From nobody to the top of the first round of the draft - Josh Allen
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well, you can't coach away arrogance, entitlement, drunken chicken running, and a lack of leadership, love for the game, etc.
Miami was a power way back in the day when I was there. I just showed you how many titles they won. Ignore the facts at your
peril of being wrong about qb's. You'd think 56.x % was 40 points away from 63.x %
Come on, man.
well, you can't coach away arrogance, entitlement, drunken chicken running, and a lack of leadership, love for the game, etc.
Miami was a power way back in the day when I was there. I just showed you how many titles they won. Ignore the facts at your
peril of being wrong about qb's. You'd think 56.x % was 40 points away from 63.x %
Come on, man.
I just pointed out Miami didn't win the MAC the first two seasons Ben was at Miami. IIRC Chad Pennington was the QB on the competition. Yeah, at the time YOU were going to Kent (early 70s) Miami had decent teams- But after Ben, they've been pretty mediocre. Hardly the cream of the MAC. Cherry-pick your stats much? https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/miami-oh/
Cal- I still can't get over anytime one of us points out we have our doubts about Allen being the second coming of John Elway, you have to start ragging on Rosen. The two aren't related.
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well, you can't coach away arrogance, entitlement, drunken chicken running, and a lack of leadership, love for the game, etc.
Miami was a power way back in the day when I was there. I just showed you how many titles they won. Ignore the facts at your
peril of being wrong about qb's. You'd think 56.x % was 40 points away from 63.x %
Come on, man.
well, you can't coach away arrogance, entitlement, drunken chicken running, and a lack of leadership, love for the game, etc.
You'd think 56.x % was 40 points away from 63.x %
First... I don't know why you'd want to "coach away" "love of the game"...
Second... 56% is 700 points away from 63%.... 700 "basis points". Rick Santelli would be ashamed of you for not knowing that.
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Nick VeronicaVerified account @NickVeronica
Was curious why
@PFF had Josh Allen as its sixth-best QB in the class. This chart shows why. Here's him vs. their No. 1 QB, Baker Mayfield.
6:45 AM - 3 Apr 2018 -
well, you can't coach away arrogance, entitlement, drunken chicken running, and a lack of leadership, love for the game, etc.
Miami was a power way back in the day when I was there. I just showed you how many titles they won. Ignore the facts at your
peril of being wrong about qb's. You'd think 56.x % was 40 points away from 63.x %
Come on, man.
I just pointed out Miami didn't win the MAC the first two seasons Ben was at Miami. IIRC Chad Pennington was the QB on the competition. Yeah, at the time YOU were going to Kent (early 70s) Miami had decent teams- But after Ben, they've been pretty mediocre. Hardly the cream of the MAC. Cherry-pick your stats much? https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/miami-oh/
Cal- I still can't get over anytime one of us points out we have our doubts about Allen being the second coming of John Elway, you have to start ragging on Rosen. The two aren't related.
-
well, you can't coach away arrogance, entitlement, drunken chicken running, and a lack of leadership, love for the game, etc.
Miami was a power way back in the day when I was there. I just showed you how many titles they won. Ignore the facts at your
peril of being wrong about qb's. You'd think 56.x % was 40 points away from 63.x %
Come on, man.
I just pointed out Miami didn't win the MAC the first two seasons Ben was at Miami. IIRC Chad Pennington was the QB on the competition. Yeah, at the time YOU were going to Kent (early 70s) Miami had decent teams- But after Ben, they've been pretty mediocre. Hardly the cream of the MAC. Cherry-pick your stats much? https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/miami-oh/
Cal- I still can't get over anytime one of us points out we have our doubts about Allen being the second coming of John Elway, you have to start ragging on Rosen. The two aren't related.
Cal- I still can't get over anytime one of us points out we have our doubts about Allen being the second coming of John Elway, you have to start ragging on Rosen. The two aren't related.
yo - I quit talking about Allen, and the haters just kept on and on and on.
The rosen thread looked lonely, I just counter the crap. It is getting boring now, but it was fun for a good while there.
Rosen is out of the picture, to me - it's Darnold probably, and Allen is the other choice.
Seems like some people are angry that Allen might be the pick, and they are campaigning to make it not happen.
I know Alfred E. Rosen won't be the pick. No worries here. This guy is irratating - but it's all true.
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well, you can't coach away arrogance, entitlement, drunken chicken running, and a lack of leadership, love for the game, etc.
You'd think 56.x % was 40 points away from 63.x %
First... I don't know why you'd want to "coach away" "love of the game"...
Second... 56% is 700 points away from 63%.... 700 "basis points". Rick Santelli would be ashamed of you for not knowing that.
