Exactly when did "everyone" here climb onto the Chubb train? And why?
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Choo choo
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Also, paging Tiamat. He seemed to have sat down and looked over the film on Chubb.
Also, paging Tiamat. He seemed to have sat down and looked over the film on Chubb.
Had to get caught up with this thread.
My appreciation of Chubb mirrors what I said when I watched his tape - he isn't elite at any one thing 'YET'. But is one of the more complete edge defenders I've seen in a while. Hand usage, bend, an inside move, stacking/shed, gap discipline, motor, balance, angles, quickness and power. To me he is the perfect compliment to MG. Is he the specimen Myles is? - No. But then again there are probably only a few humans on the entire planet with that kind of physical skill set. Bradley flashes the little things, the technical things that only need to be refined and attacked with continuous improvement. It's not like drafting Mingo based on him being an athlete then asking him to play the position while trying to learn and utilize on the fly. I don't picture that being an issue here. I see BG as being one of the "safest" picks in this draft. Right up there with Ridley in that mold, I just feel he'll make a quality pro from day 1.
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No thanks on Chubb. Isn't elite in the way Garrett is. Just over hyped
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Was it the Combine?
EDIT: I did find this...
... but it doesn't come close to explaining the shift in the few weeks I was gone.
For one thing, it's the position. Pass rush DE is widely considered a "premium" position in the NFL, right up there with QB. Chubb has the size, the motor, the resumè, AND is as solid at "setting the edge" and stopping the run as he is getting to the QB. Additionally, Chubb would provide instant depth at a key position, and our LACK of this depth was certainly on display last year when both Garrett and Ogbah missed time. Some of our fans weren't as high on Ogbah, but the fact remains that he was VERY good at setting the edge, and when he went out, teams were able to run much easier to his side. There was just too much of a drop off when he went out, and of course when Garrett got dinged up, that was felt too.
Aside from depth, selecting Chubb would enable us tremendous flexibility on the DL, especially during passing situations. Both Ogbah and Garrett are adept at lining up in the inside to rush the QB, and adding in a talent like Chubb would let Gregg think up all kinds of different rushes designed at getting the ideal mismatch, but most importantly, Chubb might let the Browns get more pressure WITHOUT blitzes. We all know that Gregg Williams blitzed too much, and he did this because we simply couldn't generate enough pressure with our front four. As I've said before, watch a team like Jacksonville, or even Minnesota. They get such magnificent pressure without blitzing too much, and this of course allows them to keep their linebackers and DBs in coverage so they aren't as susceptible to screen passes, misdirection, and they have more congestion and more bodies to make it harder to squeeze the ball in there. Furthermore, your defense isn't as vulnerable against mobile QBs because you've got your defenders in better position to bring down the running QB, as opposed to blitzing and running right by him.
QB pressure is everything in the NFL, we know this. Pressure creates mistakes, fumbles, interceptions, happy feet, nervousness, and if you're getting consistent pressure with 4, you're probably not giving up as many deep passes because those routes obviously take longer to develop. One of the many stats our defense ranked lowly in was....creating turnovers. Much of that has to do with our severe inability to create pressure. We didn't force enough errant passes, tip enough balls, strip the QB, or whatever. Drafting Chubb could really have a trickle down effect that could translate into game-changing turnovers for our team. Something we've been so AWFUL at recently. Not only did we GIVE it away like none other, we didn't TAKE IT AWAY either.
Now, you CANNOT take Bradley Chubb #1 if you're the Cleveland Browns. Why? Because we need to draft our favorite QB first, and there's a very good chance he won't be there at #4 because the Jets gave up a TON to move to 3 for a QB, and it's likely that a QB will be selected at #2, either by the Giants or a team that trades up with them (more likely). Also, Bradley Chubb is not Myles Garrett. They are different players, although more similar than you might think. For one, Chubb is a "very good" athlete, whereas Myles Garrett is an otherworldly athlete. Chubb wasn't some elite prospect out of high school, and he made himself into a star with hard work and dedication. Nothing was given to him. Myles Garrett was the biggest prospect coming out of KINDERGARTEN, and he continued to be a physical freak from there and into each level of school afterwards. Some of us weren't COMPLETELY satisfied with Myles as a rookie, but honestly, that freak injury he suffered 4 days before the first game really hindered his development and impact. No, I don't think he's injury prone or soft. It was bad luck, and then I think there was an adjustment period for Gregg Williams where he tried to figure out how to use him, and then when Ogbah went out, teams had nobody else to worry about.
