On the trade block
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Maybe I am wrong, it has happened once in my lifetime (LOL JUST KIDDING), but I just don't understand people's fascination with draft picks.
A lot of times people say I would rather have this pick vs this player so we can draft so and so. It all boils down to me to known production vs unknown.
A lot of people when talking about draft picks say I would rather have this pick vs good NFL player.
Since Landry has been the most talked about in this thread, let's use him. Is there ANY player in 2nd or 3rd round that you really think can give you that production? Yes money comes into as well, but I see production already shown in the league vs a 50% chance of a different prospect.
Now sometimes the chance at the prospect is better than production, as I wouldn't think about anything close to 2 1sts and 2 2nds for Foles, but I certainly would do these (as compared to the draft choice there)
1- Carson Wentz over Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Allen
4- Patrick Peterson over Minkah or Gurley over Barkley
And so on and so forth.
But like I said, I could be wrong or could just be my style. I just think proven beats unproven EVERY time.
I dont know the injury prognosis for the 4 guys in the original message, or contract info, but with their talent, I would certainly trade 2s, 3s, and 4s for those guys
Maybe I am wrong, it has happened once in my lifetime (LOL JUST KIDDING), but I just don't understand people's fascination with draft picks.
A lot of times people say I would rather have this pick vs this player so we can draft so and so. It all boils down to me to known production vs unknown.
A lot of people when talking about draft picks say I would rather have this pick vs good NFL player.
Since Landry has been the most talked about in this thread, let's use him. Is there ANY player in 2nd or 3rd round that you really think can give you that production? Yes money comes into as well, but I see production already shown in the league vs a 50% chance of a different prospect.
Now sometimes the chance at the prospect is better than production, as I wouldn't think about anything close to 2 1sts and 2 2nds for Foles, but I certainly would do these (as compared to the draft choice there)
1- Carson Wentz over Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Allen
4- Patrick Peterson over Minkah or Gurley over Barkley
And so on and so forth.
But like I said, I could be wrong or could just be my style. I just think proven beats unproven EVERY time.
I dont know the injury prognosis for the 4 guys in the original message, or contract info, but with their talent, I would certainly trade 2s, 3s, and 4s for those guys
With the salary cap, you NEED to be successful drafting players in order to compete. Or do whatever the Patriots are doing...
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Maybe I am wrong, it has happened once in my lifetime (LOL JUST KIDDING), but I just don't understand people's fascination with draft picks.
A lot of times people say I would rather have this pick vs this player so we can draft so and so. It all boils down to me to known production vs unknown.
A lot of people when talking about draft picks say I would rather have this pick vs good NFL player.
Since Landry has been the most talked about in this thread, let's use him. Is there ANY player in 2nd or 3rd round that you really think can give you that production? Yes money comes into as well, but I see production already shown in the league vs a 50% chance of a different prospect.
Now sometimes the chance at the prospect is better than production, as I wouldn't think about anything close to 2 1sts and 2 2nds for Foles, but I certainly would do these (as compared to the draft choice there)
1- Carson Wentz over Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Allen
4- Patrick Peterson over Minkah or Gurley over Barkley
And so on and so forth.
But like I said, I could be wrong or could just be my style. I just think proven beats unproven EVERY time.
I dont know the injury prognosis for the 4 guys in the original message, or contract info, but with their talent, I would certainly trade 2s, 3s, and 4s for those guys
With the salary cap, you NEED to be successful drafting players in order to compete. Or do whatever the Patriots are doing...
With the salary cap, you NEED to be successful drafting players on order to compete. Or do whatever the Patriots are doing...
I'm not saying you trade every pick for players, but you could get pro bowler players for mid rounder pick . I have no problem drafting guys, but if available and heathly and not way overpriced , sign me up.
So let's ask it this way: who would you trade for with each pick (realistic)?
1-
4-
33-
35-
63-
65-
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We really shouldn't be too concerned about large contracts. We have tons of cap and a young team
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Maybe I am wrong, it has happened once in my lifetime (LOL JUST KIDDING), but I just don't understand people's fascination with draft picks.
A lot of times people say I would rather have this pick vs this player so we can draft so and so. It all boils down to me to known production vs unknown.
A lot of people when talking about draft picks say I would rather have this pick vs good NFL player.
Since Landry has been the most talked about in this thread, let's use him. Is there ANY player in 2nd or 3rd round that you really think can give you that production? Yes money comes into as well, but I see production already shown in the league vs a 50% chance of a different prospect.
Now sometimes the chance at the prospect is better than production, as I wouldn't think about anything close to 2 1sts and 2 2nds for Foles, but I certainly would do these (as compared to the draft choice there)
1- Carson Wentz over Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Allen
4- Patrick Peterson over Minkah or Gurley over Barkley
And so on and so forth.
But like I said, I could be wrong or could just be my style. I just think proven beats unproven EVERY time.
I dont know the injury prognosis for the 4 guys in the original message, or contract info, but with their talent, I would certainly trade 2s, 3s, and 4s for those guys
Maybe I am wrong, it has happened once in my lifetime (LOL JUST KIDDING), but I just don't understand people's fascination with draft picks.
A lot of times people say I would rather have this pick vs this player so we can draft so and so. It all boils down to me to known production vs unknown.
