No matter what's being said publicly, the Browns quarterback position...
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@shepwrite said:
Of course things favor Quinn. Quinn has always been favored over Anderson at every level -- high school, college, the draft, and now.hate to interrupt your wet dream but Quinn was a 4 star coming out of high school and Anderson was a 5 star.
Anderson twice attended the Elite 11 QB camp in LA. Quinn was never invited.
if Quinn didn't ride Ndukwe's coattails to Notre Dame then you wouldn't know who Quinn was right now.
hate to interrupt your wet dream but Quinn was a 4 star coming out of high school and Anderson was a 5 star.
Anderson twice attended the Elite 11 QB camp in LA. Quinn was never invited.
if Quinn didn't ride Ndukwe's coattails to Notre Dame then you wouldn't know who Quinn was right now.
Two things -
1 - Derek Anderson was a class of 2001 high school student. Therefore, the only elite camps he could have gone to were in 1999 and 2000. He was there for 2000 though, however, I don't have a list for the 1999 roster. I saw he was invited back while playing at Oregon State as a counselor, but can't find anything linking him to the 1999 camp as a player.
2 - Brady Quinn was a four-star, this is true. However, Rivals didn't give out star ratings until 2002 and I can't find star ratings for Scout on recruits before 2002. So, where is Derek Anderson rated as a five-star?
Also, ND wasn't the only school after Quinn so it's pretty assumptive to make a statement like "if Quinn didn't ride Ndukwe's coattails to Notre Dame then you wouldn't know who Quinn was right now." I mean, you're a guy that's all about the facts, right?
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Just a general reply.
My life's experience tells me that great, or even good employees usually don't have a hard time distinguishing themselves from a employee that sucks.
If DA sucks as badly as many around here think, Quinn will be named starter early in the process.
If not, that either means DA doesn't suck, or Quinn is pretty are close to the suck level.
Mangini is smart enough to know it makes sense to name a starter early on if he can so the team can rally around that guy. QB controversies are a nightmare in the making as we experienced with Kelly and Tim. Mangini isn't going to do that as some "motivational" move, or as a way to prop up some guys trade value. He wants to win....trade value isn't something he is considering at this point.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
@inspecta said:
It's a freakin' daily occurrence of watching Lumnuts get caught in lie after lie after lie.He's more delusional the stooler fans reminiscing about their teams of the 70's.
For the record, he COULD be right because I haven't found anything (yet) to completely refute what he said.
However, the scouting services that gave Brady Quinn four stars did not give DA a grade because, well, for one - Rivals.com started right around the time DA entered college whichthat means it would have been impossible to give him a star-level grade. Also, I am not as familiar with Scout (Probably something to do with me working for Rivals) but I can't find star-ratings of any recruits prior to the 2002 class.
Also, I used to be all on the side of Brady Quinn, but I am back to wait and see mode with him and if DA comes in this preseason and blows him out of the water then I have no problem with the dude starting.
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Not to get in to that controversy, but i do know BQ was given a 3rd round grade by The Sporting News.
I proved it some time back by seeking out the rating to post...am not going to do it again....so there were at least some who didn't have him as a top prospect...and his draft slide would indicate that as well.
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Not to get in to that controversy, but i do know BQ was given a 3rd round grade by The Sporting News.
I proved it some time back by seeking out the rating to post...am not going to do it again....so there were at least some who didn't have him as a top prospect...and his draft slide would indicate that as well.
Not to get in to that controversy, but i do know BQ was given a 3rd round grade by The Sporting News.
I proved it some time back by seeking out the rating to post...am not going to do it again....so there were at least some who didn't have him as a top prospect...and his draft slide would indicate that as well.
I remember that too.
I personally don't care, nor look at many ratings and -- without going into the whole Tom Brady, Terrell Davis reasoning -- we should all know why star ratings and draft predictions only go so far.
Lums (and everyone else for that matter) should know star ratings and accollades acquired in high school only mean so much.
Oregon State is notorious for taking players who are rated as lower prospects and coaching them up. All the BQ/ Oregon State BS aside, Riley is a bad ass coach and, in my opinion, the best game day coach in the Pac-10. I'd like to see what Riley could do with the talent USC annually brings in.
It's about what you do with your talent.
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hate to interrupt your wet dream but Quinn was a 4 star coming out of high school and Anderson was a 5 star.
Anderson twice attended the Elite 11 QB camp in LA. Quinn was never invited.
if Quinn didn't ride Ndukwe's coattails to Notre Dame then you wouldn't know who Quinn was right now.
