From nobody to the top of the first round of the draft - Josh Allen
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Brace yourself Cal... I totally agree with you.
Regarding Wentz. I thought, "Grab him, act like you never even had the pick. Get that guy into your system now." Work under center. Loved the way his eyes worked downfield on his dropback. Very aggressive.
Starting to feel the same way about Allen here, especially since we have the 4.
It appears he defines late bloomer. Not much to see in high school, coming on strong now late in college. He also seems to respond to coaching.
If our plan is to sit our guy for TT, get this kid into our system now. Let him learn our way.
I know, weak analysis, unsupported by acumen. May well be my calling card.
I have lunch with an Eagles fan every day who heard me say that about Wentz and he wonders what the hell our front office is thinking.
Defillipo went to the Eagles after here, he had scouted Wentz for us. Did he sabotage the Wentz file when we fired him and take the good file to Philly?
Freaking turnover... -
Watched the NFLN coverage of Allen's work out. Here's my take... first the good.
- It was a good Pro day.
- Feet were actually quite good in drops. While the snap was not in every 5 and 7, it was in a lot of them.
- Not a sign of the hopping Darnold showed either in his sets or his hitches.
- Mechanically he looked good throwing from his spot so long as he could throw it flat and hard.
- "His spot" included the programmed rollouts in both directions. Some of his best throws were on the run.
And now the rest...
- There were throws within the above criteria that were simply off the mark... high... wrong side... low... and in slo-mo looks there was no obvious reason for the miss.
- He threw a lot of "impressive" fast balls on a rope, e.g., 15 and 20-yd outs, that under coverage will feast upon albeit at the cost of some jammed fingers.
- Ask for touch and it's not there... and matters not if it's a swingpass to a RB or a 60-yd bomb.
- Push him off his spot as Palmer was simulating and he loses his feet. Those throws tended to be arm-throws.
- Those final few throws were an absolute joke... no QB needs to be able to throw punts.
Bottom Line: Allen looks to have to "think" about any throw that is not a fastball in rhythm. Mayock says his sources said the kid's a thinker. Other reports I've read... not so much.
I really lost a lot of respect for Mayock today. I would not have been nearly as diplomatic as Bucky Brooks was in the phrasing of his WTF-ish questions for Mike. But at least Mike did not list us among the teams that were a good landing spot for Allen.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Watched the NFLN coverage of Allen's work out. Here's my take... first the good.
- It was a good Pro day.
- Feet were actually quite good in drops. While the snap was not in every 5 and 7, it was in a lot of them.
- Not a sign of the hopping Darnold showed either in his sets or his hitches.
- Mechanically he looked good throwing from his spot so long as he could throw it flat and hard.
- "His spot" included the programmed rollouts in both directions. Some of his best throws were on the run.
And now the rest...
- There were throws within the above criteria that were simply off the mark... high... wrong side... low... and in slo-mo looks there was no obvious reason for the miss.
- He threw a lot of "impressive" fast balls on a rope, e.g., 15 and 20-yd outs, that under coverage will feast upon albeit at the cost of some jammed fingers.
- Ask for touch and it's not there... and matters not if it's a swingpass to a RB or a 60-yd bomb.
- Push him off his spot as Palmer was simulating and he loses his feet. Those throws tended to be arm-throws.
- Those final few throws were an absolute joke... no QB needs to be able to throw punts.
Bottom Line: Allen looks to have to "think" about any throw that is not a fastball in rhythm. Mayock says his sources said the kid's a thinker. Other reports I've read... not so much.
I really lost a lot of respect for Mayock today. I would not have been nearly as diplomatic as Bucky Brooks was in the phrasing of his WTF-ish questions for Mike. But at least Mike did not list us among the teams that were a good landing spot for Allen.
I really lost a lot of respect for Mayock today. I would not have been nearly as diplomatic as Bucky Brooks was in the phrasing of his WTF-ish questions for Mike. But at least Mike did not list us among the teams that were a good landing spot for Allen.
