POLL: When will Baker start?
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But you also have to take into consideration on who was calling the plays last year and how it affected are skill players
HUe will STILL be calling the plays, The OC only does what the HC gives him a map to do. OC = Coffee Fetcher. Hue Jackson has Dee's approval, so he rules and runs this team.
HUe will STILL be calling the plays, The OC only does what the HC gives him a map to do. OC = Coffee Fetcher. Hue Jackson has Dee's approval, so he rules and runs this team.
I do not believe this will be the case at all. Haley is THE man for calling plays and designing the offense. I'm sure Hue and he will work on the game plan but play to play in game is Haley.
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The Baker Mayfield Era will start sooner than later. I don't know if you can sit a guy like this. If he's all we hope for and more the team will demand to play for Baker. He's their leader now- likely they won't declare Mayfield the starter because it'd be stupid. They want Mayfield to beat Taylor for it. They did the same thing last year with Kizer... magically rising in the ranks each preseason game and declared he won it. The situation may be the same but the QBs are very different, therefor the results will be different as well. Dorsey may be "in charge" now but Hue's gonna do what Hue's gonna do.
I think Mayfield does start the opener in Cleveland- the mania will be tangible- and if he is able to beat the Steelers and win our first home opener this decade, a legend will be born.
The Baker Mayfield Era will start sooner than later. I don't know if you can sit a guy like this. If he's all we hope for and more the team will demand to play for Baker. He's their leader now- likely they won't declare Mayfield the starter because it'd be stupid. They want Mayfield to beat Taylor for it. They did the same thing last year with Kizer... magically rising in the ranks each preseason game and declared he won it. The situation may be the same but the QBs are very different, therefor the results will be different as well. Dorsey may be "in charge" now but Hue's gonna do what Hue's gonna do.
I think Mayfield does start the opener in Cleveland- the mania will be tangible- and if he is able to beat the Steelers and win our first home opener this decade, a legend will be born.
I'd like to think Mayfield sits until AT LEAST the bye week, but I wouldn't be shocked at all if he starts Week 1.
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Then, a few lines (and taunts) later...
Yepp. That was consistent.
It's offseason, the days after Draft gifts. You cannot ask a 1-35 team fans not to wonder when will they see their new toys in action.
Look dimple finger............. learn to comprehend. I am assuming you did not do well in English classes?
When I said "nobody can predict" when Baker will start, I meant it, and I did not contradict myself. The point I was making is that there are a ton of variables that will affect this. THe point I was making is that even Hue and Dorsey don't know when Baker will start. The point I was making was that no matter what the staff decides............ IF the Browns go 0 - 7, there might very well be so much pressure from the fans, and embarrassment on Haslam that Baker could get called up. I never said he WILL. Along the same lines, management can say they are sitting him most of the season, but should Tie Rod get hurt....................the plan to start Baker changes. Likewise, if the kid show up Black Tarkenton in camp and preseason, management may scrap the plans to sit Baker and fire him right up.
This is not something that anyone can predict.
Look dimple finger............. learn to comprehend. I am assuming you did not do well in English classes?
LOL! I'd say his English is far better than many on here and not bad at all for a guy who has lived in Pamplona, Spain all his life learning English as a second language.
EDIT: And living that close to France I'm betting he knows a bit about French too. Maybe even some Italian as well. Am I giving you too much credit there Nero?
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As I said,
If Mayfield outperforms Tie Rod................. which he will, then the Browns have a problem sitting the kid.
Also.......... TieRod is Black Tarkenton. Run first QBs get hurt, and in Cleveland? I promise you, if Taylor does start, he will get fukcked up before too long. Mayfield is NOT going to be on the bench for the majority of the season. You would have to be a fool to think that.
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This is the same line of thought I initiated the Mayfield Mayehm thread. Redundant.
As I replied to Orion, you can create your little scenarios about how we should proceed... blah, blah. blah.. let tie rod do this....then let Mayfield do this......
Sorry, but you just cannot predict when Baker will start. There are a ton of variables involved and nobody here knows when the right time will be. Not even the coaches nor Dorsey know that. All this bullschidt about starting him when he is ready is absolute Browns, self-deprecating, annual stupidity.
If Mayfield shows up Tie Rod in camp and preseason, that means he is better. Period. It doesn't matter what his experience level is........... if he beats Tie Rod then CLEARLY, Tie Rod's "experience" doesn't amount to a hill of schidt. How much NFL experience did Sipe have when he rescued the Browns? How much " mentoring" did Brady have? Is the ideal situation to let Tie Rod help build the team, maybe win 7 or 8 games and then hand it off to Mayfield? Yeah.....for you pussies.
It doesn't matter if you think Mayfield is ready or not. If the Browns are 0 - 7, Haslam will face testicular amputation. NOBODY is going to put up for another year like that. We go 0 - a bunch, Mayfiled is going to be baptized by fire. That's just how it works. Nobody in their right mind sits their better QB. YOu can slobber all you want about the pro set, and blah blah blah, but football is the game even a mental moron (Kosar) can master. It is 99% athleticism and natural instinct. If Mayfield is the schidt................. nobody in their right mind is going to play Tie Rod Tarlenton.
