Josh Allen mechanics are very good.
-
Jesus Christ, you’re scraping the bottom of the Shmucking barrel here aren’t you
Jesus Christ, you’re scraping the bottom of the Shmucking barrel here aren’t you
Explain.
-
Josh Allen outshines Baker Mayfield in first Senior Bowl practice
Author: Mike KlisPublished: 7:48 AM MST January 24, 2018They had tackles and guards and safeties and linebackers.
And the Senior Bowl had two quarterbacks named Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield.
In that order, by the way.
No one has been a bigger supporter of Baker Mayfield than I have. But then I watched Allen throw a howitzer to Penn State receiver DaeSean Hamilton on a deep out pattern Tuesday during the Senior Bowl North team practice at Ladd Peebles Stadium. Allen’s pass exploded out of his hand. It was one of those Andres Galarraga line drives where about halfway on its path, the ball rose to another level and hummed.
Hamilton was pretty well covered on the play, too. The cornerback had no chance.
And then on his next pass, Allen had Hamilton again on a crossing route. Overthrew by a couple yards.
“It went OK,’’ Allen told 9NEWS as he walked off the Ladd Peebles Stadium artificial surface following practice Tuesday. “Could have gone a little better but it was the first day. It’s definitely different, kind of difficult to process the speed of different receivers you’ve never thrown to before. We’ll be better tomorrow.’’
With John Elway and Dan Marino watching practice from the sideline Tuesday, Allen looked like the best quarterback from a Senior Bowl North team that also included Mayfield, Nebraska’s Tanner Lee and Washington State’s Luke Falk.
I talked to one NFL offensive coach who’s had decent success in the league and attended the Senior Bowl practices Tuesday. He said he’d take Allen ahead of Baker in the upcoming draft.
Go with the bigger guy, he said. He speaks for the majority of NFL talent evaluators.
Two of the top quarterbacks, Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen, weren’t eligible for the Senior Bowl because they entered the draft before their senior seasons. Allen may well be the Cleveland Browns No.1 overall pick, anyhow.
“It’s a tough situation to come in as a rookie and expect to be perfect right away,’’ Allen said earlier Tuesday during the Senior Bowl media session. “I know I have a lot of flaws as a quarterback.’’
He has an arm, he’s athletic, he’s big and he has a winning personality and smarts. His biggest flaw his accuracy. He was a two-year starter at Wyoming and completed only 56 percent of his passes each season.
“I’ve been working on that,’’ Allen said. “Obviously, 56 percent is not anywhere close where it needs to be. You can go and look at the tape and I’d say I’ve made a lot of strides from the previous season. I held the ball more, didn’t throw as many interceptions. I held on to the ball, threw the ball away more. Just more careful with the football. There’s always the constant battle with trying to perfect your game.That’s what I’m dealing with right now and making sure my stroke is consistent and clean.’’
He and Darnold are housemates this offseason, working with quarterbacks coach Jordan Palmer.
Allen was plenty accurate in the first quarter of the Potato Bowl last month, throwing three touchdown passes against Central Michigan with Elway and Matt Russell, the Broncos’ director of player personnel, attending the game specifically to scout him.
“It was really cool,’’ Allen said. “You try to not treat it as a distraction when you look over to the sideline and see a guy like John Elway, it’s hard to not get excited. I just went out there and played football with my guys. It was fun.’’
And then on his next pass, Allen had Hamilton again on a crossing route. Overthrew by a couple yards.
And there it is... the inconsistency. Mayock labelled it as the question Allen has to answer this week along with... leadership.... or at least the aspect around inspiring a team and drawing them to him.
On the former Mayock laid the blame literally at Allen's feet. I'm not sure it's that simple.
On the latter Savage and the organizing committee did Allen no favors by putting him in the same QB group with Mayfield, who players are likely to gravitate towards.
