Barkley at #1?
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And damn few Super Bowl wins out of that group. Colts won after James left, and Lewis can thank the other Lewis (Ray) and his defensive pals for his. Just getting to the playoffs isn't the ultimate goal. Ask the Bengals or Vikings about that.
Cmon Man.
There have been only 52 Super Bowl winning RBs and some guys have won more than once.
Cmon Man.
There have been only 52 Super Bowl winning RBs and some guys have won more than once.
Out of the 52 Super Bowls there have been:
29 QB's named as the SB MVP
7 RB's named as the SB MVP (last one was Terrell Davis in SB 32)
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How many SB's were they in?..... 2? Lewis/Bush
If you are talking about RBs taken in the top 5 of the draft since 2000 being in the Super Bowl....then the number is I think 3: Bush, Lewis, James
But if you ask....how many QBs taken since 2000 in the top 5 of the draft....then it is the same number: 3: Eli, Newton, Ryan.
If you are talking about RBs taken in the top 5 of the draft since 2000 being in the Super Bowl....then the number is I think 3: Bush, Lewis, James
But if you ask....how many QBs taken since 2000 in the top 5 of the draft....then it is the same number: 3: Eli, Newton, Ryan.
Yes.. Anyone can basically skew this anyway they like I suppose.. But, I'm just of the mindset.. You take the QB you want #1 , And Live with the pick. then take BPA the rest of the draft... But yeah... We can split hairs all day long.. And the only denominator we'll come up with is theres really no exact science.. But on the other hand.. There have been tried and true processes for doing things "The right way"
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
Lot of Busts and Jags on that list.
2 Super Bowl wins by the same guy.
By Jags....do you mean: Just A Guys....or actual Jacksonville Jaguars?
If the former....yes, some....but also a lot of TBD....to be determineds.
But, if JAX JAGS...just the one.
By Jags....do you mean: Just A Guys....or actual Jacksonville Jaguars?
If the former....yes, some....but also a lot of TBD....to be determineds.
But, if JAX JAGS...just the one.
Just another guy.
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If you are talking about RBs taken in the top 5 of the draft since 2000 being in the Super Bowl....then the number is I think 3: Bush, Lewis, James
But if you ask....how many QBs taken since 2000 in the top 5 of the draft....then it is the same number: 3: Eli, Newton, Ryan.
Yes.. Anyone can basically skew this anyway they like I suppose.. But, I'm just of the mindset.. You take the QB you want #1 , And Live with the pick. then take BPA the rest of the draft... But yeah... We can split hairs all day long.. And the only denominator we'll come up with is theres really no exact science.. But on the other hand.. There have been tried and true processes for doing things "The right way"
Yes.. Anyone can basically skew this anyway they like I suppose.. But, I'm just of the mindset.. You take the QB you want #1 , And Live with the pick. then take BPA the rest of the draft... But yeah... We can split hairs all day long.. And the only denominator we'll come up with is theres really no exact science.. But on the other hand.. There have been tried and true processes for doing things "The right way"
Oh....don't get me wrong......I think we should take a qb #1. The big quandary though is: which one? As I am not really enamored of any of them....not really.
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Yes.. Anyone can basically skew this anyway they like I suppose.. But, I'm just of the mindset.. You take the QB you want #1 , And Live with the pick. then take BPA the rest of the draft... But yeah... We can split hairs all day long.. And the only denominator we'll come up with is theres really no exact science.. But on the other hand.. There have been tried and true processes for doing things "The right way"
Oh....don't get me wrong......I think we should take a qb #1. The big quandary though is: which one? As I am not really enamored of any of them....not really.
Oh....don't get me wrong......I think we should take a qb #1. The big quandary though is: which one? As I am not really enamored of any of them....not really.
Agreed ...... I guess Darnold or Rosen would be considered the safe picks.. But Mayfield is intriguing.. I think all QB's now a days come with some sort of asterisk.. Its not like the old days where., Every QB was pretty much a prototypical 6'4" , 220.. Stand in the pocket , drive the ball kind of QB. Today , It's like you have flavors.. Depending on your system and philosophy.. You go with the flavor that suits your needs..
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There are currently only 6 starting running backs in the NFL that were picked in the first round. And that's a great list and all but not complete without the busts picked up at running back in the top 5.
Please excuse my ignorance but who is gino Bernard.
Ok I looked it up and it was obviously just a typo as you meant gio Bernard cause he was picked 5th in the 2ND ROUND of the draft.
