Top 5 QBs drafted overall, hits and misses
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My own opinion:
Hits:
Vick (despite his off field issues), Palmer, Rivers, Eli, Smith, Ryan, Stafford, Newton, Luck
Misses:
Harrington, Carr, Young, Russell, Sanchez, Bradford, Griffin,
Too Soon
Bortles, Mariota, Winston, Wentz, Goff, Trubisky
Areas of argument:
A. Sanchez took his team to two AFC title games his first two years....should he be given credit...or still...since he has done nothing since
B. Smith....seemed mediocre for a long time...but got his act together
C. Bradford....see Smith....so far very mediocre....but could he get his act together (and stay healthy?)
D. Luck....I give him a hit....but his overall career will be a disappointment if he cannot come back to form.
E. Griffin....great for one year...then nothing. Now can't even get a job.
F. Bortles....he was coming off pretty mediocre for a while....but seems to be getting it together....so it is a wait and see situation....which is why I put him on the too soon category
G. The Young ones: With Mariota, Winston, Wentz, Goff, Trubisky.....some are looking good...some are looking so-so. Ergo, too soon to tel.
H. Of course...the big question for all of us will be: which of the Hit or Miss category will our new guy fall into eventually. Not a good track record for us to be optimistic.
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Disagree on:
- Bradford and Griffin... missing primarily due to injury is a special subset. Especially so in the case of Bradford who clearly had the talent to succeed. RG3? Since his "talent" required him to play a style that increased his injury potential...
- Too soon on Bortles? He has 4 seasons under his belt. He's a miss.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Geographically pretty well scattered all over the place but not one from The OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY.
But then again the Buckeyes strengths since Tressel has been defense, running game and special teams. With all of the attention this year on this crop of ok quarterbacks it just reinforces the fact that QBs are long shots to be franchise players, maybe because the BROWNS have so desperately needed one for so long.
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
Disagree on:
- Bradford and Griffin... missing primarily due to injury is a special subset. Especially so in the case of Bradford who clearly had the talent to succeed. RG3? Since his "talent" required him to play a style that increased his injury potential...
- Too soon on Bortles? He has 4 seasons under his belt. He's a miss.
Disagree on:
- Bradford and Griffin... missing primarily due to injury is a special subset. Especially so in the case of Bradford who clearly had the talent to succeed. RG3? Since his "talent" required him to play a style that increased his injury potential...
- Too soon on Bortles? He has 4 seasons under his belt. He's a miss.
Missing due to injury may be a subset....but it is still a Miss. If I had gone back one year earlier to 1999, then we would have had Tim Couch on the list. And most people would call him a miss....and probably be right. But to me he would belong in the "injury" subset. But since I only put either "Hit" or "Miss" as eligible categories....he too would be a miss. Though...yes....it can be a qualifier.
On Bortles....I don't know....he played quite well this year. Not spectacular....steady. Got his team into an AFC title game they should have won. The Jags seem to have decided that he is their future (for now). He could become a solid, steady "game manager" QB....if not a Superstar type.
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Geographically pretty well scattered all over the place but not one from The OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY.
But then again the Buckeyes strengths since Tressel has been defense, running game and special teams. With all of the attention this year on this crop of ok quarterbacks it just reinforces the fact that QBs are long shots to be franchise players, maybe because the BROWNS have so desperately needed one for so long.
Geographically pretty well scattered all over the place but not one from The OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY.
But then again the Buckeyes strengths since Tressel has been defense, running game and special teams. With all of the attention this year on this crop of ok quarterbacks it just reinforces the fact that QBs are long shots to be franchise players, maybe because the BROWNS have so desperately needed one for so long.
Buckeyes not a factor in this thread. Not sure why you bring them up. See the post in the USC QB thread.
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Geographically pretty well scattered all over the place but not one from The OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY.
But then again the Buckeyes strengths since Tressel has been defense, running game and special teams. With all of the attention this year on this crop of ok quarterbacks it just reinforces the fact that QBs are long shots to be franchise players, maybe because the BROWNS have so desperately needed one for so long.
