Cousins would "seriously consider" the Browns
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We have 118 million in cap space. If we spend 30m on a QB we still have a ton of cap space. We could make Garrett and Gordon the highest paid players at their positions and still have enough money to bring in some free agents. Not to mention were going to lose other players in the next couple of years like Thomas, McCourty, and others who don't live up to their contract or aren't good fits.
Spending on a QB won't hurt us unless we get carried away in free agency. Getting a QB is the easiest way to get wins and Cousins wins games.
I know I'm coming off as Cousins fan boy, but I'm not. I am anti- Smith because I've watched him play since he was drafted. He would be a waste of money that won't get us in a position to get into the playoffs. If your looking for someone to take lumps until the rookie is ready just throw Kizer out there. It won't cost us anything and we weren't going to the playoffs anyway
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@louisville-slugger, you're missing another point in all your reasoning: NFL contracts tend to put most of the money on the third year of contract. And it makes a lot of sense, because that ensures Cousins (in this case) that we won't dump him after 2 years because the shitload of money we would have as dead cap.
Just remember that last year we made a deal with Houston to take Osweilers contract for a second round pick. What's a 2nd round pick worth? Ask Garoppolo.
We have a lot of cap space NOW, but that doesn't mean that we don't have to use it wisely.
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Why are you guys so worried about money? We have a ridiculous amount and it doesn't roll over. If we don't sign Cousins that money probably goes to waste. Our front office has to work the contracts so we don't end up in cap he'l if they can't do that they need to be fired
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Why are you guys so worried about money? We have a ridiculous amount and it doesn't roll over. If we don't sign Cousins that money probably goes to waste. Our front office has to work the contracts so we don't end up in cap he'l if they can't do that they need to be fired
Why are you guys so worried about money? We have a ridiculous amount and it doesn't roll over. If we don't sign Cousins that money probably goes to waste. Our front office has to work the contracts so we don't end up in cap hell if they can't do that they need to be fired
Unused Cap space certainly does roll over. That may well be the error in your thinking. It's not a "use it or lose it" situation. IIRC- and Tour can correct me if I'm wrong on this- the only caveat is (I think) there's a 5? year rolling period where a team has to spend a minimum on contracts. There's not only a ceiling, there's also a floor. And like they say "it's complicated".
Yup. working contracts is pretty important- that's why we're going to need cap room down the road- when we (think) we're only one player away, to afford the mega contract they're likely to demand. This isn't the time to make Cousins the highest paid QB in the league when the roster still has more holes in it than swiss cheese. I'm glad you're not doing the bean counting for the Browns.
Case in point- the Dolphins threw humongous money at Ndamukong Suh, and they currently have very little wiggle room to go out and sign FAs. Latest stat from over the cap has the Steelers $3million over- so where you think they're going to pull $10 million+ out of their a$$ to keep Le'veon Bell on the team? You want instant gratification? There's the guy we should go after.
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Based on the conversations in here, it's clear many of you would steer clear of Cousins. There's some talk in DC right now of giving Cousins the 3rd franchise tag at $34.5 million and trying to negotiate a trade. Of course, Cuosins has to be a party to that and willing to do a long-term deal with the trade partner. Talk here is that Denver is of mutual interest. But the Browns, simply due to the cap space and plethora of picks, have also come up. Given that you'd have to pay the man, what picks would Browns fans be willing to part with? I think it's safe to sa that #1 and #4 would be off the board. By the sounds of it, many of you would be against any trade given you'd be against signing him for "free" ...
As a Redskins fan, I want Cousins back. But if we're not going to get him to a long-term deal, I'll take anything that can help us move the franchise forward. In the case of the Browns, I'd jump at getting 33 & 35 ... and if that's too rich, 33 & 61.Browns would have Cuosins as their long-term solution at QB. If he completely bombs for whatever reason, you've got Kizer who can still be groomed. Then you can go BPA at 1 & 4 and continue to load the defense and probably add Saquan.
I will say, Saquan + Cousins + Gordon, Coleman, and whoever you add in FA at WR (Allen Robinson?) ... would make for a suddenly potent offense to go with your extremely young and loaded defense.