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Nick VeronicaVerified account @NickVeronica
Was curious why
@PFF had Josh Allen as its sixth-best QB in the class. This chart shows why. Here's him vs. their No. 1 QB, Baker Mayfield.6:45 AM - 3 Apr 2018Was curious why
@PFF had Josh Allen as its sixth-best QB in the class. This chart shows why. Here's him vs. their No. 1 QB, Baker Mayfield.stats are bs when you don't consider the players around him, offensive line, ability of wr's to get open, etc etc etcetc etc.
That has been my pick all along.
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Was curious why
@PFF had Josh Allen as its sixth-best QB in the class. This chart shows why. Here's him vs. their No. 1 QB, Baker Mayfield.stats are bs when you don't consider the players around him, offensive line, ability of wr's to get open, etc etc etcetc etc.
That has been my pick all along.
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they graphed stats, correct? how can you create a graph without values? "Come on, man."
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they graphed stats, correct? how can you create a graph without values? "Come on, man."
No... Try actually looking at the charts rather than... how do you put it??? Oh yeah.... "Knee-jerking"
But take heart... Dane Brugler's Top 100 is out and Allen was #30 on his board...
Just above Jackson (#32)...
... but slightly trailing the other three QBs (Danold #6, Rosen #9, Mayfield #10)
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I did. Your own graph refers to "percentages". Do you know what a percentage is?
A calculation, Toursise. You know, NUMBERS? Yo, the graph catagories labels are referring to numbers.
Stats. eegad. Go get some caffiene.
every time I say how bad rosen is, you just knee jerk and rant about how you hate Allen.
"yawn". The Browns will pick Darnold or Allen with their first pick. Nobody's "experts" are experts.
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I did. Your own graph refers to "percentages". Do you know what a percentage is?
A calculation, Toursise. You know, NUMBERS? Yo, the graph catagories labels are referring to numbers.
Stats. eegad. Go get some caffiene.
every time I say how bad rosen is, you just knee jerk and rant about how you hate Allen.
"yawn". The Browns will pick Darnold or Allen with their first pick. Nobody's "experts" are experts.
I did. Your own graph refers to "percentages". Do you know what a percentage is?
A calculation, Toursise. You know, NUMBERS? Yo, the graph catagories labels are referring to numbers.
Stats. eegad. Go get some caffiene.
every time I say how bad rosen is, you just knee jerk and rant about how you hate Allen.
"yawn". The Browns will pick Darnold or Allen with their first pick. Nobody's "experts" are experts.
Please Cal, we don't "hate" Allen, he's a pretty likeable guy. Certainly not even close to you calling Rosen names because you don't like him. Nothing personal about Allen, just a bunch of us guys think he's far too questionable a prospect to risk a top five pick on.
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Between all of the different threads, I can't wait for draft day so we can get all of the circle jerking and feuding over with. If it is Allen, Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, or Jackson, I will still cheer for them because they are the Browns' QB.
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I did. Your own graph refers to "percentages". Do you know what a percentage is?
A calculation, Toursise. You know, NUMBERS? Yo, the graph catagories labels are referring to numbers.
Stats. eegad. Go get some caffiene.
every time I say how bad rosen is, you just knee jerk and rant about how you hate Allen.
"yawn". The Browns will pick Darnold or Allen with their first pick. Nobody's "experts" are experts.
I did. Your own graph refers to "percentages". Do you know what a percentage is?
A calculation, Toursise. You know, NUMBERS? Yo, the graph catagories labels are referring to numbers.
Stats. eegad. Go get some caffiene.
every time I say how bad rosen is, you just knee jerk and rant about how you hate Allen.
"yawn". The Browns will pick Darnold or Allen with their first pick. Nobody's "experts" are experts.
No one can objectively look at their numbers and say Rosen sucks. You can have concerns over his concussions and his shoulder etc, but his production and film doesn't show a qb that sucks, or is a bum.
You can also objectively look at Allen and be worried about his lack of accuracy and production. Worry about the transition to the NFL... Etc.
There's a difference between looking at the numbers and having concerns and just hating someone out of spite.
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I did. Your own graph refers to "percentages". Do you know what a percentage is?
A calculation, Toursise. You know, NUMBERS? Yo, the graph catagories labels are referring to numbers.
Stats. eegad. Go get some caffiene.
every time I say how bad rosen is, you just knee jerk and rant about how you hate Allen.
"yawn". The Browns will pick Darnold or Allen with their first pick. Nobody's "experts" are experts.
Please Cal, we don't "hate" Allen, he's a pretty likeable guy. Certainly not even close to you calling Rosen names because you don't like him. Nothing personal about Allen, just a bunch of us guys think he's far too questionable a prospect to risk a top five pick on.
