Darnold at #1?
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So you are saying that first, so his defense made his completion percentage in the 50s? His defense made him throw 3 ints? So all ints weren't Kiser's fault then. Second, even though players they have is better than the oppsing team, it's okay to lose the game as long as you have good mechanic and footwork? Losing 13 games out of 30 in college mostly against lesser opponents is the quality you look for in a qb?
His career stats put his comp % at 62 I think. You act like he was terrible in every game. Yeah, he put up 90 yds in a game he left with a concussion. That's an exception not the rule. What was the rule is he got hit way too much.
Yeah, the wins argument... Great call. Then countless usc QB's should be world beaters in the NFL, cuz they all win almost every single game. Didn't really work out that way though.
Head to head. Rosen was 32/52 for 421 yds 3 tds and 1 int. Darnold was 17/28 for 264 zero tds (he had 1 rushing) and 1 int.
So yeah, ucla lost but it wasn't because Darnold was way better.
His career stats put his comp % at 62 I think. You act like he was terrible in every game. Yeah, he put up 90 yds in a game he left with a concussion. That's an exception not the rule. What was the rule is he got hit way too much.
Yeah, the wins argument... Great call. Then countless usc QB's should be world beaters in the NFL, cuz they all win almost every single game. Didn't really work out that way though.
Head to head. Rosen was 32/52 for 421 yds 3 tds and 1 int. Darnold was 17/28 for 264 zero tds (he had 1 rushing) and 1 int.
So yeah, ucla lost but it wasn't because Darnold was way better.
Hmm...yeah Carson Palmer was barely above .500 winning perc before his senior year. He blossomed under better coaching (norm chow, carroll) and defense, . When the head coach was asked about darnold's funky thowing motion and bad footwork, he was quoted saying leave things that is working for us. Basically, they didn't want to tinker with it because we were winning. SC started 1-3 in 2016 and most people in the program didn't believe in the hiring the current staff and players seemed to play below their potential. When Darnold stepped in he changed the team into winners, and many close to the program will say he was the main factor for the turn around. They also say coaching and play calling has hurt the program. People who knows football like John Robinson, Lonnie Lott, Marcus Allen all have stated how this team lacked physicality along the line of scrimmage since the Coach Helton tenure. They all have said how special Darnold is as well. Listen to what Stanford coach says about Darnold he says best anticipatory thrower since Luck. Listen to Joel Klatts and other experts who has watched and followed pac 12 football they will all say how special Darnold is. And I agree with Jim Mora as well Darnold is better fit than Rosen. I do think Rosen has great potential, just pointing out there are more questions than Darnold. I get what you say. You make rational argument against him but I agree with the experts who have seen the games- how he makes 3rd and long possible every time he has the ball. Comeback drives are possible with him. With Kessler and Matt Barkley we didnt feel that way during the game. They couldn't overcome thing and situation. Darnold did more often than not. If you are basing on his game highlights tapes and not watching the entire game how things breakdown during the game and he seems to rise above that. In the past 15 years of watching pac 12 football only qb comparable is Luck.
This is my take on darnold:
Pluses
One of the best Anticipatory thrower go checknthe comment by all of his oppsing coaches
Mobility in and out of the pocket- deceptively quick
Keeps his eyes down field at all times- this was one of the weakest when Cody kessler was the starter at sc. He loves dumping the ball 5yard shy of the first down all the time. Plus he had a weak arm.
He makes his teammates better.
Blue collar work ethics. He was always an under dog. And he was beating the 1st team defense as a scout team qb as a teue freshman.
Toughness- He was first recruited as a linebacker
Youth - only 20...he will be much much better than Weeden when he was drafted as a 28 yr old. As he physically matures he will get stronger and even bigger/taller.
Winner- even with his turnover , which is him trying to compensate for lack of talent experience around him, puts the team in a position to win. Only two was blowout loss which was at ND and Cotton bowl. 20-4
Minuses
Turnovers- fumbles are well documented can be fixed by keeping both hands on the ball/ half of the ints were on th wrs for wrong-bad route running-
Youth - was a primarily a linebacker and wr as a sophomore inhigh school. Was thrusted into the starting role when the started Travis Wilson qb, who would start for Utah, was injured. He needs more experience at the position. But so does all the qbs in this draft. He also tries to do too much that's lack of experience and coaching.
