Peppers
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What a fair and measured response. Thank you. I don't agree with all of it, but at least it isn't the typical "CUT PEPPERS HE'S TERRIBLE WHAT A BUST!" nonsense we see far too often on here. Like we have a section of the fanbase waiting and rooting for him to make the tiniest mistakes so they can pounce. Again, I will say that PFF rated him as our highest rated defender against the Saints. This idea that, because one TD was given up in front of him that may or may not have been his fault, he's now the worst player ever, is laughable.
Peppers actually played a lot less snaps in this game than Kindred. They had been rotating, but he was getting more. I'm not sure if Williams thought Kindred was a better matchup, Williams essentially benched Peppers, or if Peppers was hurt. I think he only had 30 something snaps.
Returning though... I'm not sure what's going on. He was a very electric and creative returner in college. He added weight to play safety in the NFL and lost his 4.3 speed, but he was still in the 4.4 rang at the combine. It has been pretty uninspiring back there. But at this point, with all of the ST's issues we're having, I'm not sure how much blocking he;s getting either. It is something that's hard to see from the broadcast angle, but it feels like something we aren't doing that good of a job with. On punts I get it because he's sure handed, but if they want to try a WR or something on the kick returns it might make sense. If I remember correctly Peppers wasn't our main kick returner last year.
Just caught up watching Red Zone with Donovan and Dieken. They're echoing the majority opinion around here that at the very least Peppers is seriously underperforming his draft status. It shouldn't take 1.25 years for the guy to be making a major impact somewhere.
What was the pre-draft commentary we were seeing? "Jack of all Trades, master of None"? He has to seriously step up his game, or he's going to be going the way of Barkevious Mingo.
Just caught up watching Red Zone with Donovan and Dieken. They're echoing the majority opinion around here that at the very least Peppers is seriously underperforming his draft status. It shouldn't take 1.25 years for the guy to be making a major impact somewhere.
What was the pre-draft commentary we were seeing? "Jack of all Trades, master of None"? He has to seriously step up his game, or he's going to be going the way of Barkevious Mingo.
Barely better than Justin Gilbert at this pointBarely better than Justin Gilbert at this point
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Talk amonst yourselves and resolve this, please.
Blocking on Kickoff returns has been pretty much shelved. 7-man wedges were outlawed years ago. This season 3-man wedges were. So now there's only one-on-one. Not easy on the retreat to your return man.
And if there's no blocking, then returners do tend to hesitate.
Thru 4 weeks there has been one KO return TD... 102 yd by Miami. AS for the other teams longest returns...
Next longest was 94 yd... then 90... then 53, 6 in the 40s, 9 in the 30s.... remaining 13 teams longest is <30.
Our longest is 28 yd... good enough to tie us for 22nd with CHI and IND.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/sort/yardsPerKickReturn
So what is your suggestion after watching the returns to the 15 yard line this past weekend?
So what is your suggestion after watching the returns to the 15 yard line this past weekend?
Touchbacks?
In Nero's thoughts thread I posted that the only thing I like less than WRs returing Kick offs are DBs returning kickoffs. There's simply too much contact... as Callaway will attest to.
RBs need to be back there, IMO. You have to pretty much break the first wave on your own with the blocking rules as they now are and that takes RB strength. Duke is my first choice, but Chubb showed enough speed to warrant consideration.
Punts? That's where I like WRs... like Callaway. Much more of a broken field situation where speed and agility are paramount. I also can see Landry back there in special situations.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
What a fair and measured response. Thank you. I don't agree with all of it, but at least it isn't the typical "CUT PEPPERS HE'S TERRIBLE WHAT A BUST!" nonsense we see far too often on here. Like we have a section of the fanbase waiting and rooting for him to make the tiniest mistakes so they can pounce. Again, I will say that PFF rated him as our highest rated defender against the Saints. This idea that, because one TD was given up in front of him that may or may not have been his fault, he's now the worst player ever, is laughable.
Peppers actually played a lot less snaps in this game than Kindred. They had been rotating, but he was getting more. I'm not sure if Williams thought Kindred was a better matchup, Williams essentially benched Peppers, or if Peppers was hurt. I think he only had 30 something snaps.
Returning though... I'm not sure what's going on. He was a very electric and creative returner in college. He added weight to play safety in the NFL and lost his 4.3 speed, but he was still in the 4.4 rang at the combine. It has been pretty uninspiring back there. But at this point, with all of the ST's issues we're having, I'm not sure how much blocking he;s getting either. It is something that's hard to see from the broadcast angle, but it feels like something we aren't doing that good of a job with. On punts I get it because he's sure handed, but if they want to try a WR or something on the kick returns it might make sense. If I remember correctly Peppers wasn't our main kick returner last year.