A lot of people when talking about draft picks say I would rather have this pick vs good NFL player.
Since Landry has been the most talked about in this thread, let's use him. Is there ANY player in 2nd or 3rd round that you really think can give you that production? Yes money comes into as well, but I see production already shown in the league vs a 50% chance of a different prospect.
Now sometimes the chance at the prospect is better than production, as I wouldn't think about anything close to 2 1sts and 2 2nds for Foles, but I certainly would do these (as compared to the draft choice there)
1- Carson Wentz over Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Allen
4- Patrick Peterson over Minkah or Gurley over Barkley
And so on and so forth.
But like I said, I could be wrong or could just be my style. I just think proven beats unproven EVERY time.
I dont know the injury prognosis for the 4 guys in the original message, or contract info, but with their talent, I would certainly trade 2s, 3s, and 4s for those guys
Great post.
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So would I....Hey, we can dream, can't we??
Mike
As I'm sure you already know, it's more than just the cost of the 3rd rounder. We'd have to agree to terms on a contract with Landry before a trade could be executed, so it's a 3rd round pick AND millions of dollars per year. And we already know free agents get over paid, ESPECIALLY if they have to go to Cleveland. I could be mistaken, but I BELIEVE Landry would have the right to negate the trade. Again...I'll double check that because I'm not sure. But, we have picks and we need money. I'm not totally in love with any of the WRs in the draft, and normally rookie WRs take a while to learn anyway. All this means we have to seriously consider making this trade for Landry. I've been saying for a while that I want Landry AND Pryor, and that could take the possibly the worst WR group at the start of the 2017 season, to one of the BEST in 2018. Let THAT resonate for a minute. Think I'm exaggerating? Josh Gordon, Jarvis Landry, Terrell Pryor, Corey Coleman is not something to scoff at, and then you throw in other positions like Duke Johnson, David Njoku, and Seth Devalve. Sold yet?
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So would I....Hey, we can dream, can't we??
Mike
As I'm sure you already know, it's more than just the cost of the 3rd rounder. We'd have to agree to terms on a contract with Landry before a trade could be executed, so it's a 3rd round pick AND millions of dollars per year. And we already know free agents get over paid, ESPECIALLY if they have to go to Cleveland. I could be mistaken, but I BELIEVE Landry would have the right to negate the trade. Again...I'll double check that because I'm not sure. But, we have picks and we need money. I'm not totally in love with any of the WRs in the draft, and normally rookie WRs take a while to learn anyway. All this means we have to seriously consider making this trade for Landry. I've been saying for a while that I want Landry AND Pryor, and that could take the possibly the worst WR group at the start of the 2017 season, to one of the BEST in 2018. Let THAT resonate for a minute. Think I'm exaggerating? Josh Gordon, Jarvis Landry, Terrell Pryor, Corey Coleman is not something to scoff at, and then you throw in other positions like Duke Johnson, David Njoku, and Seth Devalve. Sold yet?
As I'm sure you already know, it's more than just the cost of the 3rd rounder. We'd have to agree to terms on a contract with Landry before a trade could be executed, so it's a 3rd round pick AND millions of dollars per year. And we already know free agents get over paid, ESPECIALLY if they have to go to Cleveland. I could be mistaken, but I BELIEVE Landry would have the right to negate the trade. Again...I'll double check that because I'm not sure. But, we have picks and we need money. I'm not totally in love with any of the WRs in the draft, and normally rookie WRs take a while to learn anyway. All this means we have to seriously consider making this trade for Landry. I've been saying for a while that I want Landry AND Pryor, and that could take the possibly the worst WR group at the start of the 2017 season, to one of the BEST in 2018. Let THAT resonate for a minute. Think I'm exaggerating? Josh Gordon, Jarvis Landry, Terrell Pryor, Corey Coleman is not something to scoff at, and then you throw in other positions like Duke Johnson, David Njoku, and Seth Devalve. Sold yet?
No, I'm not yet sold. Here's why:
1) Gordon...We cannot count on his presence OR solid, every down effort. We can only hope.
2) Coleman...Has proven NOTHING positive. I (flat out) do NOT like this kid.
3) Landry...IS proven & would be a solid addition.
4) Pryor...We'll see
5) Duke...Needs to be utilized more often IF he improves ball security.
6) Njoku & DeValve...Njoku needs to cut down drops & both need to improve blocking.
IMHO, we'll address QB & DB, but WR remains our weak link. I trust Dorsey & staff plus Haley & Hue to address this. A BIG "We'll see".
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
Landry was franchise tagged.
Landry was franchise tagged.
It was reported on the NFL Channel that he will be granted permission to seek a trade. Here's the catch (or drop), he will cost any interested NFL franchise at least 2 first round picks plus a gigantic salary. Sounds like an interesting way to say good night...
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Landry was franchise tagged.
It was reported on the NFL Channel that he will be granted permission to seek a trade. Here's the catch (or drop), he will cost any interested NFL franchise at least 2 first round picks plus a gigantic salary. Sounds like an interesting way to say good night...
It was reported on the NFL Channel that he will be granted permission to seek a trade. Here's the catch (or drop), he will cost any interested NFL franchise at least 2 first round picks plus a gigantic salary. Sounds like an interesting way to say good night...
