Hall of Fame Questions

[Jason J]

@the-gipper said:

Don't look now, but it won't be that long before the Hall of Fame game is played honoring the 2009 inductees Bob Hayes, Randell McDaniel, Bruce Smith, Derrick Thomas, Ralph Wilson, and Rod Woodson. All great, well and good. There will probably be a large Buffalo contingent making it down to Fawcett stadium for that.

My question, however is: Which of the 5 or 6 finalists from last year who did not make it are most deserving of being selected for next years class. Here are the ones who did not make the cut:

Chris Carter

Dermonti Dawson

Richard Dent

Russ Grimm

Claude Humphrey

Cortez Kennedy

Bob Keuchenberg

John Randle

Andre Reed

Shannon Sharpe

Paul Tagliabue

Also, if you know, who are the almost sure fire Hall of Famers who will be on the ballot for the first time this coming year. I don't know the list.

With this group:

RB Emmitt Smith

WR Tim Brown

WR Jerry Rice (assuming that his preseason adventures in 2005 aren’t held against him)

CB Aeneas Williams

All of whom look to make it on their first ballot... except maybe Williams who will likely suffer from the fact that he played nearly all of his brilliant career in Arizona, and didn't arrive on the national scene until he was a shell of his former greatness in 2001... The prospects for those left off in '09 aren't good in 2010. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say that Bob Keuchenberg has waited long enough.

Outside of him, you've got some marginal HOF'ers. Dawson is probably the closest thing to a definite and to a lesser extent, Sharpe. 2010 might be their year. Dent and Reed will be waiting a while. Dent and Carter are going to get in eventually. I don't know if Grimm, Kennedy, Humphery, or Randle ever get in.

I'm not sure Tagilabue counts against the class. As an executive, he can go in anytime.

-jj

[Riffer X]

Zombo said:

Richard Dent, John Randle, Shannon Sharpe and Chris Carter are the most dominant players from that list.

Rice and Smith will go in of course, Tim Brown can wait a year.

If I had to pick four from those guys to make this year I'd say Rice, Smith, Dent and, I hate to say it ... Sharpe.

Zombo

--How did Andre Tippett get in before Richard Dent?

Tippett was a dominant player bro, just on some bad NE teams before the new era so to speak.

What I can't figure out is how Carter isn't a shoe in. I have a feeling he's paying the price a little for being such a nob his first couple of years. Below is a snippet from Wiki and I remember this catch like it was yesterday.

Carter was known for great hands, running precise routes, and for acrobatic leaps. He had remarkable body control and footwork when making catches near the sidelines. At the Citrus Bowl at the end of the 1985 season, Carter caught a ball that quarterback Jim Karsatos was intending to throw away out of bounds as he was being tackled. Karsatos has claimed that catch by Carter was the greatest in the history of college football: "When I finally saw it on film, he was tiptoeing the sidelines and he jumped up and caught the ball left-handed by the point of the football at least a yard out of bounds. Then he somehow levitated back in bounds to get both his feet in bounds. I swear to this day he actually levitated to get back in bounds. When I saw it on film, it just blew me away."

He had the best hands I ever saw and his numbers are ludicrous, especially since his first two years he didn't do much at all.

Carter finished No. 2 behind Jerry Rice in career receptions (1,101) and touchdowns (130) by a receiver. On December 28, 2008 Marvin Harrison of the Indianapolis Colts passed Carter to take the 2nd place position in career receptions. He is one of only 5 players in NFL History with 1,000 or more receptions (1,101). He is the only player to record 120+ receptions in a season twice (1994 & 1995). He also holds the record for most touchdown passes caught by African American passers, 73 (Randall Cunningham, Warren Moon, Daunte Culpepper). He was named to the NFL 1990s All-Decade Team. Carter was one of fifteen finalists for the Pro Football Hall of Fame class of 2008, but was not elected in a surprise to some commentators. He is expected to eventually be inducted. [3]

Check out these stats below on Tippett. I'm a little surprised you don't remember how dominant he was.

Tippett was drafted by the New England Patriots in the 2nd round of the 1982 NFL Draft.

Tippett is a member of the NFL’s 1980s all-decade team and was selected to five Pro Bowls in his career, earning the nod in five straight seasons from 1984–88.

From 1984–85, Tippett recorded the highest two-season sack total by a linebacker in NFL history, totaling 35.0 sacks during the two seasons. His 18.5 sacks in 1984 are the third most by any linebacker in a single season, while his 16.5 sacks in 1985 are tied for the sixth most by any linebacker in NFL history.