Two things -
1 - Derek Anderson was a class of 2001 high school student. Therefore, the only elite camps he could have gone to were in 1999 and 2000. He was there for 2000 though, however, I don't have a list for the 1999 roster. I saw he was invited back while playing at Oregon State as a counselor, but can't find anything linking him to the 1999 camp as a player.
2 - Brady Quinn was a four-star, this is true. However, Rivals didn't give out star ratings until 2002 and I can't find star ratings for Scout on recruits before 2002. So, where is Derek Anderson rated as a five-star?
Also, ND wasn't the only school after Quinn so it's pretty assumptive to make a statement like "if Quinn didn't ride Ndukwe's coattails to Notre Dame then you wouldn't know who Quinn was right now." I mean, you're a guy that's all about the facts, right?
Two things -
1 - Derek Anderson was a class of 2001 high school student. Therefore, the only elite camps he could have gone to were in 1999 and 2000. I don't have a list for the 1999 roster. I saw he was invited back while playing at Oregon State as a counselor, but can't find anything linking him to the 1999 camp as a player.
2 - Brady Quinn was a four-star, this is true. However, Rivals didn't give out star ratings until 2002 and I can't find star ratings for Scout on recruits before 2002. So, where is Derek Anderson rated as a five-star?
Also, ND wasn't the only school after Quinn so it's pretty assumptive to make a statement like "if Quinn didn't ride Ndukwe's coattails to Notre Dame then you wouldn't know who Quinn was right now." I mean, you're a guy that's all about the facts, right?
Thanks for posting AZ. Great points. I agree with you. This isn't directed at you, rather for general info. regarding facts and assumption. It's unlikely Quinn would have gone "undiscovered."
IIRC Quinn also had offers from Michigan and Ohio State. If he had made his college decision on a different day he could have just as easily chosen Ohio State.
Supposing anything beyond that is pointless but consider this:
If Quinn had chosen Ohio State there is a chance that Troy Smith might not have won the Heisman.
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It's about what you do with your talent.
I agree AZ.
Once a guy is in the pros, where he was ranked as a HS player or college player really don't mean squat.
For that matter, where is was drafted doesn't matter all that much.
With Savage on board, I could buy the argument that Quinn would indeed get a 25 game shot.
Now that he isn't here...these new guys don't give a damn what was invested in him. All they care about now is what THEY invest in a player. Cutting Quinn tomorrow isn't something they wouldnt do if they felt like it would make them better(not saying they will, just making a point).
Viekune will get a better, drawn out shot that will Quinn because Mangini and Kok have something invested in Viekune....some people will get what i am saying, some will deny what i am saying because they don't like the idea, and some simply won't be able to comprehend the thought.
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Just a general reply.
My life's experience tells me that great, or even good employees usually don't have a hard time distinguishing themselves from a employee that sucks.
If DA sucks as badly as many around here think, Quinn will be named starter early in the process.
If not, that either means DA doesn't suck, or Quinn is pretty are close to the suck level.
Mangini is smart enough to know it makes sense to name a starter early on if he can so the team can rally around that guy. QB controversies are a nightmare in the making as we experienced with Kelly and Tim. Mangini isn't going to do that as some "motivational" move, or as a way to prop up some guys trade value. He wants to win....trade value isn't something he is considering at this point.
Just a general reply.
My life's experience tells me that great, or even good employees usually don't have a hard time distinguishing themselves from a employee that sucks.
If DA sucks as badly as many around here think, Quinn will be named starter early in the process.
If not, that either means DA doesn't suck, or Quinn is pretty are close to the suck level.
Mangini is smart enough to know it makes sense to name a starter early on if he can so the team can rally around that guy. QB controversies are a nightmare in the making as we experienced with Kelly and Tim. Mangini isn't going to do that as some "motivational" move, or as a way to prop up some guys trade value. He wants to win....trade value isn't something he is considering at this point.
Thing is, Mangini was quoted in one of his last two interviews that he's not gonna name a starter until after the preseason games are through. Which means the decision wont be quick, its gonna be long and unnecessarily drawn out like every year.
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@shepwrite said:
Of course things favor Quinn. Quinn has always been favored over Anderson at every level -- high school, college, the draft, and now.hate to interrupt your wet dream but Quinn was a 4 star coming out of high school and Anderson was a 5 star.
Anderson twice attended the Elite 11 QB camp in LA. Quinn was never invited.
if Quinn didn't ride Ndukwe's coattails to Notre Dame then you wouldn't know who Quinn was right now.
hate to interrupt your wet dream but Quinn was a 4 star coming out of high school and Anderson was a 5 star.
Anderson twice attended the Elite 11 QB camp in LA. Quinn was never invited.
if Quinn didn't ride Ndukwe's coattails to Notre Dame then you wouldn't know who Quinn was right now.