My list is only top 5 since the Browns have picks 1 and 4.
If you want me to include all top 5 RBs then all top 5 QBs should also be included.
Just because Trent Richardson was picked that high does not mean that he should have gone there.
My list is only top 5 since the Browns have picks 1 and 4.
If you want me to include all top 5 RBs then all top 5 QBs should also be included.
Just because Trent Richardson was picked that high does not mean that he should have gone there.
I fail to see what you are saying. From what I gathered you were saying we should draft Barkley because these running backs were picked in the top 5, excluding Giovanni who was picked 37th, and have all made the playoffs. Is that not what you were going for?
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Saquon Barkley - Carlos Hyde - Duke Johnson
That right there is an allstar running game
Josh Gordon - Jarvis Landry - Terrel Pryor - Corey Coleman
That right there is an allstar receiving group
Kevin Hogan - Tyrod Taylor - Baker Mayfield
That right there is a really strong QB room
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So how about that $100 bet PoG?
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#1 Barkley. ... Then ... Trade our #4 to Buffalo for #12 & #22 and select QB's Lamar Jackson & Mason Rudolph to be our #2 & #3 QB's. But I did see that the Browns signed Kevin Hogan today.
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Barkley is more "tried and true" than any of the QB's in the draft. I would go with this exceptional back and watch him & Duke Johnson catch short passes out of the backfield... There will still be at least 3 quality developmental QB's at #4.
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The Browns have been a "field goal" team for quite a while. They get near the red zone then end up settling for the field goal. I'm sick of it. It is time to seriously address the offense. #1 Barkley RB (Penn State).
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Franco Harris, Larry Csonka, Roger Craig, Terrell Davis, Mark Van Eaghan
And since 2000 = zero
#1 Barkley. ... Then ... Trade our #4 to Buffalo for #12 & #22 and select QB's Lamar Jackson & Mason Rudolph to be our #2 & #3 QB's. But I did see that the Browns signed Kevin Hogan today.
Welcome to the Po Barkley at #1 Club. It's not happening. Neither is Lamar Jackson.
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Yea, the Browns should drafted 2 1st rounders at QB, and then the rest get RBs. Each of the 4 QBs, assuming they stop at the 2 1sts, should get 1 quarter a game.
I mean it makes complete sense. Everyone says Tyrod sucks, 1 person (Not family) thinks Hogan is a franchise guy, and then getting consensus 5th and 6th ranked guys in the draft. I mean what could possibly be bad about that.
I mean from what I have seen, the Browns are only 4 QBs and Superman Barkley away from being the best team of ALL time
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Okay loddies and lassies, top of the morning to yuz! Watching the difference between top QB prospects become much less of a difference has me rethinking my way over to Barkley at #1. Hear me out first; because all of this time I was right where Mark O was on the QB vrs Barkley debate only he articulated our argument way better than me. He'll still have things I agree on except the reality that even our favorite QBs have more things to worry about than Barkley has. So, here goes the overcaffeinated world according to me:
If we don't start the run on QBs at #1 overall - isn't there still only 2 draft picks before we draft again at #4? And how many weeks will this be after the team with the most money to spend on a FA QB does so? And isn't it possible this is a unique year where 2-3 QBs can be very equivalent in what they offer because they all have some concerns? Aside from that, when the 2 other teams pick before our 4th spot - what guarantee do we have they will take the 1 we are slightly favoring? Whether I agree with the drool fest over Josh Allen or not - maybe it's a good thing he can throw the ball all the way to Canada just like Jamarcus Russell could. He could be one of the QBs that goes before we pick at #4 because someone will be willing to forget he only threw 16 TD passes last year against a lesser brand of corner and pass rushers with pedestrian accuracy. I know I know he LOVES football though. All it takes is 1 team that doesn't care about short game accuracy and the tighter windows of red zones. We've already gone the bionic arm route in lieu of accuracy with Weeden, Anderson and Kizer which are 3 very good reasons we still need a QB today right? They LOVED football too before they realized their lack of accuracy in a world that requires fitting air tight windows in congested red zones them feeling like a McCoy surrounded by 65,000 Hatfields. It's been like a never ending video to the song "You Lost that Loving Feeling..."