If Chubb really is the real deal, we not only have depth at a key position, we potentially have a guy who can set the edge, sack the QB, give us flexibility, and the icing on the cake is he's a super high character guy. I LOVE players who weren't highly recruited and then turned into studs because you KNOW nothing was given to them, and they worked their BUTTS off. I desperately want a defense like the Jags have, and after they got their front 7 solidified, they pieced together their secondary with guys like Jaylen Ramsey. Maybe our front 7 is good enough without Chubb. Perhaps we copy the Jags and go for Minkah Fitzpatrick with the 4th pick. I'd be COMPLETELY fine with that, as long as he's proficient at playing corner. Damarious Randall is now our starting free safety, so Fitzpatrick would be the 4th pick who would then learn a new position. That sounds somewhat risky, although I've heard Fitzpatrick did play some corner and he's not expected to have difficulty with the transition. At any rate, these are the two guys I want at #4, and one, if not both, will be there for us at 4 if we do the right thing and take our QB at #1. Yes, Saquon would be fun, but we're not taking a RB that early, and we aren't going "offense-offense" with our first 2 picks in the draft.
Also, Bradley Chubb is not Myles Garrett. They are different players, although more similar than you might think. For one, Chubb is a "very good" athlete, whereas Myles Garrett is an otherworldly athlete. Chubb wasn't some elite prospect out of high school, and he made himself into a star with hard work and dedication.
This... I guess where I take this is that Chubb's ceiling is about where MG's floor is. Chubb has maxxed out his ability so his production can only decline at the next level, whereas MG still has layers to add.
Let's compare to Bosa, who I admit I did not see coming.
- Height, weight, strength are a push.
- Chubb has a decent advantage in speed and burst.
- Bosa blows Chubb away is in agility.
Again I think we have different players. I think it is Bosa's agility edge that gives him the opportunity to succeed with 2ndary moves.
Still not seeing a #4 overall...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
From the people who voted, most would rather take Minkah or Barkley ahead of Chubb. http://thebrownsboard.com/topic/49472-poll-if-you-could-only-pick-one/
From the people who voted, most would rather take Minkah or Barkley ahead of Chubb. http://thebrownsboard.com/topic/49472-poll-if-you-could-only-pick-one/
Just added one to the Minkah tally. Not my top FS or CB, but his versatility to play either at a high level has added value as we sort things out in our revamped 2ndary.
My appreciation of Chubb mirrors what I said when I watched his tape - he isn't elite at any one thing 'YET'. But is one of the more complete edge defenders I've seen in a while. Hand usage, bend, an inside move, stacking/shed, gap discipline, motor, balance, angles, quickness and power. To me he is the perfect compliment to MG. Is he the specimen Myles is? - No. But then again there are probably only a few humans on the entire planet with that kind of physical skill set. Bradley flashes the little things, the technical things that only need to be refined and attacked with continuous improvement. It's not like drafting Mingo based on him being an athlete then asking him to play the position while trying to learn and utilize on the fly. I don't picture that being an issue here. I see BG as being one of the "safest" picks in this draft. Right up there with Ridley in that mold, I just feel he'll make a quality pro from day 1.
Couple questions:
- Are you echoing my "floor/ceiling" theme in my above prior post?
- Is "safest" the same as warranted? If the Bills came calling waiving their two #1's can you pass on Chubb for that deal? If you stay at #4 with only QBs off the board at 1 thru 3, is Chubb your pick? If not, where is he in your board order at #4?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
The DE is one of the strongest positions on the team.
Garrett - Ogbah - Nassib - Orchard
Use the #1 overall or even the #4 to add yet ANOTHER DE?
