No matter what's being said publicly, the Browns quarterback position...

ballpeen

It's about what you do with your talent.

I agree AZ.

Once a guy is in the pros, where he was ranked as a HS player or college player really don't mean squat.

For that matter, where is was drafted doesn't matter all that much.

With Savage on board, I could buy the argument that Quinn would indeed get a 25 game shot.

Now that he isn't here...these new guys don't give a damn what was invested in him. All they care about now is what THEY invest in a player. Cutting Quinn tomorrow isn't something they wouldnt do if they felt like it would make them better(not saying they will, just making a point).

Viekune will get a better, drawn out shot that will Quinn because Mangini and Kok have something invested in Viekune....some people will get what i am saying, some will deny what i am saying because they don't like the idea, and some simply won't be able to comprehend the thought.

PlaygroundLegend

@ballpeen said:
Just a general reply.
My life's experience tells me that great, or even good employees usually don't have a hard time distinguishing themselves from a employee that sucks.

If DA sucks as badly as many around here think, Quinn will be named starter early in the process.

If not, that either means DA doesn't suck, or Quinn is pretty are close to the suck level.

Mangini is smart enough to know it makes sense to name a starter early on if he can so the team can rally around that guy. QB controversies are a nightmare in the making as we experienced with Kelly and Tim. Mangini isn't going to do that as some "motivational" move, or as a way to prop up some guys trade value. He wants to win....trade value isn't something he is considering at this point.

Thing is, Mangini was quoted in one of his last two interviews that he's not gonna name a starter until after the preseason games are through. Which means the decision wont be quick, its gonna be long and unnecessarily drawn out like every year.

BernietheKid

@lumbergh said:
hate to interrupt your wet dream but Quinn was a 4 star coming out of high school and Anderson was a 5 star.
Anderson twice attended the Elite 11 QB camp in LA. Quinn was never invited.

if Quinn didn't ride Ndukwe's coattails to Notre Dame then you wouldn't know who Quinn was right now.

So Quinn started to shave when he was 13 and DA started when he was 15. What does that have to do with being a good NFL quarterback? Nothing, just like what you posted.

ballpeen

@shepwrite said:
Quoting that TSN grade is a little crazy because Quinn carried a first round grade from everyone else, including Kiper and McShay and the rest of the known universe, with most putting him in the Top 10. All of the serious scouting services had him between top 5 and top 15.
That's why it was said that Quinn fell as opposed to rose... right? Let's not wrap our brains into fettuccine here and give up on any known factors and declare the world a chaotic swirl of gray.

Quinn was predicted to go in round one and did.

I have no idea who else recruited Derek Anderson, but I know Michigan, Ohio State, and Notre Dame all recruited Quinn. I'm sure you've heard of them.

Quinn won the Maxwell Trophy as the best quarterback in the nation his senior year, then got drafted in round one. Anderson didn't... and wasn't.

Let's at least keep some semblance of reality here. Lums, you love DA. That's great. Go start a DA board or something.

LOL....Ok....I see your angle, but none the less, people worth the pick don't usually fall.

You have to admit that the history of the league shows more people are elevated to levels that didn't earn than those who fell and over achieved.

But as i said...even that doesn't matter. All that matters is what BQ does with the chance he is given....I know you agree with that.

? Aloysius

@shepwrite said:
Quoting that TSN grade is a little crazy because Quinn carried a first round grade from everyone else, including Kiper and McShay and the rest of the known universe, with most putting him in the Top 10. All of the serious scouting services had him between top 5 and top 15.

I could be wrong, but I think McShay gave him a late 1st round grade. During the draft process, he was highly critical of Quinn, with his accuracy (especially when under pressure) being the biggest issue.

It came up again this year when Sanchez started getting linked to the Browns. McShay said that although he "didn't like Quinn" during the draft process, he felt that the team needed to give him a chance to prove himself.

Riffer X

Quinn for the most part was a consensus top 15 pick with some thinking he could legitimately go number one. Supposedly Alz Heimers tried to sign him before the draft to go number one but it was a bit of a lowball and Quinn balked.

Ultimately, the wrinkled one went with Jafaticuss and the Browns went with Thomas. When Miaimi lost their minds he ended up falling because nobody needed a QB. Supposedly several teams were scrambling to grab him. Throw the third rounder crap from TSN into the sewer that was pure bullcrap. Quinn was a big time QB coming out just like he was in college. Hell, they don't follow guys around with cameras like ESPN did if they're expected to go late first or second................

medicineman

there must be atleast 500 qb threads on this site now. It doesnt matter what any of us think its what the coach wants. We can compare the 2 qbs all we want and it doesnt mean a efn thing. im not tryn to pick a fight with nobody here im just given my 2 cents. I JUST WANT TO WIN.