So Quinn started to shave when he was 13 and DA started when he was 15. What does that have to do with being a good NFL quarterback? Nothing, just like what you posted.
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@shepwrite said:
Quoting that TSN grade is a little crazy because Quinn carried a first round grade from everyone else, including Kiper and McShay and the rest of the known universe, with most putting him in the Top 10. All of the serious scouting services had him between top 5 and top 15.That's why it was said that Quinn fell as opposed to rose... right? Let's not wrap our brains into fettuccine here and give up on any known factors and declare the world a chaotic swirl of gray.
Quinn was predicted to go in round one and did.
I have no idea who else recruited Derek Anderson, but I know Michigan, Ohio State, and Notre Dame all recruited Quinn. I'm sure you've heard of them.
Quinn won the Maxwell Trophy as the best quarterback in the nation his senior year, then got drafted in round one. Anderson didn't... and wasn't.
Let's at least keep some semblance of reality here. Lums, you love DA. That's great. Go start a DA board or something.
LOL....Ok....I see your angle, but none the less, people worth the pick don't usually fall.
You have to admit that the history of the league shows more people are elevated to levels that didn't earn than those who fell and over achieved.
But as i said...even that doesn't matter. All that matters is what BQ does with the chance he is given....I know you agree with that.
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@shepwrite said:
Quoting that TSN grade is a little crazy because Quinn carried a first round grade from everyone else, including Kiper and McShay and the rest of the known universe, with most putting him in the Top 10. All of the serious scouting services had him between top 5 and top 15.I could be wrong, but I think McShay gave him a late 1st round grade. During the draft process, he was highly critical of Quinn, with his accuracy (especially when under pressure) being the biggest issue.
It came up again this year when Sanchez started getting linked to the Browns. McShay said that although he "didn't like Quinn" during the draft process, he felt that the team needed to give him a chance to prove himself.
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Quinn for the most part was a consensus top 15 pick with some thinking he could legitimately go number one. Supposedly Alz Heimers tried to sign him before the draft to go number one but it was a bit of a lowball and Quinn balked.
Ultimately, the wrinkled one went with Jafaticuss and the Browns went with Thomas. When Miaimi lost their minds he ended up falling because nobody needed a QB. Supposedly several teams were scrambling to grab him. Throw the third rounder crap from TSN into the sewer that was pure bullcrap. Quinn was a big time QB coming out just like he was in college. Hell, they don't follow guys around with cameras like ESPN did if they're expected to go late first or second................
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there must be atleast 500 qb threads on this site now. It doesnt matter what any of us think its what the coach wants. We can compare the 2 qbs all we want and it doesnt mean a efn thing. im not tryn to pick a fight with nobody here im just given my 2 cents. I JUST WANT TO WIN.
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@inspecta said:
It's a freakin' daily occurrence of watching Lumnuts get caught in lie after lie after lie.He's more delusional the stooler fans reminiscing about their teams of the 70's.
For the record, he COULD be right because I haven't found anything (yet) to completely refute what he said.
However, the scouting services that gave Brady Quinn four stars did not give DA a grade because, well, for one - Rivals.com started right around the time DA entered college whichthat means it would have been impossible to give him a star-level grade. Also, I am not as familiar with Scout (Probably something to do with me working for Rivals) but I can't find star-ratings of any recruits prior to the 2002 class.
Also, I used to be all on the side of Brady Quinn, but I am back to wait and see mode with him and if DA comes in this preseason and blows him out of the water then I have no problem with the dude starting.
For the record, he COULD be right because I haven't found anything (yet) to completely refute what he said.
What do you mean "could be right"?
Anderson was the #2 rated prep QB in the nation. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/...01/01/elite_50/
to put that into perspective, Quinn was rated the 14th best QB in his class by the same pub.
And shep, Anderson picked Oregon State over Florida State and Oregon.
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Just a general reply.
My life's experience tells me that great, or even good employees usually don't have a hard time distinguishing themselves from a employee that sucks.
If DA sucks as badly as many around here think, Quinn will be named starter early in the process.
If not, that either means DA doesn't suck, or Quinn is pretty are close to the suck level.
Mangini is smart enough to know it makes sense to name a starter early on if he can so the team can rally around that guy. QB controversies are a nightmare in the making as we experienced with Kelly and Tim. Mangini isn't going to do that as some "motivational" move, or as a way to prop up some guys trade value. He wants to win....trade value isn't something he is considering at this point.
Thing is, Mangini was quoted in one of his last two interviews that he's not gonna name a starter until after the preseason games are through. Which means the decision wont be quick, its gonna be long and unnecessarily drawn out like every year.
