer have a half year or more if necessary surrounded by talent. Still bringing in an experienced older qb to teach both of your young qbs. You then have hopefully 2 young qbs starter and backup on the cheap for 4 years. The older experienced guy to mentor will come cheap since he won't be coming to actually be a starter ..... ie. Maybe a Josh McCown type.
Don't you remember how bad Aikman and Bradshaw were their first year and until they were surrounded by talented skill players? Wouldn't it be smart to simply draft your first choice at 1, but still let Kizer have a half year or more if necessary surrounded by talent. Still bringing in an experienced older qb to teach both of your young qbs. You then have hopefully 2 young qbs starter and backup on the cheap for 4 years. The older experienced guy to mentor will come cheap since he won't be coming to actually be a starter ..... ie. Maybe a Josh McCown type.
Not a bad job of defending your point; but this guy didn't make himself a consensus #1 QB of a draft class like Aikman did. There's some 70s lyrics popularized by England Dan and John Ford Coley that go like this: "It's sad to belong to someone else when the right one comes along."
They're going to keep Kizer here so he'll get more chances. That said, they're also going to try to improve the QB competition here that will will make the position stronger (if we ever get the right guys here)....
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Don't you remember how bad Aikman and Bradshaw were their first year and until they were surrounded by talented skill players? Wouldn't it be smart to simply draft your first choice at 1, but still let Kizer have a half year or more if necessary surrounded by talent. Still bringing in an experienced older qb to teach both of your young qbs. You then have hopefully 2 young qbs starter and backup on the cheap for 4 years. The older experienced guy to mentor will come cheap since he won't be coming to actually be a starter ..... ie. Maybe a Josh McCown type.
Not a bad job of defending your point; but this guy didn't make himself a consensus #1 QB of a draft class like Aikman did. There's some 70s lyrics popularized by England Dan and John Ford Coley that go like this: "It's sad to belong to someone else when the right one comes along."
They're going to keep Kizer here so he'll get more chances. That said, they're also going to try to improve the QB competition here that will will make the position stronger (if we ever get the right guys here)....
Not a bad job of defending your point; but this guy didn't make himself a consensus #1 QB of a draft class like Aikman did. There's some 70s lyrics popularized by England Dan and John Ford Coley that go like this: "It's sad to belong to someone else when the right one comes along."
They're going to keep Kizer here so he'll get more chances. That said, they're also going to try to improve the QB competition here that will will make the position stronger (if we ever get the right guys here)....
Of course, there are some other lyrics that apply to this whole debate:
"There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy, there's just you and me and we just disagree" Dave Mason I believe.
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Don't you remember how bad Aikman and Bradshaw were their first year and until they were surrounded by talented skill players? Wouldn't it be smart to simply draft your first choice at 1, but still let Kizer have a half year or more if necessary surrounded by talent. Still bringing in an experienced older qb to teach both of your young qbs. You then have hopefully 2 young qbs starter and backup on the cheap for 4 years. The older experienced guy to mentor will come cheap since he won't be coming to actually be a starter ..... ie. Maybe a Josh McCown type.
Not a bad job of defending your point; but this guy didn't make himself a consensus #1 QB of a draft class like Aikman did. There's some 70s lyrics popularized by England Dan and John Ford Coley that go like this: "It's sad to belong to someone else when the right one comes along."
They're going to keep Kizer here so he'll get more chances. That said, they're also going to try to improve the QB competition here that will will make the position stronger (if we ever get the right guys here)....
Not a bad job of defending your point; but this guy didn't make himself a consensus #1 QB of a draft class like Aikman did. There's some 70s lyrics popularized by England Dan and John Ford Coley that go like this: "It's sad to belong to someone else when the right one comes along."
They're going to keep Kizer here so he'll get more chances. That said, they're also going to try to improve the QB competition here that will will make the position stronger (if we ever get the right guys here)....
One huge difference Aikman had good talent around him to start in 1989....
Aikman would eventually win three Super Bowl rings with the Cowboys, and led the team to four consecutive NFC championship games - 1992, 1993, 1994 and 1995 seasons, with victories in 1992, 1993, and 1995.