Sorry, but you just cannot predict when Baker will start. There are a ton of variables involved and nobody here knows when the right time will be. Not even the coaches nor Dorsey know that
True Dat.
And PoG showed us a video of all the #1 pick QB's in recent history...and how many started week one. I think the difference here is that we knew we were taking a QB #1 overall. AND we traded for an experienced QB to start for us so that our #1 pick QB would NOT play. We have an actual plan.
As you say Ghoolie (won't call you Ghoul if you play nice), Then life happens and all bets are off. Yup, if Baker learns the playbook better than TieRod...if he practices better than TieRod...if he plays better than TieRod. But that's an awful lot of if's for a rookie QB. Kizer started last year, but like I said last year, the bar for him was low. We had inexperienced bums that he had to beat out. The bar is higher this year for Baker.
Yes, we have a trigger fingered owner who will want Baker playing if we're losing. And we have Hue who will, again this year, do anything he can to save his job...including playing Mayfield when he may not be ready.
TieRod has learned an NFL playbook before. TieRod has experienced the speed of the NFL. He's taken snaps under center, called out protections, identified blitzers, called audibles, etc. Baker needs to learn a lot of that.
I hope we win some games so that Baker can come in and take over when he has control of what he's been taught. (I can hope, right?)
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
Then, a few lines (and taunts) later...
Yepp. That was consistent.
It's offseason, the days after Draft gifts. You cannot ask a 1-35 team fans not to wonder when will they see their new toys in action.
Look dimple finger............. learn to comprehend. I am assuming you did not do well in English classes?
When I said "nobody can predict" when Baker will start, I meant it, and I did not contradict myself. The point I was making is that there are a ton of variables that will affect this. THe point I was making is that even Hue and Dorsey don't know when Baker will start. The point I was making was that no matter what the staff decides............ IF the Browns go 0 - 7, there might very well be so much pressure from the fans, and embarrassment on Haslam that Baker could get called up. I never said he WILL. Along the same lines, management can say they are sitting him most of the season, but should Tie Rod get hurt....................the plan to start Baker changes. Likewise, if the kid show up Black Tarkenton in camp and preseason, management may scrap the plans to sit Baker and fire him right up.
This is not something that anyone can predict.
Look dimple finger............. learn to comprehend. I am assuming you did not do well in English classes?
When I said "nobody can predict" when Baker will start, I meant it, and I did not contradict myself. The point I was making is that there are a ton of variables that will affect this. THe point I was making is that even Hue and Dorsey don't know when Baker will start. The point I was making was that no matter what the staff decides............ IF the Browns go 0 - 7, there might very well be so much pressure from the fans, and embarrassment on Haslam that Baker could get called up. I never said he WILL. Along the same lines, management can say they are sitting him most of the season, but should Tie Rod get hurt....................the plan to start Baker changes. Likewise, if the kid show up Black Tarkenton in camp and preseason, management may scrap the plans to sit Baker and fire him right up.
This is not something that anyone can predict.
I was trying to pull your leg there, lol. I understood what you meant, but I was trying to imply the bit that I didn't quote, the "Browns fans annual deprecating themselves". Because your thinking isn't that far off of some who you call are self deprecating themselves, so there's no need to say that, in my point of view.
Of course nobody can predict what will happen, we can only make scenarios in our minds, you and the ones you accuse make them, all the time. And that's what this Board is all about.
I'm assuming you did not well in English classes?
At least in my case it was my third language classes behind Spanish and Basque!
LOL! I'd say his English is far better than many on here and not bad at all for a guy who has lived in Pamplona, Spain all his life learning English as a second language.
EDIT: And living that close to France I'm betting he knows a bit about French too. Maybe even some Italian as well. Am I giving you too much credit there Nero?
I've only lived in an English speaking country for two months when I went to work as a waiter in London back when I was 20.
Currently I'd say that the order is Spanish, English, Basque (sadly because I don't use it and I'm losing practise). Then I speak a little bit of French and German. I'm planning to learn both.
I have never learnt Italian, I just know a few words like everyone else, but it is said that for Spaniards it takes just 1-2 years to speak Italian quite fluently and vice versa. So I don't take it out of my wish list.
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Sorry, but you just cannot predict when Baker will start. There are a ton of variables involved and nobody here knows when the right time will be. Not even the coaches nor Dorsey know that
True Dat.
And PoG showed us a video of all the #1 pick QB's in recent history...and how many started week one. I think the difference here is that we knew we were taking a QB #1 overall. AND we traded for an experienced QB to start for us so that our #1 pick QB would NOT play. We have an actual plan.
As you say Ghoolie (won't call you Ghoul if you play nice), Then life happens and all bets are off. Yup, if Baker learns the playbook better than TieRod...if he practices better than TieRod...if he plays better than TieRod. But that's an awful lot of if's for a rookie QB. Kizer started last year, but like I said last year, the bar for him was low. We had inexperienced bums that he had to beat out. The bar is higher this year for Baker.