While I think Allen is in play for the Browns at #1, I can't stress how much of a mistake I think this is.
I can't think of a more Brownsish move.
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After watching the pro day I like his short and intermediate throws, but most of those deep ones verified what I saw in games, overthrows deep receivers consistently. I do feel he has improved his intermediate "out" throws to the sidelines. Before he was just not very good at hitting those. He's been working on them for sure.
I'm sure he has the arm for deep throws, even if you discount the affect of thin air @ 7000 ft. in Laramie.
Ditto...
Hey that rhymed.
By the way, watching these throws - kid is still very inaccurate.
WAY less accurate than Darnold.
He's a pussy for throwing indoors. If he wanted to impress he should've been outside throwing since last I checked, every team in the top of the draft is a cold weather team that plays outdoors.
He could have thrown outside, I agree. Checked the Laramie weather- it was 50 degrees today.
He could have thrown outside, I agree. Checked the Laramie weather- it was 50 degrees today.
It isn't the temperature you needed to check, but the wind speed. Most people don't know that Cheyenne was rated the 2nd most windy city in the US (Missoula, Mont was #1) with an average wind speed 24 hours a day for a year of over 13 mph. Laramie is not to far W from there up in a gap in the Rockies so if there is any kind of front coming through west to east it can easily hit 30-50 mph any given day. BTW I left Cheyenne after living there 5 years. Too damn windy, cold and snowy for me.
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I see where his Wr's are just that bad🥷.They say the pro game is faster.Hope his WR's are. It may help him? I can see where Palmer has done some work on his loft to get some air under the ball hoping receivers catch up but it only proved successful twice maybe a 3rd with a receiver with any kind of hands. What you don't want to see is a deep ball hung up short..That happened once.Allen has done some tinkering work with Palmer.Maybe in Allens head but so will any NFL QB coach. Like Kizer, this Kid really does not need to see the field this up coming season. He needs to be drafted into a good QB situation..But that rarely ever happens in this QB starving league..If Elway wants Allen? He can sit at 6 & pick him..I'd pass & take BPA at 6 & that's not Allen playing in 2018
I see where his Wr's are just that bad🥷.They say the pro game is faster.Hope his WR's are. It may help him? I can see where Palmer has done some work on his loft to get some air under the ball hoping receivers catch up but it only proved successful twice maybe a 3rd with a receiver with any kind of hands. What you don't want to see is a deep ball hung up short..That happened once.Allen has done some tinkering work with Palmer.Maybe in Allens head but so will any NFL QB coach. Like Kizer, this Kid really does not need to see the field this up coming season. He needs to be drafted into a good QB situation..But that rarely ever happens in this QB starving league..If Elway wants Allen? He can sit at 6 & pick him..I'd pass & take BPA at 6 & that's not Allen playing in 2018
That's true Gumby. Some interesting points. I'm just not sure guys that aren't accurate in college become accurate in NFL any more than receivers with the dropsies suddenly cure them at the next level. I've been wrong before though.
To the part in bold above, I'm sure the pass rushers and corners are faster than the ones that already rendered him pedestrian in the 2nd tier conference he played in. I've already seen some bionic arms here that struggled with football IQ, accuracy and vision to perpetuate their inconsistencies on outta here. You gotta have some of those to throw guys open. DA used to struggle most with short game, which gets increasingly important when time to throw is a challnge. 1 workout without defenders challenging mind, time to throw, accuracy and mechanics won't do anything but tell me Allen can throw a football as far as Jamarcus Russell.
As far as Elway goes, he's fallen for Brock O twice and Paxton Lynch once to remind me it hasn't been nearly as easy as recruiting a HOF QB in progress (Manning).