Footwork- he definitely needs to work on that. At least he shows progress at his pro day. When his feet are set he is accurate as any qb in the draft.
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You've still yet to respond to my more in depth criticisms that came with video evidence. I'll be happy to provide more from this past season alone. But the anticipation you speak of only tends to apply to Sam's primary read.
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Doing a little fact checking and came across this photo evidence of how not to align for a throw...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
His career stats put his comp % at 62 I think. You act like he was terrible in every game. Yeah, he put up 90 yds in a game he left with a concussion. That's an exception not the rule. What was the rule is he got hit way too much.
Yeah, the wins argument... Great call. Then countless usc QB's should be world beaters in the NFL, cuz they all win almost every single game. Didn't really work out that way though.
Head to head. Rosen was 32/52 for 421 yds 3 tds and 1 int. Darnold was 17/28 for 264 zero tds (he had 1 rushing) and 1 int.
So yeah, ucla lost but it wasn't because Darnold was way better.
Hmm...yeah Carson Palmer was barely above .500 winning perc before his senior year. He blossomed under better coaching (norm chow, carroll) and defense, . When the head coach was asked about darnold's funky thowing motion and bad footwork, he was quoted saying leave things that is working for us. Basically, they didn't want to tinker with it because we were winning. SC started 1-3 in 2016 and most people in the program didn't believe in the hiring the current staff and players seemed to play below their potential. When Darnold stepped in he changed the team into winners, and many close to the program will say he was the main factor for the turn around. They also say coaching and play calling has hurt the program. People who knows football like John Robinson, Lonnie Lott, Marcus Allen all have stated how this team lacked physicality along the line of scrimmage since the Coach Helton tenure. They all have said how special Darnold is as well. Listen to what Stanford coach says about Darnold he says best anticipatory thrower since Luck. Listen to Joel Klatts and other experts who has watched and followed pac 12 football they will all say how special Darnold is. And I agree with Jim Mora as well Darnold is better fit than Rosen. I do think Rosen has great potential, just pointing out there are more questions than Darnold. I get what you say. You make rational argument against him but I agree with the experts who have seen the games- how he makes 3rd and long possible every time he has the ball. Comeback drives are possible with him. With Kessler and Matt Barkley we didnt feel that way during the game. They couldn't overcome thing and situation. Darnold did more often than not. If you are basing on his game highlights tapes and not watching the entire game how things breakdown during the game and he seems to rise above that. In the past 15 years of watching pac 12 football only qb comparable is Luck.
This is my take on darnold:
Pluses
One of the best Anticipatory thrower go checknthe comment by all of his oppsing coaches
Mobility in and out of the pocket- deceptively quick
Keeps his eyes down field at all times- this was one of the weakest when Cody kessler was the starter at sc. He loves dumping the ball 5yard shy of the first down all the time. Plus he had a weak arm.
He makes his teammates better.
Blue collar work ethics. He was always an under dog. And he was beating the 1st team defense as a scout team qb as a teue freshman.
Toughness- He was first recruited as a linebacker
Youth - only 20...he will be much much better than Weeden when he was drafted as a 28 yr old. As he physically matures he will get stronger and even bigger/taller.
Winner- even with his turnover , which is him trying to compensate for lack of talent experience around him, puts the team in a position to win. Only two was blowout loss which was at ND and Cotton bowl. 20-4
Minuses
Turnovers- fumbles are well documented can be fixed by keeping both hands on the ball/ half of the ints were on th wrs for wrong-bad route running-
Youth - was a primarily a linebacker and wr as a sophomore inhigh school. Was thrusted into the starting role when the started Travis Wilson qb, who would start for Utah, was injured. He needs more experience at the position. But so does all the qbs in this draft. He also tries to do too much that's lack of experience and coaching.
Footwork- he definitely needs to work on that. At least he shows progress at his pro day. When his feet are set he is accurate as any qb in the draft.
I do think Rosen has great potential, just pointing out there are more questions than Darnold.
ummm... no...
