President Trump would have ran into the school to save the children even without a weapon
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I work in education. Anyone actually had the training? I have. Couple different kinds actually: hide, fight, run, etc.
Well-intentioned or not, what he is saying goes directly against training. That's my issue.
Ask the custodian at Virginia Tech. Wait, you can't. He's dead. He heard shots and ran upstairs right into the line of fire. Rest in peace.
As for fighting. Let's take a peek into the bathroom at Sandy Hook. The killer has two groups cornered. Each group has a teacher and students. The one teacher pushes the students and they all break for the door. The other huddles with students in the corner. The ones who made the break lived. The others did not. Rest in peace. There are different ways of fighting back...
I hear you all though. We all want to think that we could make a difference. I distinctly remember after one training, one of the maintenance fellas asked, "so, what do we do when we run in to intervene?" The trainer said: "I just told you not to do that."
I've gotta tell you I don't give a fu¢k what your trainer says. I'm at Sandy Hook? I attempt to stop it even if I personally die because I'd rather be dead than know I, a grown man, cowered in a closet while six year olds are getting murdered.
I've gotta tell you I don't give a fu¢k what your trainer says. I'm at Sandy Hook? I attempt to stop it even if I personally die because I'd rather be dead than know I, a grown man, cowered in a closet while six year olds are getting murdered.
Fair enough.
Let's play that out. He shoots you next. Now all the six-year olds are left to their own devices with no adult leadership to try to save them. They all die too.
Exactly what did you accomplish then if its ultimately supposed to be about the kids?
Perhaps you should have barricaded in your room with as many students as you could grab. Perhaps you should have led them to safety out a side door or window when the chance presented itself.
Discretion is the better part of valor. That is the reason for the training. To give you a chance to think it out beforehand so that you don't instinctively go Rambo when you should be considering all your alternatives.
That said...if you get the chance like the coach in the example above, hit with everything you got and may God Bless You. Sometimes that is truly the only option.
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I've gotta tell you I don't give a fu¢k what your trainer says. I'm at Sandy Hook? I attempt to stop it even if I personally die because I'd rather be dead than know I, a grown man, cowered in a closet while six year olds are getting murdered.
Fair enough.
Let's play that out. He shoots you next. Now all the six-year olds are left to their own devices with no adult leadership to try to save them. They all die too.
Exactly what did you accomplish then if its ultimately supposed to be about the kids?
Perhaps you should have barricaded in your room with as many students as you could grab. Perhaps you should have led them to safety out a side door or window when the chance presented itself.
Discretion is the better part of valor. That is the reason for the training. To give you a chance to think it out beforehand so that you don't instinctively go Rambo when you should be considering all your alternatives.
That said...if you get the chance like the coach in the example above, hit with everything you got and may God Bless You. Sometimes that is truly the only option.
Fair enough.
Let's play that out. He shoots you next. Now all the six-year olds are left to their own devices with no adult leadership to try to save them. They all die too.
Exactly what did you accomplish then if its ultimately supposed to be about the kids?
Perhaps you should have barricaded in your room with as many students as you could grab. Perhaps you should have led them to safety out a side door or window when the chance presented itself.
Discretion is the better part of valor. That is the reason for the training. To give you a chance to think it out beforehand so that you don't instinctively go Rambo when you should be considering all your alternatives.
That said...if you get the chance like the coach in the example above, hit with everything you got and may God Bless You. Sometimes that is truly the only option.
I'm not a teacher. So they're no worse off then they were if I get shot trying to save them and if it bought them any time to escape it's a win.
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Fair enough.
Let's play that out. He shoots you next. Now all the six-year olds are left to their own devices with no adult leadership to try to save them. They all die too.
Exactly what did you accomplish then if its ultimately supposed to be about the kids?
Perhaps you should have barricaded in your room with as many students as you could grab. Perhaps you should have led them to safety out a side door or window when the chance presented itself.
Discretion is the better part of valor. That is the reason for the training. To give you a chance to think it out beforehand so that you don't instinctively go Rambo when you should be considering all your alternatives.
That said...if you get the chance like the coach in the example above, hit with everything you got and may God Bless You. Sometimes that is truly the only option.