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I see where his Wr's are just that bad🥷.They say the pro game is faster.Hope his WR's are. It may help him? I can see where Palmer has done some work on his loft to get some air under the ball hoping receivers catch up but it only proved successful twice maybe a 3rd with a receiver with any kind of hands. What you don't want to see is a deep ball hung up short..That happened once.Allen has done some tinkering work with Palmer.Maybe in Allens head but so will any NFL QB coach. Like Kizer, this Kid really does not need to see the field this up coming season. He needs to be drafted into a good QB situation..But that rarely ever happens in this QB starving league..If Elway wants Allen? He can sit at 6 & pick him..I'd pass & take BPA at 6 & that's not Allen playing in 2018
That's true Gumby. Some interesting points. I'm just not sure guys that aren't accurate in college become accurate in NFL any more than receivers with the dropsies suddenly cure them at the next level. I've been wrong before though.
To the part in bold above, I'm sure the pass rushers and corners are faster than the ones that already rendered him pedestrian in the 2nd tier conference he played in. I've already seen some bionic arms here that struggled with football IQ, accuracy and vision to perpetuate their inconsistencies on outta here. You gotta have some of those to throw guys open. DA used to struggle most with short game, which gets increasingly important when time to throw is a challnge. 1 workout without defenders challenging mind, time to throw, accuracy and mechanics won't do anything but tell me Allen can throw a football as far as Jamarcus Russell.
As far as Elway goes, he's fallen for Brock O twice and Paxton Lynch once to remind me it hasn't been nearly as easy as recruiting a HOF QB in progress (Manning).
That's true Gumby. Some interesting points. I'm just not sure guys that aren't accurate in college become accurate in NFL any more than receivers with the dropsies suddenly cure them at the next level. I've been wrong before though.
To the part in bold above, I'm sure the pass rushers and corners are faster than the ones that already rendered him pedestrian in the 2nd tier conference he played in. I've already seen some bionic arms here that struggled with football IQ, accuracy and vision to perpetuate their inconsistencies on outta here. You gotta have some of those to throw guys open. DA used to struggle most with short game, which gets increasingly important when time to throw is a challnge. 1 workout without defenders challenging mind, time to throw, accuracy and mechanics won't do anything but tell me Allen can throw a football as far as Jamarcus Russell.
As far as Elway goes, he's fallen for Brock O twice and Paxton Lynch once to remind me it hasn't been nearly as easy as recruiting a HOF QB in progress (Manning).
Other than accuracy issues with Josh Allen which can be fixed he could come in and sit out the year to correct it. It’s been done before,Favre went from 52.4% in college to 62% in the NFL, Stafford 57.1 % to 62% ,Tyrod Taylor 57.2% to 62.4% just seems he could be the one to go #1
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He could have thrown outside, I agree. Checked the Laramie weather- it was 50 degrees today.
It isn't the temperature you needed to check, but the wind speed. Most people don't know that Cheyenne was rated the 2nd most windy city in the US (Missoula, Mont was #1) with an average wind speed 24 hours a day for a year of over 13 mph. Laramie is not to far W from there up in a gap in the Rockies so if there is any kind of front coming through west to east it can easily hit 30-50 mph any given day. BTW I left Cheyenne after living there 5 years. Too damn windy, cold and snowy for me.
It isn't the temperature you needed to check, but the wind speed. Most people don't know that Cheyenne was rated the 2nd most windy city in the US (Missoula, Mont was #1) with an average wind speed 24 hours a day for a year of over 13 mph. Laramie is not to far W from there up in a gap in the Rockies so if there is any kind of front coming through west to east it can easily hit 30-50 mph any given day. BTW I left Cheyenne after living there 5 years. Too damn windy, cold and snowy for me.
