OUR "Hard Knocks" Thread
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Here's a little something for the table:
My Take: Don't stop believing ... Life goes on for Tony.
Ya, at some point he will bite it, but they aren't going to show it you, the series ends and Tony lives on in our minds...
Zombo said:
Here's a little something for the table:
My Take: Don't stop believing ... Life goes on for Tony.
Ya, at some point he will bite it, but they aren't going to show it you, the series ends and Tony lives on in our minds...
After the disastrous response from the loyal viewing public the creator,writer, producers realized and admitted they blew it!
Worst finale in TV history.
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This and articles like it kind of sum it up....... if you care to read it........ https://deadline.com/2007/06/thats-what-we-were-waiting-for-angry-fans-crash-hbo-website-2519/
MONDAY UPDATE: *The Sopranos creator David Chase, in France to avoid “all the Monday morning quarterbacking” gave an interviewabout the show’s ending. “I have no interest in explaining, defending, reinterpreting, or adding to what is there,” he says of the final scene. “No one was trying to be audacious, honest to god. We did what we thought we had to do. No one was trying to blow people’s minds, or thinking, ‘Wow, this’ll (tick) them off.’ People get the impression that you’re trying to (mess) with them and it’s not true. You’re trying to entertain them.” Chase agreed in advance to give one exclusive post-show interview to New Jersey’s Star-Ledger, which is printing it for Tuesday. After that, he intends to stay silent.*
SUNDAY PM: The line to cancel HBO starts here. What a ridiculously disappointing end lacking in creativity and filled with cowardice to The Sopranos saga. But if you’re one of those who found it perversely interesting, then don’t bother to read on. Even if David Chase, who wrote and directed the final episode, was demonstrating the existential and endless loop of Tony’s life or the moments before the hit that causes his death, it still robbed the audience of visual closure.
I am well aware of the internet chatter how the last episode all refers back to the first episode, as Chase himself said in an interview. To me, this is just a new version of listening to vinyl backwards and seeing if the words make sense! And if it were done to segue into a movie, that crass commercialism shouldn’t be tolerated. (MONDAY UPDATE: *I just checked with Chase’s manager and Sopranos‘ executive producer Brad Grey, who tells me that Chase is living in France and “just taking time off. There is absolutely no discussion of the movie.”*) There’s even buzz that the realending will only be available on the series’ final DVD. Either way, it was terrible. Apparently, my extreme reaction was typical of many series’ fans: they crashed HBO’s website for a time tonight trying to register their outrage. HBO could suffer a wave of cancellations as a result. (Already, the pay channel’s replacement series like John from Cincinnati are getting panned.) Chase clearly didn’t give a damn about his fans. Instead, he crapped in their faces. This is why America hates Hollywood........
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Biggest thing for me... the Process guy... was catching barely a glimpse of our player evaluation process. Other than a little Dorsey/Hue huddle in the beginning and a little of Dorsey at a white board a little later... nada.
Then next it's Hue entering a room with his assembled staff to inform them of the cuts? Nary a hint of their involvement in the decision process.
Now all this could be editing by HBO/NFL Films, but it is more likely just how it is... we have a top down, autocratic organization and those can only be as good as the guy at the top.
Call Eliot Wolf "The Turk"
as a assistant GM i had no issue with Wolf making the calls..Orch seemed to be just outside the building? maybe no faces, but the leading names were there..Dorsey,Wolf sit as the kings. as for the queens would be 3 VP's of player personnel Berry,Highsmith,Kovash.Direct College scouting=Steve Malin,Glenn Cook..Direct pro scouts=Dan Saganey,Jim Noel..i've googled each,not bad but still passing Dorsey testing..Would not surprise me at all, if Scot McCloughan running a scouting agency that we hired in Feb. replaces Berry or Depo at some point?
Call Eliot Wolf "The Turk"
as a assistant GM i had no issue with Wolf making the calls..Orch seemed to be just outside the building? maybe no faces, but the leading names were there..Dorsey,Wolf sit as the kings. as for the queens would be 3 VP's of player personnel Berry,Highsmith,Kovash.Direct College scouting=Steve Malin,Glenn Cook..Direct pro scouts=Dan Saganey,Jim Noel..i've googled each,not bad but still passing Dorsey testing..Would not surprise me at all, if Scot McCloughan running a scouting agency that we hired in Feb. replaces Berry or Depo at some point?