I'm not a teacher. So they're no worse off then they were if I get shot trying to save them and if it bought them any time to escape it's a win.
I'm not a teacher. So they're no worse off then they were if I get shot trying to save them and if it bought them any time to escape it's a win.
Again, fair enough. The custodian at VATECH was not a teacher either and did exactly as you say.
So, following that model, what if you buy them no time and get mown down immediately like him?
Not a win, just another casualty. No effect, just one more dead person.
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Then I can die without regret knowing that I did what I could to try and save kids. What you are saying reeks of cowardice to me. I've had a good life. I'm only 38 now not as old as some of the posters here but old enough to have experienced everything kids are getting robbed of if they get shot down by a maniac.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
I work in education. Anyone actually had the training? I have. Couple different kinds actually: hide, fight, run, etc.
Well-intentioned or not, what he is saying goes directly against training. That's my issue.
Ask the custodian at Virginia Tech. Wait, you can't. He's dead. He heard shots and ran upstairs right into the line of fire. Rest in peace.
As for fighting. Let's take a peek into the bathroom at Sandy Hook. The killer has two groups cornered. Each group has a teacher and students. The one teacher pushes the students and they all break for the door. The other huddles with students in the corner. The ones who made the break lived. The others did not. Rest in peace. There are different ways of fighting back...
I hear you all though. We all want to think that we could make a difference. I distinctly remember after one training, one of the maintenance fellas asked, "so, what do we do when we run in to intervene?" The trainer said: "I just told you not to do that."
I work in education. Anyone actually had the training? I have. Couple different kinds actually: hide, fight, run, etc.
Well-intentioned or not, what he is saying goes directly against training. That's my issue.
Ask the custodian at Virginia Tech. Wait, you can't. He's dead. He heard shots and ran upstairs right into the line of fire. Rest in peace.
As for fighting. Let's take a peek into the bathroom at Sandy Hook. The killer has two groups cornered. Each group has a teacher and students. The one teacher pushes the students and they all break for the door. The other huddles with students in the corner. The ones who made the break lived. The others did not. Rest in peace. There are different ways of fighting back...
I hear you all though. We all want to think that we could make a difference. I distinctly remember after one training, one of the maintenance fellas asked, "so, what do we do when we run in to intervene?" The trainer said: "I just told you not to do that."
Training by who? don't help kids being murdered? WTF ? who trained you? the coward of broward? Every situation is different. There is no training that fits all. Look at Broward. My ccw instructor was 4 1/2 years as a special forces weapons expert. I talked about wanting to take an advanced ccw class or two - he teaches them now. I asked him about Sandy Hook - he said how do you outrun bullets? Hide from a murdered too close with nowhere to hide?
The problem is gun free zones. A murderer knows he has a free zone to murder with no danger to himself. Sick stuff.
Seriously - the kids who DID hide, died? That is your trainer's training?
https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/22/us/illinois-teacher-hero/index.html
she was trained. She had a better trainer than you.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/teacher-school-took-down-gunman-recently-trained-active-shooters/
Maybe if the teacher who ran with students, had tackled the murderer... the other kids may have lived, too.
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I can assure you that no one knows how they will react in a situation like this. I've seen big muscular guys freeze up in combat and small skinny guys show no fear. It's a flight or fight that happens in an instant.
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Yeah. That is not news. I covered all that in my initial post
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Yeah. That is not news. I covered all that in my initial post
Yeah. That is not news. I covered all that in my initial post
So you did.
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Trump is no coward - and he wasn't being a fool when he said that.
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Then I can die without regret knowing that I did what I could to try and save kids. What you are saying reeks of cowardice to me. I've had a good life. I'm only 38 now not as old as some of the posters here but old enough to have experienced everything kids are getting robbed of if they get shot down by a maniac.
Then I can die without regret knowing that I did what I could to try and save kids. What you are saying reeks of cowardice to me. I've had a good life. I'm only 38 now not as old as some of the posters here but old enough to have experienced everything kids are getting robbed of if they get shot down by a maniac.
Take your hero complex to your grave then.