Just caught up watching Red Zone with Donovan and Dieken. They're echoing the majority opinion around here that at the very least Peppers is seriously underperforming his draft status. It shouldn't take 1.25 years for the guy to be making a major impact somewhere.
What was the pre-draft commentary we were seeing? "Jack of all Trades, master of None"? He has to seriously step up his game, or he's going to be going the way of Barkevious Mingo.
Just caught up watching Red Zone with Donovan and Dieken. They're echoing the majority opinion around here that at the very least Peppers is seriously underperforming his draft status. It shouldn't take 1.25 years for the guy to be making a major impact somewhere.
What was the pre-draft commentary we were seeing? "Jack of all Trades, master of None"? He has to seriously step up his game, or he's going to be going the way of Barkevious Mingo.
Any time you play multiple positions it is going to slow down your development at one. Last year was almost entirely as a deep safety, with a few week injury in the middle. He has made an impact, it was obvious the first three weeks. Again, he was our highest rated defender week 2.
There seems to be a divide between people that just look for flashy stats and overemphasize the mistakes, and people that have a better understanding of what he's asked to do in Williams D. Very similar to the divide we saw when evaluating him as a draft prospect and seeing the difference between those that did and didn't understand how he was being used in our D at Michigan
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
Just caught up watching Red Zone with Donovan and Dieken. They're echoing the majority opinion around here that at the very least Peppers is seriously underperforming his draft status. It shouldn't take 1.25 years for the guy to be making a major impact somewhere.
What was the pre-draft commentary we were seeing? "Jack of all Trades, master of None"? He has to seriously step up his game, or he's going to be going the way of Barkevious Mingo.
Any time you play multiple positions it is going to slow down your development at one. Last year was almost entirely as a deep safety, with a few week injury in the middle. He has made an impact, it was obvious the first three weeks. Again, he was our highest rated defender week 2.
There seems to be a divide between people that just look for flashy stats and overemphasize the mistakes, and people that have a better understanding of what he's asked to do in Williams D. Very similar to the divide we saw when evaluating him as a draft prospect and seeing the difference between those that did and didn't understand how he was being used in our D at Michigan
Any time you play multiple positions it is going to slow down your development at one. Last year was almost entirely as a deep safety, with a few week injury in the middle. He has made an impact, it was obvious the first three weeks. Again, he was our highest rated defender week 2.
There seems to be a divide between people that just look for flashy stats and overemphasize the mistakes, and people that have a better understanding of what he's asked to do in Williams D. Very similar to the divide we saw when evaluating him as a draft prospect and seeing the difference between those that did and didn't understand how he was being used in our D at Michigan
Yeah, we saw what he was doing at Michigan- but please get real- he's not showing anywhere close to that impact with the Browns.
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Just caught up watching Red Zone with Donovan and Dieken. They're echoing the majority opinion around here that at the very least Peppers is seriously underperforming his draft status. It shouldn't take 1.25 years for the guy to be making a major impact somewhere.
What was the pre-draft commentary we were seeing? "Jack of all Trades, master of None"? He has to seriously step up his game, or he's going to be going the way of Barkevious Mingo.
Any time you play multiple positions it is going to slow down your development at one. Last year was almost entirely as a deep safety, with a few week injury in the middle. He has made an impact, it was obvious the first three weeks. Again, he was our highest rated defender week 2.
There seems to be a divide between people that just look for flashy stats and overemphasize the mistakes, and people that have a better understanding of what he's asked to do in Williams D. Very similar to the divide we saw when evaluating him as a draft prospect and seeing the difference between those that did and didn't understand how he was being used in our D at Michigan
Any time you play multiple positions it is going to slow down your development at one. Last year was almost entirely as a deep safety, with a few week injury in the middle. He has made an impact, it was obvious the first three weeks. Again, he was our highest rated defender week 2.
There seems to be a divide between people that just look for flashy stats and overemphasize the mistakes, and people that have a better understanding of what he's asked to do in Williams D. Very similar to the divide we saw when evaluating him as a draft prospect and seeing the difference between those that did and didn't understand how he was being used in our D at Michigan
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all teams suffer from this periodically throughout the season. Seasoned all star vets and future hof'ers have complained about the TNF turn arounds since they started. Theres a concept in sports physiology called specific damage...ive heard powerlifters give seminars on it. Any minor dmg taken during the saints game was compounded 4 days later against the jets....so 10 days was not enough. Is the team utrerly falling apart? no, they can still get out on the field...but u saw guys on both sides of the ball going down with cramps and pulls. Calloway had to pull up on that long pass and then hobbled off the field.......its pretty clear the guys are still beat up.
Saying 10 days was enough time to recover from 3 games in 11 days is spoken like someone who's never played the sport. The sport is too punishing for that kind of workload if ur expecting max output from ur players.