Yes, we have a trigger fingered owner who will want Baker playing if we're losing. And we have Hue who will, again this year, do anything he can to save his job...including playing Mayfield when he may not be ready.
TieRod has learned an NFL playbook before. TieRod has experienced the speed of the NFL. He's taken snaps under center, called out protections, identified blitzers, called audibles, etc. Baker needs to learn a lot of that.
I hope we win some games so that Baker can come in and take over when he has control of what he's been taught. (I can hope, right?)
True Dat.
And PoG showed us a video of all the #1 pick QB's in recent history...and how many started week one. I think the difference here is that we knew we were taking a QB #1 overall. AND we traded for an experienced QB to start for us so that our #1 pick QB would NOT play. We have an actual plan.
As you say Ghoolie (won't call you Ghoul if you play nice), Then life happens and all bets are off. Yup, if Baker learns the playbook better than TieRod...if he practices better than TieRod...if he plays better than TieRod. But that's an awful lot of if's for a rookie QB. Kizer started last year, but like I said last year, the bar for him was low. We had inexperienced bums that he had to beat out. The bar is higher this year for Baker.
Yes, we have a trigger fingered owner who will want Baker playing if we're losing. And we have Hue who will, again this year, do anything he can to save his job...including playing Mayfield when he may not be ready.
TieRod has learned an NFL playbook before. TieRod has experienced the speed of the NFL. He's taken snaps under center, called out protections, identified blitzers, called audibles, etc. Baker needs to learn a lot of that.
I hope we win some games so that Baker can come in and take over when he has control of what he's been taught. (I can hope, right?)
I don't have a disagreement with any of this. I do believe that there is a tendency, maybe even wishful thinking every year that finally the Browns have a common sense plan in place for rearing the new QB. I have never believed this to be the case, and hence a lot of guys argue with me, and of course get the fire of Ghoolie. On the surface, it looks good. Seasoned Vet to give the new kid a stay of execution, give the Browns a chance to groom the guy for a year.... learn the nuances, learn the schemes, etc etc etc.
Do you think that's what management is hoping for? A good solid year from Tie Rod and then Baker eases into the scene?
I really don't believe that at all. I believe TieRod is nothing more than an insurance policy, a buffer if you will. Follow with me.
1) If Tie Rod plays well, we winn 6, 7,8 or more games, management wins. They look good, Baker isn't thrown to the wolves.
2) Tie Rod blows, Haslam forces his hand and play Baker. Baker amazes, Jimmy looks great. Baker blows, Jimmy blames it on Tie Rod no holding his end down.
I don't think anyone in management sees any path where Baker does not, at some point in 2018 assume ownership of the team. He has to. You can't have the #1 pick on the bench all year, then Tie Rod going 10 -6, so now, why even bring Baker in, the case could be made. There is a high probability that Tie rod Tarkenton is going to get hurt. I really believe this. I believe he was brought in as a fluffer.
We shall see.
The Cleveland Browns have the hardest hit players in the NFL -
Look dimple finger............. learn to comprehend. I am assuming you did not do well in English classes?
When I said "nobody can predict" when Baker will start, I meant it, and I did not contradict myself. The point I was making is that there are a ton of variables that will affect this. THe point I was making is that even Hue and Dorsey don't know when Baker will start. The point I was making was that no matter what the staff decides............ IF the Browns go 0 - 7, there might very well be so much pressure from the fans, and embarrassment on Haslam that Baker could get called up. I never said he WILL. Along the same lines, management can say they are sitting him most of the season, but should Tie Rod get hurt....................the plan to start Baker changes. Likewise, if the kid show up Black Tarkenton in camp and preseason, management may scrap the plans to sit Baker and fire him right up.
This is not something that anyone can predict.
I was trying to pull your leg there, lol. I understood what you meant, but I was trying to imply the bit that I didn't quote, the "Browns fans annual deprecating themselves". Because your thinking isn't that far off of some who you call are self deprecating themselves, so there's no need to say that, in my point of view.
Of course nobody can predict what will happen, we can only make scenarios in our minds, you and the ones you accuse make them, all the time. And that's what this Board is all about.
I'm assuming you did not well in English classes?
At least in my case it was my third language classes behind Spanish and Basque!
LOL! I'd say his English is far better than many on here and not bad at all for a guy who has lived in Pamplona, Spain all his life learning English as a second language.
EDIT: And living that close to France I'm betting he knows a bit about French too. Maybe even some Italian as well. Am I giving you too much credit there Nero?
I've only lived in an English speaking country for two months when I went to work as a waiter in London back when I was 20.
Currently I'd say that the order is Spanish, English, Basque (sadly because I don't use it and I'm losing practise). Then I speak a little bit of French and German. I'm planning to learn both.
I have never learnt Italian, I just know a few words like everyone else, but it is said that for Spaniards it takes just 1-2 years to speak Italian quite fluently and vice versa. So I don't take it out of my wish list.
Currently I'd say that the order is Spanish, English, Basque (sadly because I don't use it and I'm losing practise). Then I speak a little bit of French and German. I'm planning to learn both.