Lumbergh

@azbrowns said:
For the record, he COULD be right because I haven't found anything (yet) to completely refute what he said.

What do you mean "could be right"?

Anderson was the #2 rated prep QB in the nation. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/...01/01/elite_50/

to put that into perspective, Quinn was rated the 14th best QB in his class by the same pub.

And shep, Anderson picked Oregon State over Florida State and Oregon.

Farang

You have chosen to ignore all posts from: Lumbergh.

· View this post

· Un-ignore Lumbergh

NebBrownsFan

@playgroundlegend said:
Thing is, Mangini was quoted in one of his last two interviews that he's not gonna name a starter until after the preseason games are through. Which means the decision wont be quick, its gonna be long and unnecessarily drawn out like every year.

I thought he said it would be mid-way through camp.....something like the 3rd preseason game. He will not wait until preseason is over.

osusev

Lum for the most part you are all alone on an island, I have to give you Kudos for your determination. I know its not really grounded in the love for the Browns and like Shep you are very passionate about the QB you think is better.

People can put you on ignore but really whatever DA has is enough to give 2 different coaching staffs pause over a 1st round highly popular draft pick. That is something that is absolutely undeniable and irrefutable. BQ has some sort of question mark to have fallen in the 1st round and continued enough that 2 different coaching staffs cant just name him the starter over DA.

Whatever happens after preseason is sure to make some people happy and others upset, regardless of what decision is made I hope Lum you continue to watch the Browns.

I have come to the point that I hope IF Bq is named starter that he gets 8 games to solidify his position in the franchise. However IF DA is named starter than we need to trade BQ ASAP because it will be pretty evident that 2 completely different types of coaching staffs have decided that BQ is not NFL starter material.

AZBrowns

@lumbergh said:
What do you mean "could be right"?
Anderson was the #2 rated prep QB in the nation. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/...01/01/elite_50/

to put that into perspective, Quinn was rated the 14th best QB in his class by the same pub.

And shep, Anderson picked Oregon State over Florida State and Oregon.

Anderson picking Oregon State was like Bernie Kosar picking the Browns out of the sup draft. It was his dream. Other schools had no shot.

Boy that #1 prospect DJ Shockley turned out to be something special didn't he??

Again, where is his five-star rating? Where was his second year as a PARTICIPANT in the elite 11?

Care to acknowledge the other teams that pursued Quinn besides Notre Dame?

I get that you like Anderson. Perhaps when he wins the starting job - like you obviously predict - we can all learn that Derek Anderson was as good as you're telling us. Perhaps he can do all of the things he is capable of doing. Just make sure you don't fabricate things out of thin-air when offering your explanation, such as Derek Anderson being a five-star QB and then provide a SI article with their opinion of who THEY think are the top prospects, not to mention, SI didn't give star ratings.

You constantly get on people for bending the truth about Brady Quinn, and at times, you're right. However, you're the classic hypocrite dude. The Skip Bayless of this website; if you will.

daddybull1

I thought the rap against Mangini prior to the draft was the lack of information that was being disclosed, however I keep hearing how we turned down multiple #1 draft picks for Quinn... Is there anything solid to back up these rumors???

To turn down mulitple 1st round draft picks prior to the draft for Quinn and then not naming Quinn the starter after the draft make no sense whatsoever....

If he's that valuable as a player then why not name him the starter from the get go.... Sounds to me that these draft pick offers were nothing more than rumors that now have evolved into facts....

Also, Mangini's not obligated to start Quinn period... He didn't draft him and he's not his responsibility... The only thing Mangini is obligated to do is win games on sunday.....

peace

T.Dawg

lemosley01

@osusev said:
I have come to the point that I hope IF Bq is named starter that he gets 8 games to solidify his position in the franchise. However IF DA is named starter than we need to trade BQ ASAP because it will be pretty evident that 2 completely different types of coaching staffs have decided that BQ is not NFL starter material.

So.. 8 games for Quinn is enough. 26+ for Anderson doesn't alleviate your doubts.

If Anderson is named starter, it means we are preparing to take another QB in 2010.

Bronx Cheer

@osusev said:
People can put you on ignore but really whatever DA has is enough to give 2 different coaching staffs pause over a 1st round highly popular draft pick. That is something that is absolutely undeniable and irrefutable. BQ has some sort of question mark to have fallen in the 1st round and continued enough that 2 different coaching staffs cant just name him the starter over DA.

Here, I'll summarize the thought processes of the two administrations for you:

GM #1 circa offseason '08 : "I have to re-sign this guy, he saved my butt from the unemployment line last season, and I can't let him go to Baltimore. Besides, it makes me look brilliant to find a starting QB for essentially free."

Coach #1 circa offseason '08 : "I can't bench this guy, he saved my butt from the unemployment line last season. Besides, that red-headed dork gave him like a bajillion dollars to stay."