There is no... I repeat, no... comparison between the floors of these two QB prospects. See the visual evidence for the post above as a starting point.
Anticipation... hitting a primary receiver who is entering a dead spot in a zone is not NFL grade anticipation and neither is hitting a streaking WR clearing his man. Throwing to an opening man is not the same as throwing a man open... and it is the latter that takes anticipation.
Keeps his eyes Downfield? All the time? No... drops eyes to the rush. Now once clear he looks back up... throws it if he is running east/west... runs it if he's heading north/south. He is not adept at sliding in the pocket, but bails prematurely.
I love this San Capistrano blue-collar narrative... but Dad is a plumber... a medical gas plumber who pulls down 6-figues...
"Recruited" to play LB (nice Wikipedia use there)... yeah when he was a Sophomore in HS and the USC DC stopped by the school. At the time he was splitting his time between LB and WR.
Switched to QB but was hurt most of his JR year. Played his Sr. year. The started two years at USC. For those who are counting that's 3 years and change of QB'ing at the HS and College level.
Small wonder the kid lacks the biggest plus of all... read progressions.
Good player... good kid... posted good numbers despite many, many flaws from his feet to his elongated throwing motion (a source of turnovers) and questionable ball security and head.
If he's the next Browns QB as more and more sources are saying, then I will root for his success, but I'm going in with my eyes wide open.
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but Darnold's completion percentage !
67.2, 63.1 !
Rosenbum
60.0
59.3
62.6
Rosen - head coach - Jim Mora trained. He'll look the part in his offense, but around a bunch of seniors,
and a first round left tackle....a very good center.... never had a completion percentage as high as Darnold's worst year.
59 not far from 56. and Allen had far, far less talent around him vs UCLA versus a few common opponents.
Facts.
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Wow... finally took the time to look.
All depends on his feet doesn't it? And most the first half they were spectacularly bad. Early overthrow he was doing his bunny hop into his set. Completed a couple of quick bubbles without ever setting. Predetermined two GL throws... one picked and a second pick dropped. Finally at start of Q4 he got his feet under him and aligned with the direction of the throw and it was a beauty (the pass with PI called).
And then there's the Wheezy special... oy!
EDIT: had I just turned the page I could have said, "What tia said." Even included the times... and the hop...
The footwork, especially at the top of his 5 &7 step drops is just pure comedy. Nevermind the other things like how his hips don't come around in sync with his arm.
Why would you want to draft a QB where you spend the bulk of his first off season fixing his terrible mechanics when you could take Rosen - who you could immediately begin working on absorbing the playbook, adapting to NFL speeds and the mental/classroom work of the game because he doesn't possess such incredibly obvious flaws?!?
When the #1 pick is in and should the Browns not call Rosen's name, then they're only making it as hard on themselves as humanly possible.
The footwork, especially at the top of his 5 &7 step drops is just pure comedy. Nevermind the other things like how his hips don't come around in sync with his arm.
Why would you want to draft a QB where you spend the bulk of his first off season fixing his terrible mechanics when you could take Rosen - who you could immediately begin working on absorbing the playbook, adapting to NFL speeds and the mental/classroom work of the game because he doesn't possess such incredibly obvious flaws?!?
When the #1 pick is in and should the Browns not call Rosen's name, then they're only making it as hard on themselves as humanly possible.
So who's worse in the footwork department- Darnold or Allen? Yeah I get Rosen has the best mechanics, but didn't Kosar have terrible mechanics?
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Wow... finally took the time to look.
All depends on his feet doesn't it? And most the first half they were spectacularly bad. Early overthrow he was doing his bunny hop into his set. Completed a couple of quick bubbles without ever setting. Predetermined two GL throws... one picked and a second pick dropped. Finally at start of Q4 he got his feet under him and aligned with the direction of the throw and it was a beauty (the pass with PI called).
And then there's the Wheezy special... oy!
EDIT: had I just turned the page I could have said, "What tia said." Even included the times... and the hop...
The footwork, especially at the top of his 5 &7 step drops is just pure comedy. Nevermind the other things like how his hips don't come around in sync with his arm.