YES, Mayfield and Darnold are my not-so-perfect faves but much to my surprise Rosen (with a lot of help from SD Tom's persistence and media examples at the combines) got me to see him in ways I was previously unwilling to - closed some serious ground on both. I don't give a rat what he said when he was 17 that has been so blow out of context to look like he just said those things 4-5 years later. And when he questioned which sport he was better between his #1 ranking in tennis vrs his #1 QB ranking in Rivals and Scout - that's not a lack of love or passion for the sport he chose at 17. It's probably something a lot of people would question. I also find it interesting that some of his previous critics at the football camp back before he was a senior in high school have made it a point to say he's a lot more mature today to the extent they've changed their opinion of him for the better. The last Head Coach he had gave him far better reviews than Justin Gilbert's college Head Coach had for all healthy consumers.
So WHY have I about faced my opinion to take a RB first especially in a draft that is so deep at the position? As I've looked at all of the RBs in the draft, a lot of them aren't going to be 3 down RBs in the NFL because they lack the 1 thing Barkley might be very underrated at. Catching the football out of the backfield aside from his ideal size to handle a bigger work load. He had 54 receptions for 632 yards and 3 TDs to go with his 1200+ yards and 18 TDs on the ground aside from his kickoff returns for TDs. If you're not impressed - you simply don't want to be. The only RB that resembles Barkley is SDSU's Rashaad Penny but there's no guarantees he's on our doorstep later in the draft. Meanwhile, Sony Michel I thought was an ideal alternative only had 9 receptions in 14-15 games while his playing weight of about 215 lbs reminds us he'll stay a part time RB.
Barkley has better gears than Duke Johnson without the history of injury Duke had at the U - which ultimately made his NFL taker understand how much of a workload he'd handle best. Right now, we don't have a scoring threat on the roster inclusive of the Josh Gordon who has only scored 1 TD in his only 10 starts since 2013. Barkley is good for the passing game and our running game without us tipping off tendencies using 2 different guys all the time. If you want to recruit the interest of a FA QB - you tell him you are going to give him Barkley like Polian equipped Peyton Manning with Marshall Faulk in his first NFL huddle and then Edge James thereafter. When Faulk went to the Rams, a little known QB named Kurt Warner at 29 years of age enjoyed a RB that could bury the blitz with TD receptions all the way to a Pro Bowl and MVP caliber season punctuated with a Superbowl Championship. For that matter, there's Dak Prescott WITH Zeke and WITHOUT Zeke - can you guess which version made him Rookie of the Year?
In adding Barkley, we don't need to draft another RB. We get our Marshall Faulk that can score from anywhere on the field in the pass game or running game. Meanwhile, as all the other teams are in those runs drafting RBs in this deep draft - this gets us looking at WRs and DBs and a dual purpose TE like Oklahoma's Mark Andrews. We also have Free Agency and the most money to spend on some yes price tags we finally HAVE to compete for (rather than overpaying the Jamar Taylor we still need to upgrade causing us to double-dip anyway). You get what you pay for and the unwillingness to compete for the better guys often causes desperate knee jerk overpayments on bums/has-beens like Dwayne Bowe and Kenny Brat.
The biggest difference between Barkley and the first QB is every top QB we consider gives us at least 1-2 more concerns than Barkley does. The good news? There's only 2 picks between who we take at #1 and when we pick again. We're going to add QBs with as much money as we have for FA as well as up as high as #4 overall. Barkley and these 2 QBs plus three 2nd round picks plus the 1st pick of round 3?
All this from a guy that was getting a huge kick out of the "Love PO tion #9" Springbreak girls gone wild caliber passion packed threads recruiting the testosterone to throw down and polarize. IMO, this is a classic example of letting some things settle before racing to a final conclusion far before it's necessary. My mind may change again but I'm enjoying the excitement of the opportunity this experienced FO (with proven success in the draft, free agency and trades) has in front of it.
Just reading through this thread. Did not want to lose this bit...
As I've looked at all of the RBs in the draft, a lot of them aren't going to be 3 down RBs
Flugs... in all sincerity... Why should we care about this? What is the value of a 3-down RB when no RB plays more than 2/3rds of the snaps in a game anymore?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Even though I have said this before, I will again. I dont dislike Barkley. I also don't think he will be a bust. What I do dislike is the constant overhyping of him. And then countless pages upon pages of him, and the refusal of any Superman fan to discuss 1 bit of his question marks.
He is NOT more important than the right QB, even if he is close to ask great as we hear daily. Running backs just don't have the longevity of others in the league either.