Sounds like a baited hook was thrown out for us and Buffalo.
EDIT: I'd take Ridley @ 4 before giving that much away for Landry. Keep #1.
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Landry was franchise tagged.
It was reported on the NFL Channel that he will be granted permission to seek a trade. Here's the catch (or drop), he will cost any interested NFL franchise at least 2 first round picks plus a gigantic salary. Sounds like an interesting way to say good night...
It was reported on the NFL Channel that he will be granted permission to seek a trade. Here's the catch (or drop), he will cost any interested NFL franchise at least 2 first round picks plus a gigantic salary. Sounds like an interesting way to say good night...
Well, I'm glad I just double-checked this - I stand corrected! I have a feeling this story is going to change more frequently Kim Kardashian; but the news seems to be a little better than what I heard this morning. Here's something I found online.
Landry has been given permission to seek and facilitate a trade from the Dolphins, Ian Rapoport of NFL Network reports.
After failing to agree to a long-term extension, the Dolphins placed a $16.2 million franchise tag on Landry last week -- but that doesn't guarantee the wideout will call Miami home come Week 1. It was initially believed that any trade for Landry would have to involve two first-round draft picks, but it has been reported that the asking price has lowered for the Dolphins. Landry is coming off an NFL-leading 112-catch season, to go along with 987 receiving yards and nine touchdowns in 16 games.
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Signing veterans is very important but you have to get these guys/re-sign them at the right time in their careers, which hasn't always been easy here. For those that thought Joe Haden wasn't the same after we gave him his dream contract extension - this happens in other places as well to guys that looked deserving of the re-commitment at the time. For example here's a cut and paste of an article I found on the Web about a guy that used to be a badass.
NY Jets release DE Muhammad Wilkerson, who disappointed after signing a big contract
Andy Vasquez, Staff Writer, Associated PressINDIANAPOLIS -- The Jets' intentions have been clear for months. But on Wednesday, they finally acted on them.
The Jets released defensive end Muhammad Wilkerson, ending months of speculation and closing the final chapter of his career with the team in disappointment.
Jets general manager Mike Maccagnan and coach Todd Bowles, speaking at the NFL Combine on Wednesday, called it a "business decision." And this was a sensible move. Wilkerson was set to count $20 million against the Jets' salary cap — far more than the struggling, former Pro Bowl defensive end was worth. By cutting him now, the Jets save $11 million in cap space.
Wilkerson, a Linden native, was a Jets' first-round pick in 2011 and became a Pro Bowler and the team's best pass rusher. The feel-good story continued when he signed a five-year, $86 million deal in the summer of 2016.
But Wilkerson underperformed on the field after signing that contract and was a disappointment and distraction off of it — getting benched repeatedly for chronic tardiness. The Jets were quick to limit the damage and move on.
They'll have to carry $9 million in dead money this season on Wilkerson's contract.
"[It] was a business decision," Bowles said. "It wasn't disciplinary at all. ... I'm disappointed for the team, I'm disappointed for him. Obviously, it didn't work out."
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Maybe I am wrong, it has happened once in my lifetime (LOL JUST KIDDING), but I just don't understand people's fascination with draft picks.
A lot of times people say I would rather have this pick vs this player so we can draft so and so. It all boils down to me to known production vs unknown.
A lot of people when talking about draft picks say I would rather have this pick vs good NFL player.
Since Landry has been the most talked about in this thread, let's use him. Is there ANY player in 2nd or 3rd round that you really think can give you that production? Yes money comes into as well, but I see production already shown in the league vs a 50% chance of a different prospect.
Now sometimes the chance at the prospect is better than production, as I wouldn't think about anything close to 2 1sts and 2 2nds for Foles, but I certainly would do these (as compared to the draft choice there)
1- Carson Wentz over Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Allen
4- Patrick Peterson over Minkah or Gurley over Barkley
And so on and so forth.
But like I said, I could be wrong or could just be my style. I just think proven beats unproven EVERY time.
I dont know the injury prognosis for the 4 guys in the original message, or contract info, but with their talent, I would certainly trade 2s, 3s, and 4s for those guys
Maybe I am wrong, it has happened once in my lifetime (LOL JUST KIDDING), but I just don't understand people's fascination with draft picks.
A lot of times people say I would rather have this pick vs this player so we can draft so and so. It all boils down to me to known production vs unknown.
A lot of people when talking about draft picks say I would rather have this pick vs good NFL player.
Since Landry has been the most talked about in this thread, let's use him. Is there ANY player in 2nd or 3rd round that you really think can give you that production? Yes money comes into as well, but I see production already shown in the league vs a 50% chance of a different prospect.
Now sometimes the chance at the prospect is better than production, as I wouldn't think about anything close to 2 1sts and 2 2nds for Foles, but I certainly would do these (as compared to the draft choice there)
1- Carson Wentz over Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Allen
4- Patrick Peterson over Minkah or Gurley over Barkley
And so on and so forth.
But like I said, I could be wrong or could just be my style. I just think proven beats unproven EVERY time.
I dont know the injury prognosis for the 4 guys in the original message, or contract info, but with their talent, I would certainly trade 2s, 3s, and 4s for those guys
You sound like a George Allen disciple. For nearly a decade the Washington Redskins did not use a first round draft pick because they always traded them for a more proven veteran. That approach had fair results. The Skins of that time did make one SB....but lost. But they were in contention most of the time for the playoffs.