Overall I thought Mayfield was actually impressive. In part due to the fact that he showed up in Mobile an hour before the North took the field. He did not have the benefit of a day of classroom prep the other QBs had... and it did not show. The Bronco staff had emailed Baker the playbook and he'd clearly studied and absorbed it before he arrived.
Otherwise on the field Mayfield did start slow. I thought Mayock summed it up well in saying that at the outset it seemed he was trying to match Allen's velocity. Then Baker settled down, played his game and separated himself from every other QB on Day One.
That's how I saw it as well.
But today is Day Two... we shall see.
-
If Allen is more of a project, etc, so be it. The Browns will know. If Allen doesn't do well in the senior bowl, that's going to clinch it.
But if the lights go on on his accuracy in the next few days and the game, then the choice will be agonizing for some.
I don't see Mayfield's red flags to be a big deal...necessarily - don't seem to be a trend in his life. He is a playmaker. and comparing him to jm, is just really bogus.
Mayfield certain has enough arm, and bigtime love for the game, leadership, etc. This draft is going to be crazy.
-
I understand. However, the inaccuracy - is that a result of a serious lack of athleticism/coordination? Or, a lack of development, and can be professionally coached? I agree that a qb that is inaccurate in college because of a lack of athleticism will be inaccurate in the pros, sure.
Maybe it is a result of him just being bad at that skill.....the most important skill of being an NFL QB. So, maybe it is the result of him being not good.
I just wonder if a guy who could be an outstanding athlete , which Allen is, could develop into a world class pro qb.
Maybe we should draft Usain Bolt, or Michael Phelps to be our QB....if all you want is an outstanding athlete.
Take this guy:
"
Weaknesses
Benefits from an offense that is predicated on simplified reads. Offense able to create wide-open receivers after busted coverages at times. Needs to improve resetting feet when maneuvering pocket to improve accuracy and power. Tends to "see" pass rush too often. Will drop eyes and look to escape pocket rather than stepping to available pocket space. Frequent trips outside pocket increase opportunity for injury. Pocket feel is very average. Stepped into sacks he had no business taking. Didn't have to throw to tight windows often. Average processor on field. Still learning when to get rid of the ball and move to next play. Slow to make anticipatory throws and can improve patience in allowing combo routes to mature rather than rushing the read. Missed obvious pre-snap blitzes. Drive accuracy needs work. When cutting it loose, ball tends to sail on him a bit. Arm strength is adequate but inconsistent to field side. Needs to bring hips through throws to increase zip into tight windows in NFL. Fumbled 27 times during his career. "
How high should that qb go in the draft? Sounds less a qb than Allen? His top wr, Josh Huff was drafted in the third round by the Eagles. His rb was drafted in the fourth round. He had a conference star center...quite a good cast around him. His accuracy was 61 % overall regular season, 60.x % in playoffs in college.
Allen plays in a pro style offense, doesn't lend itself to stats, and his percentage is a bit low, but he is more a prospect than the guy above, I think. It's Mariotta, out of Oregon. He was picked second overall. Josh Allen is a better pick.
Maybe it is a result of him just being bad at that skill.....the most important skill of being an NFL QB. So, maybe it is the result of him being not good.
Accuracy is not a "skill". It's an output of a combination of skills.
a few you have cherry picked Allen's worst three games. See, that is where the hell I got the idea.
Nice try... except that pulling his stats vs. Power 5 schools is not "cherry-picking"... it's a natural subset.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Accuracy is kind of important for a QB is it not? Since you say a coach should be able to teach it, show us one example of a mid 50% passer in college who became more accurate in the NFL.
I'm willing to bet it's never happened.
no idea. Long term habits aren't easy to break, I'm sure. But read the excerpt about Mariotta I posted earlier. He had a problem with accuracy, too. That's a question - is it forever, or does a qb just adapt to more accurate throwing, given the athletic ability to do so?
no idea. Long term habits aren't easy to break, I'm sure. But read the excerpt about Mariotta I posted earlier. He had a problem with accuracy, too. That's a question - is it forever, or does a qb just adapt to more accurate throwing, given the athletic ability to do so?
