The Curious Case of Eli Manning
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Cal, you are using one of the most polarizing QBs as an example haha. Eli has not been the picture of consistency throughout his career.
Accurate in college doesn’t guarantee success. But inaccuracy tends to never go away when the windows get tighter. There are a few exceptions but they do not represent the vast majority who wash out because inaccuracy plagues them. Browns fans have seen this movie. It sucks.
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That's legit. I can go with that. It's an anomaly that Eli got Beckham, which opened his windows quite a bit, often.
I wish Allen didn't have the accuracy problem, we'll see how it goes. I'm glad he did better that first half,
or we'd have a senior bowl thread on fire. Wentz was incredibly accurate - too bad he wasn't picked.
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The stats seem to be skewed by his early career numbers. Odell may have helped raise his percentage by half a point at the most, but it’s hard to say for sure that’s why.
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it is NOT about Allen. It's about asking the question, presenting it accurately, then watching as a few people divert and complain because they can't defend their position on completion percentages of the qbs in the draft, like tc.
On principle, what explanation defending completion percentages being so high on the criteria bandwagon is there?
The completion percentage is being applied to every qb in this draft. Try to answer the question, and stop bitching, and frantically changing the subject.
it is NOT about Allen. It's about asking the question, presenting it accurately, then watching as a few people divert and complain because they can't defend their position on completion percentages of the qbs in the draft, like tc.
On principle, what explanation defending completion percentages being so high on the criteria bandwagon is there?
The completion percentage is being applied to every qb in this draft. Try to answer the question, and stop bitching, and frantically changing the subject.
Mannings completion % was higher this 3 - 13 season than both seasons when the Giants won the Super Bowl.
The great Johnny Football had a 70% completions rate in college. These guys think that the QB is like your ace pitcher that you can throw out there for 16 games and he alone can bring home the W.
BTW, the Giants were 9 - 7 and 10 - 6 and won the Lombardi. The Browns are not the Giants but with a few good moves and picks 8 - 8 is not out of the question.
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So he went from an average 60.8 in college to lower pct in the NFL. Thank you for posting a case that doesn't help the case of a guy going 56% in college.
So he went from an average 60.8 in college to lower pct in the NFL. Thank you for posting a case that doesn't help the case of a guy going 56% in college.
Brady got better in the NFL and so did Brees.
Favre was a ... 54.5 passer in college https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brett-favre-1.html Allen is better.
Let the chimps feces throwing begin.
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Cal, you are using one of the most polarizing QBs as an example haha. Eli has not been the picture of consistency throughout his career.
Accurate in college doesn’t guarantee success. But inaccuracy tends to never go away when the windows get tighter. There are a few exceptions but they do not represent the vast majority who wash out because inaccuracy plagues them. Browns fans have seen this movie. It sucks.
Accurate in college doesn’t guarantee success. But inaccuracy tends to never go away when the windows get tighter. There are a few exceptions but they do not represent the vast majority who wash out because inaccuracy plagues them. Browns fans have seen this movie. It sucks.
Exactly what I've been saying all along.
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So he went from an average 60.8 in college to lower pct in the NFL. Thank you for posting a case that doesn't help the case of a guy going 56% in college.
So he went from an average 60.8 in college to lower pct in the NFL. Thank you for posting a case that doesn't help the case of a guy going 56% in college.
you conveniently ignore the years. 4 yrs vs 13 ? yrs. Thank you for cherry picking.
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So he went from an average 60.8 in college to lower pct in the NFL. Thank you for posting a case that doesn't help the case of a guy going 56% in college.
Brady got better in the NFL and so did Brees.
Favre was a ... 54.5 passer in college https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brett-favre-1.html Allen is better.
Let the chimps feces throwing begin.
Brady got better in the NFL and so did Brees.
Favre was a ... 54.5 passer in college https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brett-favre-1.html Allen is better.
Let the chimps feces throwing begin.
You are right. Favre's, Brady, and Brees' cases do indeed help Allen's.
But let's comment some things on those cases: It took 3 years to Brees to become the player we know he is, Brady played thanks to Bledsoe getting injured and Favre's resume in Atlanta is, per Wikipedia, 'He only attempted four passes in his career at Atlanta, was intercepted twice, and completed none of them. Favre took one other snap, which resulted in a sack for an eleven-yard loss.'
Moreover, all those three players weren't picked in first round (Brees #32, Favre #33, Brady #199). Neither of them were the first QB picked.
Favre was chosen the 3rd QB in a defensive draft and also had an incredible arm and holds the record for the longest playing streak. He was tough as nails.
You can make a case that a players accuracy can improve in the pros, but either it is in the fewest of cases, or it takes HOFers to achieve that feat. That's why I don't want to draft Allen with either #1 or #4 (and those are the picks where I would accept getting a QB this draft), because there are many more things that can go wrong in that case that if you draft someone more ready. If we were talking about drafting him on second round, I wouldn't mind.
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This is completely different than the Curious Case of The Dog in the Night.
The Dog did nothing in the night....and that was significant.
Here...there is nothing done here either, but is no significance.
(Also...Trivia question: Cal takes the name of this thread from a literary source...and adapts it....name that source)
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This is completely different than the Curious Case of The Dog in the Night.
The Dog did nothing in the night....and that was significant.
Here...there is nothing done here either, but is no significance.
(Also...Trivia question: Cal takes the name of this thread from a literary source...and adapts it....name that source)
This is completely different than the Curious Case of The Dog in the Night.
The Dog did nothing in the night....and that was significant.
Here...there is nothing done here either, but is no significance.