Hah, except "somebody" you know who- thinks Hue totally runs the show, is answerable to no one, and has put a magic spell on the Haslams making him fire proof.
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Zombo said:
It was hard watching the cuts. I'm sure HBO wanted one of their highlighted bubble guys to make it, but it's not just reality TV ... it's real.
I hope Orchard gets back on an NFL roster.
I think we'll see Brokeback and Cajuste in the spring league trying to get better ... I'll watch them.
On to the Steelers...
Zombo
--I have a feeling Todd Haley's offense is going to surprise some people.
Orchard deserves another shot as he obviously wasn't coached up by the Browns when he was switched from OLD to DE. Why do I say that? Myles Garrett teaching him the basics of his stance highlighted in this episode. Gregg Williams calling Ward stupid but couldn't pay attention to an OLB he switched positions.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Biggest thing for me... the Process guy... was catching barely a glimpse of our player evaluation process. Other than a little Dorsey/Hue huddle in the beginning and a little of Dorsey at a white board a little later... nada.
Then next it's Hue entering a room with his assembled staff to inform them of the cuts? Nary a hint of their involvement in the decision process.
Now all this could be editing by HBO/NFL Films, but it is more likely just how it is... we have a top down, autocratic organization and those can only be as good as the guy at the top.
Call Eliot Wolf "The Turk"
as a assistant GM i had no issue with Wolf making the calls..Orch seemed to be just outside the building? maybe no faces, but the leading names were there..Dorsey,Wolf sit as the kings. as for the queens would be 3 VP's of player personnel Berry,Highsmith,Kovash.Direct College scouting=Steve Malin,Glenn Cook..Direct pro scouts=Dan Saganey,Jim Noel..i've googled each,not bad but still passing Dorsey testing..Would not surprise me at all, if Scot McCloughan running a scouting agency that we hired in Feb. replaces Berry or Depo at some point?
Call Eliot Wolf "The Turk"
as a assistant GM i had no issue with Wolf making the calls..Orch seemed to be just outside the building? maybe no faces, but the leading names were there..Dorsey,Wolf sit as the kings. as for the queens would be 3 VP's of player personnel Berry,Highsmith,Kovash.Direct College scouting=Steve Malin,Glenn Cook..Direct pro scouts=Dan Saganey,Jim Noel..i've googled each,not bad but still passing Dorsey testing..Would not surprise me at all, if Scot McCloughan running a scouting agency that we hired in Feb. replaces Berry or Depo at some point?
So we cut a guy who was in during his off-day?
Problem was not with Wolf being the bad-news guy... it was making players drive to the facility. The team should have all been in the house.
Any interaction beyond Dorsey and Hue on the roster decisions is speculation. There was no video evidence.
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Call Eliot Wolf "The Turk"
as a assistant GM i had no issue with Wolf making the calls..Orch seemed to be just outside the building? maybe no faces, but the leading names were there..Dorsey,Wolf sit as the kings. as for the queens would be 3 VP's of player personnel Berry,Highsmith,Kovash.Direct College scouting=Steve Malin,Glenn Cook..Direct pro scouts=Dan Saganey,Jim Noel..i've googled each,not bad but still passing Dorsey testing..Would not surprise me at all, if Scot McCloughan running a scouting agency that we hired in Feb. replaces Berry or Depo at some point?
So we cut a guy who was in during his off-day?
Problem was not with Wolf being the bad-news guy... it was making players drive to the facility. The team should have all been in the house.
Any interaction beyond Dorsey and Hue on the roster decisions is speculation. There was no video evidence.
So we cut a guy who was in during his off-day?
Problem was not with Wolf being the bad-news guy... it was making players drive to the facility. The team should have all been in the house.
Any interaction beyond Dorsey and Hue on the roster decisions is speculation. There was no video evidence.
Except for Wolf talking to Cajuste whom he knew in GB.