Also not sure where your Mariota discussion comes from. Mariota's completion percentages at Oregon were 68.5, 63.5 and 68.3%. And in the NFL he's a low 60's QB...
Where does a college guy in the 50's end up?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Just say no to another inaccurate QB.
I understand. However, the inaccuracy - is that a result of a serious lack of athleticism/coordination? Or, a lack of development, and can be professionally coached? I agree that a qb that is inaccurate in college because of a lack of athleticism will be inaccurate in the pros, sure.
I just wonder if a guy who could be an outstanding athlete , which Allen is, could develop into a world class pro qb.
Take this guy:
"
Weaknesses
Benefits from an offense that is predicated on simplified reads. Offense able to create wide-open receivers after busted coverages at times. Needs to improve resetting feet when maneuvering pocket to improve accuracy and power. Tends to "see" pass rush too often. Will drop eyes and look to escape pocket rather than stepping to available pocket space. Frequent trips outside pocket increase opportunity for injury. Pocket feel is very average. Stepped into sacks he had no business taking. Didn't have to throw to tight windows often. Average processor on field. Still learning when to get rid of the ball and move to next play. Slow to make anticipatory throws and can improve patience in allowing combo routes to mature rather than rushing the read. Missed obvious pre-snap blitzes. Drive accuracy needs work. When cutting it loose, ball tends to sail on him a bit. Arm strength is adequate but inconsistent to field side. Needs to bring hips through throws to increase zip into tight windows in NFL. Fumbled 27 times during his career. "
How high should that qb go in the draft? Sounds less a qb than Allen? His top wr, Josh Huff was drafted in the third round by the Eagles. His rb was drafted in the fourth round. He had a conference star center...quite a good cast around him. His accuracy was 61 % overall regular season, 60.x % in playoffs in college.
Allen plays in a pro style offense, doesn't lend itself to stats, and his percentage is a bit low, but he is more a prospect than the guy above, I think. It's Mariotta, out of Oregon. He was picked second overall. Josh Allen is a better pick.
I understand. However, the inaccuracy - is that a result of a serious lack of athleticism/coordination? Or, a lack of development, and can be professionally coached? I agree that a qb that is inaccurate in college because of a lack of athleticism will be inaccurate in the pros, sure.
I just wonder if a guy who could be an outstanding athlete , which Allen is, could develop
Cal, don't let media reports or hype tapes cover your own eyes. Many read Allen comes from a pro style under center school with the same Wentz Body. Yes Josh has a cannon, but continue watching Allen's delivery..nothing has changed, His feet, hips & eyes are a mess in his delivery. Messing with his release point thinking his "gun speed" can catch-it-up. Count how many of Josh's misses go HIGH, or over thrown on touch passes.. Elway could hire John Denver to sing Rocky Mountain High,Than Styx for some "Come Sail Away with me" at halftime..long way till draft day remain, but short days of real football remain..At #1 or #4 Dorsey's grabbing a QB..I gave it a re-try.. but at this point am passing the hype train of Josh Allen growing into a large downhill snowball by Combine..
-
There isn't a Wentz in this draft - except Allen is a bit close outside of the accuracy part. A pro qb coach should be able to teach consistent accuracy. There are other qb's with serious flaws that you can't teach to correct.
Accuracy is kind of important for a QB is it not? Since you say a coach should be able to teach it, show us one example of a mid 50% passer in college who became more accurate in the NFL.
I'm willing to bet it's never happened.
Accuracy is kind of important for a QB is it not? Since you say a coach should be able to teach it, show us one example of a mid 50% passer in college who became more accurate in the NFL.
I'm willing to bet it's never happened.
Brett Favre (52%) and Matt Ryan (56%)
But those are exceptions to the rule
-
Maybe it is a result of him just being bad at that skill.....the most important skill of being an NFL QB. So, maybe it is the result of him being not good.