Buckeyes not a factor in this thread. Not sure why you bring them up. See the post in the USC QB thread.
Buckeyes not a factor in this thread. Not sure why you bring them up. See the post in the USC QB thread.
Upon closer inspection:
Top 5 QBs drafted overall, hits and misses
All those quarterbacks mostly from the South and West and not ONE BIG TEN quarterback in the bunch......just an observation. Top picked quarterbacks must not go with the Midwest style of football.
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
Disagree on:
- Bradford and Griffin... missing primarily due to injury is a special subset. Especially so in the case of Bradford who clearly had the talent to succeed. RG3? Since his "talent" required him to play a style that increased his injury potential...
- Too soon on Bortles? He has 4 seasons under his belt. He's a miss.
Disagree on:
- Bradford and Griffin... missing primarily due to injury is a special subset. Especially so in the case of Bradford who clearly had the talent to succeed. RG3? Since his "talent" required him to play a style that increased his injury potential...
- Too soon on Bortles? He has 4 seasons under his belt. He's a miss.
To the wimps that say- gotta take Saquon since he's more of a "Sure thing". Since 2003 only one mega-bust- Jamarcus, and close on his heels Vince Young. Other than that, the track record has been pretty good. Sanchez and Bortels not quite so bad under performing relative to their draft status, Bradford and Griffin injury busts- it happens at every position. I got a bust rate of around 30% since Carson Palmer. Scouting and metrics apparently vastly improved over the last 15 years. And we've hashed it out a bunch of times, the farther down you draft a QB, the higher the odds he's going to bust. LOL, the Browns have the market cornered on #22 QB busts. Who knows? Maybe a sober Johnny can turn it around, I'm not counting on it though
PS, RE: Bortels- you don't guarantee a guy $26 million if you think he's a bust.
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Buckeyes not a factor in this thread. Not sure why you bring them up. See the post in the USC QB thread.
Upon closer inspection:
Top 5 QBs drafted overall, hits and misses
All those quarterbacks mostly from the South and West and not ONE BIG TEN quarterback in the bunch......just an observation. Top picked quarterbacks must not go with the Midwest style of football.
Upon closer inspection:
Top 5 QBs drafted overall, hits and misses
All those quarterbacks mostly from the South and West and not ONE BIG TEN quarterback in the bunch......just an observation. Top picked quarterbacks must not go with the Midwest style of football.
Interesting. Did not notice that.
But...whether or not "Top Pick" QBs go with Midwest Football.......NFL football surely goes with Midwest football:
Brady: Michigan
Brees: Purdue
Ben R: Miami, Oh
Russell Wilson: from Ohio/ Wisconsin
All Super Bowl winners that are active
Kirk Cousins: Michigan St. (only now the highest paid player in the NFL)
Carson Wentz: North Dakota St. I think you can classify that as "Midwest".
Plus a few others...that are retired:
Len Dawson Purdue/Alliance
Roger Staubach....from Cincinnati
Bob Griese...Purdue/Evansville Ind.
Kurt Warner...from Iowa (Northern Iowa U)
And that doesn't even include the Western Pa crowd...that is within spitting distance of being "Midwest": Marino, Montana, Kelly, Namath, Unitas
And other decent QBs that either went to college in the Midwest...or were from the Midwest
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Disagree on:
- Bradford and Griffin... missing primarily due to injury is a special subset. Especially so in the case of Bradford who clearly had the talent to succeed. RG3? Since his "talent" required him to play a style that increased his injury potential...
- Too soon on Bortles? He has 4 seasons under his belt. He's a miss.
To the wimps that say- gotta take Saquon since he's more of a "Sure thing". Since 2003 only one mega-bust- Jamarcus, and close on his heels Vince Young. Other than that, the track record has been pretty good. Sanchez and Bortels not quite so bad under performing relative to their draft status, Bradford and Griffin injury busts- it happens at every position. I got a bust rate of around 30% since Carson Palmer. Scouting and metrics apparently vastly improved over the last 15 years. And we've hashed it out a bunch of times, the farther down you draft a QB, the higher the odds he's going to bust. LOL, the Browns have the market cornered on #22 QB busts. Who knows? Maybe a sober Johnny can turn it around, I'm not counting on it though
PS, RE: Bortels- you don't guarantee a guy $26 million if you think he's a bust.