The Browns of late have been the antithesis of that. Instead of the Over the Hill Gang.....they are The Not Ready for Prime Time Players due to how young this team has been.
-
Signing veterans is very important but you have to get these guys/re-sign them at the right time in their careers, which hasn't always been easy here. For those that thought Joe Haden wasn't the same after we gave him his dream contract extension - this happens in other places as well to guys that looked deserving of the re-commitment at the time. For example here's a cut and paste of an article I found on the Web about a guy that used to be a badass.
NY Jets release DE Muhammad Wilkerson, who disappointed after signing a big contract
Andy Vasquez, Staff Writer, Associated PressINDIANAPOLIS -- The Jets' intentions have been clear for months. But on Wednesday, they finally acted on them.
The Jets released defensive end Muhammad Wilkerson, ending months of speculation and closing the final chapter of his career with the team in disappointment.
Jets general manager Mike Maccagnan and coach Todd Bowles, speaking at the NFL Combine on Wednesday, called it a "business decision." And this was a sensible move. Wilkerson was set to count $20 million against the Jets' salary cap — far more than the struggling, former Pro Bowl defensive end was worth. By cutting him now, the Jets save $11 million in cap space.
Wilkerson, a Linden native, was a Jets' first-round pick in 2011 and became a Pro Bowler and the team's best pass rusher. The feel-good story continued when he signed a five-year, $86 million deal in the summer of 2016.
But Wilkerson underperformed on the field after signing that contract and was a disappointment and distraction off of it — getting benched repeatedly for chronic tardiness. The Jets were quick to limit the damage and move on.
They'll have to carry $9 million in dead money this season on Wilkerson's contract.
"[It] was a business decision," Bowles said. "It wasn't disciplinary at all. ... I'm disappointed for the team, I'm disappointed for him. Obviously, it didn't work out."
Signing veterans is very important but you have to get these guys/re-sign them at the right time in their careers, which hasn't always been easy here. For those that thought Joe Haden wasn't the same after we gave him his dream contract extension - this happens in other places as well to guys that looked deserving of the re-commitment at the time. For example here's a cut and paste of an article I found on the Web about a guy that used to be a badass.
NY Jets release DE Muhammad Wilkerson, who disappointed after signing a big contract
Andy Vasquez, Staff Writer, Associated PressINDIANAPOLIS -- The Jets' intentions have been clear for months. But on Wednesday, they finally acted on them.
The Jets released defensive end Muhammad Wilkerson, ending months of speculation and closing the final chapter of his career with the team in disappointment.
Jets general manager Mike Maccagnan and coach Todd Bowles, speaking at the NFL Combine on Wednesday, called it a "business decision." And this was a sensible move. Wilkerson was set to count $20 million against the Jets' salary cap — far more than the struggling, former Pro Bowl defensive end was worth. By cutting him now, the Jets save $11 million in cap space.
Wilkerson, a Linden native, was a Jets' first-round pick in 2011 and became a Pro Bowler and the team's best pass rusher. The feel-good story continued when he signed a five-year, $86 million deal in the summer of 2016.
But Wilkerson underperformed on the field after signing that contract and was a disappointment and distraction off of it — getting benched repeatedly for chronic tardiness. The Jets were quick to limit the damage and move on.
They'll have to carry $9 million in dead money this season on Wilkerson's contract.
"[It] was a business decision," Bowles said. "It wasn't disciplinary at all. ... I'm disappointed for the team, I'm disappointed for him. Obviously, it didn't work out."
Question.....can a guy that has been released by that be signed BEFORE the start of the Free Agency period? Like any released player usually can be?
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Signing veterans is very important but you have to get these guys/re-sign them at the right time in their careers, which hasn't always been easy here. For those that thought Joe Haden wasn't the same after we gave him his dream contract extension - this happens in other places as well to guys that looked deserving of the re-commitment at the time. For example here's a cut and paste of an article I found on the Web about a guy that used to be a badass.
NY Jets release DE Muhammad Wilkerson, who disappointed after signing a big contract
Andy Vasquez, Staff Writer, Associated PressINDIANAPOLIS -- The Jets' intentions have been clear for months. But on Wednesday, they finally acted on them.
The Jets released defensive end Muhammad Wilkerson, ending months of speculation and closing the final chapter of his career with the team in disappointment.
Jets general manager Mike Maccagnan and coach Todd Bowles, speaking at the NFL Combine on Wednesday, called it a "business decision." And this was a sensible move. Wilkerson was set to count $20 million against the Jets' salary cap — far more than the struggling, former Pro Bowl defensive end was worth. By cutting him now, the Jets save $11 million in cap space.
Wilkerson, a Linden native, was a Jets' first-round pick in 2011 and became a Pro Bowler and the team's best pass rusher. The feel-good story continued when he signed a five-year, $86 million deal in the summer of 2016.
But Wilkerson underperformed on the field after signing that contract and was a disappointment and distraction off of it — getting benched repeatedly for chronic tardiness. The Jets were quick to limit the damage and move on.
They'll have to carry $9 million in dead money this season on Wilkerson's contract.
