Cousins would "seriously consider" the Browns
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Agree Larry. Bottom line is, and so well stated by you, that we do not dislike Cousins, but we feel there are better options. Of course, I have highlighted what I felt were your best statements. Kudos to you for very well stated points.
Mike
I was listening to a Jets fan caller on Sirius NFL talking about Cousins. He was hoping they didn't sign him. The hosts were shocked at his lack of appreciation for Cousins. Right in line with my comments they mentioned bird in hand vs draft pick and 4200+ yards per year 30 TD's and a 2/1 or better TD / INT ratio on a mediocre team at best. I respect everyone's opinion but mine is the Browns need to pay as necessary to make this happen. With him , our existing talent ( mostly Gordon and Duke) the draft and free agency we are instant contenders for a championship. We need to focus enough on offense to end up with something like Cousins, Gordon, Jarvis Landry , Saquon Barkley , Duke and Njoku. Haley would pop a boner on that for sure.
I was listening to a Jets fan caller on Sirius NFL talking about Cousins. He was hoping they didn't sign him. The hosts were shocked at his lack of appreciation for Cousins. Right in line with my comments they mentioned bird in hand vs draft pick and 4200+ yards per year 30 TD's and a 2/1 or better TD / INT ratio on a mediocre team at best. I respect everyone's opinion but mine is the Browns need to pay as necessary to make this happen. With him , our existing talent ( mostly Gordon and Duke) the draft and free agency we are instant contenders for a championship. We need to focus enough on offense to end up with something like Cousins, Gordon, Jarvis Landry , Saquon Barkley , Duke and Njoku. Haley would pop a boner on that for sure.
This is where Ghoolie would blast you for a comment like that- I won't sink to his level of profane name calling. It's pie in the sky dreaming that everything is going to work out perfectly. Really, the Browns can go from 0-16 to Super Bowl level talent in one off season? Please- you're talking crazy talk. It took the Lions three years- and that was with Matt Stafford (er, same level of talent as Cousins) and Megatron (at least as good or better than Gordon) to go from 0-16 to even have a 10-6 record. You have to learn how to walk before you can run.
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Yeah.... "instant" is a tad optimistic by like about three years... even if we assume the Offense does not substantially change under our new OC.
Still have depth issues everywhere... open questions at LT, FS... coverage issues at LB.
Then there's the whole learning how to win thing... in both the season and then the playoffs.
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I was listening to a Jets fan caller on Sirius NFL talking about Cousins. He was hoping they didn't sign him. The hosts were shocked at his lack of appreciation for Cousins. Right in line with my comments they mentioned bird in hand vs draft pick and 4200+ yards per year 30 TD's and a 2/1 or better TD / INT ratio on a mediocre team at best. I respect everyone's opinion but mine is the Browns need to pay as necessary to make this happen. With him , our existing talent ( mostly Gordon and Duke) the draft and free agency we are instant contenders for a championship. We need to focus enough on offense to end up with something like Cousins, Gordon, Jarvis Landry , Saquon Barkley , Duke and Njoku. Haley would pop a boner on that for sure.
This is where Ghoolie would blast you for a comment like that- I won't sink to his level of profane name calling. It's pie in the sky dreaming that everything is going to work out perfectly. Really, the Browns can go from 0-16 to Super Bowl level talent in one off season? Please- you're talking crazy talk. It took the Lions three years- and that was with Matt Stafford (er, same level of talent as Cousins) and Megatron (at least as good or better than Gordon) to go from 0-16 to even have a 10-6 record. You have to learn how to walk before you can run.
This is where Ghoolie would blast you for a comment like that- I won't sink to his level of profane name calling. It's pie in the sky dreaming that everything is going to work out perfectly. Really, the Browns can go from 0-16 to Super Bowl level talent in one off season? Please- you're talking crazy talk. It took the Lions three years- and that was with Matt Stafford (er, same level of talent as Cousins) and Megatron (at least as good or better than Gordon) to go from 0-16 to even have a 10-6 record. You have to learn how to walk before you can run.
I'll temper my enthusiasm by qualifying it as compete for the division championship. That I stand behind 100%
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Signing Cousins then drafting #1 Bradley Chubb and #4 Minkah Fitzpatrick with a RB+CB+LB+WR in the 2nd/3rd would be the perfect scenario...
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I respect your guys' opinions, but the Cousins situation just doesn't happen... A franchise QB becoming a FA (and it still might NOT happen). We have to at least try. There are 1-2 season turnarounds all over the NFL, and nothing would help that happen more than a vet QB with the talent Kirk has.
