From nobody to the top of the first round of the draft - Josh Allen
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He doesn’t throw with great timing or anticipation, and his arm is so strong that he can make up for it. The thing that he has to learn how to do is learn how to play the position where he can layer throws.”
Why is he even in the discussion for #1 overall?
He doesn’t throw with great timing or anticipation, and his arm is so strong that he can make up for it. The thing that he has to learn how to do is learn how to play the position where he can layer throws.”
Why is he even in the discussion for #1 overall?
gee, go ask all those "experts" that have him going #1 overall. I didn't tell em to do it.
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lol... my ego is unaltered... and a source close to Dorsey should know, not think...
Even Hue knows the truth of it...
But Jackson said last week -- and has said before -- that although a quarterback can improve fundamentally, he usually is what he is when it comes to completion percentage.
"I think you said it, you never feel like that that's something that you can just totally fix," Jackson said. "I think you can help improve it, but fix it, that's kind of hard to do. But at the same time, I watched him improve with some fundamentals that he needed to work on to give himself a chance to be more accurate."
Also from the article:
- Allen also did not have a high percentage of passes dropped. Wyoming's 4.2 drop percentage was barely higher than the national average of 4.1 and less than UCLA's 6.3 for Rosen.
- Pro Football Focus' analytics and stats show that Allen's 56 percent number had little to do with the talent around him. PFF reports that Allen completed just 13 of 42 passes thrown downfield (more than 20 yards from the line of scrimmage) and 1-of-13 when throwing deep to the right. PFF eliminated drops, spikes, balls knocked down and throws affected by the pass rush, and Allen completed 65.7 percent, which ranked 86th in the country. He was 51.4 percent against pressure (79th) and 71.8 percent from a "clean" pocket (72nd).
- Football Outsiders is another analytics site that has developed its own metric, which is called QBase, and it has been accurate in predicting how a quarterback will transfer to the NFL. Allen receives the lowest grade by far of the top draftable quarterbacks, and the site calls his arm "a howitzer without a target."
Then there's...
The Sub-60 Percent Club
Quarterbacks drafted in the past 10 years (Rounds 1-3) who had a career completion rate below 60 percent in college:
Year Player College Pct. Pro Pct. NFL W-L and status * - has not played; **- six passes Note: Dolphins' Pat White not included because he was drafted as WildDawg quarterback 2016 Christian Hackenberg 56.1 NP* 0-0, with Jets 2016 Jacoby Brissett 59.5 59.2 4-12, with Colts 2011 Jake Locker 54.0 57.5 9-14, out of league 2011 Colin Kaepernick 58.2 59.7 28-30, out of league 2011 Ryan Mallett 57.8 55.1 3-5, unsigned free agent 2009 Matt Stafford 57.1 62.0 60-65, Lions starter 2009 Josh Freeman 59.1 57.6 25-36, out of league 2008 Matt Ryan 59.9 64.9 96-63, Falcons starter 2008 Chad Henne 59.7 58.3 18-35, Chiefs backup 2008 Kevin O'Connell 57.7 66.7** 0-0, out of league lol... my ego is unaltered... and a source close to Dorsey should know, not think...
Even Hue knows the truth of it...
But Jackson said last week -- and has said before -- that although a quarterback can improve fundamentally, he usually is what he is when it comes to completion percentage.
"I think you said it, you never feel like that that's something that you can just totally fix," Jackson said. "I think you can help improve it, but fix it, that's kind of hard to do. But at the same time, I watched him improve with some fundamentals that he needed to work on to give himself a chance to be more accurate."
Also from the article:
- Allen also did not have a high percentage of passes dropped. Wyoming's 4.2 drop percentage was barely higher than the national average of 4.1 and less than UCLA's 6.3 for Rosen.
- Pro Football Focus' analytics and stats show that Allen's 56 percent number had little to do with the talent around him. PFF reports that Allen completed just 13 of 42 passes thrown downfield (more than 20 yards from the line of scrimmage) and 1-of-13 when throwing deep to the right. PFF eliminated drops, spikes, balls knocked down and throws affected by the pass rush, and Allen completed 65.7 percent, which ranked 86th in the country. He was 51.4 percent against pressure (79th) and 71.8 percent from a "clean" pocket (72nd).