Accuracy is not a "skill". It's an output of a combination of skills.
a few you have cherry picked Allen's worst three games. See, that is where the hell I got the idea.
Nice try... except that pulling his stats vs. Power 5 schools is not "cherry-picking"... it's a natural subset.
Accuracy is not a "skill". It's an output of a combination of skills.
Whatever....let's call it a trait. Point is...an NFL QB has to be accurate....and apparently this kid ain't. But, as we know from the example of Cody Kessler...just being accurate is also not all there is.
Nice try... except that pulling his stats vs. Power 5 schools is not "cherry-picking"... it's a natural subset.
One other aspect of this is: Apparently the kid was not seen by college recruiters to be all that and a bag of chips. Why wasn't he recruited to attend a P5 school.
-
Accuracy is kind of important for a QB is it not? Since you say a coach should be able to teach it, show us one example of a mid 50% passer in college who became more accurate in the NFL.
I'm willing to bet it's never happened.
Brett Favre (52%) and Matt Ryan (56%)
But those are exceptions to the rule
Brett Favre (52%) and Matt Ryan (56%)
But those are exceptions to the rule
Matt Ryan was 60% at BC. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/matt-ryan-1.html
And then there was Brett...
-
no idea. Long term habits aren't easy to break, I'm sure. But read the excerpt about Mariotta I posted earlier. He had a problem with accuracy, too. That's a question - is it forever, or does a qb just adapt to more accurate throwing, given the athletic ability to do so?
Also not sure where your Mariota discussion comes from. Mariota's completion percentages at Oregon were 68.5, 63.5 and 68.3%. And in the NFL he's a low 60's QB...
Where does a college guy in the 50's end up?
-
Every reputable report out there is that Allen is struggling with accuracy in simple scrimmage throws over and over again. As was noted, accuracy is something that rarely if ever gets better.
We literally sat through an entire season of a strong-armed, tall QB who never learned to throw the ball accurately. How anyone can want to do that again, yet alone with a high first round pick, is unbelievable.
That is only partly true. The first two I read were saying he was throwing several throws very accurately. He isn't consistent in that regard. If he can correct that, you have a star NFL qb in the making.
That is only partly true. The first two I read were saying he was throwing several throws very accurately. He isn't consistent in that regard. If he can correct that, you have a star NFL qb in the making.
Cal, you are now being selectively blind about Allen. You've dug in your heels despite a growing pile of evidence. In another thread- I mentioned to Tour my current draft pecking order is subject to revision. I might even change my mind about Allen- though that's highly doubtful at this point. You can't just say a couple great throws without looking at bad passes that are 5'-10' over a receivers head- and that with no pass rush to speak of. Heck, no QB throws a perfect ball every time, not even an extremely accurate guy like Baker. It's the ratio of accurate to inaccurate that separates the great qbs from the lousy ones. A rocket arm is nice to have, but it's only a part of the equation. In the AFC Championship game I saw Brady loft up a few Kessler-esque floaters, but they were right where only his receiver had a play on the ball.
If, if, if. History says the odds of that happening are against Allen. Them's the cold hard facts Jack. Certainly not worth the risk of using a top 5 draft pick to find out. I've said it before- IF Allen had Mayfield's accuracy- we wouldn't be having this discussion. And IF Mayfield was 6'4" we wouldn't be having it either.
As me and Mark have said- we already have Allen on the roster, his name is Deshone Kizer- so what in the hell do you see in Allen that's so different from Deshone? MHO is you can't correct a lifetime of mechanical sloppiness (paraphrasing Mike Mayrock) in the 90 or so days before the draft.
-
no idea. Long term habits aren't easy to break, I'm sure. But read the excerpt about Mariotta I posted earlier. He had a problem with accuracy, too. That's a question - is it forever, or does a qb just adapt to more accurate throwing, given the athletic ability to do so?
Also not sure where your Mariota discussion comes from. Mariota's completion percentages at Oregon were 68.5, 63.5 and 68.3%. And in the NFL he's a low 60's QB...