"[It] was a business decision," Bowles said. "It wasn't disciplinary at all. ... I'm disappointed for the team, I'm disappointed for him. Obviously, it didn't work out."
Question.....can a guy that has been released by that be signed BEFORE the start of the Free Agency period? Like any released player usually can be?
Question.....can a guy that has been released by that be signed BEFORE the start of the Free Agency period? Like any released player usually can be?
I think so Gips because we just signed a WR the other day,
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Maybe I am wrong, it has happened once in my lifetime (LOL JUST KIDDING), but I just don't understand people's fascination with draft picks.
A lot of times people say I would rather have this pick vs this player so we can draft so and so. It all boils down to me to known production vs unknown.
A lot of people when talking about draft picks say I would rather have this pick vs good NFL player.
Since Landry has been the most talked about in this thread, let's use him. Is there ANY player in 2nd or 3rd round that you really think can give you that production? Yes money comes into as well, but I see production already shown in the league vs a 50% chance of a different prospect.
Now sometimes the chance at the prospect is better than production, as I wouldn't think about anything close to 2 1sts and 2 2nds for Foles, but I certainly would do these (as compared to the draft choice there)
1- Carson Wentz over Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Allen
4- Patrick Peterson over Minkah or Gurley over Barkley
And so on and so forth.
But like I said, I could be wrong or could just be my style. I just think proven beats unproven EVERY time.
I dont know the injury prognosis for the 4 guys in the original message, or contract info, but with their talent, I would certainly trade 2s, 3s, and 4s for those guys
You sound like a George Allen disciple. For nearly a decade the Washington Redskins did not use a first round draft pick because they always traded them for a more proven veteran. That approach had fair results. The Skins of that time did make one SB....but lost. But they were in contention most of the time for the playoffs.
The Browns of late have been the antithesis of that. Instead of the Over the Hill Gang.....they are The Not Ready for Prime Time Players due to how young this team has been.
You sound like a George Allen disciple. For nearly a decade the Washington Redskins did not use a first round draft pick because they always traded them for a more proven veteran. That approach had fair results. The Skins of that time did make one SB....but lost. But they were in contention most of the time for the playoffs.
The Browns of late have been the antithesis of that. Instead of the Over the Hill Gang.....they are The Not Ready for Prime Time Players due to how young this team has been.
I never once said I would trade this or that pick. But apparently you are one of these guys who thinks draft picks are more valuable than proven players. I'll tell you what, I know that they would never happen, but I would guarantee if I took the 5 1st 2 rounds and traded them for someone at the same position, it would look better for the team.
It's the EXACT reason I have went back and forth with Pog about Barkley. He hasn't proven ANYTHING as of now, and Gurley has.
Would I trade 1 for Wentz, you betcha. For Goff, yep. For Trubisky, nope. For Mahomes, no not even close as haven't seen anything from him. Watson, no.
Would I trade 4 for Gurley, everyday. Zeke, maybe. Patrick Peterson, uh huh, Von, Mack, Bosa, ding ding we have a winner.
There is a BIG difference to me in saying trading 1s vs 2s and lower. Just for a round number, say 25% of all those picks work out, yes probably way lower. 10 picks Right? So 2.5 players, where I can take them and get proven production.
If it were me, I'm sure I would make way more mistakes than good moves, but if Sherman, Thomas, Landry, and Honey Badger were presented for 64, 65, etc in jumping on it
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As I'm sure you already know, it's more than just the cost of the 3rd rounder. We'd have to agree to terms on a contract with Landry before a trade could be executed, so it's a 3rd round pick AND millions of dollars per year. And we already know free agents get over paid, ESPECIALLY if they have to go to Cleveland. I could be mistaken, but I BELIEVE Landry would have the right to negate the trade. Again...I'll double check that because I'm not sure. But, we have picks and we need money. I'm not totally in love with any of the WRs in the draft, and normally rookie WRs take a while to learn anyway. All this means we have to seriously consider making this trade for Landry. I've been saying for a while that I want Landry AND Pryor, and that could take the possibly the worst WR group at the start of the 2017 season, to one of the BEST in 2018. Let THAT resonate for a minute. Think I'm exaggerating? Josh Gordon, Jarvis Landry, Terrell Pryor, Corey Coleman is not something to scoff at, and then you throw in other positions like Duke Johnson, David Njoku, and Seth Devalve. Sold yet?
No, I'm not yet sold. Here's why:
1) Gordon...We cannot count on his presence OR solid, every down effort. We can only hope.
2) Coleman...Has proven NOTHING positive. I (flat out) do NOT like this kid.
3) Landry...IS proven & would be a solid addition.
4) Pryor...We'll see
5) Duke...Needs to be utilized more often IF he improves ball security.
6) Njoku & DeValve...Njoku needs to cut down drops & both need to improve blocking.
IMHO, we'll address QB & DB, but WR remains our weak link. I trust Dorsey & staff plus Haley & Hue to address this. A BIG "We'll see".
Mike
No, I'm not yet sold. Here's why:
1) Gordon...We cannot count on his presence OR solid, every down effort. We can only hope.
2) Coleman...Has proven NOTHING positive. I (flat out) do NOT like this kid.
3) Landry...IS proven & would be a solid addition.
