Trade Kizer and release Gordon ?
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Exactly Woodster- he's still on his rookie 2nd round deal (looked it up on spotrac just over $1 million) and at worst he'll be third string this year.
Some people may not realize that Kizer didn't really have that much experience at ND plus he was a passing and running QB there, doesn't always translate to the NFL game. And maybe he had recievers that could catch?
Passing
Passing Year School Conf Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate Career Notre Dame 422 695 60.7 5805 8.4 8.5 47 19 147.7 *2015 Notre Dame Ind SO QB 13 210 334 62.9 2880 8.6 8.5 21 10 150.1 2016 Notre Dame Ind JR QB 12 212 361 58.7 2925 8.1 8.4 26 9 145.6 Rushing Receiving Scrimmage Year School Conf Class Pos G Att Yds Avg TD Rec Yds Avg TD Plays Yds Avg TD Career Notre Dame 264 997 3.8 18 1 4 4.0 0 265 1001 3.8 18 *2015 Notre Dame Ind SO QB 13 135 525 3.9 10 0 0 0 135 525 3.9 10 2016 Notre Dame Ind JR QB 12 129 472 3.7 8 1 4 4.0 0 130 476 3.7 8 Some people may not realize that Kizer didn't really have that much experience at ND plus he was a passing and running QB there, doesn't always translate to the NFL game. And maybe he had recievers that could catch?
There are a lot of times that I wish he would have run instead of thrown. How many of his Ints. were in the red zone? A fair number. If he had just run instead of throwing all those picks....the Browns may have actually won a couple of games. It would at least have given us FG opportunities, rather than being a turnover.
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Some people may not realize that Kizer didn't really have that much experience at ND plus he was a passing and running QB there, doesn't always translate to the NFL game. And maybe he had recievers that could catch?
There are a lot of times that I wish he would have run instead of thrown. How many of his Ints. were in the red zone? A fair number. If he had just run instead of throwing all those picks....the Browns may have actually won a couple of games. It would at least have given us FG opportunities, rather than being a turnover.
There are a lot of times that I wish he would have run instead of thrown. How many of his Ints. were in the red zone? A fair number. If he had just run instead of throwing all those picks....the Browns may have actually won a couple of games. It would at least have given us FG opportunities, rather than being a turnover.
There are really only two situations in which I wish he had ran last year 1) When he was under center 2) When he took snaps in shotgun.
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I would have never drafted the kid. That said, I will repeat myself for #201, he has more upside, and greater physical skills than any QB we have, and more than likely, any QB we are considering.
The kid had the Steelers dead to rights. Fumble fingers Coleman screwed the kid over. Kizer can play. Unfortunately, he mixes in enough horseschidt to sour an entire game. Decision making? He can get better. Really, is he costing so much that releasing him is a big bonus? WHo would we put in his place?
Sorry, this kid has better skills than RG3. He likes his job, the players like him, he isn't making a mess off the field and reportedly he is a hard butt worker. Black Tarkenton or not, you gotta be nuts to get rid of a kid of this caliber.
Agree that we do not dump him. He does have that raw potential....but no, no reason to get rid of him. That does not mean though that we do not bring in his potential replacement.
Agree that we do not dump him. He does have that raw potential....but no, no reason to get rid of him. That does not mean though that we do not bring in his potential replacement.
You know Gip, who are you, Hue, me, or anyone else to say that a veteran or new draftee will be his replacement? The new guy is still going to have to compete. The last time I looked, nobody gave Kizer the starting job. Whatever the level of talent we had, Kizer beat them. How do we know that Kizer won't beat out McCarron, et. al?
Here is what bothers me about this schidt pile. At QB, we aren't looking for a QB, we are looking for a savior, a miracle worker, someone to magically save the jobs of management and make the owner look respectable.
If we are looking for a QB? Then Kizer is not a question mark. He is part of this team and it is in everyone's interest to make this kid all he can be. I think Hue and the Browns treated this kid like schidt. Pulling him, not giving him confidence, not giving him weapons, and giving him an unimaginative, sitting duck offense that Joe Montana couldn't succeed in.
Anyone can draft talent. All these kids have talent. Developing players, that's what the Browns suck at. Kizer is a solid athlete, and a solid young man. You don't get rid of that spirit, you build on it.
The Cleveland Browns have the hardest hit players in the NFL -
Hey guys, first post and life long Raider fan here. I applaud the Browns for sticking with Gordon and the way he is humbly dedicated to the team. I hope he retires a Brown.