I have never learnt Italian, I just know a few words like everyone else, but it is said that for Spaniards it takes just 1-2 years to speak Italian quite fluently and vice versa. So I don't take it out of my wish list.
If you went to Italy and stayed immersed in it for about two months, you'd be fluent because of Spanish being your first language. I used the BBC elementary Italian program on line for about two months before we took a 2 week visit and even though my Spanish stays very rusty from non-use, by the end of that two weeks I could understand the gist of what was being said and was able to reply in at least an elementary sense. When I go to a Spanish speaking country it takes me a few days to get back enough fluency to stay up decently as long as I do not fear being wrong or ask for the proper way to say things. I would like to go do an immersion course like in Madrid or Argentina some day where you go to school all day and live with a local family when not in school. I think it's the only way I can get back what I had over 50 years ago in Venezuela. Had a funny conversation with a waitress in a Madrid where we were speaking back in forth quite well. Turned out that she was from Caracas where I learned the majority of my Spanish. Dialects help! LOL!
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domcooch's thread got merged and now I've got Phoolie all over my shoes...
... I hate it when that happens.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
domcooch's thread got merged and now I've got Phoolie all over my shoes...
... I hate it when that happens.
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domcooch's thread got merged and now I've got Phoolie all over my shoes...
... I hate it when that happens.
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What happens in camp if Baker is clearly better than Tie Rod?
I am not stirring up schidt here, BUT.............if we are to believe anything about Mayfield, he is a balls-to-the-wall fighter. So what happens if he shows all the other QBs up? Does he sit the bench? And if he does sit regardless of his performance, will it make him bitter? If he shows Tie Rod up, would he deserve to start? Would that be another Kizer fiasco?
The Browns have set themselves up for another QB controversy IF Mayfield shows the veteran up. Especially if Tie Rod stars and once again the Browns find themselves in Goosegg town.
What happens in camp if Baker is clearly better than Tie Rod?
I am not stirring up schidt here, BUT.............if we are to believe anything about Mayfield, he is a balls-to-the-wall fighter. So what happens if he shows all the other QBs up? Does he sit the bench? And if he does sit regardless of his performance, will it make him bitter? If he shows Tie Rod up, would he deserve to start? Would that be another Kizer fiasco?
The Browns have set themselves up for another QB controversy IF Mayfield shows the veteran up. Especially if Tie Rod stars and once again the Browns find themselves in Goosegg town.
So....this is interesting and not totally unprecedented. What we need to remember is that Baker is used to being 3rd string and then winning the starting gig relatively quickly. This is a guy who lives and loves football, and he will study and train until he can't do anymore. Baker isn't somebody who will slack off or be unprepared. He's obviously going to struggle with the size and complexity of the playbook, and of course learning how to call plays and be under center will be foreign to him. It will definitely take some time. The difference between Baker and somebody like Johnny is that Baker will probably sleep with the playbook under his pillow. I can see him standing in front of the mirror practicing calling out complicated plays. THAT'S who he is.
There are a few answers to your question. Believe it or not, we could actually TRADE Tyrod Taylor. Tyrod is a playoff QB who is 28. A prime asset. If Baker essentially explodes onto the scene, and does so relatively fast, we may give Tyrod the chance to play somewhere else by trading him to a team that suffers a QB injury in camp, or some other similar situation. I believe this scenario to be EXTREMELY unlikely, but it's possible.
Basically, we want to be very cautious with Baker, but we also can't keep him benched if he's the better option. Don't forget, the players see practice every day. They will know who is better, and they will want the guy who gives them the best chance to win and make plays. If Tyrod is playing too conservatively and our playmakers aren't getting the opportunities....there could be some grumbling. Again, I VERY much doubt this happens, as veterans much prefer veteran qb's. I don't see us trading a 3rd rounder for Tyrod only to bench him. He's going to play and probably play pretty well, like he usually does.
The thing to watch is Baker in the preseason. How does he do in the 3rd game? The first 2 are always kind of a mess. The 4th is usually a joke. The 3rd is when teams play their best players for the longest. If Baker looks prepared, competent, and "at ease" during the 3rd game, you will hear the whispers come out. If he then lights up the useless 4th game, the whispers will get louder. If we drafted Darnold, I'd say let him sit basically all year. But we have my man Baker, and Baker is used to taking jobs. My preference is for Baker to sit at least through 10 games, maybe longer, but I can definitely envision a scenario where he plays earlier, possibly from the first game.
My best guess is that Tyrod wins the job, plays pretty well, and Baker plays the last 4-5 games after we're eliminated.
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What happens in camp if Baker is clearly better than Tie Rod?
I am not stirring up schidt here, BUT.............if we are to believe anything about Mayfield, he is a balls-to-the-wall fighter. So what happens if he shows all the other QBs up? Does he sit the bench? And if he does sit regardless of his performance, will it make him bitter? If he shows Tie Rod up, would he deserve to start? Would that be another Kizer fiasco?
The Browns have set themselves up for another QB controversy IF Mayfield shows the veteran up. Especially if Tie Rod stars and once again the Browns find themselves in Goosegg town.