- Football Outsiders is another analytics site that has developed its own metric, which is called QBase, and it has been accurate in predicting how a quarterback will transfer to the NFL. Allen receives the lowest grade by far of the top draftable quarterbacks, and the site calls his arm "a howitzer without a target."
Then there's...
The Sub-60 Percent Club
Quarterbacks drafted in the past 10 years (Rounds 1-3) who had a career completion rate below 60 percent in college:
Year Player College Pct. Pro Pct. NFL W-L and status * - has not played; **- six passes Note: Dolphins' Pat White not included because he was drafted as WildDawg quarterback 2016 Christian Hackenberg 56.1 NP* 0-0, with Jets 2016 Jacoby Brissett 59.5 59.2 4-12, with Colts 2011 Jake Locker 54.0 57.5 9-14, out of league 2011 Colin Kaepernick 58.2 59.7 28-30, out of league 2011 Ryan Mallett 57.8 55.1 3-5, unsigned free agent 2009 Matt Stafford 57.1 62.0 60-65, Lions starter 2009 Josh Freeman 59.1 57.6 25-36, out of league 2008 Matt Ryan 59.9 64.9 96-63, Falcons starter 2008 Chad Henne 59.7 58.3 18-35, Chiefs backup 2008 Kevin O'Connell 57.7 66.7** 0-0, out of league Great presentation, sound reasoning and excellent use of examples.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
If you would have taken 1/8th of a second, you would have seen that O'Connell's improvement from college was based on six pro passes.
LOL-therefore 4 completed passes with the 66.7% round-up..
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He doesn’t throw with great timing or anticipation, and his arm is so strong that he can make up for it. The thing that he has to learn how to do is learn how to play the position where he can layer throws.”
Why is he even in the discussion for #1 overall?
gee, go ask all those "experts" that have him going #1 overall. I didn't tell em to do it.
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If you would have taken 1/8th of a second, you would have seen that O'Connell's improvement from college was based on six pro passes.
LOL-therefore 4 completed passes with the 66.7% round-up..
LOL-therefore 4 completed passes with the 66.7% round-up..
It's almost impressive how consistently inept cal is.
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Possibly a bridge QB who improved his accuracy,who’s to say Allen can’t improve his accuracy after working on it and sitting and learning the pro game for a year
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If you would have taken 1/8th of a second, you would have seen that O'Connell's improvement from college was based on six pro passes.
LOL-therefore 4 completed passes with the 66.7% round-up..
LOL-therefore 4 completed passes with the 66.7% round-up..
so, you rosen groupies are saying that if a qb throws a lot more passes, his accuracy improves? LOL
you said a qb never improves in accuracy when he goes to the pros. So, that isn't true. NOW the feeble comeback is he didn't throw many passes. Ok, riddle the rest of the board with this:
Passing Year School Conf Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate Career Fresno State 511 865 59.1 7631 8.8 8.9 53 22 148.3 *1991 Fresno State Big West QB 9 69 109 63.3 832 7.6 6.8 2 3 128.0 *1992 Fresno State WAC QB 13 188 360 52.2 3000 8.3 7.8 21 14 133.7 *1993 Fresno State WAC QB 12 254 396 64.1 3799 9.6 10.5 30 5 167.2 -
Possibly a bridge QB who improved his accuracy,who’s to say Allen can’t improve his accuracy after working on it and sitting and learning the pro game for a year
Possibly a bridge QB who improved his accuracy,who’s to say Allen can’t improve his accuracy after working on it and sitting and learning the pro game for a year
I'd be pretty upset if I used the #1 overall pick on a QB and only got a QB of Tyrod Taylor's ability.