To the wimps that say- gotta take Saquon since he's more of a "Sure thing". Since 2003 only one mega-bust- Jamarcus, and close on his heels Vince Young. Other than that, the track record has been pretty good. Sanchez and Bortels not quite so bad under performing relative to their draft status, Bradford and Griffin injury busts- it happens at every position. I got a bust rate of around 30% since Carson Palmer. Scouting and metrics apparently vastly improved over the last 15 years. And we've hashed it out a bunch of times, the farther down you draft a QB, the higher the odds he's going to bust. LOL, the Browns have the market cornered on #22 QB busts. Who knows? Maybe a sober Johnny can turn it around, I'm not counting on it though
PS, RE: Bortels- you don't guarantee a guy $26 million if you think he's a bust.
Then there is the Tim Couch/David Carr other factor: They were high picks (#1s)....that went to play for a "paper" team. I.e....and expansion or expansion type team, where the ONLY guys on those teams were the dregs that the league allowed the team to pick in their expansion drafts.
We have always said: what if these guys had gone to more established teams....instead of paper teams, with paper thin offensive lines.
I suppose you could put those two into another "subset".
Fair to say?
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Miss does not equal bust... or as h put it "mega-bust".
When you trade up to take a QB #3 overall, you ain't looking for "OK".
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Miss does not equal bust... or as h put it "mega-bust".
When you trade up to take a QB #3 overall, you ain't looking for "OK".
Miss does not equal bust... or as h put it "mega-bust".
No....true.....I guess we could have broken it down to like 10 different categories....but I did not decide to do that.
When you trade up to take a QB #3 overall, you ain't looking for "OK".
Perhaps....but you may be looking for a guy that can control the game....not make turnovers....and make plays....and WIN! So...Bortles seems to be doing that now. You know...he is just now 25 years old. Turns 26 in April. Still plenty, plenty of time for him to prove....or disprove himself.
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Upon closer inspection:
Top 5 QBs drafted overall, hits and misses
All those quarterbacks mostly from the South and West and not ONE BIG TEN quarterback in the bunch......just an observation. Top picked quarterbacks must not go with the Midwest style of football.
Interesting. Did not notice that.
But...whether or not "Top Pick" QBs go with Midwest Football.......NFL football surely goes with Midwest football:
Brady: Michigan
Brees: Purdue
Ben R: Miami, Oh
Russell Wilson: from Ohio/ Wisconsin
All Super Bowl winners that are active
Kirk Cousins: Michigan St. (only now the highest paid player in the NFL)
Carson Wentz: North Dakota St. I think you can classify that as "Midwest".
Plus a few others...that are retired:
Len Dawson Purdue/Alliance
Roger Staubach....from Cincinnati
Bob Griese...Purdue/Evansville Ind.
Kurt Warner...from Iowa (Northern Iowa U)
And that doesn't even include the Western Pa crowd...that is within spitting distance of being "Midwest": Marino, Montana, Kelly, Namath, Unitas
And other decent QBs that either went to college in the Midwest...or were from the Midwest
Brady: Michigan...... GOAT?
Brees: Purdue
Russell Wilson: from Ohio/ Wisconsin
All Super Bowl winners that are active
Kirk Cousins: Michigan St. (only now the highest paid player in the NFL)....... this one still cracks me up!
Len Dawson Purdue/Alliance..... I remember Lenny Dawson the Alliance Aviator when I was a kid!
Roger Staubach....from Cincinnati
Bob Griese...Purdue/Evansville Ind.
Kurt Warner...from Iowa (Northern Iowa U)....... I remember him in that darn Unidome!
And that doesn't even include the Western Pa crowd...that is within spitting distance of being "Midwest": Marino, Montana, Kelly, Namath, Unitas....... whoa, what a bunch.
And other decent QBs that either went to college in the Midwest...or were from the Midwest
Oh yes the Midwest quarterbacks the overlooked, underrated and the smurfs.
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