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I work in education. Anyone actually had the training? I have. Couple different kinds actually: hide, fight, run, etc.
Well-intentioned or not, what he is saying goes directly against training. That's my issue.
Ask the custodian at Virginia Tech. Wait, you can't. He's dead. He heard shots and ran upstairs right into the line of fire. Rest in peace.
As for fighting. Let's take a peek into the bathroom at Sandy Hook. The killer has two groups cornered. Each group has a teacher and students. The one teacher pushes the students and they all break for the door. The other huddles with students in the corner. The ones who made the break lived. The others did not. Rest in peace. There are different ways of fighting back...
I hear you all though. We all want to think that we could make a difference. I distinctly remember after one training, one of the maintenance fellas asked, "so, what do we do when we run in to intervene?" The trainer said: "I just told you not to do that."
Training by who? don't help kids being murdered? WTF ? who trained you? the coward of broward? Every situation is different. There is no training that fits all. Look at Broward. My ccw instructor was 4 1/2 years as a special forces weapons expert. I talked about wanting to take an advanced ccw class or two - he teaches them now. I asked him about Sandy Hook - he said how do you outrun bullets? Hide from a murdered too close with nowhere to hide?
The problem is gun free zones. A murderer knows he has a free zone to murder with no danger to himself. Sick stuff.
Seriously - the kids who DID hide, died? That is your trainer's training?
https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/22/us/illinois-teacher-hero/index.html
she was trained. She had a better trainer than you.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/teacher-school-took-down-gunman-recently-trained-active-shooters/
Maybe if the teacher who ran with students, had tackled the murderer... the other kids may have lived, too.
Training by who? don't help kids being murdered? WTF ? who trained you? the coward of broward? Every situation is different. There is no training that fits all. Look at Broward. My ccw instructor was 4 1/2 years as a special forces weapons expert. I talked about wanting to take an advanced ccw class or two - he teaches them now. I asked him about Sandy Hook - he said how do you outrun bullets? Hide from a murdered too close with nowhere to hide?
The problem is gun free zones. A murderer knows he has a free zone to murder with no danger to himself. Sick stuff.
Seriously - the kids who DID hide, died? That is your trainer's training?
https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/22/us/illinois-teacher-hero/index.html
she was trained. She had a better trainer than you.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/teacher-school-took-down-gunman-recently-trained-active-shooters/
Maybe if the teacher who ran with students, had tackled the murderer... the other kids may have lived, too.
Who cares what you "think"?
The training that I had broke down the major mass killings point by point, death by death, as they happened, examining the blueprints of the buildings involved and the timing of the arrival of security forces as it happened.
We considered each action by the killers and victims and problematized them so that we could keep ourselves and each other alive. We actually barricaded ourselves in a room that had serious security flaws and armed ourselves with anything we could to plan our counterattack if necessary. We ran a scenario where we encountered the killer and hit him with, well, wiffle balls, pretending they were heavier objects
Your fantasies were not included. Go figure. The first thing they said was not "run down the hall and impale yourself on a bullet." Again, go figure.
You He-Men are ridiculous. The only thing to do is run in and die like Daddy Trump says. Save 'em all or die, just like your moral absolutism (look that up if you have to).
My trainers were real men who had been there, not pathetic keyboard heroes addicted to whining...like yourself.
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bs. Letting some kids die to save yourself is your "training" ? pitiful. Good think Navy Seals and Marines are not trained to lay down and save yourself and let others just die. You said you were trained to run, and the other kids could just die.
Have a nice day. I can't imagine you ever saving anybody, ever. Your "here's why it pays to be a coward" attitude surely wasn't in your training.
no principles, you got nothin.
You're in a gymnasium - full of kids. a door pops open and a gunman starts shooting.
oh, your training says to get all the entire gym in a room and blockade the door, and find pencils and erasers to use as weapons "if necessary".
Before the gunman murders a bunch of kids? "but it's okay because you saved all the others that were lucky they didn't get murdered and made it out into the hallway"
egad, that's a disgrace. You tackle the murdered and keep him from shooting anybody, hopefully. Exactly what my ccw instructor told me. "how you going to outrun bullets? How do you hide when there is no place to hide? "
who were your trainers? the local officials from the democratic socialist party?
yeah, you be standing outside, behind a wall, waiting for somebody else to go save kids.