(Also...Trivia question: Cal takes the name of this thread from a literary source...and adapts it....name that source)
The Curious Case of Benjamin Button. I don't know the writer. Wikipedia says Scott Fitzgerald.
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If you have a larger sample it only proves that having a better pct in the pros is incredibly difficult.
can't argue with that.... makes it far tougher to do that coming from a spread offense - so pro style college offenses should
have a huge advantage when they get there, I think.
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can't argue with that.... makes it far tougher to do that coming from a spread offense - so pro style college offenses should
have a huge advantage when they get there, I think.
They have an advantage and QBs benefit from it, because I'd say that no draftee is a '%100 safe bet', either injuries or anything can turn a promise into a bust. So if teams see a QB that already plays in a pro style offense, at least you know what can he do, unlike other spread offense QBs (Brees was picked in second round not only for his height, but for coming from a spread offense). Sometimes players are able to learn and adapt, sometimes not.
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The ability to adapt - seems to be a rare quality. I'm starting to think that Mike White, who has thrived in both?, might very well have it.
and he has excellent accuracy and a big arm. And, it may very well be, that the Patriots hope he falls to them in the first round.
He may be more ready to play in the pros than any other qb in this draft. I'm really interested.
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This is completely different than the Curious Case of The Dog in the Night.
The Dog did nothing in the night....and that was significant.
Here...there is nothing done here either, but is no significance.
(Also...Trivia question: Cal takes the name of this thread from a literary source...and adapts it....name that source)
The Curious Case of Benjamin Button. I don't know the writer. Wikipedia says Scott Fitzgerald.
The Curious Case of Benjamin Button. I don't know the writer. Wikipedia says Scott Fitzgerald.
Well, no..."The Curious Case of Benjamin Button" was simply a take off on "The Curious Case of the Dog in the Night"....the nomenclature of which precedes Fitzgerald.
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Well, no..."The Curious Case of Benjamin Button" was simply a take off on "The Curious Case of the Dog in the Night"....the nomenclature of which precedes Fitzgerald.
Well, yes... You asked for the source. Scott Fitzgerald is the answer. I want my cookie.
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Well, no..."The Curious Case of Benjamin Button" was simply a take off on "The Curious Case of the Dog in the Night"....the nomenclature of which precedes Fitzgerald.
Well, yes... You asked for the source. Scott Fitzgerald is the answer. I want my cookie.
Well, yes... You asked for the source. Scott Fitzgerald is the answer. I want my cookie.
NO soup for you....you got it wrong. Read my question. It asked for the source of "The Curious Case of the Dog in the Night". And if you googled, you cheated. And you get a vinegar enema!
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So much is argued about completion percentages as a main criteria to judge future NFL qb's by.
The fitst pro I looked up for this thread was Eli Manning.
2000 Ole Miss Rebels 52.8
2001 Ole Miss Rebels 63.5
2002 Ole Miss Rebels 58.0
2003 Ole Miss Rebels 62.4
Career 60.8
so, he's a very inaccurate bum, but then he's an accurate star, but then he's a bum, but then he's an accurate star..but that's college.
In the pros:
starting at 2004
48.2
52.8
57.7
56.1
60.3
62.3
62.9
61.0
59.9
2013 57.5*** Odell Beckham Jr gets drafted in 2014, first round, also drafted Weston, OC, second round ***
63.1
62.6
63.0
61.6
Average 59.8So, it seems his numbers fluctuate. What exactly does that mean? He's hopelessly inaccurate? Seems that his percentage changed with the changing cast of characters around him...changing offensive strategies.... etc. Looks like the passing percentages went well above 60 the last four years with the arrival of a top center and Odell Beckham, Jr - WR. Just sayin..... God Bless Ya ! (how did Flugels miss these stats?)
So much is argued about completion percentages as a main criteria to judge future NFL qb's by.
So, it seems his numbers fluctuate. What exactly does that mean? He's hopelessly inaccurate? Seems that his percentage changed with the changing cast of characters around him...changing offensive strategies.... etc. Looks like the passing percentages went well above 60 the last four years with the arrival of a top center and Odell Beckham, Jr - WR. Just sayin..... God Bless Ya ! (how did Flugels miss these stats?)
Good, honest attempt to talk about QBs, all QBs, is what I see, cal. In the end to make any use of whatever comes out of the conversation, you can't exclude Allen, but that doesn't make this just about him. So I'm in.
We throw a lot of nebulous terms around in pro QB discussions.... "elite"... "franchise"... "starter"... "backup". Where's Eli in this range? He's certainly a starter. I don't see elite. Franchise? Probably... but I think any consideration he's given for this level is longevity driven, not talent driven.
In parallel we talk about QBs who can "carry a team"... "elevate teammates"... "manage a game"... "fill in". Again where's Eli? I don't see elevation and his game management capacity is questionable from season to season... even week to week. However, there have certainly been games where he has carried the Giants.
Bottom line? I'm left seeing a middling, talented starter whose performance is more influenced by the level of talent around him than the other way around. While OBJ is arguably the most significant factor in setting that talent level, he's not the only WR of significance let alone the only player of significance. Plus we have to remember that thru FA acquisitions NYG bought itself one of the best Defenses in the league in 2016. So talent considerations are not restricted to just one side of the ball.
At Ole Miss Eli showed the same fluctuating performance as he has as a pro and his 2001-2003 numbers are right in line with the range of his pro numbers. His Freshman season in 2000 was a 33-attempt, part-time season that deserves no weight. Seems to simply be another example of a pro QB who was "as advertised" in college.
Where do we go from here?
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