Kizer isn't there now.
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Not a bad job of defending your point; but this guy didn't make himself a consensus #1 QB of a draft class like Aikman did. There's some 70s lyrics popularized by England Dan and John Ford Coley that go like this: "It's sad to belong to someone else when the right one comes along."
They're going to keep Kizer here so he'll get more chances. That said, they're also going to try to improve the QB competition here that will will make the position stronger (if we ever get the right guys here)....
One huge difference Aikman had good talent around him to start in 1989....
Aikman would eventually win three Super Bowl rings with the Cowboys, and led the team to four consecutive NFC championship games - 1992, 1993, 1994 and 1995 seasons, with victories in 1992, 1993, and 1995.
Kizer isn't there now.
One huge difference Aikman had good talent around him to start in 1989....
Aikman would eventually win three Super Bowl rings with the Cowboys, and led the team to four consecutive NFC championship games - 1992, 1993, 1994 and 1995 seasons, with victories in 1992, 1993, and 1995.
Kizer isn't there now.
Thanks for the reply. I disagree that Aikman had good talent around him in 89 and here's why. I think the only BIG name guy there was Michael Irvin - just 1 year after the 3-13 talent pool got a HOF Coach Tom Landry fired. Emmitt Smith and Jay Novacek weren't there yet while future Pro Bowl Lineman like Erik Williams, Larry Allen and Marc Stepnoski had yet to be drafted. FB Moose Johnston was just a rookie so the play makers he was sentenced to were: RB Paul Palmer, WR Derrick Sheppard, WR Kelvin Martin, and TE Steve Folsom. He got 2 concussions just from the Philadelphia Eagles as a rookie QB reminding me he needed way more help than what was there.
Again, Aikman was a consensus #1 QB that was drafted 1st overall while Kizer was polarizing at best prior to joining a 1-15 team here. He was drafted somewhere in the middle of round 2 in a QB draft class that labelled many of its top QB prospects NFL projects. The only thing that closely resembles that Cowboys team and their QB situation is the volume of draft picks they got from a Herschel Walker trade to expedite the emergence out of growing pains (while trades have this team set up for 5 picks in the first 2 rounds). Unfortunately, I don't think this equips Kizer with the same accuracy and football IQ Troy had. I've certainly been wrong before though - especially now with the types of offenses today's QBs in being trained in at the college level.
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Right in a way the triplets weren't together yet and the key to it all on the ground the road graders at OL were forming but they had the right coach and even the organization after all they were "AMERICA'S TEAM" (barf) right?
The meteoric rise from 1989 to Champs in 1992 was in place to happen.
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
Kizer has 0 QB instincts.. Thats the difference between him and the greats like Aikman and of course,, Manning..(Peyton)
Kizer has 0 QB instincts.. Thats the difference between him and the greats like Aikman and of course,, Manning..(Peyton)
Oh no doubt Kizer is not a franchise QB but on this team in 2018 the question is,.........
Are you all so sure Kizer can't be your QB?
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
Right in a way the triplets weren't together yet and the key to it all on the ground the road graders at OL were forming but they had the right coach and even the organization after all they were "AMERICA'S TEAM" (barf) right?
The meteoric rise from 1989 to Champs in 1992 was in place to happen.
Right in a way the triplets weren't together yet and the key to it all on the ground the road graders at OL were forming but they had the right coach and even the organization after all they were "AMERICA'S TEAM" (barf) right?
The meteoric rise from 1989 to Champs in 1992 was in place to happen.
True but Jimmy Johnson's first record in 89 was 1-15 with the task of overhauling talent on both sides of the ball. IF Jimmy J and Jerry J didn't make the Herschel Walker trade expediting the arrival of help - I'm guessing the Troy Aikman story has a few more concussions and growing pains. Another important variable in all this was pegging guys right with draft criteria and egos at the top working together (at least long enough to get it all off the ground).
This off season is a tremendous opportunity for the FO. Regardless of what people think of Sashi's draft choices, Dorsey made it a point to say Sashi set him up good for his first draft here and rightfully so. 5 draft picks in the first 2 rounds can jumper cable us right out of park especially if the people making the choices can tell the difference between a Michael Thomas and a Corey Coleman.