4) Pryor...We'll see
5) Duke...Needs to be utilized more often IF he improves ball security.
6) Njoku & DeValve...Njoku needs to cut down drops & both need to improve blocking.
IMHO, we'll address QB & DB, but WR remains our weak link. I trust Dorsey & staff plus Haley & Hue to address this. A BIG "We'll see".
Mike
Valid, but pessimistic. Corey was having a decent year until the hand (again), and I can't believe he'll suffer the same fate again. Also, what does Corey look like going against the 3rd cornerback? I mean, you have to assume that the defense has to put their top corner on Gordon, and Landry will command the 2nd rated corner. That leaves the 3rd guy covering Coleman and that's a favorable matchup.
Obviously Gordon is the wildcard, and we all know it. That's why Pryor is such an important acquisition. It goes without saying that Pryor is no Josh Gordon, but but he provides the similar physical size we'd need, as both Coleman and Landry are of similar stature. Listen, we've all been burned by Josh Gordon more times than we can count, but he's the one guy we have on offense that is a threat to score from anywhere on the field. There's obviously no way to prove this statement, but if Josh Gordon was on a team like the Patriots or Packers, I think he's the best WR in the world (assuming he's not suspended).
Ultimately, you're totally right. Everything is a big "we'll see", but if things unfold like I want them to, we're going to go from terrible to exceptional in a short period of time. We just absolutely need Josh Gordon, healthy Corey, Pryor, and Jarvis....and we're deadly. I feel it.
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No, I'm not yet sold. Here's why:
1) Gordon...We cannot count on his presence OR solid, every down effort. We can only hope.
2) Coleman...Has proven NOTHING positive. I (flat out) do NOT like this kid.
3) Landry...IS proven & would be a solid addition.
4) Pryor...We'll see
5) Duke...Needs to be utilized more often IF he improves ball security.
6) Njoku & DeValve...Njoku needs to cut down drops & both need to improve blocking.
IMHO, we'll address QB & DB, but WR remains our weak link. I trust Dorsey & staff plus Haley & Hue to address this. A BIG "We'll see".
Mike
Valid, but pessimistic. Corey was having a decent year until the hand (again), and I can't believe he'll suffer the same fate again. Also, what does Corey look like going against the 3rd cornerback? I mean, you have to assume that the defense has to put their top corner on Gordon, and Landry will command the 2nd rated corner. That leaves the 3rd guy covering Coleman and that's a favorable matchup.
Obviously Gordon is the wildcard, and we all know it. That's why Pryor is such an important acquisition. It goes without saying that Pryor is no Josh Gordon, but but he provides the similar physical size we'd need, as both Coleman and Landry are of similar stature. Listen, we've all been burned by Josh Gordon more times than we can count, but he's the one guy we have on offense that is a threat to score from anywhere on the field. There's obviously no way to prove this statement, but if Josh Gordon was on a team like the Patriots or Packers, I think he's the best WR in the world (assuming he's not suspended).
Ultimately, you're totally right. Everything is a big "we'll see", but if things unfold like I want them to, we're going to go from terrible to exceptional in a short period of time. We just absolutely need Josh Gordon, healthy Corey, Pryor, and Jarvis....and we're deadly. I feel it.
Valid, but pessimistic. Corey was having a decent year until the hand (again), and I can't believe he'll suffer the same fate again. Also, what does Corey look like going against the 3rd cornerback? I mean, you have to assume that the defense has to put their top corner on Gordon, and Landry will command the 2nd rated corner. That leaves the 3rd guy covering Coleman and that's a favorable matchup.
Obviously Gordon is the wildcard, and we all know it. That's why Pryor is such an important acquisition. It goes without saying that Pryor is no Josh Gordon, but but he provides the similar physical size we'd need, as both Coleman and Landry are of similar stature. Listen, we've all been burned by Josh Gordon more times than we can count, but he's the one guy we have on offense that is a threat to score from anywhere on the field. There's obviously no way to prove this statement, but if Josh Gordon was on a team like the Patriots or Packers, I think he's the best WR in the world (assuming he's not suspended).
Ultimately, you're totally right. Everything is a big "we'll see", but if things unfold like I want them to, we're going to go from terrible to exceptional in a short period of time. We just absolutely need Josh Gordon, healthy Corey, Pryor, and Jarvis....and we're deadly. I feel it.
While I enjoy your ambition and passion - T Pryor is just a diluted version of Josh Gordon in the sense of the types of routes he's best at/limited to in a playbook. Not anything really emphasizing change of direction or getting open immediately. Some will scuff at such a comment but Gordon hasn't meant ski-wat to this franchise winning. For example, he joined a 6-4 team in progress in 2014 - and we only went 1-4 in the games he played before the coaching staff suspended him for the last game. His promises we'd see the best version of Josh Gordon we had ever seen amounted only to 1 TD reception and a reception and yardage inventory well below HIS previous norms. And this year, he didn't score a TD when he returned while our winning percentage remained at 0%. Long story short, since that 2013 Pro Bowl season he had where we only won 4 games - he's only scored 1 TD in his last 10 starts.