Tippett holds the Patriots’ franchise record with 100.0 career sacks. He also owns the top three single-season sack performances in Patriots history (18.5 in 1984, 16.5 in 1985 and 12.5 in 1987). He ranked seventh on the all-time sacks list, and third among linebackers, at the time of his retirement following the 1993 season. Over his career, Tippett recorded 100 sacks in 151 games, an average of 0.662 sacks per game. The mark currently ranks fourth in NFL history among linebackers.

After not recording a sack as a rookie in 1982, Tippett finished either first or second on the team in sacks in each of his final 10 seasons. He led the team in sacks six times and finished second on the team four times. Tippett recorded 30 multiple-sack games in his career and sacked a total of 41 different quarterbacks. Tippett recovered 18 opponents’ fumbles during his career, tying him for first on the Patriots’ all-time list (Steve Nelson). He also forced 17 fumbles in his career.

Tippett was named the AFC’s Linebacker of the Year by the NFL Players Association for three straight seasons from 1985–87. He was voted to the Associated Press All-NFL First-team on two occasions (1985 and 1987) and Second-team on two other occasions (1986 and 1988). He was also named to the NFL Films All-Pro team in 1984.

He was voted the Newspaper Enterprise Association (NEA) co-Defensive Player of the Year (with Raider Howie Long) in 1985. Additionally, he was voted the 1985 UPI AFL-AFC Defensive Player of the Year.

Tippett twice earned AFC Defensive Player of the Week awards. The first in the Patriots 20-13 win over the New York Jets as he stopped the Jets 3 times within the 10 yard line on 10-20-85. Next, he was the AFC Defensive Player of the Week in the Patriots 21-7 win over the Houston Oilers on 10-18-87. In this victory over Houston at the Astrodome, Andre had 3 sacks, defended on a pass play and blocked a field goal attempt that was returned for a touchdown by Raymond Clayborn.

Tippett spent his entire 12-year career with the Patriots and was a member of three playoff teams, including the 1985 AFC Champions.

[edit] Honors

Tippett was selected to the Patriots’ 35th Anniversary Team in 1994 and was selected to the Patriots Team of the Century in 2000. He was inducted into the New England Patriots Hall of Fame in 1999 [7]. Tippett was inducted into the University of Iowa Hall of Fame on September 7, 2007.

In January, 2008, he was voted by a panel of former NFL players and coaches to Pro Football Weekly's All-Time 3-4 defensive team along with Harry Carson, Lawrence Taylor, Randy Gradishar, Howie Long, Lee Roy Selmon, and Curley Culp. [8]

He was named as one of 17 finalists for the Pro Football Hall of Fame’s Class of 2007 and 2008 [9] . As a finalist he joined other modern-era players and two players selected by the Hall of Fame’s Senior Committee in the pool from which the Hall of Fame class was selected.

The Hall of Fame’s 40-member Selection Committee met in Miami on February 3, 2007, to select the Class of 2007. Tippett was not selected for enshrinement, but he was among the top 10 finalists. The now 44-member Selection Committee met in Arizona, the day prior to Super bowl XLII, to vote on the Class of 2008. Just prior, Hall of Fame running back Eric Dickerson said, " "I think it is about time Andre Tippett is in the Hall Of Fame." [10]

He was selected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame for the class of 2008.[11] Tippett will be inducteed into the National Jewish Sports Hall of Fame in April 2009.[12

[ballpeen]

I think Claude Humphrey should get in....he was a great player.

I pulled the following form a old UPI archive....no credit as to who wrote the blurb:

"Humphrey, a three time modern-era finalist for the hall, was the NFL defensive rookie of the year in 1968. He is unofficially credited with 122 career sacks, which wasn't an official statistics until 1982 -- the year after Humphrey retired -- and was selected for six Pro Bowls."

[The Gipper]

@jason-j said:

With this group:

RB Emmitt Smith

WR Tim Brown

WR Jerry Rice (assuming that his preseason adventures in 2005 aren’t held against him)

CB Aeneas Williams

All of whom look to make it on their first ballot... except maybe Williams who will likely suffer from the fact that he played nearly all of his brilliant career in Arizona, and didn't arrive on the national scene until he was a shell of his former greatness in 2001... The prospects for those left off in '09 aren't good in 2010. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say that Bob Keuchenberg has waited long enough.

Outside of him, you've got some marginal HOF'ers. Dawson is probably the closest thing to a definite and to a lesser extent, Sharpe. 2010 might be their year. Dent and Reed will be waiting a while. Dent and Carter are going to get in eventually. I don't know if Grimm, Kennedy, Humphery, or Randle ever get in.