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LOL-therefore 4 completed passes with the 66.7% round-up..
so, you rosen groupies are saying that if a qb throws a lot more passes, his accuracy improves? LOL
you said a qb never improves in accuracy when he goes to the pros. So, that isn't true. NOW the feeble comeback is he didn't throw many passes. Ok, riddle the rest of the board with this:
Passing Year School Conf Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate Career Fresno State 511 865 59.1 7631 8.8 8.9 53 22 148.3 *1991 Fresno State Big West QB 9 69 109 63.3 832 7.6 6.8 2 3 128.0 *1992 Fresno State WAC QB 13 188 360 52.2 3000 8.3 7.8 21 14 133.7 *1993 Fresno State WAC QB 12 254 396 64.1 3799 9.6 10.5 30 5 167.2 so, you rosen groupies are saying that if a qb throws a lot more passes, his accuracy improves? LOL
you said a qb never improves in accuracy when he goes to the pros. So, that isn't true. NOW the feeble comeback is he didn't throw many passes. Ok, riddle the rest of the board with this:
Passing Year School Conf Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate Career Fresno State 511 865 59.1 7631 8.8 8.9 53 22 148.3 *1991 Fresno State Big West QB 9 69 109 63.3 832 7.6 6.8 2 3 128.0 *1992 Fresno State WAC QB 13 188 360 52.2 3000 8.3 7.8 21 14 133.7 *1993 Fresno State WAC QB 12 254 396 64.1 3799 9.6 10.5 30 5 167.2 What in the Wide Wide World of Sports?
Did cal just have a stroke?
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So, Trent Dilfer's completion percentage was 63.3 "he's going to be a star in the NFL"
no, wait, his second year - he was only 52.2 percent. He won't make it in the NFL.
NO, wait... his third year he was 64.1 completion percentage. "HE IS GOING TO BE A STAR IN THE NFL"
what happened there? Maybe turnover of players around him?
yet, in his nice career in the NFL - over the years, he never threw for over 60 percent or higher completion rate.
1994 Tampa Bay 5 2 38 82 46.3 433 5.3 1 6 36.3 1995 Tampa Bay 16 16 224 415 54.0 2774 6.7 4 18 60.1 1996 Tampa Bay 16 16 267 482 55.4 2859 5.9 12 19 64.8 1997 Tampa Bay 16 16 217 386 56.2 2555 6.6 21 11 82.8 1998 Tampa Bay 16 16 225 429 52.4 2729 6.4 21 15 74.0 1999 Tampa Bay 10 10 146 244 59.8 1619 6.6 11 11 75.8 2000 Baltimore 11 8 134 226 59.3 1502 6.6 12 11 76.6 2001 Seattle 6 4 73 122 59.8 1014 8.3 7 4 92.0 2002 Seattle 6 6 94 168 56.0 1182 7.0 4 6 71.1 2003 Seattle 5 0 4 8 50.0 31 3.9 1 1 59.9 2004 Seattle 5 2 25 58 43.1 333 5.7 1 3 46.1 2005 Cleveland 11 11 199 333 59.8 2321 7.0 11 12 76.9 2007 San Francisco 7 6 113 219 51.6 1166 6.3 7 12 55.1 Career Totals 130 113 1759 3172 55.5 20518 6.5 113 129 70.2 -
yet, he went to the superbowl. and won it.
Point being - a lot more factors that just a simple completion percentage stat makes a qb.
Baltimore Ravens
Dilfer signed with the Ravens on March 8, 2000 and became the backup for Tony Banks. After two straight losses and four straight weeks without an offensive touchdown, the Ravens replaced Banks with Dilfer. The Ravens would lose their third straight game and fail to score a touchdown for the fifth straight week. It would be the last time the Ravens would lose a game that season, or go without a touchdown. The Ravens finished the season winning seven straight to earn a wild card berth at 12–4. The 7–1 run also gave Dilfer a 45–39 record as a starter at that point.
In the playoffs, Dilfer went 3–0, and the Ravens advanced to Super Bowl XXXV in Tampa, Florida to meet the New York Giants. Halfway through the first quarter he connected with Brandon Stokley on a deep post for a 38-yard touchdown, badly beating Jason Sehorn. A third down 44-yard pass to Qadry Ismail would set up a field goal before halftime, to give Baltimore a 10–0 lead. The Ravens eventually won 34–7. Dilfer's game stats were 12 completions for 153 yards and 1 TD.[4] Although one of Dilfer's passes was intercepted by linebacker Jessie Armstead and returned for a touchdown, the call was overturned due to a holding penalty against the Giants. The Los Angeles Times later described Dilfer as a game manager quarterback for the Ravens that season: He "wasn't elite, but he didn't make costly mistakes, and was supported by a dominant defense."[5] Dilfer wasn't re-signed by the Ravens, making him the only quarterback to be let go after winning a Super Bowl.