I wanted to pop in and offer my input to you guys and to be honest you are not that far of. Some things I would consider:
Sign McCarron and by all means keep Kizer, but stash as the #2 and let him settle down from 2017.
Miami just tagged Landry. Make a serious run at him ( you got cap, use it now $15 - $16 mil per annum), send Miami your #4 this year and next yrs first.You have all those second rnd picks to make up for the loss of #4. Landry on one side, Gordon on the other (drool)
Sign Gordon, I believe he would sign for a reasonable amount
Draft Barkley #1
Good luck on the season
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Agree that we do not dump him. He does have that raw potential....but no, no reason to get rid of him. That does not mean though that we do not bring in his potential replacement.
You know Gip, who are you, Hue, me, or anyone else to say that a veteran or new draftee will be his replacement? The new guy is still going to have to compete. The last time I looked, nobody gave Kizer the starting job. Whatever the level of talent we had, Kizer beat them. How do we know that Kizer won't beat out McCarron, et. al?
Here is what bothers me about this schidt pile. At QB, we aren't looking for a QB, we are looking for a savior, a miracle worker, someone to magically save the jobs of management and make the owner look respectable.
If we are looking for a QB? Then Kizer is not a question mark. He is part of this team and it is in everyone's interest to make this kid all he can be. I think Hue and the Browns treated this kid like schidt. Pulling him, not giving him confidence, not giving him weapons, and giving him an unimaginative, sitting duck offense that Joe Montana couldn't succeed in.
Anyone can draft talent. All these kids have talent. Developing players, that's what the Browns suck at. Kizer is a solid athlete, and a solid young man. You don't get rid of that spirit, you build on it.
You know Gip, who are you, Hue, me, or anyone else to say that a veteran or new draftee will be his replacement? The new guy is still going to have to compete. The last time I looked, nobody gave Kizer the starting job. Whatever the level of talent we had, Kizer beat them. How do we know that Kizer won't beat out McCarron, et. al?
Hue gave him the job.
The pee wee football coach naming his bench warmer son starting QB doesnt make it right.
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The only team that Kizer has any value to at all is the Browns. The Browns QB lineup should be 1 - Vet FA who plays now, 2 - Kizer if he earns the spot, 3 - 2018 1st or 4th draft pick QB who is supposed to sit unless there is no other choice.
Gordon is the best player on the team.
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Agree that we do not dump him. He does have that raw potential....but no, no reason to get rid of him. That does not mean though that we do not bring in his potential replacement.
You know Gip, who are you, Hue, me, or anyone else to say that a veteran or new draftee will be his replacement? The new guy is still going to have to compete. The last time I looked, nobody gave Kizer the starting job. Whatever the level of talent we had, Kizer beat them. How do we know that Kizer won't beat out McCarron, et. al?
Here is what bothers me about this schidt pile. At QB, we aren't looking for a QB, we are looking for a savior, a miracle worker, someone to magically save the jobs of management and make the owner look respectable.
If we are looking for a QB? Then Kizer is not a question mark. He is part of this team and it is in everyone's interest to make this kid all he can be. I think Hue and the Browns treated this kid like schidt. Pulling him, not giving him confidence, not giving him weapons, and giving him an unimaginative, sitting duck offense that Joe Montana couldn't succeed in.
Anyone can draft talent. All these kids have talent. Developing players, that's what the Browns suck at. Kizer is a solid athlete, and a solid young man. You don't get rid of that spirit, you build on it.
You know Gip, who are you, Hue, me, or anyone else to say that a veteran or new draftee will be his replacement? The new guy is still going to have to compete. The last time I looked, nobody gave Kizer the starting job. Whatever the level of talent we had, Kizer beat them. How do we know that Kizer won't beat out McCarron, et. al?
Here is what bothers me about this schidt pile. At QB, we aren't looking for a QB, we are looking for a savior, a miracle worker, someone to magically save the jobs of management and make the owner look respectable.
If we are looking for a QB? Then Kizer is not a question mark. He is part of this team and it is in everyone's interest to make this kid all he can be. I think Hue and the Browns treated this kid like schidt. Pulling him, not giving him confidence, not giving him weapons, and giving him an unimaginative, sitting duck offense that Joe Montana couldn't succeed in.
Anyone can draft talent. All these kids have talent. Developing players, that's what the Browns suck at. Kizer is a solid athlete, and a solid young man. You don't get rid of that spirit, you build on it.
Yea....that is a great theory....that it is the Browns that suck at developing QBs....that it is just the Browns that are the problem. If only these boys had gone somewhere else they would have all been successful QBs elsewhere.