I'm not sure Tagilabue counts against the class. As an executive, he can go in anytime.

-jj

OK Yes, Rice and Emmit Smith are no brainer first time inductees. Personally I believe Carter should go in before Brown or any of those other receivers. Though, if you think about it, if you Hall of Fame Class consisted of all receivers: Rice, Tim Brown, Chris Carter, Andre Reed, Shannon Sharpe, and the odd man out running back Emmit Smith, that would still be a hell of a class!

[The Gipper]

I think if I were choosing, my class of 6 then next year would be:

Jerry Rice

Emmit Smith

Chris Carter

Richard Dent

Russ Grimm

Bob Keuchenberg

[The Gipper]

I am going to make a few posts listing positions and names. The question will be who among these lists do you think is Hall of Fame worthy? I will start with the quarterbacks, since that is the glamor position. Who, if any, among these should be eventually inducted into the HOF?:

Jim Hart

John Brodie

John Hadl

Ken Stabler

Archie Manning

Jack Kemp

Bert Jones

Tobin Rote

Eddie Le Baron

Ken Anderson

Bernie Kosar

Roman Gabriel

Phil Simms

Boomer Esiason

Randall Cunningham

Daryl LaMonica

(or anyone else you may think of)

[The Gipper]

Now, I will do the same for Running backs. Who if any do you believe is Hall of Fame Worthy:

Floyd Little

Jim Nance

Abner Haynes

Cookie Gilchrist

Mercury Morris

Alan Ameche

Tank Younger

Paul Lowe

Freeman McNeil

Curt Warner

James Brooks

Chuck Foreman

Chuck Muncie

Terrel Davis

Herschel Walker

Ricky Waters

Ottis Anderson

Roger Craig

and again, anyone else I missed (Pruitt, Pruitt, Mack, Byner?)

[The Gipper]

Here is a fairly large group of defensive players, any position. Who may be HOF worthy?:

Dick LeBeau

Erich Barnes

Rosey Grier

Chuck Howley

Ken Riley

Alex Karras

Jim Marshall

Randy Gradishar

Kevin Greene

Darren Woodson

Ricky Jackson

Jack Tatum

Steve Atwater

Harry Carson

Harvey Martin

L.C. Greenwood

Curley Culp

Robert Brazile

Maxie Baughn

Tommy Nobis

Lemar Parish

Eddie Meador

Dick Anderson

Jake Scott

Leroy Jordan

[The Gipper]

Here are some receivers. Note if you think HOF worthy:

Otis Taylor

Harold Carmichael

Cliff Branch

Drew Pearson

Harold Jackson

Mac Speedie

Lionel Taylor

Billy Howton

Art Powell

Boyd Dowler

any others (aside from the Rice's, Carters, Reeds, Sharpes, etc. that we have not already mentioned?

[The Gipper]

Last group. These are a few linemen and special teamers. HOF?:

Jerry Kramer

Mick Tinglehoff

Winston Hill

Glenn Pressnel

Ray Guy

Bill Bates

Steve Tasker

any other OL or special teamers you can think of

[ballpeen]

@the-gipper said:

Here is a fairly large group of defensive players, any position. Who may be HOF worthy?:

Dick LeBeau Y

Erich Barnes Y

Rosey Grier Y

Chuck Howley Y

Ken Riley

Alex Karras

Jim Marshall Y

Randy Gradishar

Kevin Greene

Darren Woodson

Ricky Jackson

Jack Tatum Y

Steve Atwater

Harry Carson

Harvey Martin

L.C. Greenwood

Curley Culp Y

Robert Brazile

Maxie Baughn

Tommy Nobis

Lemar Parish

Eddie Meador

Dick Anderson Y

Jake Scott Y

Leroy Jordan

Pretty good list of defenders who don't make the grade.

[Riffer X]

@the-gipper said:

Here is a fairly large group of defensive players, any position. Who may be HOF worthy?:

Dick LeBeau

Erich Barnes

Rosey Grier

Chuck Howley

Ken Riley

Alex Karras

Jim Marshall

Randy Gradishar

Kevin Greene

Darren Woodson

Ricky Jackson

Jack Tatum

Steve Atwater

Harry Carson

Harvey Martin

L.C. Greenwood

Curley Culp

Robert Brazile

Maxie Baughn

Tommy Nobis

Lemar Parish

Eddie Meador

Dick Anderson

Jake Scott

Leroy Jordan

It's a crime Gradishar is not in. Others: Tatum, Riley, Martin, Marshall, Greene and Woodson

[Riffer X]

@the-gipper said:

Here are some receivers. Note if you think HOF worthy:

Otis Taylor

Harold Carmichael

Cliff Branch

Drew Pearson

Harold Jackson

Mac Speedie

Lionel Taylor

Billy Howton

Art Powell

Boyd Dowler

any others (aside from the Rice's, Carters, Reeds, Sharpes, etc. that we have not already mentioned?