I think we have room to add a pick of the litter at QB especially when #4 overall puts us in position to add a pick of the litter at another position. Then we have 3 picks in round 2 plus a lot of cake to compete for the yes price tags of FA.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
This is something I've been coming around on more and more, but the problem remains that you can't bet the farm on Kizer being the guy. I would really like to know where this year's QBs rank with the past few year's QBs. That make sense? Like, coming out of school, head to head, where do Rosen, Darnold, Allen, and Mayfield rank when compared to...say...Wentz, Goff, Watson, Mahomes, Trubisky, and others? I honestly don't know.
Kizer will get the full advantage of knowing the offensive system, the players, the protections, and a full year of big-boy experience under his belt. That can't be understated, and if the game ever slows down for Kizer and he gets his confidence, I DO think he has what it takes to make it. But even saying all that, we still need to take a QB early because there's no way to know, and we simply HAVE TO throw as many darts against the board as possible until we get it right.
Another question is, do you still take a QB at 1 if we bring in a veteran QB? Obviously it depends on WHO the guy is, but even if it's Alex Smith at 35 years old, I happen to believe it opens up some options. Imagine getting 3 years of "No worry" QB play. Is it guaranteed? Of course not, but QBs that take care of their body can play to 38, perhaps a little longer if they don't get beaten up. In this scenario, Kizer is the backup. That's not too bad in the world of backup qb's, and who knows, maybe Kizer gets significantly better this year?
All I know is, it's going to be nutso come March. We're probably going to draft a QB early, we're probably not getting Alex Smith, and Kizer probably won't end up being a franchise QB. BUT...I wouldn't bet against him either.
Kizer will get the full advantage of knowing the offensive system, the players, the protections, and a full year of big-boy experience under his belt.
We really can't say that without knowing the offensive coordinator situation.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
Right in a way the triplets weren't together yet and the key to it all on the ground the road graders at OL were forming but they had the right coach and even the organization after all they were "AMERICA'S TEAM" (barf) right?
The meteoric rise from 1989 to Champs in 1992 was in place to happen.
True but Jimmy Johnson's first record in 89 was 1-15 with the task of overhauling talent on both sides of the ball. IF Jimmy J and Jerry J didn't make the Herschel Walker trade expediting the arrival of help - I'm guessing the Troy Aikman story has a few more concussions and growing pains. Another important variable in all this was pegging guys right with draft criteria and egos at the top working together (at least long enough to get it all off the ground).
This off season is a tremendous opportunity for the FO. Regardless of what people think of Sashi's draft choices, Dorsey made it a point to say Sashi set him up good for his first draft here and rightfully so. 5 draft picks in the first 2 rounds can jumper cable us right out of park especially if the people making the choices can tell the difference between a Michael Thomas and a Corey Coleman.
I think we have room to add a pick of the litter at QB especially when #4 overall puts us in position to add a pick of the litter at another position. Then we have 3 picks in round 2 plus a lot of cake to compete for the yes price tags of FA.
True but Jimmy Johnson's first record in 89 was 1-15 with the task of overhauling talent on both sides of the ball. IF Jimmy J and Jerry J didn't make the Herschel Walker trade expediting the arrival of help - I'm guessing the Troy Aikman story has a few more concussions and growing pains. Another important variable in all this was pegging guys right with draft criteria and egos at the top working together (at least long enough to get it all off the ground).
Also true one of the most important and biggest dumbazz deals of all time, given the circumstances. Briefly....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker_trade
.......Four games into the 1989 season, Jimmy Johnson, then head coach of the Dallas Cowboys, came up with the idea to trade Walker while on a morning jog with his staff. Johnson felt the Cowboys were so terrible that only a blockbuster trade could help them. He briefly considered trading wide receiver Michael Irvin to the Los Angeles Raiders, but Raiders owner Al Davisessentially talked Johnson out of the trade by saying, "You sure you want to do that? Who is going to catch passes for you?" Johnson felt that Walker was the only remaining bargaining chip they had.