Well do I know that Ag. Did a couple climbing trips in the Snowy Range just west of Laramie. Didn't check the wind speed, but at Darnold's pro day they commented wind is a bigger factor than rain. Regarding wind, that's what completely sold me on Ben Roethlisber. Miami of Ohio is 50 miles down the road from Dayton, and the wife is a Miami alum- so I got to see plenty of Ben's college games. One, they were playing in a virtual hurricane constant 30+ mph wind, with plenty of gusts 50+. Ben completed a crazy percentage of passes playing in that gale, knew right then the guy was special.
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That's true Gumby. Some interesting points. I'm just not sure guys that aren't accurate in college become accurate in NFL any more than receivers with the dropsies suddenly cure them at the next level. I've been wrong before though.
To the part in bold above, I'm sure the pass rushers and corners are faster than the ones that already rendered him pedestrian in the 2nd tier conference he played in. I've already seen some bionic arms here that struggled with football IQ, accuracy and vision to perpetuate their inconsistencies on outta here. You gotta have some of those to throw guys open. DA used to struggle most with short game, which gets increasingly important when time to throw is a challnge. 1 workout without defenders challenging mind, time to throw, accuracy and mechanics won't do anything but tell me Allen can throw a football as far as Jamarcus Russell.
As far as Elway goes, he's fallen for Brock O twice and Paxton Lynch once to remind me it hasn't been nearly as easy as recruiting a HOF QB in progress (Manning).
Other than accuracy issues with Josh Allen which can be fixed he could come in and sit out the year to correct it. It’s been done before,Favre went from 52.4% in college to 62% in the NFL, Stafford 57.1 % to 62% ,Tyrod Taylor 57.2% to 62.4% just seems he could be the one to go #1
Other than accuracy issues with Josh Allen which can be fixed he could come in and sit out the year to correct it. It’s been done before,Favre went from 52.4% in college to 62% in the NFL, Stafford 57.1 % to 62% ,Tyrod Taylor 57.2% to 62.4% just seems he could be the one to go #1
Favre aside that's using stats to your advantage. Stafford his last season in college was over 61% and Taylor was a hair under 60%. They got better, Allen stayed flat.
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Watched the NFLN coverage of Allen's work out. Here's my take... first the good.
- It was a good Pro day.
- Feet were actually quite good in drops. While the snap was not in every 5 and 7, it was in a lot of them.
- Not a sign of the hopping Darnold showed either in his sets or his hitches.
- Mechanically he looked good throwing from his spot so long as he could throw it flat and hard.
- "His spot" included the programmed rollouts in both directions. Some of his best throws were on the run.
And now the rest...
- There were throws within the above criteria that were simply off the mark... high... wrong side... low... and in slo-mo looks there was no obvious reason for the miss.
- He threw a lot of "impressive" fast balls on a rope, e.g., 15 and 20-yd outs, that under coverage will feast upon albeit at the cost of some jammed fingers.
- Ask for touch and it's not there... and matters not if it's a swingpass to a RB or a 60-yd bomb.
- Push him off his spot as Palmer was simulating and he loses his feet. Those throws tended to be arm-throws.
- Those final few throws were an absolute joke... no QB needs to be able to throw punts.
Bottom Line: Allen looks to have to "think" about any throw that is not a fastball in rhythm. Mayock says his sources said the kid's a thinker. Other reports I've read... not so much.
I really lost a lot of respect for Mayock today. I would not have been nearly as diplomatic as Bucky Brooks was in the phrasing of his WTF-ish questions for Mike. But at least Mike did not list us among the teams that were a good landing spot for Allen.
Watched the NFLN coverage of Allen's work out. Here's my take... first the good.
And now the rest...
- There were throws within the above criteria that were simply off the mark... high... wrong side... low... and in slo-mo looks there was no obvious reason for the miss.
- Ask for touch and it's not there... and matters not if it's a swingpass to a RB or a 60-yd bomb.
- Those final few throws were an absolute joke... no QB needs to be able to throw punts.
Bottom Line: Allen looks to have to "think" about any throw that is not a fastball in rhythm. Mayock says his sources said the kid's a thinker. Other reports I've read... not so much.