Where does a college guy in the 50's end up?
Also not sure where your Mariota discussion comes from. Mariota's completion percentages at Oregon were 68.5, 63.5 and 68.3%. And in the NFL he's a low 60's QB...
Where does a college guy in the 50's end up?
In the NFL? On the bench as a backup, or out of the league in a year or two....
-
no idea. Long term habits aren't easy to break, I'm sure. But read the excerpt about Mariotta I posted earlier. He had a problem with accuracy, too. That's a question - is it forever, or does a qb just adapt to more accurate throwing, given the athletic ability to do so?
Also not sure where your Mariota discussion comes from. Mariota's completion percentages at Oregon were 68.5, 63.5 and 68.3%. And in the NFL he's a low 60's QB...
Where does a college guy in the 50's end up?
Also not sure where your Mariota discussion comes from. Mariota's completion percentages at Oregon were 68.5, 63.5 and 68.3%. And in the NFL he's a low 60's QB...
Where does a college guy in the 50's end up?
He made up Mariota's numbers to fit his argument.
Where does a college guy in the 50's end up? Out of the league in a few short years.
-
no idea. Long term habits aren't easy to break, I'm sure. But read the excerpt about Mariotta I posted earlier. He had a problem with accuracy, too. That's a question - is it forever, or does a qb just adapt to more accurate throwing, given the athletic ability to do so?
Also not sure where your Mariota discussion comes from. Mariota's completion percentages at Oregon were 68.5, 63.5 and 68.3%. And in the NFL he's a low 60's QB...
Where does a college guy in the 50's end up?
Also not sure where your Mariota discussion comes from. Mariota's completion percentages at Oregon were 68.5, 63.5 and 68.3%. And in the NFL he's a low 60's QB...
Where does a college guy in the 50's end up?
read the exerpt from the mariota draft profile I posted. I didn't write it.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/marcus-mariota?id=2552466
Do you know that Jeff Lockie, the back up qb had 75 percent completion rate?
seriously.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/oregon/2014.html
It's their offense that lends itself to high completion numbers.
-
As me and Mark have said- we already have Allen on the roster, his name is Deshone Kizer- so what in the hell do you see in Allen that's so different from Deshone? hoorta
********************************************
Baloney. Kizer was benched at ND while trying to run a non-pro style offense.
Allen was a huge success with far, far, far less talent around him than Kizer had.
Allen is just as much a hero at Wyoming as Wentz was at North Dakota. Wentz was far more polished, ya.
You just love you some rosen because he fits your politics, and you can't let go of that.
-
As me and Mark have said- we already have Allen on the roster, his name is Deshone Kizer- so what in the hell do you see in Allen that's so different from Deshone? hoorta
********************************************
Baloney. Kizer was benched at ND while trying to run a non-pro style offense.
Allen was a huge success with far, far, far less talent around him than Kizer had.
Allen is just as much a hero at Wyoming as Wentz was at North Dakota. Wentz was far more polished, ya.
You just love you some rosen because he fits your politics, and you can't let go of that.
As me and Mark have said- we already have Allen on the roster, his name is Deshone Kizer- so what in the hell do you see in Allen that's so different from Deshone? hoorta
********************************************
1) Baloney. Kizer was benched at ND while trying to run a non-pro style offense.
2) Allen was a huge success with far, far, far less talent around him than Kizer had.
3) Allen is just as much a hero at Wyoming as Wentz was at North Dakota. Wentz was far more polished, ya.
4) You just love you some rosen because he fits your politics, and you can't let go of that.
1) I'll grant you that one- but Kelly had potentially better options at QB. Wyoming's backup was? Kizer got a scholarship at a top FBS School out of the gate, Allen was a JUCO transfer. So tell me Cal, if running a pro style offense matters that much to NFL talent evaluators, How many of the current top 10 QB prospects ran one? Allen and? Nobody? Hmmmmm?