A number of teams contacted the Cowboys when they announced that they would trade Walker. The New York Giants expressed interest, but the trade would have been unfavorable for Dallas since both teams were in the NFC East division. The Atlanta Falcons entered into negotiations, but eventually pulled out over fear of Walker's future contract demands. The most serious offer came from the Cleveland Browns.
Johnson stated, "[The Browns] offered us a player, a couple of future number one draft picks and three number two draft picks." The Cowboys felt this was a favorable offer, but they also felt that if another team were to enter the discussion, then they could generate a bidding war and thereby get even more compensation. Jimmy Johnson and team owner Jerry Jones decided to contact other clubs to generate buzz and create leverage. Johnson contacted Minnesota Vikings General Manager Mike Lynn. Johnson told Lynn that he was going to trade Walker to Cleveland that afternoon, and that if Minnesota would like to trade for Walker, then it would cost them "players, draft picks, conditional picks, and provisions", giving Lynn a deadline of 6:30 p.m. Lynn, feeling Walker was the missing piece to a Super Bowl run, faxed Johnson that he was interested, and soon after negotiations ensued. In order to get Walker to agree to a trade, the Cowboys paid him a $1.25 million "exit bonus"......
...... (could the BROWNS do this today, so you want to be a dealer?)
- Players/Draft Picks Received by the Minnesota Vikings
- RB Herschel Walker
- Dallas's 3rd round pick – 1990 (54) (Mike Jones)
- Dallas's 5th round pick – 1990 (116) (Reggie Thornton)
- Dallas's 10th round pick – 1990 (249) (Pat Newman)
- Dallas's 3rd round pick – 1991 (68) (Jake Reed)
- Players/Draft Picks Received by the Dallas Cowboys
- LB Jesse Solomon
- LB David Howard
- CB Issiac Holt
- RB Darrin Nelson (traded to San Diego after he refused to report to Dallas)
- DE Alex Stewart
- Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1990 (21) (traded this pick along with pick (81) for pick (17) from Pittsburgh to draft Emmitt Smith)
- Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1990 (47) (Alexander Wright)
- Minnesota's 6th round pick in 1990 (158) (traded to New Orleans, who drafted James Williams)
- Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1991 (conditional on cutting Solomon) – (12) (Alvin Harper)
- Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1991 (conditional on cutting Howard) – (38) (Dixon Edwards)
- Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1992 (conditional on cutting Holt) – (37) (Darren Woodson)
- Minnesota's 3rd round pick in 1992 (conditional on cutting Nelson) – (71) (traded to New England, who drafted Kevin Turner)
- Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1993 (conditional on cutting Stewart) – (13) (traded to Philadelphia Eagles, and then to the Houston Oilers, who drafted Brad Hopkins)
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The Vikings had assumed that they got the better end of the deal, but not knowing at the time, Head Coach Jimmy Johnson was interested only in the draft choices and not the players (although cornerback Issiac Holt remained on the team through Super Bowl XXVII). Dallas ended up with a total of six of Minnesota's picks over the succeeding years, two 1st round and one 2nd round picks were used to draft Emmitt Smith and Darren Woodson, winning multiple Super Bowls and being voted on to go to the Pro Bowl numerous times. Jimmy Johnson used the other draft picks to make trades with other teams around the NFL. One of the trades led to obtaining the first overall draft pick in 1991, which was used to draft Russell Maryland. In other words, the trade of Walker to the Vikings contributed largely to the Cowboys' success in the early 1990s. For this reason, ESPN.com lists it as the 8th most lopsided trade in sports history.[4] 17 years later, the trade was still an easy target for satire: one ESPN columnist, assessing the impact of free agency on the NFL, noted that it had almost entirely replaced significant trades and by doing so "took away one of the greatest shortcuts to becoming a Super Bowl champion: fleecing the Vikings."[5]
The trade was detailed in an ESPN 30 for 30 film, The Great Trade Robbery.
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In thinking about the Dallas train robbery deal what blue chip players do the BROWNS have now?
ANSWER: None? Better keep building guys! There are some good players in this draft.
GO BROWNS 2019!
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND!
( and it burns,burns,burns..that ring of fire..that ring of fire)
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