Thing is, Mangini was quoted in one of his last two interviews that he's not gonna name a starter until after the preseason games are through. Which means the decision wont be quick, its gonna be long and unnecessarily drawn out like every year.
I thought he said it would be mid-way through camp.....something like the 3rd preseason game. He will not wait until preseason is over.
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Lum for the most part you are all alone on an island, I have to give you Kudos for your determination. I know its not really grounded in the love for the Browns and like Shep you are very passionate about the QB you think is better.
People can put you on ignore but really whatever DA has is enough to give 2 different coaching staffs pause over a 1st round highly popular draft pick. That is something that is absolutely undeniable and irrefutable. BQ has some sort of question mark to have fallen in the 1st round and continued enough that 2 different coaching staffs cant just name him the starter over DA.
Whatever happens after preseason is sure to make some people happy and others upset, regardless of what decision is made I hope Lum you continue to watch the Browns.
I have come to the point that I hope IF Bq is named starter that he gets 8 games to solidify his position in the franchise. However IF DA is named starter than we need to trade BQ ASAP because it will be pretty evident that 2 completely different types of coaching staffs have decided that BQ is not NFL starter material.
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For the record, he COULD be right because I haven't found anything (yet) to completely refute what he said.
What do you mean "could be right"?
Anderson was the #2 rated prep QB in the nation. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/...01/01/elite_50/
to put that into perspective, Quinn was rated the 14th best QB in his class by the same pub.
And shep, Anderson picked Oregon State over Florida State and Oregon.
What do you mean "could be right"?
Anderson was the #2 rated prep QB in the nation. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/...01/01/elite_50/
to put that into perspective, Quinn was rated the 14th best QB in his class by the same pub.
And shep, Anderson picked Oregon State over Florida State and Oregon.
Anderson picking Oregon State was like Bernie Kosar picking the Browns out of the sup draft. It was his dream. Other schools had no shot.
Boy that #1 prospect DJ Shockley turned out to be something special didn't he??
Again, where is his five-star rating? Where was his second year as a PARTICIPANT in the elite 11?
Care to acknowledge the other teams that pursued Quinn besides Notre Dame?
I get that you like Anderson. Perhaps when he wins the starting job - like you obviously predict - we can all learn that Derek Anderson was as good as you're telling us. Perhaps he can do all of the things he is capable of doing. Just make sure you don't fabricate things out of thin-air when offering your explanation, such as Derek Anderson being a five-star QB and then provide a SI article with their opinion of who THEY think are the top prospects, not to mention, SI didn't give star ratings.
You constantly get on people for bending the truth about Brady Quinn, and at times, you're right. However, you're the classic hypocrite dude. The Skip Bayless of this website; if you will.
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I thought the rap against Mangini prior to the draft was the lack of information that was being disclosed, however I keep hearing how we turned down multiple #1 draft picks for Quinn... Is there anything solid to back up these rumors???
To turn down mulitple 1st round draft picks prior to the draft for Quinn and then not naming Quinn the starter after the draft make no sense whatsoever....
If he's that valuable as a player then why not name him the starter from the get go.... Sounds to me that these draft pick offers were nothing more than rumors that now have evolved into facts....
Also, Mangini's not obligated to start Quinn period... He didn't draft him and he's not his responsibility... The only thing Mangini is obligated to do is win games on sunday.....
peace
T.Dawg
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Lum for the most part you are all alone on an island, I have to give you Kudos for your determination. I know its not really grounded in the love for the Browns and like Shep you are very passionate about the QB you think is better.
People can put you on ignore but really whatever DA has is enough to give 2 different coaching staffs pause over a 1st round highly popular draft pick. That is something that is absolutely undeniable and irrefutable. BQ has some sort of question mark to have fallen in the 1st round and continued enough that 2 different coaching staffs cant just name him the starter over DA.
Whatever happens after preseason is sure to make some people happy and others upset, regardless of what decision is made I hope Lum you continue to watch the Browns.
I have come to the point that I hope IF Bq is named starter that he gets 8 games to solidify his position in the franchise. However IF DA is named starter than we need to trade BQ ASAP because it will be pretty evident that 2 completely different types of coaching staffs have decided that BQ is not NFL starter material.
I have come to the point that I hope IF Bq is named starter that he gets 8 games to solidify his position in the franchise. However IF DA is named starter than we need to trade BQ ASAP because it will be pretty evident that 2 completely different types of coaching staffs have decided that BQ is not NFL starter material.
So.. 8 games for Quinn is enough. 26+ for Anderson doesn't alleviate your doubts.
If Anderson is named starter, it means we are preparing to take another QB in 2010.
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