Please Cal, we don't "hate" Allen, he's a pretty likeable guy. Certainly not even close to you calling Rosen names because you don't like him. Nothing personal about Allen, just a bunch of us guys think he's far too questionable a prospect to risk a top five pick on.
I'm good with that, it's understandable. Wentz did have those high completion percentages at N. Dakota, but it was the "small school - small competition" thing.
But he didn't play with a star-studded cast, either. I don't see Allen as the same level as Wentz, who I freaking really wanted in the draft... but he has all the tools to be every bit as good with some coaching and experience. "Greater risk, greater reward" ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carson_Wentz
Early years. Born in Raleigh, North Carolina, Wentz moved to North Dakota with his family at the age of three. He played quarterback and defensive back for the football team at Century High School in Bismarck, and also played basketball and baseball for the Patriots.
Passing yards: 7,078Completion percentage: 61.5Passer rating: 88.8 -
I did. Your own graph refers to "percentages". Do you know what a percentage is?
A calculation, Toursise. You know, NUMBERS? Yo, the graph catagories labels are referring to numbers.
Stats. eegad. Go get some caffiene.
every time I say how bad rosen is, you just knee jerk and rant about how you hate Allen.
"yawn". The Browns will pick Darnold or Allen with their first pick. Nobody's "experts" are experts.
No one can objectively look at their numbers and say Rosen sucks. You can have concerns over his concussions and his shoulder etc, but his production and film doesn't show a qb that sucks, or is a bum.
You can also objectively look at Allen and be worried about his lack of accuracy and production. Worry about the transition to the NFL... Etc.
There's a difference between looking at the numbers and having concerns and just hating someone out of spite.
No one can objectively look at their numbers and say Rosen sucks. You can have concerns over his concussions and his shoulder etc, but his production and film doesn't show a qb that sucks, or is a bum.
You can also objectively look at Allen and be worried about his lack of accuracy and production. Worry about the transition to the NFL... Etc.
There's a difference between looking at the numbers and having concerns and just hating someone out of spite.
Dude - I joke around in kind, but there is no spite. I don't hate rosen - he isn't my kind of person to lead a football team. If you read up on what Leaf says about himself - and look at rosen, you see the same possibilities of failure. I've watched bigtime star football players talk about how pro players play with pain, get beaten up, etc etc etc.... and they wonder if rosen loves the game, or just wants to play it for the money and fame. They ask what happens, when it's cold, and snowing, and he gets some hits on him... if he will really want to fight to stay on the field etc.
Drafting isn't all about numbers - or Gilbert would have been a star all pro cb. If football is 80% emotional a game, then objectivity goes out the window to a point, and you have to look at the subjective measurements. That is where each team has to figure out if a player is a fit. If you listen to Kosar talk about all his injuries - so many bones broken, does this college qb have the incredible courage and toughness to hang in there for a career? Allen, Mayfield, Darnold certainly do. Probably Rudolph.
It's the intangibles - and going with rosen SOLELY over the objective stats doesn't work with a LOT of the NFL, not just me and some others on the board.
Arguing objective vs subjective, with both being legitimately at play, is getting boring like too much ping pong volley.
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No one can objectively look at their numbers and say Rosen sucks. You can have concerns over his concussions and his shoulder etc, but his production and film doesn't show a qb that sucks, or is a bum.
You can also objectively look at Allen and be worried about his lack of accuracy and production. Worry about the transition to the NFL... Etc.
There's a difference between looking at the numbers and having concerns and just hating someone out of spite.
Dude - I joke around in kind, but there is no spite. I don't hate rosen - he isn't my kind of person to lead a football team. If you read up on what Leaf says about himself - and look at rosen, you see the same possibilities of failure. I've watched bigtime star football players talk about how pro players play with pain, get beaten up, etc etc etc.... and they wonder if rosen loves the game, or just wants to play it for the money and fame. They ask what happens, when it's cold, and snowing, and he gets some hits on him... if he will really want to fight to stay on the field etc.
Drafting isn't all about numbers - or Gilbert would have been a star all pro cb. If football is 80% emotional a game, then objectivity goes out the window to a point, and you have to look at the subjective measurements. That is where each team has to figure out if a player is a fit. If you listen to Kosar talk about all his injuries - so many bones broken, does this college qb have the incredible courage and toughness to hang in there for a career? Allen, Mayfield, Darnold certainly do. Probably Rudolph.
It's the intangibles - and going with rosen SOLELY over the objective stats doesn't work with a LOT of the NFL, not just me and some others on the board.
Arguing objective vs subjective, with both being legitimately at play, is getting boring like too much ping pong volley.