GM/Coaching staff #2 circa offseason '09 : "We can't cut him, we owe like a bajillion dollars on his contract. Might as well keep him around and pray disaster befalls some other team so we can trade his butt. We'll have to sing his praises, though, to retain any semblance of value."

Now, the question is, which of those thought processes do you find most rational?

Kingphisher

@jadbf said:
I agree Sev. And this is an opinion I've had for a long time now. While I think Quinn has more to offer to this team at this time. And I believe Romeo was a coordinator who could teach the players asigned to him how to run his scheme. I don't believe he was a good talent evaluator. So I don't take much stock in the decisions he made regarding ANY of our players. I DO BELIEVE that if a second straight coaching staff picks DA as the starter, then it says WAY more about Quinn than it does about DA and that Quinn should be traded imediately while his stock is the highest.

"DO BELIEVE that if a second straight coaching staff picks DA as the starter, then it says WAY more about Quinn than it does about DA and that Quinn should be traded imediately while his stock is the highest."

Quinn held out in training camp for the 1st year so he had no shot at starting. Anderson lost the QB derby that year to Frye because he was not a good practice QB. He got the job by default after the first game that year because Frye shat the bed. DA had a Pro Bowl season that year so how do you not name him the starter for last year? Quinn only got in 3 games last year (after DA stunk it up) before he was hurt. This is his first REAL shot at winning the job and being chosen as the QB. If RC names BQ the starter at the beginning of last year and they lose their first 4 games, they are both run out of town week 5 for "benching a pro bowler". DA had to fail for Quinn to get a chance. That happened. So now is his shot. If he doesn't get it right out, there is no saying that he won't come in some day and be a fantastic game QB like DA did two years ago. You never really know until someone gets a shot. Who knows, maybe its Bartel. I just hope we get someone established that can get the job done, bottom line. We really haven't had that since the early days of Kosar, which is sad.

osusev

there really is not point on trying to reason with the hyper hater of DA/BQ supporters just like there is very little purpose on argueing with Lum who is obviously pro DA/Anti BQ.

We could argue why DA performed well/underperformed in the complicated Team/million dollar coaching and support staff game. We could argue about BQ in the same exact way quoting intangibles,college career, work ethic etc.

I think this is how it plays out, either Mangini think BQ is Franchise material or he thinks DA is just that much better and can be trained. I doubt there will be much middle ground, he will probably hedge his bet once the season starts with either guy for the season and trade next year the loser.

Really we all now have to put "faith" in Mangini and companies talent evaluation skills

hammertime

SoupDawg said:
Have you ever noticed that Lums doesn't reply to anything.
He just tries to pick and choose spots to argue , where he has to make up stuff.

Here we go Lums....

Are you a Browns Fan?

Answer that douche. I highly doubt you are, you and oldcrow should get a room together.

Why the beef w/ oldcrow? His reasoning is pretty sound on most topics.

Riffer X

I recall DA being pretty high ranked coming out of HS. Let's not get this twisted, DA is a helluva athlete. Plus, scouts drool over 6'6 guys with howitzers coming out, it's always been that way. None of this really matters though, Quinn needs his shot. I've said it a million times, practice doesn't necessarily dictate who the best guy is, not until both have had their shot.

I say this from the heart, if I thought DA was the guy I could care less about Quinn. Unfortunately, I'm a Browns fan and want to see what Quinn can do and besides that, he deserves the opportunity. It's not like he is Rivers to DA's Brees when Drew was lighting it up, DA hasn't got the job done since midway 07 and that's the facts. It's certainly not all his fault but he has shown glaring deficiencies over the course of his career. It's not like Quinn is Todd Philcox as the other option here, the kid has the pedigree and shown he can play in limited opportunities.

I find it ironic that he is held to 8 games to prove he's a keeper whereas DA has been given well over 20 starts, but if that's the case, I'll live with it. I said this before, and that article that came out saying Mangie is going to keep both guys believing they have an equal shot is the smart thing to do. I said it before that article. You don't want to basically cast DA aside in case Quinn goes down or something happens before opening day. Besides that, DA deserves at least that much. With all the problems the team has had he certainly should not be made the scapegoat for all of it.

I don't think DA will ever be a good and consistent QB in this league. I know he has youth on his side but it's his game that bothers me and I don't think it's the kind of game that can be changed just with experience. I'm not going to get all into that I've done that enough, but that's what I believe. I do feel there are certain systems and venues where he could put up some pretty good numbers, I just don't think he is a true and competent leader, game manager and drive handler.

Drunkandstoopid

@shepwrite said:
Quinn's advantages and Anderson's shortcomings are minimized in preseason games when defenses play more vanilla.

So... Last year, with all of Quinn's advangtages, against vanilla defenses, he threw for 1... yes ONE... TD in 17 drives. Man that Anderson cat must be horrible.