I really lost a lot of respect for Mayock today. I would not have been nearly as diplomatic as Bucky Brooks was in the phrasing of his WTF-ish questions for Mike. But at least Mike did not list us among the teams that were a good landing spot for Allen.
Is Mayock taking over for Gruden who never had a bad thing to say about a guy in his Quarterback Camp?
To your bulleted points:
You noticed it, Tia noticed it, I noticed it. It wasn't as bad as some of his game tape- but some of those throws were indeed unacceptably inaccurate.
Did they have Josh try some endzone fades to the corner? If they did, they were way too flat, no touch, and looked like duplicates of Kizer's attempts at the same.
Yes. A qb (with good protection) has what? 4 seconds or so to throw? a fast wr can cover 40 yards in the same time if he's not pressed at the line. So what if Josh can heave 'em 70+ yards. He should have really shown off- and as I've said elsewhere- show 'em he can throw a Hail Mary from his own 25.
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Well to Tours point I think we found our punter. Throw that thing 80 yards and instruct the receiver to just be ready to tackle the DB as he catches the ball. Flip the field!
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He's a pussy for throwing indoors. If he wanted to impress he should've been outside throwing since last I checked, every team in the top of the draft is a cold weather team that plays outdoors.
Fuck him.
He's a pussy for throwing indoors. If he wanted to impress he should've been outside throwing since last I checked, every team in the top of the draft is a cold weather team that plays outdoors.
Shmuck him.
I hear ya. They're pushing this guy up the charts and down our esophagus because how of he looks without any defenders on the field indoors. Because as all of the QBs on the t-shirt can tell us - playing QB in Cleveland is eggs-actly like this.
Keep in mind, when he DID play against defenses - he didn't play against all the corners and pass rushers with the best football scholarships. That being the case, he should have posted monster numbers if he's the answer to all our prayers. Didn't happen. Like Baker hints - how about COUNTING film more than a make believe football scenario.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
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oh, come on, don't be a grouch, that was just funny.
I thought it was pretty funny myself.
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He's a pussy for throwing indoors. If he wanted to impress he should've been outside throwing since last I checked, every team in the top of the draft is a cold weather team that plays outdoors.
Shmuck him.
I hear ya. They're pushing this guy up the charts and down our esophagus because how of he looks without any defenders on the field indoors. Because as all of the QBs on the t-shirt can tell us - playing QB in Cleveland is eggs-actly like this.
Keep in mind, when he DID play against defenses - he didn't play against all the corners and pass rushers with the best football scholarships. That being the case, he should have posted monster numbers if he's the answer to all our prayers. Didn't happen. Like Baker hints - how about COUNTING film more than a make believe football scenario.
I hear ya. They're pushing this guy up the charts and down our esophagus because how of he looks without any defenders on the field indoors. Because as all of the QBs on the t-shirt can tell us - playing QB in Cleveland is eggs-actly like this.
Keep in mind, when he DID play against defenses - he didn't play against all the corners and pass rushers with the best football scholarships. That being the case, he should have posted monster numbers if he's the answer to all our prayers. Didn't happen. Like Baker hints - how about COUNTING film more than a make believe football scenario.
Like I said- this isn't a beauty pageant. Sure, Allen checks all the boxes on height, weight, hand size, arm strength. Good personality from the interviews. Accuracy? Touch? Not so much. Throws a great Derek Anderson fastball, when he can set his feet.
PS: Was mucking around YouTube and saw a blurb from Jim Donovan's local TV show. His take hanging around the Browns facility is they were going out to LA just as a confirmation of what they already knew, Darnold was going to be their guy. Got a feeling after they had dinner with him, Haslam hanging out with Mom & Dad, and the workout- it's what we heard from other teams scouts- Darnold to the Browns is essentially a done deal.
Could be that last year 0-16 and "Suck for Sam" is going to become a reality.
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