Dude - I joke around in kind, but there is no spite. I don't hate rosen - he isn't my kind of person to lead a football team. If you read up on what Leaf says about himself - and look at rosen, you see the same possibilities of failure. I've watched bigtime star football players talk about how pro players play with pain, get beaten up, etc etc etc.... and they wonder if rosen loves the game, or just wants to play it for the money and fame. They ask what happens, when it's cold, and snowing, and he gets some hits on him... if he will really want to fight to stay on the field etc.
Drafting isn't all about numbers - or Gilbert would have been a star all pro cb. If football is 80% emotional a game, then objectivity goes out the window to a point, and you have to look at the subjective measurements. That is where each team has to figure out if a player is a fit. If you listen to Kosar talk about all his injuries - so many bones broken, does this college qb have the incredible courage and toughness to hang in there for a career? Allen, Mayfield, Darnold certainly do. Probably Rudolph.
It's the intangibles - and going with rosen SOLELY over the objective stats doesn't work with a LOT of the NFL, not just me and some others on the board.
Arguing objective vs subjective, with both being legitimately at play, is getting boring like too much ping pong volley.
I agree it's not just about numbers, or else mayfield would be the clear #1.
I think Rosen has several intangibles. Mainly the ability to run an NFL style offense, playing under center, make tough throws, being in the spotlight, and being able to understand the playbook and command the offense.
I think Rosen had far more responsibility and had to carry a team more than anyone else. That shouldn't be overlooked.
Fwiw Leaf thinks he's the best qb in this class.
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I think he doesn't have those intangibles. Plenty of star college players fold in the pros. On the move, rosen's ability to throw accurately fell to about 42%. His durability is a serious concern, his mobility not so much, Darnold played with mostly underclassmen - rosen played with mostly seniors. That makes a hell of a huge advantage to be successful. It's tough to know about who had more responsibility - and he hardly carried a team on his shoulders more than Darnold or Allen - they played with underclassmen.
Playing with seniors is huge. His left tackle will go in the first round. His center will go in the draft - 5th roundish maybe? His HC was
the same for his years in college, and his head coach was an ex-head coach of two different NFL teams.
rosen has had the camps, the training they could buy for him, and an exNFL hc coaching him. Sure, he's the best pocket passer.
That doesn't mean diddley squat to me as far as total package about him. Rosen ADMITTED he had a problem with women not understanding him..."who didn't know him"....
that isn't good right there. But it's a far smaller point than who he is about whining about football and college. etc etc etc etc.
Leaf might think he's the best pocket passer, but not the best human being to have as the face of your franchise. That is the latter point I've been making. If the head isn't screwed on right, it doesn't matter that a college qb was successful in college, especially when he had the senior talent at a big name school around him, and an EX NFL hc.
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Furthermore - the only two times rosen had to play a team away game, in cold climates late in OCT/NOV...
he lost 44-23 to Washington, and 48017 in Utah.
vs Washington, rosen was 12 of 21 for only 91 yards, 4 sacks, 1 TD. He had 8 rushing attempts, for -19 yards net.
vs Utah, he didn't play, had a concussion.
Drafting rosen when he had to play up north and miserably failed for the Browns makes no sense at all.
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I did. Your own graph refers to "percentages". Do you know what a percentage is?
A calculation, Toursise. You know, NUMBERS? Yo, the graph catagories labels are referring to numbers.
Stats. eegad. Go get some caffiene.
every time I say how bad rosen is, you just knee jerk and rant about how you hate Allen.
"yawn". The Browns will pick Darnold or Allen with their first pick. Nobody's "experts" are experts.
I did. Your own graph refers to "percentages". Do you know what a percentage is?
A calculation, Toursise. You know, NUMBERS? Yo, the graph catagories labels are referring to numbers.
Stats. eegad. Go get some caffiene.
every time I say how bad rosen is, you just knee jerk and rant about how you hate Allen.
"yawn". The Browns will pick Darnold or Allen with their first pick. Nobody's "experts" are experts.
So now the guy who said "stats" is saying, "Stats? Who said stats? I didn't say 'stats'... but if I had said stats, I would have meant 'numbers'... or something."
Adjusted Completion Percentage and Big-Time Throw Percentage... that's two... of 10. Fixate much?
Every other plotted point is a "grade"... as in watched every snap... graded every play... did the math. A "grade" is not a "stat".
Of the 10 criteria your boy is above average, the average for the entire draft class, in three: Big-time Throw %, Intermed Grade and Rushing Grade.
And he is damn near on the center in two: Adj Compl % and Blitz Grade. The latter says he folds like the proverbial cheap suit.
Pivot and project and pretend... the cal way.
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