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Okay loddies and lassies, top of the morning to yuz! Watching the difference between top QB prospects become much less of a difference has me rethinking my way over to Barkley at #1. Hear me out first; because all of this time I was right where Mark O was on the QB vrs Barkley debate only he articulated our argument way better than me. He'll still have things I agree on except the reality that even our favorite QBs have more things to worry about than Barkley has. So, here goes the overcaffeinated world according to me:
If we don't start the run on QBs at #1 overall - isn't there still only 2 draft picks before we draft again at #4? And how many weeks will this be after the team with the most money to spend on a FA QB does so? And isn't it possible this is a unique year where 2-3 QBs can be very equivalent in what they offer because they all have some concerns? Aside from that, when the 2 other teams pick before our 4th spot - what guarantee do we have they will take the 1 we are slightly favoring? Whether I agree with the drool fest over Josh Allen or not - maybe it's a good thing he can throw the ball all the way to Canada just like Jamarcus Russell could. He could be one of the QBs that goes before we pick at #4 because someone will be willing to forget he only threw 16 TD passes last year against a lesser brand of corner and pass rushers with pedestrian accuracy. I know I know he LOVES football though. All it takes is 1 team that doesn't care about short game accuracy and the tighter windows of red zones. We've already gone the bionic arm route in lieu of accuracy with Weeden, Anderson and Kizer which are 3 very good reasons we still need a QB today right? They LOVED football too before they realized their lack of accuracy in a world that requires fitting air tight windows in congested red zones them feeling like a McCoy surrounded by 65,000 Hatfields. It's been like a never ending video to the song "You Lost that Loving Feeling..."
YES, Mayfield and Darnold are my not-so-perfect faves but much to my surprise Rosen (with a lot of help from SD Tom's persistence and media examples at the combines) got me to see him in ways I was previously unwilling to - closed some serious ground on both. I don't give a rat what he said when he was 17 that has been so blow out of context to look like he just said those things 4-5 years later. And when he questioned which sport he was better between his #1 ranking in tennis vrs his #1 QB ranking in Rivals and Scout - that's not a lack of love or passion for the sport he chose at 17. It's probably something a lot of people would question. I also find it interesting that some of his previous critics at the football camp back before he was a senior in high school have made it a point to say he's a lot more mature today to the extent they've changed their opinion of him for the better. The last Head Coach he had gave him far better reviews than Justin Gilbert's college Head Coach had for all healthy consumers.
So WHY have I about faced my opinion to take a RB first especially in a draft that is so deep at the position? As I've looked at all of the RBs in the draft, a lot of them aren't going to be 3 down RBs in the NFL because they lack the 1 thing Barkley might be very underrated at. Catching the football out of the backfield aside from his ideal size to handle a bigger work load. He had 54 receptions for 632 yards and 3 TDs to go with his 1200+ yards and 18 TDs on the ground aside from his kickoff returns for TDs. If you're not impressed - you simply don't want to be. The only RB that resembles Barkley is SDSU's Rashaad Penny but there's no guarantees he's on our doorstep later in the draft. Meanwhile, Sony Michel I thought was an ideal alternative only had 9 receptions in 14-15 games while his playing weight of about 215 lbs reminds us he'll stay a part time RB.
Barkley has better gears than Duke Johnson without the history of injury Duke had at the U - which ultimately made his NFL taker understand how much of a workload he'd handle best. Right now, we don't have a scoring threat on the roster inclusive of the Josh Gordon who has only scored 1 TD in his only 10 starts since 2013. Barkley is good for the passing game and our running game without us tipping off tendencies using 2 different guys all the time. If you want to recruit the interest of a FA QB - you tell him you are going to give him Barkley like Polian equipped Peyton Manning with Marshall Faulk in his first NFL huddle and then Edge James thereafter. When Faulk went to the Rams, a little known QB named Kurt Warner at 29 years of age enjoyed a RB that could bury the blitz with TD receptions all the way to a Pro Bowl and MVP caliber season punctuated with a Superbowl Championship. For that matter, there's Dak Prescott WITH Zeke and WITHOUT Zeke - can you guess which version made him Rookie of the Year?
In adding Barkley, we don't need to draft another RB. We get our Marshall Faulk that can score from anywhere on the field in the pass game or running game. Meanwhile, as all the other teams are in those runs drafting RBs in this deep draft - this gets us looking at WRs and DBs and a dual purpose TE like Oklahoma's Mark Andrews. We also have Free Agency and the most money to spend on some yes price tags we finally HAVE to compete for (rather than overpaying the Jamar Taylor we still need to upgrade causing us to double-dip anyway). You get what you pay for and the unwillingness to compete for the better guys often causes desperate knee jerk overpayments on bums/has-beens like Dwayne Bowe and Kenny Brat.