The Browns remind me a bit right now of Jacksonville 2 years ago. I think with Cousins, you could accelerate the timetable from 2 years from contention to immediate contention. in one off-season.
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Oh and the "talk" re: Denver is pure speculation ... and if it's mutual, the discussion was around Denver sending #5 and #40 to Washington for Cousins and #13 ... effectively the equivalent of a mid-first round pick in terms of trade-chart value.
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As far as the discussion re: signing Cousins with your massive cap space ... the Browns could effectively load a massive signing bonus into 2018 and make Cousins cap hit in later years much lighter when the Browns will be wanting to re-sign players who are now on rookie deals. Put something like $50 million of the $70 million guaranteed into 2018 cap hit and free up 2019-2023 cap hits to pay guys like Shelton, Garret, the #1 and #4 picks this year, etc.
Of course, you have to have ownership willing enough to spend that $$. The problem in DC isn't an owner who isn't willing to spend, but an owner who is incapable of bringing in anyone to make good decisions (and then when they do, driving them out for BS reasons - see McCloughan, Scot)
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As far as the discussion re: signing Cousins with your massive cap space ... the Browns could effectively load a massive signing bonus into 2018 and make Cousins cap hit in later years much lighter when the Browns will be wanting to re-sign players who are now on rookie deals. Put something like $50 million of the $70 million guaranteed into 2018 cap hit and free up 2019-2023 cap hits to pay guys like Shelton, Garret, the #1 and #4 picks this year, etc.
Of course, you have to have ownership willing enough to spend that $$. The problem in DC isn't an owner who isn't willing to spend, but an owner who is incapable of bringing in anyone to make good decisions (and then when they do, driving them out for BS reasons - see McCloughan, Scot)
Of course, you have to have ownership willing enough to spend that $$. The problem in DC isn't an owner who isn't willing to spend, but an owner who is incapable of bringing in anyone to make good decisions (and then when they do, driving them out for BS reasons
...sound a lot like us for the last 20 years.
Free agency comes first...so we'll see what happens....
Heard Ryan Leaf on The Fan today. He likes the Cousins to the Browns idea better than drafting a QB so as to immediately get the offense 'established'. But he suspects that Cousins would only come is to get the big pay day. (I didn't realize how Leaf had turned his life around and is trying to help people. - Good for him!)
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Why is the assumption, if we sign Cousins we dont draft an elite QB? We have enough draft and cap capital to do both.
If the rookie beats out Cousins in year 2 or 3, you trade Cousins to a QB-needy team, or you front-load the guaranteed money
Cant see giving up a 2 for Smith- basically a 1-2 year rental...
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Why is the assumption, if we sign Cousins we dont draft an elite QB? We have enough draft and cap capital to do both.
If the rookie beats out Cousins in year 2 or 3, you trade Cousins to a QB-needy team, or you front-load the guaranteed money
Cant see giving up a 2 for Smith- basically a 1-2 year rental...
Why is the assumption, if we sign Cousins we dont draft an elite QB?
Because of the substantial 'investment' in getting him. - It would be 'almost' comparable to drafting QB's at 1 & 4.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
Pure hypothetical. But if you’re the Browns in FA and manage to land Bell and Cousins ... wouldn’t that make the draft even more exciting? You could trade #1 for a ransom to a QB needy team and just load up across the board. Not to mention you’d probably go from 0-16 to 9-7 purely by adding Cousins and Bell and allowing the rest of your team to progress ... throw in all those draft picks and you could be set for years.
Then the Steelers for as well as they’re run, are down Bell and soon Big Ben. Ravens are pretty meh right now. Cincy is average. There could be a window for the Browns to dominate. And this is an assessment from an outsider.
could you imagine the AFC being taken over by the Browns and Jags for the next 4-5 years? Lol
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Based on the conversations in here, it's clear many of you would steer clear of Cousins. There's some talk in DC right now of giving Cousins the 3rd franchise tag at $34.5 million and trying to negotiate a trade. Of course, Cuosins has to be a party to that and willing to do a long-term deal with the trade partner. Talk here is that Denver is of mutual interest. But the Browns, simply due to the cap space and plethora of picks, have also come up. Given that you'd have to pay the man, what picks would Browns fans be willing to part with? I think it's safe to sa that #1 and #4 would be off the board. By the sounds of it, many of you would be against any trade given you'd be against signing him for "free" ...