Why would you want to draft a QB where you spend the bulk of his first off season fixing his terrible mechanics when you could take Rosen - who you could immediately begin working on absorbing the playbook, adapting to NFL speeds and the mental/classroom work of the game because he doesn't possess such incredibly obvious flaws?!?
When the #1 pick is in and should the Browns not call Rosen's name, then they're only making it as hard on themselves as humanly possible.
The footwork, especially at the top of his 5 &7 step drops is just pure comedy. Nevermind the other things like how his hips don't come around in sync with his arm.
Why would you want to draft a QB where you spend the bulk of his first off season fixing his terrible mechanics when you could take Rosen - who you could immediately begin working on absorbing the playbook, adapting to NFL speeds and the mental/classroom work of the game because he doesn't possess such incredibly obvious flaws?!?
When the #1 pick is in and should the Browns not call Rosen's name, then they're only making it as hard on themselves as humanly possible.
For me, this is a BIG reason. We just destroyed 2 QB's careers (Kizer, Kessler) and now we are trying to get the best of Darnold? I'd go with the safest bet.
Rosen can be concerning for his injury history, but even if you took the strongest QB that wouldn't assure you that he cannot suffer a career ending injury.
And if someone believes that other guys' ceiling is higher than Rosen's, did you see Browns' quaterback list since '99? At this point I'd be more than happy with a good FRANCHISE quaterback, even if he is not top 5 in the league. Just so we don't have to worry about the most important position in the sport.
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The footwork, especially at the top of his 5 &7 step drops is just pure comedy. Nevermind the other things like how his hips don't come around in sync with his arm.
Why would you want to draft a QB where you spend the bulk of his first off season fixing his terrible mechanics when you could take Rosen - who you could immediately begin working on absorbing the playbook, adapting to NFL speeds and the mental/classroom work of the game because he doesn't possess such incredibly obvious flaws?!?
When the #1 pick is in and should the Browns not call Rosen's name, then they're only making it as hard on themselves as humanly possible.
So who's worse in the footwork department- Darnold or Allen? Yeah I get Rosen has the best mechanics, but didn't Kosar have terrible mechanics?
So who's worse in the footwork department- Darnold or Allen? Yeah I get Rosen has the best mechanics, but didn't Kosar have terrible mechanics?
Darnold by a long way but there are times when Allen's feet go erratic as well.
Bernie had a 3/4 delivery but good footwork, and more importantly, a great mind. You can overcome some deficiencies by having the latter, but not all. Most especially in the modern NFL with defenders as fast as they have become.
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So who's worse in the footwork department- Darnold or Allen? Yeah I get Rosen has the best mechanics, but didn't Kosar have terrible mechanics?
Darnold by a long way but there are times when Allen's feet go erratic as well.
Bernie had a 3/4 delivery but good footwork, and more importantly, a great mind. You can overcome some deficiencies by having the latter, but not all. Most especially in the modern NFL with defenders as fast as they have become.
Darnold by a long way but there are times when Allen's feet go erratic as well.
Agree... easy call. Allen's routine footwork in his drops is actually quite pretty... in any color. His mystery throws are the issue that remains with him. While I know over-striding is a thing, I cannot say that I have seen it in his case.
Rosen can be concerning for his injury history, but even if you took the strongest QB that wouldn't assure you that he cannot suffer a career ending injury.
And if someone believes that other guys' ceiling is higher than Rosen's, did you see Browns' quaterback list since '99? At this point I'd be more than happy with a good FRANCHISE quaterback, even if he is not top 5 in the league. Just so we don't have to worry about the most important position in the sport.
Yup... you'd think Rosen was the only QB to ever be injured in football history. Anyone talking about Darnold missing his Jr. year in HS?
And again... when you see a floor as high as Rosen's, then phuck projecting ceilings.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
"Rosen's floor in the ceiling" lol
"so, rosen, don't be acting like a psycho jackwagon, at least until after you get your first contract.
Then, you will be a millionaire, and you can go ahead and give the NFL the finger"
that kind of floor? The same floor as ryan leaf had?
going to be a FUN DRAFT !
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Darnold by a long way but there are times when Allen's feet go erratic as well.
Agree... easy call. Allen's routine footwork in his drops is actually quite pretty... in any color. His mystery throws are the issue that remains with him. While I know over-striding is a thing, I cannot say that I have seen it in his case.