While Gordon was suspended, T Pryor had over 1000 yards but only scored 2 TDs. Then he went to Washington for a forgettable season that included nagging injuries. Again, he's not a get open quickly kind of guy or someone that can run any route in the playbook. If we want our QBs getting the ball out quickly - you want a Jarvis Landry or the dream (Antonio Brown). Landry is now available via trade but there's varying reports changing by the hour about how much we would need to part with. He was at the top of my grocery list until 1 report said he'd cost 2 first round picks. That has changed since BUT people prefer a young 26 year old vet with an unmatched work ethic and proven success to an unknown rookie that might be an entitled diva.
I think Coleman will get another camp; but the dropsies, injuries and body catching (especially in traffic) aren't gotta have/keeper qualities. Sometimes bad habits that have been perfected and repeated over time can't just be coached up as easily as fans would like. I hope he proves his naysayers wrong but it's hard to hold me breath for the guy. His window of opportunity could be slamming shut fast.
I think the biggest part of improvement moving forward is to be honest in the evaluation process, not to be confused with wishful thinking. If a guy can't catch he can't catch. A lot of the guys we drafted that serial killed drives with dropsies that allegedly just needed to be coached up never went on to start for another team. For example, Greg Little or "Bottlegate" star Quincey Morgan. Can you imagine if Cris Carter was a body catcher? QBs loved throwing to him even when he was well covered because he had the best hands on the planet aside from his size advantage over most corner. When Corey is well covered - what quality makes a QB feel like they have to throw to him anyway? Nothing at this time unfortunately.
The WR Corps we've been sentenced to hasn't given us a lot to be confident about. The GOOD news is we suddenly have a lot of experience in our FO with proven success at the draft, trades and FA. I'm feeling confident in their ability to change our WR Corps for the reasons I just mentioned.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Valid, but pessimistic. Corey was having a decent year until the hand (again), and I can't believe he'll suffer the same fate again. Also, what does Corey look like going against the 3rd cornerback? I mean, you have to assume that the defense has to put their top corner on Gordon, and Landry will command the 2nd rated corner. That leaves the 3rd guy covering Coleman and that's a favorable matchup.
Obviously Gordon is the wildcard, and we all know it. That's why Pryor is such an important acquisition. It goes without saying that Pryor is no Josh Gordon, but but he provides the similar physical size we'd need, as both Coleman and Landry are of similar stature. Listen, we've all been burned by Josh Gordon more times than we can count, but he's the one guy we have on offense that is a threat to score from anywhere on the field. There's obviously no way to prove this statement, but if Josh Gordon was on a team like the Patriots or Packers, I think he's the best WR in the world (assuming he's not suspended).
Ultimately, you're totally right. Everything is a big "we'll see", but if things unfold like I want them to, we're going to go from terrible to exceptional in a short period of time. We just absolutely need Josh Gordon, healthy Corey, Pryor, and Jarvis....and we're deadly. I feel it.
While I enjoy your ambition and passion - T Pryor is just a diluted version of Josh Gordon in the sense of the types of routes he's best at/limited to in a playbook. Not anything really emphasizing change of direction or getting open immediately. Some will scuff at such a comment but Gordon hasn't meant ski-wat to this franchise winning. For example, he joined a 6-4 team in progress in 2014 - and we only went 1-4 in the games he played before the coaching staff suspended him for the last game. His promises we'd see the best version of Josh Gordon we had ever seen amounted only to 1 TD reception and a reception and yardage inventory well below HIS previous norms. And this year, he didn't score a TD when he returned while our winning percentage remained at 0%. Long story short, since that 2013 Pro Bowl season he had where we only won 4 games - he's only scored 1 TD in his last 10 starts.
While Gordon was suspended, T Pryor had over 1000 yards but only scored 2 TDs. Then he went to Washington for a forgettable season that included nagging injuries. Again, he's not a get open quickly kind of guy or someone that can run any route in the playbook. If we want our QBs getting the ball out quickly - you want a Jarvis Landry or the dream (Antonio Brown). Landry is now available via trade but there's varying reports changing by the hour about how much we would need to part with. He was at the top of my grocery list until 1 report said he'd cost 2 first round picks. That has changed since BUT people prefer a young 26 year old vet with an unmatched work ethic and proven success to an unknown rookie that might be an entitled diva.
I think Coleman will get another camp; but the dropsies, injuries and body catching (especially in traffic) aren't gotta have/keeper qualities. Sometimes bad habits that have been perfected and repeated over time can't just be coached up as easily as fans would like. I hope he proves his naysayers wrong but it's hard to hold me breath for the guy. His window of opportunity could be slamming shut fast.
I think the biggest part of improvement moving forward is to be honest in the evaluation process, not to be confused with wishful thinking. If a guy can't catch he can't catch. A lot of the guys we drafted that serial killed drives with dropsies that allegedly just needed to be coached up never went on to start for another team. For example, Greg Little or "Bottlegate" star Quincey Morgan. Can you imagine if Cris Carter was a body catcher? QBs loved throwing to him even when he was well covered because he had the best hands on the planet aside from his size advantage over most corner. When Corey is well covered - what quality makes a QB feel like they have to throw to him anyway? Nothing at this time unfortunately.
The WR Corps we've been sentenced to hasn't given us a lot to be confident about. The GOOD news is we suddenly have a lot of experience in our FO with proven success at the draft, trades and FA. I'm feeling confident in their ability to change our WR Corps for the reasons I just mentioned.