As a Redskins fan, I want Cousins back. But if we're not going to get him to a long-term deal, I'll take anything that can help us move the franchise forward. In the case of the Browns, I'd jump at getting 33 & 35 ... and if that's too rich, 33 & 61.Browns would have Cuosins as their long-term solution at QB. If he completely bombs for whatever reason, you've got Kizer who can still be groomed. Then you can go BPA at 1 & 4 and continue to load the defense and probably add Saquan.
I will say, Saquan + Cousins + Gordon, Coleman, and whoever you add in FA at WR (Allen Robinson?) ... would make for a suddenly potent offense to go with your extremely young and loaded defense.
The Browns remind me a bit right now of Jacksonville 2 years ago. I think with Cousins, you could accelerate the timetable from 2 years from contention to immediate contention. in one off-season.
Based on the conversations in here, it's clear many of you would steer clear of Cousins. There's some talk in DC right now of giving Cousins the 3rd franchise tag at $34.5 million and trying to negotiate a trade. Of course, Cuosins has to be a party to that and willing to do a long-term deal with the trade partner. Talk here is that Denver is of mutual interest. But the Browns, simply due to the cap space and plethora of picks, have also come up. Given that you'd have to pay the man, what picks would Browns fans be willing to part with? I think it's safe to sa that #1 and #4 would be off the board. By the sounds of it, many of you would be against any trade given you'd be against signing him for "free" ...
As a Redskins fan, I want Cousins back. But if we're not going to get him to a long-term deal, I'll take anything that can help us move the franchise forward. In the case of the Browns, I'd jump at getting 33 & 35 ... and if that's too rich, 33 & 61.Browns would have Cuosins as their long-term solution at QB. If he completely bombs for whatever reason, you've got Kizer who can still be groomed. Then you can go BPA at 1 & 4 and continue to load the defense and probably add Saquan.
I will say, Saquan + Cousins + Gordon, Coleman, and whoever you add in FA at WR (Allen Robinson?) ... would make for a suddenly potent offense to go with your extremely young and loaded defense.
The Browns remind me a bit right now of Jacksonville 2 years ago. I think with Cousins, you could accelerate the timetable from 2 years from contention to immediate contention. in one off-season.
thanks for the input. Regarding a tag, renegotiate sign and trade- maybe. No team is going to offer your two firsts for Cousins on an outright tag, especially in the Browns case the #1 overall. $34 million isn't on the table. That's plain crazy, I can't believe the Redskins would even entertain the thought. Seriously front loading a contract is possible. I doubt we'd offer #33. #35 + a 4th is as high as I'd go, and if that's not good enough- I'll see what KC wants for Smith.
Regarding the Brown's defense- the backfield is a disaster area. A lot of chatter taking Minkah Fitzpatrick @ #4. I'm averse (but not everyone is) to making a play for Cousins at the expense of taking Saquon and BPA on defense. We haven't drafted a QB in the top 10 since Couch- and take it from me, the vast majority of the Natives are very restless in that regard in Cleveland. The sting of passing on Wentz and then Watson is a sore spot. We go Barkley\ Fitzpatrick\Cousins and one of the 2018 top QBs turns into another stud- I'll about puke. Unless Cousins performs like a top 5-10 QB for the next 5 years.
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Because of the substantial 'investment' in getting him. - It would be 'almost' comparable to drafting QB's at 1 & 4.
Except not at all. Draft picks and cash are NOT 2 comparable assets.
Money is an issue if you don't want to put your team in cap hell down the road. I'll give you a couple fer instances. Garrett turns into another Bruce Smith- got some space for a Suh contract? Gordon reverts to his pro bowl form and stays off of drugs = top 5 WR money. We're going to have a bunch of guys a few years down the road coming off their rookie deals- (like Schobert) and if we want to keep them, we had better have the cap room to do so.