Never mind. I misread your post. You said "on roster decisions", which is different than showing bad news interactions.
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Zombo said:
That's why they all got the call to see the Wolf.
a/k/a "Mr Unfortunately"... as in, "Unfortunately we need you to come in today."
Every other HK team I can remember had the guys in the building pumping iron, getting treatment, etc... and we "called them in"... literally. Did not sit well with me.
a/k/a "Mr Unfortunately"... as in, "Unfortunately we need you to come in today."
Every other HK team I can remember had the guys in the building pumping iron, getting treatment, etc... and we "called them in"... literally. Did not sit well with me.
I think this has more to do with the newish cut-down rules. In previous years the cuts were mid training camp. This has removed some of the unexpected mid-training camp cuts that made for great tv, but a little harsh on the human side.
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a/k/a "Mr Unfortunately"... as in, "Unfortunately we need you to come in today."
Every other HK team I can remember had the guys in the building pumping iron, getting treatment, etc... and we "called them in"... literally. Did not sit well with me.
I think this has more to do with the newish cut-down rules. In previous years the cuts were mid training camp. This has removed some of the unexpected mid-training camp cuts that made for great tv, but a little harsh on the human side.
I think this has more to do with the newish cut-down rules. In previous years the cuts were mid training camp. This has removed some of the unexpected mid-training camp cuts that made for great tv, but a little harsh on the human side.
Point taken...
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I cant speak to the various experiences of the people on the board but I personally have had to let people go. There is no good way or great thing to say to do it best or make it better. Often people stick to a script both because of that as well as to insure they don't set up potential law suits on anything said during the meeting.
I found the episode hard to watch seeing its impact on players dreams and their families. It is a necessary thing but disturbing to watch none the less.
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I cant speak to the various experiences of the people on the board but I personally have had to let people go. There is no good way or great thing to say to do it best or make it better. Often people stick to a script both because of that as well as to insure they don't set up potential law suits on anything said during the meeting.
I found the episode hard to watch seeing its impact on players dreams and their families. It is a necessary thing but disturbing to watch none the less.
I cant speak to the various experiences of the people on the board but I personally have had to let people go. There is no good way or great thing to say to do it best or make it better. Often people stick to a script both because of that as well as to insure they don't set up potential law suits on anything set during the meeting.
I found the episode hard to watch seeing its impact on players dreams and their families. It is a necessary thing but disturbing to watch none the less.
Especially when you are more aware of how they and their families put their heart and soul into becoming pro players for the Browns. What more could any of us ask of our players? Thank you.
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havent seen it yet, how did nassib take it? didnt he get snapped up by someone anyway?
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I hated the Sopranos finale for years but once you actually understand it, it’s brilliant. I think the reason David Chase hasn’t said what happened is because it’s so obvious he’s mad at everyone for not getting it. There’s a pattern in the final scene that keeps showing different POVs, including Tony’s. We always get Tony’s POV as someone’s walking in. As soon as the suspected murderer walked in, it was time in the pattern to get Tony’s POV again. We got black instead. He died.
Except that I think it was merely his daughter that came in, to join the family for dinner. The series ended with that family just having a nice dinner together, and that's it. That's my opinion, and I am sticking to it.
Except that I think it was merely his daughter that came in, to join the family for dinner. The series ended with that family just having a nice dinner together, and that's it. That's my opinion, and I am sticking to it.
Then that would be incredibly lame.
Soprano got wacked by the dude who went into the head before the screen went black. Deal with it.
That’s what I said.
Zombo said:
Here's a little something for the table:
My Take: Don't stop believing ... Life goes on for Tony.
Ya, at some point he will bite it, but they aren't going to show it you, the series ends and Tony lives on in our minds...
How do you refute what I posted?
After the disastrous response from the loyal viewing public the creator,writer, producers realized and admitted they blew it!
Worst finale in TV history.
Lol no they didn’t (either blow it or admit they did).
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Except that I think it was merely his daughter that came in, to join the family for dinner. The series ended with that family just having a nice dinner together, and that's it. That's my opinion, and I am sticking to it.
Then that would be incredibly lame.
Soprano got wacked by the dude who went into the head before the screen went black. Deal with it.