Rosen can be concerning for his injury history, but even if you took the strongest QB that wouldn't assure you that he cannot suffer a career ending injury.
And if someone believes that other guys' ceiling is higher than Rosen's, did you see Browns' quaterback list since '99? At this point I'd be more than happy with a good FRANCHISE quaterback, even if he is not top 5 in the league. Just so we don't have to worry about the most important position in the sport.
Yup... you'd think Rosen was the only QB to ever be injured in football history. Anyone talking about Darnold missing his Jr. year in HS?
And again... when you see a floor as high as Rosen's, then phuck projecting ceilings.
Agree... easy call. Allen's routine footwork in his drops is actually quite pretty... in any color. His mystery throws are the issue that remains with him. While I know over-striding is a thing, I cannot say that I have seen it in his case.
Yup... you'd think Rosen was the only QB to ever be injured in football history. Anyone talking about Darnold missing his Jr. year in HS?
And again... when you see a floor as high as Rosen's, then phuck projecting ceilings.
I think Allen's base is too wide. But even when it doesn't appear so he'll still have a ball sail on him. At this point you just had to believe it's something eye/hand or neurological related.
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"Rosen's floor in the ceiling" lol
"so, rosen, don't be acting like a psycho jackwagon, at least until after you get your first contract.
Then, you will be a millionaire, and you can go ahead and give the NFL the finger"
that kind of floor? The same floor as ryan leaf had?
going to be a FUN DRAFT !
"Rosen's floor in the ceiling" lol
"so, rosen, don't be acting like a psycho jackwagon, at least until after you get your first contract.
Then, you will be a millionaire, and you can go ahead and give the NFL the finger"
that kind of floor? The same floor as ryan leaf had?
going to be a FUN DRAFT !
Wasn't aware Rosen was doing rails at half-time in the locker room.
Don't get the Leaf jokes at all.
But I did watch an Aaron Rodgers highlight and kept hearing from Burman about Rodgers 'attitude' adding to his draft slide.
....feels remarkably similar.
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"Rosen's floor in the ceiling" lol
"so, rosen, don't be acting like a psycho jackwagon, at least until after you get your first contract.
Then, you will be a millionaire, and you can go ahead and give the NFL the finger"
that kind of floor? The same floor as ryan leaf had?
going to be a FUN DRAFT !
"Rosen's floor in the ceiling" lol
"so, rosen, don't be acting like a psycho jackwagon, at least until after you get your first contract.
Then, you will be a millionaire, and you can go ahead and give the NFL the finger"
that kind of floor? The same floor as ryan leaf had?
going to be a FUN DRAFT !
Have you been taking writing lessons from gumby?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
"Rosen's floor in the ceiling" lol
"so, rosen, don't be acting like a psycho jackwagon, at least until after you get your first contract.
Then, you will be a millionaire, and you can go ahead and give the NFL the finger"
that kind of floor? The same floor as ryan leaf had?
going to be a FUN DRAFT !
Wasn't aware Rosen was doing rails at half-time in the locker room.
Don't get the Leaf jokes at all.
But I did watch an Aaron Rodgers highlight and kept hearing from Burman about Rodgers 'attitude' adding to his draft slide.
....feels remarkably similar.
Wasn't aware Rosen was doing rails at half-time in the locker room.
Don't get the Leaf jokes at all.
But I did watch an Aaron Rodgers highlight and kept hearing from Burman about Rodgers 'attitude' adding to his draft slide.
....feels remarkably similar.
Leafs stats at WSU are far closer to Allen than Rosen.
Big tall inaccurate qb. Sounds familiar.
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I do think Rosen has great potential, just pointing out there are more questions than Darnold.
ummm... no...
There is no... I repeat, no... comparison between the floors of these two QB prospects. See the visual evidence for the post above as a starting point.
Anticipation... hitting a primary receiver who is entering a dead spot in a zone is not NFL grade anticipation and neither is hitting a streaking WR clearing his man. Throwing to an opening man is not the same as throwing a man open... and it is the latter that takes anticipation.