None

[The Gipper]

@the-gipper said:

I am going to make a few posts listing positions and names. The question will be who among these lists do you think is Hall of Fame worthy? I will start with the quarterbacks, since that is the glamor position. Who, if any, among these should be eventually inducted into the HOF?:

Jim Hart

John Brodie

John Hadl

Ken Stabler

Archie Manning

Jack Kemp

Bert Jones

Tobin Rote

Eddie Le Baron

Ken Anderson

Bernie Kosar

Roman Gabriel

Phil Simms

Boomer Esiason

Randall Cunningham

Daryl LaMonica

(or anyone else you may think of)

[b]I never did make my own reply to these lists. There is a Veteran's committee and I believe that one day they will induct John Hadl and Ken Anderson. Plus Gabriel could come close. Hadl at one time was thisclose to being inducted but didn't make it. Cunningham also has a chance because of his unique abilities.[/b]

[The Gipper]

@the-gipper said:

Now, I will do the same for Running backs. Who if any do you believe is Hall of Fame Worthy:

Floyd Little

Jim Nance

Abner Haynes

Cookie Gilchrist

Mercury Morris

Alan Ameche

Tank Younger

Paul Lowe

Freeman McNeil

Curt Warner

James Brooks

Chuck Foreman

Chuck Muncie

Terrel Davis

Herschel Walker

Ricky Waters

Ottis Anderson

Roger Craig

and again, anyone else I missed (Pruitt, Pruitt, Mack, Byner?)

Alan Ameche, Ottis Anderson, Cookie Gilchrist

Terrel Davis will be hurt by the fact that NUMEROUS Bronco RBs after him performed about as well as he did, thus the voters have the inkling that perhaps it was the system and not the talent of the individual player that was key

[The Gipper]

@the-gipper said:

Here is a fairly large group of defensive players, any position. Who may be HOF worthy?:

Dick LeBeau

Erich Barnes

Rosey Grier

Chuck Howley

Ken Riley

Alex Karras

Jim Marshall

Randy Gradishar

Kevin Greene

Darren Woodson

Ricky Jackson

Jack Tatum

Steve Atwater

Harry Carson

Harvey Martin

L.C. Greenwood

Curley Culp

Robert Brazile

Maxie Baughn

Tommy Nobis

Lemar Parish

Eddie Meador

Dick Anderson

Jake Scott

Leroy Jordan

LeBeau, Tatum, Karras, Marshall

LeBeau really was one of the best DBs of all time in my opinion. But he may (and probably should) make the HOF as the first assistant coach/coordinator to get in. As far as I am concerned HE, and not Tomlin or Cowher is the reason for the success of the Steelers over the last 8-10 years.

Jack Tatum is not in the HOF solely because of his hit on Stingley....and the fact that he was unrepentent about playing the way he was taught to play and the way the NFL wanted him to play.

Karras is not in solely because of his gambling scandal. Yet, that didn't keep Hornung out...though he did have to wait many more years than he probably should have to be selected.

Marshall is not in because of his silly wrong way run.....or more likely because Alan Page and Carl Eller of that line are already in. The HOF doesn't like to put too many people from a single unit in. (And that may also be why Jordan and Greenwood are not in)

[The Gipper]

@the-gipper said:

Here are some receivers. Note if you think HOF worthy:

Otis Taylor

Harold Carmichael

Cliff Branch

Drew Pearson

Harold Jackson

Mac Speedie

Lionel Taylor

Billy Howton

Art Powell

Boyd Dowler

any others (aside from the Rice's, Carters, Reeds, Sharpes, etc. that we have not already mentioned?

[b]Billy Howton should be in, though not much is ever said about him. Howton broke Don Hutson career receiving record and held it for at least about a decade before Charley Taylor came along.

I alway thought Otis Taylor belonged.

Drew Pearson, while good was I believe overrated simply because he played for the Cowboys and because he did make a few clutch catches in big games.[/b]

[The Gipper]

@the-gipper said:

Last group. These are a few linemen and special teamers. HOF?:

Jerry Kramer

Mick Tinglehoff

Winston Hill

Glenn Pressnel

Ray Guy

Bill Bates

Steve Tasker

any other OL or special teamers you can think of

Kramer, Tinglehoff, Guy, and Tasker

and maybe Pressnell (he was a real old timer going back to the 30s)