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Tyrod Taylor may very well be the best QB the Browns put on the field since Bernie Kosar, we shall see.
Tyrod Taylor may very well be the best QB the Browns put on the field since Bernie Kosar, we shall see.
That probably speaks to how bad the Browns have been since Kosar more than to Taylor's ability, but you are right, we shall see.
Taylor is a guy IMO who won't lose you many games, but isn't going to win you many either. On one hand, he doesn't turn the ball over, which will be a welcome change from last season, but on the other hand he's very limited as a passer. A draft guide I have said this about the Bills QB situation:
"After three years of mediocrity, the Bills are expected to move on from Taylor in the offseason... Taylor did an excellent job of protecting the ball and running with it, but he struggles to throw it, and the Bills' passing offense has suffered because of it."
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So, Trent Dilfer's completion percentage was 63.3 "he's going to be a star in the NFL"
no, wait, his second year - he was only 52.2 percent. He won't make it in the NFL.
NO, wait... his third year he was 64.1 completion percentage. "HE IS GOING TO BE A STAR IN THE NFL"
what happened there? Maybe turnover of players around him?
yet, in his nice career in the NFL - over the years, he never threw for over 60 percent or higher completion rate.
1994 Tampa Bay 5 2 38 82 46.3 433 5.3 1 6 36.3 1995 Tampa Bay 16 16 224 415 54.0 2774 6.7 4 18 60.1 1996 Tampa Bay 16 16 267 482 55.4 2859 5.9 12 19 64.8 1997 Tampa Bay 16 16 217 386 56.2 2555 6.6 21 11 82.8 1998 Tampa Bay 16 16 225 429 52.4 2729 6.4 21 15 74.0 1999 Tampa Bay 10 10 146 244 59.8 1619 6.6 11 11 75.8 2000 Baltimore 11 8 134 226 59.3 1502 6.6 12 11 76.6 2001 Seattle 6 4 73 122 59.8 1014 8.3 7 4 92.0 2002 Seattle 6 6 94 168 56.0 1182 7.0 4 6 71.1 2003 Seattle 5 0 4 8 50.0 31 3.9 1 1 59.9 2004 Seattle 5 2 25 58 43.1 333 5.7 1 3 46.1 2005 Cleveland 11 11 199 333 59.8 2321 7.0 11 12 76.9 2007 San Francisco 7 6 113 219 51.6 1166 6.3 7 12 55.1 Career Totals 130 113 1759 3172 55.5 20518 6.5 113 129 70.2 So, Trent Dilfer's completion percentage was 63.3 "he's going to be a star in the NFL"
no, wait, his second year - he was only 52.2 percent. He won't make it in the NFL.
NO, wait... his third year he was 64.1 completion percentage. "HE IS GOING TO BE A STAR IN THE NFL"
what happened there? Maybe turnover of players around him?
yet, in his nice career in the NFL - over the years, he never threw for over 60 percent or higher completion rate.
1994 Tampa Bay 5 2 38 82 46.3 433 5.3 1 6 36.3 1995 Tampa Bay 16 16 224 415 54.0 2774 6.7 4 18 60.1 1996 Tampa Bay 16 16 267 482 55.4 2859 5.9 12 19 64.8 1997 Tampa Bay 16 16 217 386 56.2 2555 6.6 21 11 82.8 1998 Tampa Bay 16 16 225 429 52.4 2729 6.4 21 15 74.0 1999 Tampa Bay 10 10 146 244 59.8 1619 6.6 11 11 75.8 2000 Baltimore 11 8 134 226 59.3 1502 6.6 12 11 76.6 2001 Seattle 6 4 73 122 59.8 1014 8.3 7 4 92.0 2002 Seattle 6 6 94 168 56.0 1182 7.0 4 6 71.1 2003 Seattle 5 0 4 8 50.0 31 3.9 1 1 59.9 2004 Seattle 5 2 25 58 43.1 333 5.7 1 3 46.1 2005 Cleveland 11 11 199 333 59.8 2321 7.0 11 12 76.9 2007 San Francisco 7 6 113 219 51.6 1166 6.3 7 12 55.1 Career Totals 130 113 1759 3172 55.5 20518 6.5 113 129 70.2 He had a career QB rating of 70.2 and threw more interceptions than TDs.