2) Honorable Mention Mountain West- damn impressive. NOT. It's apples to apples Cal. If Allen was playing with inferior talent- he was playing against inferior talent most of the time too. He should have had absolutely dominating stats- and he didn't.
3) Sure- Josh is a hero in Wyoming, because NFL level talent shows up at Laramie once in a blue moon. Ohio State or Alabama churn out more top NFL talent in one year than Wyoming does in 20 or 30.
4) Where did you ever get that silly idea? Get it through your thick head- I currently have Rosen third on my board (injury concerns), ahead of Allen sure- because talent Trumps (pun intended) attitude. Politics has nothing to do with my opinion of Rosen- but it just might color yours. Need to see my RNC card (loyal member since 2002), goober? I'll try to leave politics out of this Cal- but you're living in some alternate reality if you don't think there's legions of hard core Republicans who think Trump is a complete a-hole.
-
Also not sure where your Mariota discussion comes from. Mariota's completion percentages at Oregon were 68.5, 63.5 and 68.3%. And in the NFL he's a low 60's QB...
Where does a college guy in the 50's end up?
read the exerpt from the mariota draft profile I posted. I didn't write it.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/marcus-mariota?id=2552466
Do you know that Jeff Lockie, the back up qb had 75 percent completion rate?
seriously.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/oregon/2014.html
It's their offense that lends itself to high completion numbers.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/marcus-mariota?id=2552466
Do you know that Jeff Lockie, the back up qb had 75 percent completion rate? seriously.
Nice try- on 28 passing attempts- Landry Jones completed 82% of his passes for the Steelers last year too. On the same number of attempts. Small sample size skews results. You throw one pass for a touchdown, you get a perfect QBR.
-
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/marcus-mariota?id=2552466
Do you know that Jeff Lockie, the back up qb had 75 percent completion rate? seriously.
Nice try- on 28 passing attempts- Landry Jones completed 82% of his passes for the Steelers last year too. On the same number of attempts. Small sample size skews results. You throw one pass for a touchdown, you get a perfect QBR.
-
As me and Mark have said- we already have Allen on the roster, his name is Deshone Kizer- so what in the hell do you see in Allen that's so different from Deshone? hoorta
********************************************
1) Baloney. Kizer was benched at ND while trying to run a non-pro style offense.
2) Allen was a huge success with far, far, far less talent around him than Kizer had.
3) Allen is just as much a hero at Wyoming as Wentz was at North Dakota. Wentz was far more polished, ya.
4) You just love you some rosen because he fits your politics, and you can't let go of that.
1) I'll grant you that one- but Kelly had potentially better options at QB. Wyoming's backup was? Kizer got a scholarship at a top FBS School out of the gate, Allen was a JUCO transfer. So tell me Cal, if running a pro style offense matters that much to NFL talent evaluators, How many of the current top 10 QB prospects ran one? Allen and? Nobody? Hmmmmm?
2) Honorable Mention Mountain West- damn impressive. NOT. It's apples to apples Cal. If Allen was playing with inferior talent- he was playing against inferior talent most of the time too. He should have had absolutely dominating stats- and he didn't.
3) Sure- Josh is a hero in Wyoming, because NFL level talent shows up at Laramie once in a blue moon. Ohio State or Alabama churn out more top NFL talent in one year than Wyoming does in 20 or 30.
4) Where did you ever get that silly idea? Get it through your thick head- I currently have Rosen third on my board (injury concerns), ahead of Allen sure- because talent Trumps (pun intended) attitude. Politics has nothing to do with my opinion of Rosen- but it just might color yours. Need to see my RNC card (loyal member since 2002), goober? I'll try to leave politics out of this Cal- but you're living in some alternate reality if you don't think there's legions of hard core Republicans who think Trump is a complete a-hole.
-
If Kizer can correct his accuracy problems, he's bound for Canton.
What's that? He can't? I, for one, am shocked.
Let's repeat the process with a QB who found a way to be less accurate than Kizer in college! [Kizer 59% as a senior, 63% as a junior]
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login