I have a hard time seeing the Smith + Draft Pick being a better choice, because Draft picks are such a gamble AND they take 2-3+ years just to develop...
In pro sports, you just CAN'T afford to pass up a great opportunity because you might not see it again...
#Justsayin' -
Signing Cousins then drafting #1 Bradley Chubb and #4 Minkah Fitzpatrick with a RB+CB+LB+WR in the 2nd/3rd would be the perfect scenario...
Signing Cousins then drafting #1 Bradley Chubb and #4 Minkah Fitzpatrick with a RB+CB+LB+WR in the 2nd/3rd would be the perfect scenario...
You can have one of those guys but the other is Barkley. Offensive weapons baby
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Signing Cousins then drafting #1 Bradley Chubb and #4 Minkah Fitzpatrick with a RB+CB+LB+WR in the 2nd/3rd would be the perfect scenario...
You can have one of those guys but the other is Barkley. Offensive weapons baby
You can have one of those guys but the other is Barkley. Offensive weapons baby
I like Ronald Jones, Kerryon Johnson, Guice, N.Chubb, Michel, Penny ect in the 2nd. Seems easier to predict elite talent at RB later on than any other position.
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I like Ronald Jones, Kerryon Johnson, Guice, N.Chubb, Michel, Penny ect in the 2nd. Seems easier to predict elite talent at RB later on than any other position.
Not sure about ease to predict, but the depth of very good talent at RB is much greater this year than it is at Edge.
I respect your guys' opinions, but the Cousins situation just doesn't happen... A franchise QB becoming a FA (and it still might NOT happen). We have to at least try. There are 1-2 season turnarounds all over the NFL, and nothing would help that happen more than a vet QB with the talent Kirk has.
I have a hard time seeing the Smith + Draft Pick being a better choice, because Draft picks are such a gamble AND they take 2-3+ years just to develop...
In pro sports, you just CAN'T afford to pass up a great opportunity because you might not see it again...
Smith + Top QB in Draft >> Cousins... but vs. Cousins + Top QB in Draft??? That's essentially Smith vs. Cousins? Another topic for another day...
With either vet QB you both... because if Cousins is all that and a bag of nuts then we are not seeing a top pick again for 5+ years. Just don't include a "no trade" clause in your offer to Cousins.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
For 35 or 40 million bucks he'd probably seriously consider the Montreal Alouettes.
WSS
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I respect your guys' opinions, but the Cousins situation just doesn't happen... A franchise QB becoming a FA (and it still might NOT happen). We have to at least try. There are 1-2 season turnarounds all over the NFL, and nothing would help that happen more than a vet QB with the talent Kirk has.
I have a hard time seeing the Smith + Draft Pick being a better choice, because Draft picks are such a gamble AND they take 2-3+ years just to develop...
In pro sports, you just CAN'T afford to pass up a great opportunity because you might not see it again...
I respect your guys' opinions, but the Cousins situation just doesn't happen... A franchise QB becoming a FA (and it still might NOT happen). We have to at least try. There are 1-2 season turnarounds all over the NFL, and nothing would help that happen more than a vet QB with the talent Kirk has.
I have a hard time seeing the Smith + Draft Pick being a better choice, because Draft picks are such a gamble AND they take 2-3+ years just to develop...
In pro sports, you just CAN'T afford to pass up a great opportunity because you might not see it again...
I'll echo Tour here... the Browns having the #1 overall two years in a row hasn't happened since '99 and '00. It's the bird in the hand argument. I don't see Cousins as significantly better than Smith. He'll just have a longer shelf life by a few years. By all accounts- and using my own eyes, this is a loaded QB class. The time to swing for the fences is now. Assuming the usual progression of things, we hopefully won't be in the pole position in the draft for a long time. We just saw what drafting a QB project in the second round looks like.
MHO is this isn't the year "to play it safe". Take the top 2 prospects @ #1 & #4 (one better be a qb) and don't look back.
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I respect your guys' opinions, but the Cousins situation just doesn't happen... A franchise QB becoming a FA (and it still might NOT happen). We have to at least try. There are 1-2 season turnarounds all over the NFL, and nothing would help that happen more than a vet QB with the talent Kirk has.
I have a hard time seeing the Smith + Draft Pick being a better choice, because Draft picks are such a gamble AND they take 2-3+ years just to develop...
In pro sports, you just CAN'T afford to pass up a great opportunity because you might not see it again...