Only problem with that theory is that when all these QBs we have taken have gone elsewhere....they have sucked worse than the did here.
Nevertheless...the Browns WERE at fault: they were at fault for selecting all these crap arsebags in the first place. They HAVE sucked at selecting talent...not necessarily at developing it. Some talent is never "developable". Don't know yet about Kizer. But based on evidence....I for one am not really willing to just hand the future over to this 0-15 guy at this point.
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Hey guys, first post and life long Raider fan here. I applaud the Browns for sticking with Gordon and the way he is humbly dedicated to the team. I hope he retires a Brown.
I wanted to pop in and offer my input to you guys and to be honest you are not that far of. Some things I would consider:
Sign McCarron and by all means keep Kizer, but stash as the #2 and let him settle down from 2017.
Miami just tagged Landry. Make a serious run at him ( you got cap, use it now $15 - $16 mil per annum), send Miami your #4 this year and next yrs first.You have all those second rnd picks to make up for the loss of #4. Landry on one side, Gordon on the other (drool)
Sign Gordon, I believe he would sign for a reasonable amount
Draft Barkley #1
Good luck on the season
Hey guys, first post and life long Raider fan here. I applaud the Browns for sticking with Gordon and the way he is humbly dedicated to the team. I hope he retires a Brown.
I wanted to pop in and offer my input to you guys and to be honest you are not that far of. Some things I would consider:
Sign McCarron and by all means keep Kizer, but stash as the #2 and let him settle down from 2017.
Miami just tagged Landry. Make a serious run at him ( you got cap, use it now $15 - $16 mil per annum), send Miami your #4 this year and next yrs first.You have all those second rnd picks to make up for the loss of #4. Landry on one side, Gordon on the other (drool)
Sign Gordon, I believe he would sign for a reasonable amount
Draft Barkley #1
Good luck on the season
Uh...NO. If sending all that for Landry is such a good deal...they why don't you go to your Raider board and suggest that they give 2 first round picks up for Jarvis Landry. And see how fast your fellow Raiders fans put you in a Black Hole you would never escape from (along with your team)
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The only team that Kizer has any value to at all is the Browns. The Browns QB lineup should be 1 - Vet FA who plays now, 2 - Kizer if he earns the spot, 3 - 2018 1st or 4th draft pick QB who is supposed to sit unless there is no other choice.
Gordon is the best player on the team.
The only team that Kizer has any value to at all is the Browns. The Browns QB lineup should be 1 - Vet FA who plays now, 2 - Kizer if he earns the spot, 3 - 2018 1st or 4th draft pick QB who is supposed to sit unless there is no other choice.
Gordon is the best player on the team.
Or put the rookie at #2 and Kizer #3.....but sure....at least let the rookie and Kizer have a competition for the backup position.
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The only team that Kizer has any value to at all is the Browns. The Browns QB lineup should be 1 - Vet FA who plays now, 2 - Kizer if he earns the spot, 3 - 2018 1st or 4th draft pick QB who is supposed to sit unless there is no other choice.
Gordon is the best player on the team.
Or put the rookie at #2 and Kizer #3.....but sure....at least let the rookie and Kizer have a competition for the backup position.
Or put the rookie at #2 and Kizer #3.....but sure....at least let the rookie and Kizer have a competition for the backup position.
Strangly Kizer now has some real NFL in the trenches actual experience and maybe with a quarterback guru and many reps he might improve......a good draft will help.
ALSO 2018 is a rebuilding year, I was hoping for better in 2016 and 2017, "once bitten twice shy" so "twice bitten ???".
Oh boo, Gordon might be pro bowl material as long as he plays 16 games.
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
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So if I'm the Browns, I offer Josh something semi-decent, with a lot of *** on it. Plenty of incentives based on # of catches, TDs, over 1,000 yards receiving. But if you get busted again, the contract voids. If he returns to Pro Bowl form, we can always franchise him next year. That's the scary thought- because that $16 million would be guaranteed regardless.
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So if I'm the Browns, I offer Josh something semi-decent, with a lot of *** on it. Plenty of incentives based on # of catches, TDs, over 1,000 yards receiving. But if you get busted again, the contract voids. If he returns to Pro Bowl form, we can always franchise him next year. That's the scary thought- because that $16 million would be guaranteed regardless.
So if I'm the Browns, I offer Josh something semi-decent, with a lot of *** on it. Plenty of incentives based on # of catches, TDs, over 1,000 yards receiving. But if you get busted again, the contract voids. If he returns to Pro Bowl form, we can always franchise him next year. That's the scary thought- because that $16 million would be guaranteed regardless.