Worrying about re-signing a guy 4 years down the line is certainly one way to ensure perpetual suckage for our beloved Browns... we can worry 1 year, maybe 2 years for a superstar, but 4 years for a guy we just drafted... should NOT influence our decision-making THIS offseason...
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Because of the substantial 'investment' in getting him. - It would be 'almost' comparable to drafting QB's at 1 & 4.
Except not at all. Draft picks and cash are NOT 2 comparable assets.
Money is an issue if you don't want to put your team in cap hell down the road. I'll give you a couple fer instances. Garrett turns into another Bruce Smith- got some space for a Suh contract? Gordon reverts to his pro bowl form and stays off of drugs = top 5 WR money. We're going to have a bunch of guys a few years down the road coming off their rookie deals- (like Schobert) and if we want to keep them, we had better have the cap room to do so.
Worrying about re-signing a guy 4 years down the line is certainly one way to ensure perpetual suckage for our beloved Browns... we can worry 1 year, maybe 2 years for a superstar, but 4 years for a guy we just drafted... should NOT influence our decision-making THIS offseason...
Except not at all. Draft picks and cash are NOT 2 comparable assets.
Worrying about re-signing a guy 4 years down the line is certainly one way to ensure perpetual suckage for our beloved Browns... we can worry 1 year, maybe 2 years for a superstar, but 4 years for a guy we just drafted... should NOT influence our decision-making THIS offseason...
So, from some quarters- let's spend money like a drunken sailor on shore leave this year? Fortunately, listening to Red Zone tonight- Dorsey isn't going to repeat the lessons he learned about cap room in KC....
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For all the Smith hopefuls...
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For all the Smith hopefuls...
Who gives a flying fadoodle. All that says to me is: I don't like the thought of going to an 0-16 team...and I have absolutely no confidence in my own abilities that I can bring any better results to that team.
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Why are you guys so worried about money? We have a ridiculous amount and it doesn't roll over. If we don't sign Cousins that money probably goes to waste. Our front office has to work the contracts so we don't end up in cap hell if they can't do that they need to be fired
Unused Cap space certainly does roll over. That may well be the error in your thinking. It's not a "use it or lose it" situation. IIRC- and Tour can correct me if I'm wrong on this- the only caveat is (I think) there's a 5? year rolling period where a team has to spend a minimum on contracts. There's not only a ceiling, there's also a floor. And like they say "it's complicated".
Yup. working contracts is pretty important- that's why we're going to need cap room down the road- when we (think) we're only one player away, to afford the mega contract they're likely to demand. This isn't the time to make Cousins the highest paid QB in the league when the roster still has more holes in it than swiss cheese. I'm glad you're not doing the bean counting for the Browns.
Case in point- the Dolphins threw humongous money at Ndamukong Suh, and they currently have very little wiggle room to go out and sign FAs. Latest stat from over the cap has the Steelers $3million over- so where you think they're going to pull $10 million+ out of their a$$ to keep Le'veon Bell on the team? You want instant gratification? There's the guy we should go after.
Unused Cap space certainly does roll over. That may well be the error in your thinking. It's not a "use it or lose it" situation. IIRC- and Tour can correct me if I'm wrong on this- the only caveat is (I think) there's a 5? year rolling period where a team has to spend a minimum on contracts. There's not only a ceiling, there's also a floor. And like they say "it's complicated".
Really getting in the grad level weeds here, h... but, yes, teams can roll cap space (albeit it does not happen automatically) and there's a min spend require that comes and goes.
Best I know this article still captures most of these issues. https://russellstreetreport.com/salarycap/nfl-salary-cap-faqs/
Based on the conversations in here, it's clear many of you would steer clear of Cousins. There's some talk in DC right now of giving Cousins the 3rd franchise tag at $34.5 million and trying to negotiate a trade.
Why would any team trade vs. simply wait one more year for Cousins to hit FA?