So....this is interesting and not totally unprecedented. What we need to remember is that Baker is used to being 3rd string and then winning the starting gig relatively quickly. This is a guy who lives and loves football, and he will study and train until he can't do anymore. Baker isn't somebody who will slack off or be unprepared. He's obviously going to struggle with the size and complexity of the playbook, and of course learning how to call plays and be under center will be foreign to him. It will definitely take some time. The difference between Baker and somebody like Johnny is that Baker will probably sleep with the playbook under his pillow. I can see him standing in front of the mirror practicing calling out complicated plays. THAT'S who he is.
There are a few answers to your question. Believe it or not, we could actually TRADE Tyrod Taylor. Tyrod is a playoff QB who is 28. A prime asset. If Baker essentially explodes onto the scene, and does so relatively fast, we may give Tyrod the chance to play somewhere else by trading him to a team that suffers a QB injury in camp, or some other similar situation. I believe this scenario to be EXTREMELY unlikely, but it's possible.
Basically, we want to be very cautious with Baker, but we also can't keep him benched if he's the better option. Don't forget, the players see practice every day. They will know who is better, and they will want the guy who gives them the best chance to win and make plays. If Tyrod is playing too conservatively and our playmakers aren't getting the opportunities....there could be some grumbling. Again, I VERY much doubt this happens, as veterans much prefer veteran qb's. I don't see us trading a 3rd rounder for Tyrod only to bench him. He's going to play and probably play pretty well, like he usually does.
The thing to watch is Baker in the preseason. How does he do in the 3rd game? The first 2 are always kind of a mess. The 4th is usually a joke. The 3rd is when teams play their best players for the longest. If Baker looks prepared, competent, and "at ease" during the 3rd game, you will hear the whispers come out. If he then lights up the useless 4th game, the whispers will get louder. If we drafted Darnold, I'd say let him sit basically all year. But we have my man Baker, and Baker is used to taking jobs. My preference is for Baker to sit at least through 10 games, maybe longer, but I can definitely envision a scenario where he plays earlier, possibly from the first game.
My best guess is that Tyrod wins the job, plays pretty well, and Baker plays the last 4-5 games after we're eliminated.
So....this is interesting and not totally unprecedented. What we need to remember is that Baker is used to being 3rd string and then winning the starting gig relatively quickly. This is a guy who lives and loves football, and he will study and train until he can't do anymore. Baker isn't somebody who will slack off or be unprepared. He's obviously going to struggle with the size and complexity of the playbook, and of course learning how to call plays and be under center will be foreign to him. It will definitely take some time. The difference between Baker and somebody like Johnny is that Baker will probably sleep with the playbook under his pillow. I can see him standing in front of the mirror practicing calling out complicated plays. THAT'S who he is.
There are a few answers to your question. Believe it or not, we could actually TRADE Tyrod Taylor. Tyrod is a playoff QB who is 28. A prime asset. If Baker essentially explodes onto the scene, and does so relatively fast, we may give Tyrod the chance to play somewhere else by trading him to a team that suffers a QB injury in camp, or some other similar situation. I believe this scenario to be EXTREMELY unlikely, but it's possible.
Basically, we want to be very cautious with Baker, but we also can't keep him benched if he's the better option. Don't forget, the players see practice every day. They will know who is better, and they will want the guy who gives them the best chance to win and make plays. If Tyrod is playing too conservatively and our playmakers aren't getting the opportunities....there could be some grumbling. Again, I VERY much doubt this happens, as veterans much prefer veteran qb's. I don't see us trading a 3rd rounder for Tyrod only to bench him. He's going to play and probably play pretty well, like he usually does.
The thing to watch is Baker in the preseason. How does he do in the 3rd game? The first 2 are always kind of a mess. The 4th is usually a joke. The 3rd is when teams play their best players for the longest. If Baker looks prepared, competent, and "at ease" during the 3rd game, you will hear the whispers come out. If he then lights up the useless 4th game, the whispers will get louder. If we drafted Darnold, I'd say let him sit basically all year. But we have my man Baker, and Baker is used to taking jobs. My preference is for Baker to sit at least through 10 games, maybe longer, but I can definitely envision a scenario where he plays earlier, possibly from the first game.
My best guess is that Tyrod wins the job, plays pretty well, and Baker plays the last 4-5 games after we're eliminated.
Good take with various possibilities. I would prefer Baker not start immediately, but we'll see what actually happens.
Mike
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So....this is interesting and not totally unprecedented. What we need to remember is that Baker is used to being 3rd string and then winning the starting gig relatively quickly. This is a guy who lives and loves football, and he will study and train until he can't do anymore. Baker isn't somebody who will slack off or be unprepared. He's obviously going to struggle with the size and complexity of the playbook, and of course learning how to call plays and be under center will be foreign to him. It will definitely take some time. The difference between Baker and somebody like Johnny is that Baker will probably sleep with the playbook under his pillow. I can see him standing in front of the mirror practicing calling out complicated plays. THAT'S who he is.