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Then I can die without regret knowing that I did what I could to try and save kids. What you are saying reeks of cowardice to me. I've had a good life. I'm only 38 now not as old as some of the posters here but old enough to have experienced everything kids are getting robbed of if they get shot down by a maniac.
Take your hero complex to your grave then.
Take your hero complex to your grave then.
Hide in a closet, then, and hope you can look yourself in the mirror for the rest of your hopefully long life.
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You realize you're talking down to two veterans right? Well done.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
About a year ago, my employer made it mandatory that all of us took ALICE training (active shooter).
Retaliation against an attacker was part of the training, that is the “Counter” part of the acronym. . .
Alert
Lockdown
Inform
Counter
Evacuate
-
About a year ago, my employer made it mandatory that all of us took ALICE training (active shooter).
Retaliation against an attacker was part of the training, that is the “Counter” part of the acronym. . .
Alert
Lockdown
Inform
Counter
Evacuate
About a year ago, my employer made it mandatory that all of us took ALICE training (active shooter).
Retaliation against an attacker was part of the training, that is the “Counter” part of the acronym. . .
Alert
Lockdown
Inform
Counter
Evacuate
sounds like great training, sober poet had new age liberal "run, hide, save yourself while a bunch of kids die...." training
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"”If every German Jew and anti-Nazi had possessed a Mauser rifle, twenty rounds and the will to use it, Adolf Hitler would be a footnote to the history of the Weimar Republic.”
— Aaron Zelman, 1995 -
I work in education. Anyone actually had the training? I have. Couple different kinds actually: hide, fight, run, etc.
Well-intentioned or not, what he is saying goes directly against training. That's my issue.
Ask the custodian at Virginia Tech. Wait, you can't. He's dead. He heard shots and ran upstairs right into the line of fire. Rest in peace.
As for fighting. Let's take a peek into the bathroom at Sandy Hook. The killer has two groups cornered. Each group has a teacher and students. The one teacher pushes the students and they all break for the door. The other huddles with students in the corner. The ones who made the break lived. The others did not. Rest in peace. There are different ways of fighting back...
I hear you all though. We all want to think that we could make a difference. I distinctly remember after one training, one of the maintenance fellas asked, "so, what do we do when we run in to intervene?" The trainer said: "I just told you not to do that."
I work in education. Anyone actually had the training? I have. Couple different kinds actually: hide, fight, run, etc.
Well-intentioned or not, what he is saying goes directly against training. That's my issue.
Ask the custodian at Virginia Tech. Wait, you can't. He's dead. He heard shots and ran upstairs right into the line of fire. Rest in peace.
As for fighting. Let's take a peek into the bathroom at Sandy Hook. The killer has two groups cornered. Each group has a teacher and students. The one teacher pushes the students and they all break for the door. The other huddles with students in the corner. The ones who made the break lived. The others did not. Rest in peace. There are different ways of fighting back...
I hear you all though. We all want to think that we could make a difference. I distinctly remember after one training, one of the maintenance fellas asked, "so, what do we do when we run in to intervene?" The trainer said: "I just told you not to do that."
My son is a middle school teacher/coach. Last fall a student came running in from the parking lot outside yelling that a girl was being abducted in the parking lot. My son, who has 20 years experience in martial arts, immediately ran for the door to the parking lot even though "policy" called for him to get the security guard inside about 70 yds. away. As he passed the kid he yelled at him to go get the security guard while he himself sprinted outside. As it turned out the girl was just arguing with someone in a car and yelled that he was abducting her just to get attention. Nonetheless the principal thanked him for his quick thinking and action to stop what had been reported instead of following "policy". It got around to the rest of the staff very quickly and suddenly he was a "hero" despite him saying that with his own personal training there was no other choice but to intervene.
Sometimes you have to be true to yourself and do what you think your experience tells you that you can do even if it might be against "policy". I am very proud of what he did even though he had the potential of being in harms way without any weapon other than his hands and feet.
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