Ogbah and Garrett are going to start, then you have Nassib/Orchard rotating in already.
We've already invested a first and 3 second rounders on DEs...
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Also, Bradley Chubb is not Myles Garrett. They are different players, although more similar than you might think. For one, Chubb is a "very good" athlete, whereas Myles Garrett is an otherworldly athlete. Chubb wasn't some elite prospect out of high school, and he made himself into a star with hard work and dedication.
This... I guess where I take this is that Chubb's ceiling is about where MG's floor is. Chubb has maxxed out his ability so his production can only decline at the next level, whereas MG still has layers to add.
Let's compare to Bosa, who I admit I did not see coming.
- Height, weight, strength are a push.
- Chubb has a decent advantage in speed and burst.
- Bosa blows Chubb away is in agility.
Again I think we have different players. I think it is Bosa's agility edge that gives him the opportunity to succeed with 2ndary moves.
Still not seeing a #4 overall...
This... I guess where I take this is that Chubb's ceiling is about where MG's floor is. Chubb has maxxed out his ability so his production can only decline at the next level, whereas MG still has layers to add.
Let's compare to Bosa, who I admit I did not see coming.
- Height, weight, strength are a push.
- Chubb has a decent advantage in speed and burst.
- Bosa blows Chubb away is in agility.
Again I think we have different players. I think it is Bosa's agility edge that gives him the opportunity to succeed with 2ndary moves.
Still not seeing a #4 overall...
That stuff is important but technique and hand placement things like that are very similar between the two, and that's what made bosa so good. You may not have seen it coming but watching his hand fighting his inside move his technique is what made me sure he was going to be a great a de and I see the same thing with chubb. Not the most athletic like bosa isn't but both better than average and they more than make up for the gap with technique.
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I personally think Chubb mania is a result of Sportscenter and biology.
You fall asleep watching draft coverage on ESPN. You hear the same 5 names, Chubb being among them.
Then you wake up with a chubb and see it as a cosmic sign.
Nobody wakes up with a Fitzpatrick. Or if you do, you see it as a much less positive omen.
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He's a disruptive force. They're tossing his name around with Khalil Mack and Joey Bosa.
In his three years as a starter at N.C. State, Chubb has racked up 192 tackles, 53.5 tackles for loss, 25 sacks, and six forced fumbles.
To put it in perspective, Joey Bosa played a single game more than Chubb and had 44 fewer tackles, 2.5 fewer tackles for loss, one more sack, and one less forced fumble.
In his three years as a starter at N.C. State, Chubb has racked up 192 tackles, 53.5 tackles for loss, 25 sacks, and six forced fumbles.
To put it in perspective, Joey Bosa played a single game more than Chubb and had 44 fewer tackles, 2.5 fewer tackles for loss, one more sack, and one less forced fumble.
https://www.fanragsports.com/nfl-draft/bradley-chubb-cream-of-crop-in-2018-nfl-draft-edge-class/
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
No thanks on Chubb. Isn't elite in the way Garrett is. Just over hyped
Bosa didn't have amazing combine numbers like Garrett, but he's already one of the most dominant in the game. If Chubb is anything like Bosa or Mack, that's a line to get any QB nervous.
They said the same thing about Bosa... "He's maxed out his technique... not fast enough to win consistently at the next level....production fell his last season" All complete bs. He's dominated from game one.
We got about zero pressure on opposing QB's last season when Garrett wasn't in the game. They had all day to throw the ball.
"overhyped" is your avatar
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In his three years as a starter at N.C. State, Chubb has racked up 192 tackles, 53.5 tackles for loss, 25 sacks, and six forced fumbles.
To put it in perspective, Joey Bosa played a single game more than Chubb and had 44 fewer tackles, 2.5 fewer tackles for loss, one more sack, and one less forced fumble.
https://www.fanragsports.com/nfl-draft/bradley-chubb-cream-of-crop-in-2018-nfl-draft-edge-class/
https://www.fanragsports.com/nfl-draft/bradley-chubb-cream-of-crop-in-2018-nfl-draft-edge-class/
He killed FSU's QB in the highlights I saw. I was almost more impressed the QB got up after some of those hits than the hits themselves.