......The WR Corps we've been sentenced to hasn't given us a lot to be confident about. The GOOD news is we suddenly have a lot of experience in our FO with proven success at the draft, trades and FA. I'm feeling confident in their ability to change our WR Corps for the reasons I just mentioned.
You can only wonder what Kizer's final numbers would have looked like IF he had better recievers AND maybe a little better play calling and clock management?
Probably no -0- wins and who knows not picking 1st.....maybe?
-
......The WR Corps we've been sentenced to hasn't given us a lot to be confident about. The GOOD news is we suddenly have a lot of experience in our FO with proven success at the draft, trades and FA. I'm feeling confident in their ability to change our WR Corps for the reasons I just mentioned.
You can only wonder what Kizer's final numbers would have looked like IF he had better recievers AND maybe a little better play calling and clock management?
Probably no -0- wins and who knows not picking 1st.....maybe?
You can only wonder what Kizer's final numbers would have looked like IF he had better recievers AND maybe a little better play calling and clock management?
Probably no -0- wins and who knows not picking 1st.....maybe?
I want to love Kizer but honestly he could have been throwing to Moss, Owens and Rice and still sucked IMO ?
-
As I'm sure you already know, it's more than just the cost of the 3rd rounder. We'd have to agree to terms on a contract with Landry before a trade could be executed, so it's a 3rd round pick AND millions of dollars per year. And we already know free agents get over paid, ESPECIALLY if they have to go to Cleveland. I could be mistaken, but I BELIEVE Landry would have the right to negate the trade. Again...I'll double check that because I'm not sure. But, we have picks and we need money. I'm not totally in love with any of the WRs in the draft, and normally rookie WRs take a while to learn anyway. All this means we have to seriously consider making this trade for Landry. I've been saying for a while that I want Landry AND Pryor, and that could take the possibly the worst WR group at the start of the 2017 season, to one of the BEST in 2018. Let THAT resonate for a minute. Think I'm exaggerating? Josh Gordon, Jarvis Landry, Terrell Pryor, Corey Coleman is not something to scoff at, and then you throw in other positions like Duke Johnson, David Njoku, and Seth Devalve. Sold yet?
No, I'm not yet sold. Here's why:
1) Gordon...We cannot count on his presence OR solid, every down effort. We can only hope.
2) Coleman...Has proven NOTHING positive. I (flat out) do NOT like this kid.
3) Landry...IS proven & would be a solid addition.
4) Pryor...We'll see
5) Duke...Needs to be utilized more often IF he improves ball security.
6) Njoku & DeValve...Njoku needs to cut down drops & both need to improve blocking.
IMHO, we'll address QB & DB, but WR remains our weak link. I trust Dorsey & staff plus Haley & Hue to address this. A BIG "We'll see".
Mike
No, I'm not yet sold. Here's why:
1) Gordon...We cannot count on his presence OR solid, every down effort. We can only hope.
2) Coleman...Has proven NOTHING positive. I (flat out) do NOT like this kid.
3) Landry...IS proven & would be a solid addition.
4) Pryor...We'll see
5) Duke...Needs to be utilized more often IF he improves ball security.
6) Njoku & DeValve...Njoku needs to cut down drops & both need to improve blocking.
IMHO, we'll address QB & DB, but WR remains our weak link. I trust Dorsey & staff plus Haley & Hue to address this. A BIG "We'll see".
Mike
Valid, but pessimistic. Corey was having a decent year until the hand (again), and I can't believe he'll suffer the same fate again. Also, what does Corey look like going against the 3rd cornerback? I mean, you have to assume that the defense has to put their top corner on Gordon, and Landry will command the 2nd rated corner. That leaves the 3rd guy covering Coleman and that's a favorable matchup.
Obviously Gordon is the wildcard, and we all know it. That's why Pryor is such an important acquisition. It goes without saying that Pryor is no Josh Gordon, but but he provides the similar physical size we'd need, as both Coleman and Landry are of similar stature. Listen, we've all been burned by Josh Gordon more times than we can count, but he's the one guy we have on offense that is a threat to score from anywhere on the field. There's obviously no way to prove this statement, but if Josh Gordon was on a team like the Patriots or Packers, I think he's the best WR in the world (assuming he's not suspended).
Ultimately, you're totally right. Everything is a big "we'll see", but if things unfold like I want them to, we're going to go from terrible to exceptional in a short period of time. We just absolutely need Josh Gordon, healthy Corey, Pryor, and Jarvis....and we're deadly. I feel it.
As I posted (at top), I questioned whether or not it would be perceived as pessimistic. That bothered me as I take great pride in being one of the more OPTIMISTIC of Browns' Fans, but this past season I decided to take off my "rose colored glasses" & view things realistically. That lead me to my views above. Also, Sashi left us in a HUGE hole by eliminating positive veteran presence on field, in locker room, & in position rooms which Retarded the development of our young players...guys like McCown, Haden, Hawkins/Benjamin, & Barnidge.
The positives come in the hiring of Dorsey, Highsmith, Wolfe, McCloughan, & Haley. We now have PROVEN guys from WINNING programs building our TEAM, & they WILL!
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST
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