Keeps his eyes Downfield? All the time? No... drops eyes to the rush. Now once clear he looks back up... throws it if he is running east/west... runs it if he's heading north/south. He is not adept at sliding in the pocket, but bails prematurely.
I love this San Capistrano blue-collar narrative... but Dad is a plumber... a medical gas plumber who pulls down 6-figues...
"Recruited" to play LB (nice Wikipedia use there)... yeah when he was a Sophomore in HS and the USC DC stopped by the school. At the time he was splitting his time between LB and WR.
Switched to QB but was hurt most of his JR year. Played his Sr. year. The started two years at USC. For those who are counting that's 3 years and change of QB'ing at the HS and College level.
Small wonder the kid lacks the biggest plus of all... read progressions.
Good player... good kid... posted good numbers despite many, many flaws from his feet to his elongated throwing motion (a source of turnovers) and questionable ball security and head.
If he's the next Browns QB as more and more sources are saying, then I will root for his success, but I'm going in with my eyes wide open.
ummm... no...
There is no... I repeat, no... comparison between the floors of these two QB prospects. See the visual evidence for the post above as a starting point.
Anticipation... hitting a primary receiver who is entering a dead spot in a zone is not NFL grade anticipation and neither is hitting a streaking WR clearing his man. Throwing to an opening man is not the same as throwing a man open... and it is the latter that takes anticipation.
Keeps his eyes Downfield? All the time? No... drops eyes to the rush. Now once clear he looks back up... throws it if he is running east/west... runs it if he's heading north/south. He is not adept at sliding in the pocket, but bails prematurely.
I love this San Capistrano blue-collar narrative... but Dad is a plumber... a medical gas plumber who pulls down 6-figues...
"Recruited" to play LB (nice Wikipedia use there)... yeah when he was a Sophomore in HS and the USC DC stopped by the school. At the time he was splitting his time between LB and WR.
Switched to QB but was hurt most of his JR year. Played his Sr. year. The started two years at USC. For those who are counting that's 3 years and change of QB'ing at the HS and College level.
Small wonder the kid lacks the biggest plus of all... read progressions.
Good player... good kid... posted good numbers despite many, many flaws from his feet to his elongated throwing motion (a source of turnovers) and questionable ball security and head.
If he's the next Browns QB as more and more sources are saying, then I will root for his success, but I'm going in with my eyes wide open.
Sorry , hmm I have been following sc recruiting and watching usc football since 1993 where I attended school had went to classes with Rob Johnson, Willie McGinest and Jason Seahorn. I can pretty much say I know more about sc players than probably anyone on this board. During summer, at Lyon center I would often play basketball with guys on the football team and talked to them about football like kyle waholtz and the late Darrall Russell. Heck, I thought Dylon Mccutchen would have a hall of fame career as a Brown. I knew Sammy knight was better than his 4.9 40 time at the combine that dropped him to either late rounds or FA pick up. He was a real football player. I was wrong about some players projection in the nfl like Rob Johnson, R J Soward, Matt Lienart. I wished them to do well but l also knew Matt Barkley, John David Booty, mitch mustain, Cody Kessler pretty much will be lower tier qbs. And I also hoped Randall Cunningham's kid who is on the sc track team who won the ncaa in high jump would play Qb at SC. He is a jr i believe and was qb at Bishop Gorman high, LV. was the qb there before Tate Martell who was recently backup to j.t. at osu. We also have a kid from Mater dei, power house sc pipeline along with Serra and long beach poly, have another qb JT Daniels coming in this fall who many project to be the starter at the end of the season. He as a jr won the gatorade high schoolnplayer of the year..just like matt barkley and Browne and reclassified to Sr. to graduate early. I can tell you all about california recruiting esp. Those involving usc. And from my expert view of the two qbs....darnold is a winner. Has that "it" factor. Rosen was the chosen one...roster full of top 10~15 ranked recruiting classes with and after and never winning any games that mattered and lossing to inferior teams. He hasnt shown me that he can win games. Matter of fact I think he is lesser qb than Cade Mcnown coming out of ucla. I don't know about Allen or Mayfield I know about the Darnold and Rosen. Both may end up being Manning/Brady, however Darnold is a better prospect and will be better in the nfl.
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