Boo fucking hoo.... play the game and stop making excuses for the defense not being able to hold an 8 point lead with under two minutes to play. As I've already pointed out to you, they haven't been on the field all that long, it was just another excuse by you with no facts to back it up. The offense put 42 points on the board and the defense couldn't make a stop or a play when needed.
Boo Shmucking hoo.... play the game and stop making excuses for the defense not being able to hold an 8 point lead with under two minutes to play. As I've already pointed out to you, they haven't been on the field all that long, it was just another excuse by you with no facts to back it up. The offense put 42 points on the board and the defense couldn't make a stop or a play when needed.
Not to take sides but I think it was a TEAM loss in every way possible. The Special Teams looked like they were being coached up by Tommy Chong on an acid trip.
While I adored scoring 42 points - the 0-3 Raiders were willing to give us way more if we didn't drop 8 passes (one for a pick 6) and fumble away a snap from Center. The offense also had countless 2nd half 3 and outs that had our defense the most gas'd I've seen them this year. In spite of that, the defense made a HUGE play causing Carr to fumble and recovering what should have been an uncontested TD if not for the Zebras contesting it. Do I wish the defense would have just made 1 more play? Absolutely! The offense didn't move the ball in OT either right? Heading into that game, the defense was #1 in turnover differential by a country mile and it wasn't by accident.
Here's a link showing Oakland enjoyed a massive advantage in the 2nd half time of possession battle (after Cleveland's 1st drive of the 2nd half)
https://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2018093009/2018/REG4/browns@raiders
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Jordy was HIS responsibility on that play and he wasnt even CLOSE.
His instincts were such Sheet that he reacted not one second too late but 2 full seconds too late.
We saw last series his butt get cut down like he was a pee wee player and he couldnt fill the gap on a long run
After a turnover he is stuck in damn mud while trying to close on jordy
Unacceptable
May as well just play 10 on 11
His instincts were such Sheet that he reacted not one second too late but 2 full seconds too late.
Taco what did you ever do with your scouting report that said Nick Chubb was slow and had no burst at all? The guy had 3 carries for 105 yards with only the goal line stopping 2 of his runs...
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His instincts were such Sheet that he reacted not one second too late but 2 full seconds too late.
Taco what did you ever do with your scouting report that said Nick Chubb was slow and had no burst at all? The guy had 3 carries for 105 yards with only the goal line stopping 2 of his runs...
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Chubb is much faster than chili peppers.
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Pretty decent interview/article with Mr. Peppers. Poor guy can’t even go into CVS without being haranged by disgruntled Browns’ fans.
Seems confident he’ll turn it around though. Guess we’ll see.
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I saw that yesterday and was wondering when it would get posted. Thank you for having that take on the article as opposed to bitching about Peppers for "complaining" or some nonsense.
He seems to know he needs to do better. The whole ST unit. And he thinks they'll all get there.
Harassing the guy in public is going overboard. Everything he said was 100% correct and this fanbase seems to turn on players really quickly. I'm also positive a lot of his encounters included a "Shmuck Michigan!" too. Maybe it's just a vocal minority.
Either way, I hope it all works out. Let's get more 3 safety sets on D now that Mitchell is out.
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
Pretty decent interview/article with Mr. Peppers. Poor guy can’t even go into CVS without being haranged by disgruntled Browns’ fans.
Seems confident he’ll turn it around though. Guess we’ll see.
Pretty decent interview/article with Mr. Peppers. Poor guy can’t even go into CVS without being haranged by disgruntled Browns’ fans.
Seems confident he’ll turn it around though. Guess we’ll see.
thats a bad fukking look for browns fan base. Horrible look. And we wonder sometimes when college prospects talk sht about cleveland in order to.not get drafted. I get that other fan bases prob do similiar sht....but then again they're fans of successful organizations in cities players desire more. Here in ckeveland we cant affird to be coksuckers to anybody until the're gone
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Come to Cleveland, if you suck we’ll keep quiet because we want you to feel welcome. ? Been a lot of players and coaches who deserved better from fans but didn’t get it and now the tune is going to change.
In virtually every job that deals with customer service if you do a poor job you expect some negativity. I guarantee most if not everyone here has bitched at a drive fast food worker, delivery driver, nurse, doctor, dentists, DMV employee etc for perceived incompetence and they aren’t playing a sport or making millions
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last i checked "getting fries with that" wasnt a terribly complex team oriented endeavor. But yeah i can def see how sraring down 11 top level athletes running right you with one singular goal in mind is akin to connecting me with ur supervisor.?
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its fukking disgraceful to give any player sht that ISNT a problem child and has done whats been asked of him. Utter disgrace. Did people harass josh gordon? The guy that actually fukked us over for multople years?
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I saw that yesterday and was wondering when it would get posted. Thank you for having that take on the article as opposed to bitching about Peppers for "complaining" or some nonsense.