The biggest difference between Barkley and the first QB is every top QB we consider gives us at least 1-2 more concerns than Barkley does. The good news? There's only 2 picks between who we take at #1 and when we pick again. We're going to add QBs with as much money as we have for FA as well as up as high as #4 overall. Barkley and these 2 QBs plus three 2nd round picks plus the 1st pick of round 3?
All this from a guy that was getting a huge kick out of the "Love PO tion #9" Springbreak girls gone wild caliber passion packed threads recruiting the testosterone to throw down and polarize. IMO, this is a classic example of letting some things settle before racing to a final conclusion far before it's necessary. My mind may change again but I'm enjoying the excitement of the opportunity this experienced FO (with proven success in the draft, free agency and trades) has in front of it.
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I don't trust their stats, period.
I just went and watched Penn States first game against the Zips last year and Barkley had 15 missed or broken tackles in the first quarter alone.
cowpoop propaganda.
I don't trust their stats, period.
I just went and watched Penn States first game against the Zips last year and Barkley had 15 missed or broken tackles in the first quarter alone.
cowpoop propaganda.
This is the most pure example of cognitive dissonance available on the Browns board (and there’s a lot of it)
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Long and winding road to get thru this maze of a thread... including a Goethe quote... very classy.... and here's the capsule summary.
- If you truly, believe you can throw a rug over the top of this QB class, then you can take Barkley at #1.
- However, if you see one QB stand out, apart from the others, then you cannot do anything but take that QB at #1... and I do not care which QB anyone thinks is that standout... even if it's cal's bag of rocks... you draft that QB... period.
Why? Because the right QB is foundational while the best RB is not.
POP QUIZ: Who was the Eagles leading back in 2017? Who was NYG's leading RB in each of their last two SB seasons?
More often than not the the top RB in a class is a finishing touch. Zeke was in Dallas after they found Dak... Gurley was with the Rams after Foles was acquired to solve their QB issues... so too might Barkley be for a team like NYG... but I doubt it.
Why? So far none of these final pieces have turned into SB gold, but it's early.
Meanwhile SB s have been won with the likes of Brandon Jacobs and Ahmad Bradshaw the leading rushers on the last two NYG championship teams. A fact I do not believe will be lost on NYG this time either should, please God, we pass on Barkley at #1 overall.
Oh... and that Eagles RB? LaGarette Blount... same guy who was with the Pats while they were winning the prior SB.
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And in case anyone was wondering... I see a clear standout QB in this draft... shocker... and yes, it is still Josh Rosen, but that's old news.
What's new and should be a lot more fun... as it'll blow Camp Saquon minds... is speculating on how far might he fall.
Here's a scenario...
- We go QB at #1 because Dorsey sees his guy.
- NYG, who neither needs a QB right now nor is a RB away from a SB, trades down to a QB hungry team... Broncos, Jets or Bills, but they want to stay as high as possible to land their Stud OG so it's Denver who promptly takes their new QB.
- Colts... need a lot of help especially on D. I think they trade back for the next QB hungry team and that team is BUF. With two QBs gone if their guy is still on the board, they go and I think win the bidding war for the pick.
- Back to us... Saquon here? Maybe, but again we are not a RB away. Problem is the QB market is drying up and with it the trade value of our #4, but the Giants via the trade down with Denver are still between us and the Jets. Might be enough for the Jets to move up and give us their 2nd rounder.... and they take the last of the top four QBs.
- NYG... I don't think they can resist Quentin Nelson here and may well dip back into the OG pool with their 2nd Round pick.
- Us... again... Saquon here? Nah... no fun in that, but we just might get a call or two from teams that believe they are a RB away. Who might these teams be?
- #7 overall, Tampa Bay. They are the top team I can see that might believe they are a RB away. Moving up one spot would be a defensive move, but hell... we've done that.
- The Raiders at #10 are a candidate. While they still have BeastMode, those results were mixed last season.
- Beyond that I think it becomes a free for all between GB (#14), Ravens (#16), Seahawks (#18) and Lions (#20) to see who can pull together the best move up package.
GB would be a great fit for Barkley. Can't see dealing in the Division. Hawks and Lions are down there quite a ways.
Far fetched? Maybe, but when runs on a position start far-fetched things can happen... especially when QBs are involved. RBs? Maybe in round 2...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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