There are a few answers to your question. Believe it or not, we could actually TRADE Tyrod Taylor. Tyrod is a playoff QB who is 28. A prime asset. If Baker essentially explodes onto the scene, and does so relatively fast, we may give Tyrod the chance to play somewhere else by trading him to a team that suffers a QB injury in camp, or some other similar situation. I believe this scenario to be EXTREMELY unlikely, but it's possible.
Basically, we want to be very cautious with Baker, but we also can't keep him benched if he's the better option. Don't forget, the players see practice every day. They will know who is better, and they will want the guy who gives them the best chance to win and make plays. If Tyrod is playing too conservatively and our playmakers aren't getting the opportunities....there could be some grumbling. Again, I VERY much doubt this happens, as veterans much prefer veteran qb's. I don't see us trading a 3rd rounder for Tyrod only to bench him. He's going to play and probably play pretty well, like he usually does.
The thing to watch is Baker in the preseason. How does he do in the 3rd game? The first 2 are always kind of a mess. The 4th is usually a joke. The 3rd is when teams play their best players for the longest. If Baker looks prepared, competent, and "at ease" during the 3rd game, you will hear the whispers come out. If he then lights up the useless 4th game, the whispers will get louder. If we drafted Darnold, I'd say let him sit basically all year. But we have my man Baker, and Baker is used to taking jobs. My preference is for Baker to sit at least through 10 games, maybe longer, but I can definitely envision a scenario where he plays earlier, possibly from the first game.
My best guess is that Tyrod wins the job, plays pretty well, and Baker plays the last 4-5 games after we're eliminated.
Good take with various possibilities. I would prefer Baker not start immediately, but we'll see what actually happens.
Mike
Good take with various possibilities. I would prefer Baker not start immediately, but we'll see what actually happens.
Mike
And I would prefer that Baker only takes over in games we have put away and NOT play the last few games while we are making the playoffs.
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Good take with various possibilities. I would prefer Baker not start immediately, but we'll see what actually happens.
Mike
And I would prefer that Baker only takes over in games we have put away and NOT play the last few games while we are making the playoffs.
And I would prefer that Baker only takes over in games we have put away and NOT play the last few games while we are making the playoffs.
I'm not a huge Taylor fan but if he has games so far ahead it seems he would take umbrage to the seeming disrespect right? Just to be the Devil's Advocate isn't having a top-notch nfl-caliber quarterback at the helm the entire point? No matter who it might be?
WSS
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as a fellow Hokie, I hope Tyrod lights it up and brings the Browns to the playoffs. I think the only way we'll see Mayfield is if Taylor gets hurt. I just hope we don't hear "Mayfield" chants after the first interception, it really messed up Hoyer's winning streak the last time the Browns had a first-round QB on the bench and started calling for him at the first sign of trouble. As much as I like Mayfield as a QB, I also want to see what Tyrod Taylor can do with this team and am in no hurry to throw Mayfield out there for trial by fire until he decisively earns the starting role.
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What happens in camp if Baker is clearly better than Tie Rod?
I am not stirring up schidt here, BUT.............if we are to believe anything about Mayfield, he is a balls-to-the-wall fighter. So what happens if he shows all the other QBs up? Does he sit the bench? And if he does sit regardless of his performance, will it make him bitter? If he shows Tie Rod up, would he deserve to start? Would that be another Kizer fiasco?
The Browns have set themselves up for another QB controversy IF Mayfield shows the veteran up. Especially if Tie Rod stars and once again the Browns find themselves in Goosegg town.
So....this is interesting and not totally unprecedented. What we need to remember is that Baker is used to being 3rd string and then winning the starting gig relatively quickly. This is a guy who lives and loves football, and he will study and train until he can't do anymore. Baker isn't somebody who will slack off or be unprepared. He's obviously going to struggle with the size and complexity of the playbook, and of course learning how to call plays and be under center will be foreign to him. It will definitely take some time. The difference between Baker and somebody like Johnny is that Baker will probably sleep with the playbook under his pillow. I can see him standing in front of the mirror practicing calling out complicated plays. THAT'S who he is.
There are a few answers to your question. Believe it or not, we could actually TRADE Tyrod Taylor. Tyrod is a playoff QB who is 28. A prime asset. If Baker essentially explodes onto the scene, and does so relatively fast, we may give Tyrod the chance to play somewhere else by trading him to a team that suffers a QB injury in camp, or some other similar situation. I believe this scenario to be EXTREMELY unlikely, but it's possible.
Basically, we want to be very cautious with Baker, but we also can't keep him benched if he's the better option. Don't forget, the players see practice every day. They will know who is better, and they will want the guy who gives them the best chance to win and make plays. If Tyrod is playing too conservatively and our playmakers aren't getting the opportunities....there could be some grumbling. Again, I VERY much doubt this happens, as veterans much prefer veteran qb's. I don't see us trading a 3rd rounder for Tyrod only to bench him. He's going to play and probably play pretty well, like he usually does.