Question, is the $16 million guaranteed if he tests positive or screws up the conditions of his substance abuse program and gets suspended again? (if he's franchised)
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Or put the rookie at #2 and Kizer #3.....but sure....at least let the rookie and Kizer have a competition for the backup position.
Strangly Kizer now has some real NFL in the trenches actual experience and maybe with a quarterback guru and many reps he might improve......a good draft will help.
ALSO 2018 is a rebuilding year, I was hoping for better in 2016 and 2017, "once bitten twice shy" so "twice bitten ???".
Oh boo, Gordon might be pro bowl material as long as he plays 16 games.
Strangly Kizer now has some real NFL in the trenches actual experience and maybe with a quarterback guru and many reps he might improve......a good draft will help.
ALSO 2018 is a rebuilding year, I was hoping for better in 2016 and 2017, "once bitten twice shy" so "twice bitten ???".
Oh boo, Gordon might be pro bowl material as long as he plays 16 games.
I definitely don't trade Kizer. We put in a LOT of time with him and we suffered through a tough season. I don't want to do the dirty work and then have another team reap benefits. It might be a long shot for Kizer to ever be good, but he does possess the physical traits everybody is looking for, and he is a hard worker.
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https://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap000000917082/article/wideout-josh-gordon-under-browns-control-as-erfa media--everybody must be stoned..read second to last paragraph from bottom.
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https://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap000000917082/article/wideout-josh-gordon-under-browns-control-as-erfa media--everybody must be stoned..read second to last paragraph from bottom.
https://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap000000917082/article/wideout-josh-gordon-under-browns-control-as-erfa media--everybody must be stoned..read second to last paragraph from bottom.
"Due to Gordon's suspensions for violation of the league's substance-abuse policy, he's not slated to reach unrestricted free agency until after the 2020 season -- doubling the customary four-year waiting period for second-round draft picks."
Very interesting.
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Well assuming that he hasn't taken much of a beating the last few years he should be in good condition for quite a while, at least through 2020 right?
WSS
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Hey guys, first post and life long Raider fan here. I applaud the Browns for sticking with Gordon and the way he is humbly dedicated to the team. I hope he retires a Brown.
I wanted to pop in and offer my input to you guys and to be honest you are not that far of. Some things I would consider:
Sign McCarron and by all means keep Kizer, but stash as the #2 and let him settle down from 2017.
Miami just tagged Landry. Make a serious run at him ( you got cap, use it now $15 - $16 mil per annum), send Miami your #4 this year and next yrs first.You have all those second rnd picks to make up for the loss of #4. Landry on one side, Gordon on the other (drool)
Sign Gordon, I believe he would sign for a reasonable amount
Draft Barkley #1
Good luck on the season
Hey guys, first post and life long Raider fan here. I applaud the Browns for sticking with Gordon and the way he is humbly dedicated to the team. I hope he retires a Brown.
I wanted to pop in and offer my input to you guys and to be honest you are not that far of. Some things I would consider:
Sign McCarron and by all means keep Kizer, but stash as the #2 and let him settle down from 2017.
Miami just tagged Landry. Make a serious run at him ( you got cap, use it now $15 - $16 mil per annum), send Miami your #4 this year and next yrs first.You have all those second rnd picks to make up for the loss of #4. Landry on one side, Gordon on the other (drool)
Sign Gordon, I believe he would sign for a reasonable amount
Draft Barkley #1
Good luck on the season
Yeah or none of that. Especially the Landry part.
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So if I'm the Browns, I offer Josh something semi-decent, with a lot of *** on it. Plenty of incentives based on # of catches, TDs, over 1,000 yards receiving. But if you get busted again, the contract voids. If he returns to Pro Bowl form, we can always franchise him next year. That's the scary thought- because that $16 million would be guaranteed regardless.
Question, is the $16 million guaranteed if he tests positive or screws up the conditions of his substance abuse program and gets suspended again? (if he's franchised)
Question, is the $16 million guaranteed if he tests positive or screws up the conditions of his substance abuse program and gets suspended again? (if he's franchised)
Good question, and I don't thing it's ever come up before. It has to be in the fine print somewhere in the collective bargaining agreement. Looks like that money would be guaranteed regardless. So, if Josh goes on to have a stellar season this year, it would greatly behoove the Browns to work out a long term deal first- that would void the rest of the contract in the event he gets suspended again.
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