He seems to know he needs to do better. The whole ST unit. And he thinks they'll all get there.
Harassing the guy in public is going overboard. Everything he said was 100% correct and this fanbase seems to turn on players really quickly. I'm also positive a lot of his encounters included a "Shmuck Michigan!" too. Maybe it's just a vocal minority.
Either way, I hope it all works out. Let's get more 3 safety sets on D now that Mitchell is out.
I saw that yesterday and was wondering when it would get posted. Thank you for having that take on the article as opposed to bitching about Peppers for "complaining" or some nonsense.
He seems to know he needs to do better. The whole ST unit. And he thinks they'll all get there.
Harassing the guy in public is going overboard. Everything he said was 100% correct and this fanbase seems to turn on players really quickly. I'm also positive a lot of his encounters included a "Shmuck Michigan!" too. Maybe it's just a vocal minority.
Either way, I hope it all works out. Let's get more 3 safety sets on D now that Mitchell is out.
This fan base turns on players when they are doing a terrible job......as do ALL fan bases. Cleveland is really a cupcake compared to many other places. He complains about treatment by the media....but what would happen to him in NYC, LA, Chicago, Philly..,,just about anywhere? He would get even worse from the fans/media in those markets, for sure.
Peppers has control over everything, by the way. All he has to do is his job. Has he had a lot of help in the return game? Certainly not. This ST coach seems to be a disaster because there is no kick coverage or punt coverage or blocking on KOR or PRs.....but, while he hasn't gotten much help....he has not give much either.
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its fukking disgraceful to give any player sht that ISNT a problem child and has done whats been asked of him. Utter disgrace. Did people harass josh gordon? The guy that actually fukked us over for multople years?
its fukking disgraceful to give any player sht that ISNT a problem child and has done whats been asked of him. Utter disgrace. Did people harass josh gordon? The guy that actually fukked us over for multople years?
What I ask of Peppers is to return some kicks sometimes that gives this team good field position. From my perspective he has NOT done what has been asked of him.
Do you think he has?
(again, certainly not all the blame can be placed on him for his poor performance....but he shares some of it)
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I saw that yesterday and was wondering when it would get posted. Thank you for having that take on the article as opposed to bitching about Peppers for "complaining" or some nonsense.
He seems to know he needs to do better. The whole ST unit. And he thinks they'll all get there.
Harassing the guy in public is going overboard. Everything he said was 100% correct and this fanbase seems to turn on players really quickly. I'm also positive a lot of his encounters included a "Shmuck Michigan!" too. Maybe it's just a vocal minority.
Either way, I hope it all works out. Let's get more 3 safety sets on D now that Mitchell is out.
This fan base turns on players when they are doing a terrible job......as do ALL fan bases. Cleveland is really a cupcake compared to many other places. He complains about treatment by the media....but what would happen to him in NYC, LA, Chicago, Philly..,,just about anywhere? He would get even worse from the fans/media in those markets, for sure.
Peppers has control over everything, by the way. All he has to do is his job. Has he had a lot of help in the return game? Certainly not. This ST coach seems to be a disaster because there is no kick coverage or punt coverage or blocking on KOR or PRs.....but, while he hasn't gotten much help....he has not give much either.
This fan base turns on players when they are doing a terrible job......as do ALL fan bases.
how very apologist of you. harassing players is never ok...harassing anyone isn't ok. it says more about how childish this fanbase is than anything else. the impression i get is every player must be elite on every play depite the fact there are also pros on the other side.
i used to come here to talk football...but this fanbase has largely turned into a bunch of whiny, pessimistic children who compete with each other as to whom can use the most hyperbole. its insufferable, pathetic, and not at all indicative of an intelligent and rational fanbase.
just because "fan" came from fanatic doesn't give everyone an excuse to act like a dipshit. players see these kinds of articles, then only consider coming to the land to collect a paycheck. you reap what you sow. so let those knee jerk, hyperbolic reactions flow....just reinforces the idea that this fanbase is one of the worst in pro sports. im glad to have grow up in pittsburgh, otherwise i'd have turned out like a normal browns fan.
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its fukking disgraceful to give any player sht that ISNT a problem child and has done whats been asked of him. Utter disgrace. Did people harass josh gordon? The guy that actually fukked us over for multople years?
What I ask of Peppers is to return some kicks sometimes that gives this team good field position. From my perspective he has NOT done what has been asked of him.
Do you think he has?
(again, certainly not all the blame can be placed on him for his poor performance....but he shares some of it)
What I ask of Peppers is to return some kicks sometimes that gives this team good field position. From my perspective he has NOT done what has been asked of him.
Do you think he has?
(again, certainly not all the blame can be placed on him for his poor performance....but he shares some of it)
He takes care of the rock, which is important.
Would you rather nervously field punts with Travis Benjamin?
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