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Today's NFL is Pass & Rush the Passer.
If he's the best pass rusher in the draft then at 4 pair him with Myles...as Myles could use the help. (ability to rush the passer is huge for a team)
The 'Pass' part is more than just the QB...but it certainly STARTS with the QB. (pick #1) There needs to be receivers that know how to run routes and get separation. (and catch the damn ball) You have to be able to block people to give TIME to pass and room for your RB's to help out the offense.
Best QB in the draft at #1 and best Pass Rusher in the draft at #4. Wow. The 2 most critical parts of the game...in 45 minutes.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
My problem is that there are lots of very good to elite RB's in this draft. Probably not to the level of Saquon but guys who are pro-bowlers. There are not that with the edge rushers and Chubb is very good at just about everything. He's the top player at that position. The options with moving him, Garrett, Ogbah all over the line is fun to think about. Also, Fitzpatrick is a stud, but there are also very good cover corners in this draft that could be had in the late first/early second. Minkah is very versatile which is what his greatest appeal is.
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This... I guess where I take this is that Chubb's ceiling is about where MG's floor is. Chubb has maxxed out his ability so his production can only decline at the next level, whereas MG still has layers to add.
Let's compare to Bosa, who I admit I did not see coming.
- Height, weight, strength are a push.
- Chubb has a decent advantage in speed and burst.
- Bosa blows Chubb away is in agility.
Again I think we have different players. I think it is Bosa's agility edge that gives him the opportunity to succeed with 2ndary moves.
Still not seeing a #4 overall...
That stuff is important but technique and hand placement things like that are very similar between the two, and that's what made bosa so good. You may not have seen it coming but watching his hand fighting his inside move his technique is what made me sure he was going to be a great a de and I see the same thing with chubb. Not the most athletic like bosa isn't but both better than average and they more than make up for the gap with technique.
Agree on the RBs and even on Minkah, but if we aren't sure whether we need a FS or a CB... and we aren't... then Minkah becomes a very attractive pick if you are trapped at #4.
(Chubb is) Not the most athletic like bosa isn't but both better than average and they more than make up for the gap with technique.
I grant you he has the tech... but so do a lot more OTs at the next level. It's why I say Chubb may be as good as he'll ever be.
Where we differ is when you say "like Bosa". Chubb is "not the most athletic" in ways that are different than how Bosa is "not the most athletic". That makes me question whether Bosa's success at the next level translates to Chubb.
Again... I am not seeing bad or bust or anything of the sort... I'm just not seeing great. And at #4 any player you take needs to be great. And that's not just my view of Chubb.
Someone offers me a handful of picks for the #4 including one in or near the top ten... I'm outta there. Realistically ask yourself what kind of offer it'd take you to give up Chubb at #4.
I sat in this slosh fest in 2016...
That was his 3-sack game. McGlinchey is not exactly a stern test now let alone in 2016...
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Don't overthink it.
The reason that people may be jumping on the Chubb bandwagon is simply the fact that they are dreaming of having two stud DEs starting in the DL....and hopefully reeking havoc on the opposing QBs.
Now...if some of you do not think he is all that and a bag of chips...so be it. But he IS almost universally rated in like the TOP 3 or Top 5 prospects in this entire draft. Not that a guy thought to be top 5 prospect cannot be a bust....or be mediocre relative to his draft position. Its just that there is that dream there of the Browns having their version of the Doomsday Defense/Purple People Eaters/Fearsome Foursome etc.
By the way....when is the last time a defensive line got one of those really cool nicknames?
I came up with GOONS for Garrett, Ogbah, Ogunobi, Nassib, Shelton. But Shelton is gone. So, what could it be?
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lol... Be ye a Chubb fan or not you need to see this and stick all the way thru it to the end...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Plus this...
Ryan HannableVerified account @RyanHannable
According to
@TonyPauline, Bill Belichick told a number of people at NC State's pro day today how impressed he was by DE Bradley Chubb.12:27 PM - 19 Mar 2018"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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