The thing to watch is Baker in the preseason. How does he do in the 3rd game? The first 2 are always kind of a mess. The 4th is usually a joke. The 3rd is when teams play their best players for the longest. If Baker looks prepared, competent, and "at ease" during the 3rd game, you will hear the whispers come out. If he then lights up the useless 4th game, the whispers will get louder. If we drafted Darnold, I'd say let him sit basically all year. But we have my man Baker, and Baker is used to taking jobs. My preference is for Baker to sit at least through 10 games, maybe longer, but I can definitely envision a scenario where he plays earlier, possibly from the first game.
My best guess is that Tyrod wins the job, plays pretty well, and Baker plays the last 4-5 games after we're eliminated.
So....this is interesting and not totally unprecedented. What we need to remember is that Baker is used to being 3rd string and then winning the starting gig relatively quickly. This is a guy who lives and loves football, and he will study and train until he can't do anymore. Baker isn't somebody who will slack off or be unprepared. He's obviously going to struggle with the size and complexity of the playbook, and of course learning how to call plays and be under center will be foreign to him. It will definitely take some time. The difference between Baker and somebody like Johnny is that Baker will probably sleep with the playbook under his pillow. I can see him standing in front of the mirror practicing calling out complicated plays. THAT'S who he is.
There are a few answers to your question. Believe it or not, we could actually TRADE Tyrod Taylor. Tyrod is a playoff QB who is 28. A prime asset. If Baker essentially explodes onto the scene, and does so relatively fast, we may give Tyrod the chance to play somewhere else by trading him to a team that suffers a QB injury in camp, or some other similar situation. I believe this scenario to be EXTREMELY unlikely, but it's possible.
Basically, we want to be very cautious with Baker, but we also can't keep him benched if he's the better option. Don't forget, the players see practice every day. They will know who is better, and they will want the guy who gives them the best chance to win and make plays. If Tyrod is playing too conservatively and our playmakers aren't getting the opportunities....there could be some grumbling. Again, I VERY much doubt this happens, as veterans much prefer veteran qb's. I don't see us trading a 3rd rounder for Tyrod only to bench him. He's going to play and probably play pretty well, like he usually does.
The thing to watch is Baker in the preseason. How does he do in the 3rd game? The first 2 are always kind of a mess. The 4th is usually a joke. The 3rd is when teams play their best players for the longest. If Baker looks prepared, competent, and "at ease" during the 3rd game, you will hear the whispers come out. If he then lights up the useless 4th game, the whispers will get louder. If we drafted Darnold, I'd say let him sit basically all year. But we have my man Baker, and Baker is used to taking jobs. My preference is for Baker to sit at least through 10 games, maybe longer, but I can definitely envision a scenario where he plays earlier, possibly from the first game.
My best guess is that Tyrod wins the job, plays pretty well, and Baker plays the last 4-5 games after we're eliminated.
As you have pointed out and added to my thoughts, Baker presents a 2018 season future that there is simply no way to predict. You know, I don't believe the football playbook is all that complicated. Honestly, not being mean but NFL players are not exactly a brilliant bunch. 2 years ago I was at a Browns event through connections with my wife's work. I learned again that 50% of all NFL playbooks are simple translations of Paul Browns playbook...something college kids are exposed to. Then, in every teams playbook there are codes/similarities if you will where perhaps 5 pass plays with slight differences are grouped together. Add to that headphone communication and plays written on the wrist band, and I don't see this as a huge, time consuming obstacle.
I keep hoping for the Dan Marino experience. Off the Bench and BOOM. I think Mayfield is that kind of a guy.
The Cleveland Browns have the hardest hit players in the NFL -
True Dat.
And PoG showed us a video of all the #1 pick QB's in recent history...and how many started week one. I think the difference here is that we knew we were taking a QB #1 overall. AND we traded for an experienced QB to start for us so that our #1 pick QB would NOT play. We have an actual plan.
As you say Ghoolie (won't call you Ghoul if you play nice), Then life happens and all bets are off. Yup, if Baker learns the playbook better than TieRod...if he practices better than TieRod...if he plays better than TieRod. But that's an awful lot of if's for a rookie QB. Kizer started last year, but like I said last year, the bar for him was low. We had inexperienced bums that he had to beat out. The bar is higher this year for Baker.
Yes, we have a trigger fingered owner who will want Baker playing if we're losing. And we have Hue who will, again this year, do anything he can to save his job...including playing Mayfield when he may not be ready.
TieRod has learned an NFL playbook before. TieRod has experienced the speed of the NFL. He's taken snaps under center, called out protections, identified blitzers, called audibles, etc. Baker needs to learn a lot of that.
I hope we win some games so that Baker can come in and take over when he has control of what he's been taught. (I can hope, right?)
I don't have a disagreement with any of this. I do believe that there is a tendency, maybe even wishful thinking every year that finally the Browns have a common sense plan in place for rearing the new QB. I have never believed this to be the case, and hence a lot of guys argue with me, and of course get the fire of Ghoolie. On the surface, it looks good. Seasoned Vet to give the new kid a stay of execution, give the Browns a chance to groom the guy for a year.... learn the nuances, learn the schemes, etc etc etc.
Do you think that's what management is hoping for? A good solid year from Tie Rod and then Baker eases into the scene?
I really don't believe that at all. I believe TieRod is nothing more than an insurance policy, a buffer if you will. Follow with me.