The Ravens won a Super Bowl with him because of one of the greatest defenses ever, and mediocre postseason competition. The Ravens were so impressed with Dilfer that they replaced him the next season.
I'm struggling trying to understand your point here.
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What does an article detailing why college QBs struggle making the transition to the NFL have to do with Josh Allen struggling in college?
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If you would have taken 1/8th of a second, you would have seen that O'Connell's improvement from college was based on six pro passes.
And I even included the footnote in the copy/paste.
I swear the boy has the reading habits of a President...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
lol... my ego is unaltered... and a source close to Dorsey should know, not think...
Even Hue knows the truth of it...
But Jackson said last week -- and has said before -- that although a quarterback can improve fundamentally, he usually is what he is when it comes to completion percentage.
"I think you said it, you never feel like that that's something that you can just totally fix," Jackson said. "I think you can help improve it, but fix it, that's kind of hard to do. But at the same time, I watched him improve with some fundamentals that he needed to work on to give himself a chance to be more accurate."
Also from the article:
- Allen also did not have a high percentage of passes dropped. Wyoming's 4.2 drop percentage was barely higher than the national average of 4.1 and less than UCLA's 6.3 for Rosen.
- Pro Football Focus' analytics and stats show that Allen's 56 percent number had little to do with the talent around him. PFF reports that Allen completed just 13 of 42 passes thrown downfield (more than 20 yards from the line of scrimmage) and 1-of-13 when throwing deep to the right. PFF eliminated drops, spikes, balls knocked down and throws affected by the pass rush, and Allen completed 65.7 percent, which ranked 86th in the country. He was 51.4 percent against pressure (79th) and 71.8 percent from a "clean" pocket (72nd).
- Football Outsiders is another analytics site that has developed its own metric, which is called QBase, and it has been accurate in predicting how a quarterback will transfer to the NFL. Allen receives the lowest grade by far of the top draftable quarterbacks, and the site calls his arm "a howitzer without a target."
Then there's...
The Sub-60 Percent Club
Quarterbacks drafted in the past 10 years (Rounds 1-3) who had a career completion rate below 60 percent in college:
Year Player College Pct. Pro Pct. NFL W-L and status * - has not played; **- six passes Note: Dolphins' Pat White not included because he was drafted as WildDawg quarterback 2016 Christian Hackenberg 56.1 NP* 0-0, with Jets 2016 Jacoby Brissett 59.5 59.2 4-12, with Colts 2011 Jake Locker 54.0 57.5 9-14, out of league 2011 Colin Kaepernick 58.2 59.7 28-30, out of league 2011 Ryan Mallett 57.8 55.1 3-5, unsigned free agent 2009 Matt Stafford 57.1 62.0 60-65, Lions starter 2009 Josh Freeman 59.1 57.6 25-36, out of league 2008 Matt Ryan 59.9 64.9 96-63, Falcons starter 2008 Chad Henne 59.7 58.3 18-35, Chiefs backup 2008 Kevin O'Connell 57.7 66.7** 0-0, out of league Great presentation, sound reasoning and excellent use of examples.
Great presentation, sound reasoning and excellent use of examples.
Why thank you, sir...
Have I told you recently how extremely good-looking you are?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Possibly a bridge QB who improved his accuracy,who’s to say Allen can’t improve his accuracy after working on it and sitting and learning the pro game for a year
Possibly a bridge QB who improved his accuracy,who’s to say Allen can’t improve his accuracy after working on it and sitting and learning the pro game for a year
No one can say that he can't... and no one including me is saying he can't. All we are saying is that the odds are he won't.
Looking at the list we see two in ten... that's one in five "sub 60" that improves a rate far below the 50/50 shot that 1st Round QBs carry overall.
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