I'll echo Tour here... the Browns having the #1 overall two years in a row hasn't happened since '99 and '00. It's the bird in the hand argument. I don't see Cousins as significantly better than Smith. He'll just have a longer shelf life by a few years. By all accounts- and using my own eyes, this is a loaded QB class. The time to swing for the fences is now. Assuming the usual progression of things, we hopefully won't be in the pole position in the draft for a long time. We just saw what drafting a QB project in the second round looks like.
MHO is this isn't the year "to play it safe". Take the top 2 prospects @ #1 & #4 (one better be a qb) and don't look back.
I'll echo Tour here... the Browns having the #1 overall two years in a row hasn't happened since '99 and '00. It's the bird in the hand argument. I don't see Cousins as significantly better than Smith. He'll just have a longer shelf life by a few years. By all accounts- and using my own eyes, this is a loaded QB class. The time to swing for the fences is now. Assuming the usual progression of things, we hopefully won't be in the pole position in the draft for a long time. We just saw what drafting a QB project in the second round looks like.
MHO is this isn't the year "to play it safe". Take the top 2 prospects @ #1 & #4 (one better be a qb) and don't look back.
Agree... biggest difference in FA QBs that I see is the $$$ commitment required to land Cousins.
And, yes, I know "cap space"... but if folks out there don't believe we can rush down the path to a cap crunch by overpaying Cousins and other positional FAs just because we can today, then I don't know what to tell them.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
This is why we trade for Smith...
Adam Schefter: If Jaguars can sign Kirk Cousins or Alex Smith, they’ll move on from Blake Bortles
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
This is why we trade for Smith...
Adam Schefter: If Jaguars can sign Kirk Cousins or Alex Smith, they’ll move on from Blake Bortles
This is why we trade for Smith...
Adam Schefter: If Jaguars can sign Kirk Cousins or Alex Smith, they’ll move on from Blake Bortles
Bortles cap hit is like 19M signed till 2019, Jags have 25K of cap space. Smith can only be traded for this season..Think KC likes the thought of a 19M back-up in Bortles?( I'd keep Smith) Bills(#21/#22) or Zona(#15) worry me more about grabbing Alex?( 2nd or 3rd round) Both also should worry Jets or Elway giving up a boatload to get to #2 or #3..
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This is why we trade for Smith...
Adam Schefter: If Jaguars can sign Kirk Cousins or Alex Smith, they’ll move on from Blake Bortles
Bortles cap hit is like 19M signed till 2019, Jags have 25K of cap space. Smith can only be traded for this season..Think KC likes the thought of a 19M back-up in Bortles?( I'd keep Smith) Bills(#21/#22) or Zona(#15) worry me more about grabbing Alex?( 2nd or 3rd round) Both also should worry Jets or Elway giving up a boatload to get to #2 or #3..
Bortles cap hit is like 19M signed till 2019, Jags have 25K of cap space. Smith can only be traded for this season..Think KC likes the thought of a 19M back-up in Bortles?( I'd keep Smith) Bills(#21/#22) or Zona(#15) worry me more about grabbing Alex?( 2nd or 3rd round) Both also should worry Jets or Elway giving up a boatload to get to #2 or #3..
Tour will have to interpret this for me, still learning the financial end of things.... . Bortles cap hit is $19 million, but there's no dead money. Does this mean they can flat out cut him once the new league year starts, and be off the hook?
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He ain't my Cousin!
I'm far more intrigued by Alex Smith. When he had his best offensive coaching - his passer ratings were above 90 the last 2 years at SF and all but 1 year in KC (the exception was 89.1). Coincidentally, both of his teams were winning and frequenting post seasons during this time. Prior to Alex Smith's arrival, the complaint in KC was they weren't winning in spite of 5-6 players making the Pro Bowl. Sound like better leadership needed? Land ho!
I don't see the same magic in Cousins yet. I've seen Washington play just as well or better when Colt McCoy started. What do we really know other than Washington seems really reluctant to lock him up long term? Not exactly the glowing endorsement I can get excited about.
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Bortles cap hit is like 19M signed till 2019, Jags have 25K of cap space. Smith can only be traded for this season..Think KC likes the thought of a 19M back-up in Bortles?( I'd keep Smith) Bills(#21/#22) or Zona(#15) worry me more about grabbing Alex?( 2nd or 3rd round) Both also should worry Jets or Elway giving up a boatload to get to #2 or #3..
Tour will have to interpret this for me, still learning the financial end of things.... . Bortles cap hit is $19 million, but there's no dead money. Does this mean they can flat out cut him once the new league year starts, and be off the hook?
Tour will have to interpret this for me, still learning the financial end of things.... . Bortles cap hit is $19 million, but there's no dead money. Does this mean they can flat out cut him once the new league year starts, and be off the hook?