Spending on a QB won't hurt us unless we get carried away in free agency. Getting a QB is the easiest way to get wins and Cousins wins games.
So, from some quarters- let's spend money like a drunken sailor on shore leave this year? Fortunately, listening to Red Zone tonight- Dorsey isn't going to repeat the lessons he learned about cap room in KC....
Let's hope Dorsey has learned his lessons, but in fairness to him a sizeable part of his KC problems came when he overpaid resigning his own players. No better example of this than he of the 22-sack-season-in-a-contract-year, Justin Houston. Gave the guy a franchise QB-sized contract and in it's first three years his sack total is shy of the one year that got him the contract. Add in Smith, Fischer, Berry, Johnson and Kelce... players that deserve sizeable paydays... and that's $88mm of KC's cap in their top six players. Cap space goes fast.
Then there's the retention of the middle of the team. Every year you have around one-third of your players that are rolling off of their current deals. That's 18 players in round numbers. One-third to one-half of these are going to be supplanted by cap-saving draftees. For many of the rest this means moving sub-$1mm contracts towards league average deals. Bump ten contracts by $4mm each on average and there's $40mm in cap gone.
Bottom line... there's a reason teams have cap gurus focused on looking down the road.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Why are you guys so worried about money? We have a ridiculous amount and it doesn't roll over. If we don't sign Cousins that money probably goes to waste. Our front office has to work the contracts so we don't end up in cap hell if they can't do that they need to be fired
Unused Cap space certainly does roll over. That may well be the error in your thinking. It's not a "use it or lose it" situation. IIRC- and Tour can correct me if I'm wrong on this- the only caveat is (I think) there's a 5? year rolling period where a team has to spend a minimum on contracts. There's not only a ceiling, there's also a floor. And like they say "it's complicated".
Yup. working contracts is pretty important- that's why we're going to need cap room down the road- when we (think) we're only one player away, to afford the mega contract they're likely to demand. This isn't the time to make Cousins the highest paid QB in the league when the roster still has more holes in it than swiss cheese. I'm glad you're not doing the bean counting for the Browns.
Case in point- the Dolphins threw humongous money at Ndamukong Suh, and they currently have very little wiggle room to go out and sign FAs. Latest stat from over the cap has the Steelers $3million over- so where you think they're going to pull $10 million+ out of their a$$ to keep Le'veon Bell on the team? You want instant gratification? There's the guy we should go after.
Unused Cap space certainly does roll over. That may well be the error in your thinking. It's not a "use it or lose it" situation. IIRC- and Tour can correct me if I'm wrong on this- the only caveat is (I think) there's a 5? year rolling period where a team has to spend a minimum on contracts. There's not only a ceiling, there's also a floor. And like they say "it's complicated".
Yup. working contracts is pretty important- that's why we're going to need cap room down the road- when we (think) we're only one player away, to afford the mega contract they're likely to demand. This isn't the time to make Cousins the highest paid QB in the league when the roster still has more holes in it than swiss cheese. I'm glad you're not doing the bean counting for the Browns.
Case in point- the Dolphins threw humongous money at Ndamukong Suh, and they currently have very little wiggle room to go out and sign FAs. Latest stat from over the cap has the Steelers $3million over- so where you think they're going to pull $10 million+ out of their a$$ to keep Le'veon Bell on the team? You want instant gratification? There's the guy we should go after.
You're right I did forgot about the new cba. I had a pretty good idea how the old system works, this new stuff is way too complicated. Isn't it like you can roll it for like 5 years then you have to meet the cap floor?
We still have 118 millions so we can front load his salary and keep us from getting into cap issues down the road. The only team that could get in a bidding war with us is the jets and it would take almost all of their available cap space to get Cousins. I think he will not get the contract he's looking for
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Reports are now flying that Cousins to Denver is close to a done deal...
How? Given the start of the league year is still over a month away... I have no idea.
One other interesting tidbit... in addition to us, NYJ, and DNV pursuing Cousins... The Vikings were mentioned. Had not seen them mentioned before, but why not? They don't have a QB signed to their roster.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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