1) If Tie Rod plays well, we winn 6, 7,8 or more games, management wins. They look good, Baker isn't thrown to the wolves.
2) Tie Rod blows, Haslam forces his hand and play Baker. Baker amazes, Jimmy looks great. Baker blows, Jimmy blames it on Tie Rod no holding his end down.
I don't think anyone in management sees any path where Baker does not, at some point in 2018 assume ownership of the team. He has to. You can't have the #1 pick on the bench all year, then Tie Rod going 10 -6, so now, why even bring Baker in, the case could be made. There is a high probability that Tie rod Tarkenton is going to get hurt. I really believe this. I believe he was brought in as a fluffer.
We shall see.
I don't have a disagreement with any of this. I do believe that there is a tendency, maybe even wishful thinking every year that finally the Browns have a common sense plan in place for rearing the new QB. I have never believed this to be the case, and hence a lot of guys argue with me, and of course get the fire of Ghoolie. On the surface, it looks good. Seasoned Vet to give the new kid a stay of execution, give the Browns a chance to groom the guy for a year.... learn the nuances, learn the schemes, etc etc etc.
Do you think that's what management is hoping for? A good solid year from Tie Rod and then Baker eases into the scene?
I really don't believe that at all. I believe TieRod is nothing more than an insurance policy, a buffer if you will. Follow with me.
1) If Tie Rod plays well, we winn 6, 7,8 or more games, management wins. They look good, Baker isn't thrown to the wolves.
2) Tie Rod blows, Haslam forces his hand and play Baker. Baker amazes, Jimmy looks great. Baker blows, Jimmy blames it on Tie Rod no holding his end down.
I don't think anyone in management sees any path where Baker does not, at some point in 2018 assume ownership of the team. He has to. You can't have the #1 pick on the bench all year, then Tie Rod going 10 -6, so now, why even bring Baker in, the case could be made. There is a high probability that Tie rod Tarkenton is going to get hurt. I really believe this. I believe he was brought in as a fluffer.
We shall see.
I really think that's what the Browns are hoping, Taylor plays well, and Baker sits most of the year. It's why they brought in Drew Stanton- to mentor Baker, just as he has for several other top QB like Matt Stafford. It sure wasn't for his passing ability. That (sort of) frees Tyrod to concentrate on the game without having Baker breathing down his neck. I do think the Browns will be improved on offense, we actually have guys there that other teams will have to account for like Gordon, Landry, Njoku, Chubb, and Hyde. Unloading turnover machine Kizer should be worth a win or two at least.
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I don't have a disagreement with any of this. I do believe that there is a tendency, maybe even wishful thinking every year that finally the Browns have a common sense plan in place for rearing the new QB. I have never believed this to be the case, and hence a lot of guys argue with me, and of course get the fire of Ghoolie. On the surface, it looks good. Seasoned Vet to give the new kid a stay of execution, give the Browns a chance to groom the guy for a year.... learn the nuances, learn the schemes, etc etc etc.
Do you think that's what management is hoping for? A good solid year from Tie Rod and then Baker eases into the scene?
I really don't believe that at all. I believe TieRod is nothing more than an insurance policy, a buffer if you will. Follow with me.
1) If Tie Rod plays well, we winn 6, 7,8 or more games, management wins. They look good, Baker isn't thrown to the wolves.
2) Tie Rod blows, Haslam forces his hand and play Baker. Baker amazes, Jimmy looks great. Baker blows, Jimmy blames it on Tie Rod no holding his end down.
I don't think anyone in management sees any path where Baker does not, at some point in 2018 assume ownership of the team. He has to. You can't have the #1 pick on the bench all year, then Tie Rod going 10 -6, so now, why even bring Baker in, the case could be made. There is a high probability that Tie rod Tarkenton is going to get hurt. I really believe this. I believe he was brought in as a fluffer.
We shall see.
I really think that's what the Browns are hoping, Taylor plays well, and Baker sits most of the year. It's why they brought in Drew Stanton- to mentor Baker, just as he has for several other top QB like Matt Stafford. It sure wasn't for his passing ability. That (sort of) frees Tyrod to concentrate on the game without having Baker breathing down his neck. I do think the Browns will be improved on offense, we actually have guys there that other teams will have to account for like Gordon, Landry, Njoku, Chubb, and Hyde. Unloading turnover machine Kizer should be worth a win or two at least.
I really think that's what the Browns are hoping, Taylor plays well, and Baker sits most of the year. It's why they brought in Drew Stanton- to mentor Baker, just as he has for several other top QB like Matt Stafford. It sure wasn't for his passing ability. That (sort of) frees Tyrod to concentrate on the game without having Baker breathing down his neck. I do think the Browns will be improved on offense, we actually have guys there that other teams will have to account for like Gordon, Landry, Njoku, Chubb, and Hyde. Unloading turnover machine Kizer should be worth a win or two at least.
As long as it isn't TieRod injury, or pressure at 0 - 6 that brings Baker in, I am okay. That is my wish; that this time out, Baker is inserted exactly when the coaches are comfortable doing it.
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