Yes... Bortles will cost them nothing to cut.
I believe you are close to graduation, h.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
With regards to Cousins and why Browns should try and sign him and his "great" numbers, someone brought up he had no run game and a bad defense.
That what INFLATE his numbers. Bad defense=Having to outscore, which means more passes. No running game means throwing more.
In different threads on different players both NFL and draft prospects there sure are some mighty strange arguments for people in favor of those players. Very counterintuitive
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With regards to Cousins and why Browns should try and sign him and his "great" numbers, someone brought up he had no run game and a bad defense.
That what INFLATE his numbers. Bad defense=Having to outscore, which means more passes. No running game means throwing more.
In different threads on different players both NFL and draft prospects there sure are some mighty strange arguments for people in favor of those players. Very counterintuitive
With regards to Cousins and why Browns should try and sign him and his "great" numbers, someone brought up he had no run game and a bad defense.
That what INFLATE his numbers. Bad defense=Having to outscore, which means more passes. No running game means throwing more.
In different threads on different players both NFL and draft prospects there sure are some mighty strange arguments for people in favor of those players. Very counterintuitive
I believe Slugger made a comment about how Smith has only passed for 4000 yards once, as proof of his mediocrity.
Actually, if you go by yards per attempt over the last three seasons, Smith's YPA is only .3 yards an attempt less than Cousin's. (7.5YPA vs. 7.8YPA)
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With regards to Cousins and why Browns should try and sign him and his "great" numbers, someone brought up he had no run game and a bad defense.
That what INFLATE his numbers. Bad defense=Having to outscore, which means more passes. No running game means throwing more.
In different threads on different players both NFL and draft prospects there sure are some mighty strange arguments for people in favor of those players. Very counterintuitive
With regards to Cousins and why Browns should try and sign him and his "great" numbers, someone brought up he had no run game and a bad defense.
That what INFLATE his numbers. Bad defense=Having to outscore, which means more passes. No running game means throwing more.
In different threads on different players both NFL and draft prospects there sure are some mighty strange arguments for people in favor of those players. Very counterintuitive
Receivers were a problem this year, too.
Pryor didn't work (I don't remember if it was due to injuries), he lost Jackson, Reed played injured and was a shadow of himself... The receiver with most yards? Crowder with around 700.
I'd be more than happy to have Cousins in my team. I like the guy, and I think he puts good numbers, albeit not being amazing. With the amount of teams with a debatable QB there are, don't having to worry about that position is huge IMO.
The problem is the money. I believe that Cousins has always had a "second draft choice/backup QB" tag in Washington, as he was drafted after RGIII and was his backup. When he played well and asked for the money, they were reluctant. Is like Keenum this year: he played great, but I bet the Vikings aren't going to be the ones giving him the best offer.
That made Redskins tag him TWICE, and I bet that his next contract is going to be bigger than what it would have been if they finally had come to terms prior to all this tagging madness. And signing a guy with a market value much higher than his field value is something I don't want the Browns doing.
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With regards to Cousins and why Browns should try and sign him and his "great" numbers, someone brought up he had no run game and a bad defense.
That what INFLATE his numbers. Bad defense=Having to outscore, which means more passes. No running game means throwing more.
In different threads on different players both NFL and draft prospects there sure are some mighty strange arguments for people in favor of those players. Very counterintuitive
Receivers were a problem this year, too.
Pryor didn't work (I don't remember if it was due to injuries), he lost Jackson, Reed played injured and was a shadow of himself... The receiver with most yards? Crowder with around 700.
I'd be more than happy to have Cousins in my team. I like the guy, and I think he puts good numbers, albeit not being amazing. With the amount of teams with a debatable QB there are, don't having to worry about that position is huge IMO.
The problem is the money. I believe that Cousins has always had a "second draft choice/backup QB" tag in Washington, as he was drafted after RGIII and was his backup. When he played well and asked for the money, they were reluctant. Is like Keenum this year: he played great, but I bet the Vikings aren't going to be the ones giving him the best offer.
That made Redskins tag him TWICE, and I bet that his next contract is going to be bigger than what it would have been if they finally had come to terms prior to all this tagging madness. And signing a guy with a market value much higher than his field value is something I don't want the Browns doing.
And signing a guy with a market value much higher than his field value is something I don't want the Browns doing.
If that's true, you'll want the Browns to pattern themselves after the Packers and Steelers, who build through the draft and supplement their rosters (generally) with free agents who don't demand huge contracts. As much as I hate the Steelers, they have a plan that works.
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