That’s what I said.
Zombo said:
Here's a little something for the table:
My Take: Don't stop believing ... Life goes on for Tony.
Ya, at some point he will bite it, but they aren't going to show it you, the series ends and Tony lives on in our minds...
How do you refute what I posted?
After the disastrous response from the loyal viewing public the creator,writer, producers realized and admitted they blew it!
Worst finale in TV history.
Lol no they didn’t (either blow it or admit they did).
How do you refute what I posted?
Yes, they follow each shot of Tony, with what Tony sees.
Every time the bell rings he looks up, and then they show you what he sees.
But because they end it there doesn't mean he's dead. Doesn't mean he sees Meadow. It means it's over.
Zombo
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How do you refute what I posted?
Yes, they follow each shot of Tony, with what Tony sees.
Every time the bell rings he looks up, and then they show you what he sees.
But because they end it there doesn't mean he's dead. Doesn't mean he sees Meadow. It means it's over.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Yes, they follow each shot of Tony, with what Tony sees.
Every time the bell rings he looks up, and then they show you what he sees.
But because they end it there doesn't mean he's dead. Doesn't mean he sees Meadow. It means it's over.
Zombo
What I absolutely loved about the ending scene was that for nearly 7 seasons of 'The Sopranos' you watched Tony Soprano... But in the last few minutes, they were able to make you feel like what it's like to be Tony Soprano. I remember watching it live and being so tense because you didn't know what was going to happen, who the people were in the diner, who might be coming after him that I was literally screaming at my TV FOR MEADOW TO PARK YOUR MOTHERShmuckING CAR. Brilliant writing.
I think he died. At least twice in the last season there were references to what people thought happens when you die, and Tony responded at least one of the times with: "Nothing happens. It just goes black."
I actually got to eat in that diner in the exact booth that the Sopranos ate at for the final scene. (My cousin lives 15 minutes away, in West Orange, NJ) Sadly, James Gandolfini died a little over a month later.
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https://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/the-sopranos-definitive-explanation-of-the-end/
I expect the link only has "TONI SOPRANO DIES" in big white letters over a black backgroune.
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As an expert in the art of "healthy paranoia", my words for a description of a survival skill I developed that kept me alive on multiple occasions in Vietnam, I agree with both war and diehard that the guy who eyed him a couple of times and then went into the head was they guy who kills him in the end. And the screen going black fits perfectly with what Tony says about what happens when you die.
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Anyone notice how hue kept saying how tuff it was for him? Lol you still have a job azzwipe...
Kept saying the same crap to each player.
Anyone notice how hue kept saying how tuff it was for him? Lol you still have a job azzwipe...
Kept saying the same crap to each player.
Throughout the 5 Episodes... were you able to detect what Hue's job is?
I cant speak to the various experiences of the people on the board but I personally have had to let people go. There is no good way or great thing to say to do it best or make it better. Often people stick to a script both because of that as well as to insure they don't set up potential law suits on anything said during the meeting.
I found the episode hard to watch seeing its impact on players dreams and their families. It is a necessary thing but disturbing to watch none the less.
As have I... some for acute issues; some for chronic issues. We saw both in HK with Kendricks the only acute example.
The acute terminations were always easy. As in: 1. You did this. 2.) This was unacceptable. 3.) Therefore you are gone. These were the "ripping the bandaid off" firings. Normally the employee was too embarrassed to have done what they did to react in any way.
The termination of chronic under-performers were always hard because they had been on an "improvement program" into which both the individual and I had invested time. These were the "tearful" farewells.
Once I "inherited" (a/k/a he was passed to me) an under-performing ChemE who I quickly noticed could not do a mass balance... the most basic of ChemE activities. After discussions with former Supervisors, who suddenly revealed their "longtime concerns with his skill set" after years of average, or better, reviews. I put the ChemE on a program which in this case was essentially a crash course in ChemE basics. At the end of the program came a tearful termination.
Years later I ran into the now former ChemE. He'd moved into technical recruiting and was doing quite well. He thanked me. Turned out that hiding his secret had been tearing him up and now he was happy in his work.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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