A Case For Hue
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I mean, I think the discipline has been somewhat better, no? At least in terms of penalties, right? I don't have the numbers ON ME, but I don't remember penalties being a real killer against Oakland. I don't have any way to quantify this, but I have this feeling at the end of almost every game that we're going to choke, and that the other team is going to do what it takes. Basically, the same thing that Terrell Suggs said. Funny thing is, I didn't feel that way against the Jets once we had the lead. I wasn't scared of them going down the field AT ALL. But with Derek Carr? Yeah, that was over.
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One item in favor of Hue: Desmond Harrison. He's good - 84.9 last game in passpro, 68.1 in run support.
Also let's don't get too excited about Avery every down.. to call him a liability in pass coverage is an understatement.
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Btw, I'm not sure Zane Gonzalez is ALL on Dorsey.
Sashi drafted him, Jones coached him said "he's good to go", Hugh said OK, and Dorsey said OK.
It's a total organizational failure that this injured headcase kicker was sent out to win our first two games.
Z
Zombo said:
Btw, I'm not sure Zane Gonzalez is ALL on Dorsey.
Sashi drafted him, Jones coached him said "he's good to go", Hugh said OK, and Dorsey said OK.
It's a total organizational failure that this injured headcase kicker was sent out to win our first two games.
Z
I distinctly remember on Hard knocks someone yelling
Nice job ya fockin kicker!!
Hahaha
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I mean, I think the discipline has been somewhat better, no? At least in terms of penalties, right? I don't have the numbers ON ME, but I don't remember penalties being a real killer against Oakland. I don't have any way to quantify this, but I have this feeling at the end of almost every game that we're going to choke, and that the other team is going to do what it takes. Basically, the same thing that Terrell Suggs said. Funny thing is, I didn't feel that way against the Jets once we had the lead. I wasn't scared of them going down the field AT ALL. But with Derek Carr? Yeah, that was over.
I mean, I think the discipline has been somewhat better, no? At least in terms of penalties, right? I don't have the numbers ON ME, but I don't remember penalties being a real killer against Oakland. I don't have any way to quantify this, but I have this feeling at the end of almost every game that we're going to choke, and that the other team is going to do what it takes. Basically, the same thing that Terrell Suggs said. Funny thing is, I didn't feel that way against the Jets once we had the lead. I wasn't scared of them going down the field AT ALL. But with Derek Carr? Yeah, that was over.
https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties-player.html?tm=8&yr=2018 feel free to look around site. nflpenalties.com(unsecure) is also a breakdown site that shows declined or offsetting & ST's..How many would we call against coaching? Here's my count..Offense///false start=4/holding=5/ill.formation or motion=6/ill. contact(pick)=3...Defense/// holding=4/offsides 3..ST///block above waist=5/hold=1
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This is when I knew Hue had to go: Oct 23rd 2016 - we're 0-6, losing in the game, with 1:10 left we punt from their 43 yard line. We each have 2 TO's left. And we had not really been able to stop their offense. *** The Bengals came out and ran the ball up the gutt. And they all got up slowly and meandered towards the huddle. I was like, "Great! They're gonna run out the clock. But nope! ! Hue called TO !!! So when they ran it up the gutt and got a 1st down, they decided, heck, why don't we try and score? Maybe he'll call his last TO for us along the way.
Britton Colquitt punts 28 yards, fair catch by Alex Erickson 10 14 0.400 0.220 2 1:03 1 10 CIN 15 Giovani Bernard right guard for 5 yards (tackle by Christian Kirksey) 10 14 -0.220 0.080 2 0:58 1 10 CIN 15 Timeout #2 by Cleveland Browns 10 14 0.000 0.000 2 0:58 2 5 CIN 20 Giovani Bernard right guard for 6 yards (tackle by Xavier Cooper) 10 14 0.080 0.670 2 0:47 2 5 CIN 20 Timeout #2 by Cincinnati Bengals 10 14 0.000 0.000 2 0:47 1 10 CIN 26 Andy Dalton pass complete short middle to Tyler Eifert for 9 yards (tackle by Tracy Howard) 10 14 0.670 1.350 2 0:26 2 1 CIN 35 Andy Dalton pass complete short right to A.J. Green for 16 yards (tackle by Briean Boddy-Calhoun) 10 14 1.350 2.320 2 0:20 1 10 CLE 49 Andy Dalton sacked by Emmanuel Ogbah for -6 yards 10 14 2.320 0.970 2 0:12 1 10 CLE 49 Timeout #3 by Cincinnati Bengals 10 14 0.000 0.000 2 0:12 2 16 CIN 45 Andy Dalton pass complete short right to Giovani Bernard for 7 yards 10 14 0.970 1.220 2 0:07 3 9 CLE 48 Andy Dalton pass complete deep middle to A.J. Green for 48 yards, touchdown 10 20 1.220 7.000 2 0:07 CLE 48 Mike Nugent kicks extra point good BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
My only problem with Hue is that we're 1-9-1 in games decided by 3 points or less. Some of that HAS to be coaching, right? I'm in the camp of "Keep Hue No Matter What", so I'm not saying to get rid of him, but Jesus. You think you'd at least get LUCKY more than that, right?
Wrong.
I can easily make the argument that Hue didn't cost us a win in MOST of those games. I mean, God forbid we have a good kicker. God forbid we have a defense that stops people before their inevitable game-winning drive. This goes back FAR beyond Hue Jackson. I can think of a ton of games where we simply didn't make the play to win the game. It's the same story, regardless of our coach. You remember Brandon Weeden's first game? He played ATROCIOUS, and it was week 1 against the Eagles, in Cleveland. We were still somehow in position to win the game, and our linebacker dropped the easiest game-clinching interception you'll ever see. Ever. Next play? I think it was 4th down...Vick throws an easy score to win.
That's what we do. And we need to stop it. I just don't see how.
My only problem with Hue is that we're 1-9-1 in games decided by 3 points or less. Some of that HAS to be coaching, right? I'm in the camp of "Keep Hue No Matter What", so I'm not saying to get rid of him, but Jesus. You think you'd at least get LUCKY more than that, right?
Wrong.
I can easily make the argument that Hue didn't cost us a win in MOST of those games. I mean, God forbid we have a good kicker. God forbid we have a defense that stops people before their inevitable game-winning drive. This goes back FAR beyond Hue Jackson. I can think of a ton of games where we simply didn't make the play to win the game. It's the same story, regardless of our coach. You remember Brandon Weeden's first game? He played ATROCIOUS, and it was week 1 against the Eagles, in Cleveland. We were still somehow in position to win the game, and our linebacker dropped the easiest game-clinching interception you'll ever see. Ever. Next play? I think it was 4th down...Vick throws an easy score to win.
That's what we do. And we need to stop it. I just don't see how.
As a different take on that imagine what it took to get within 3 points of any team with our garbage roster the last 2 years
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No team was worse against the spread than the Browns in 2016 and 2017.
There seems to be this narrative that during the 1-31 stretch the Browns lost a ton of close games, but the above stat says that it isn't true.
In those 32 games, how many times do we guess the Browns were favored? Maybe once or twice? So basically, the Browns were picked to lose almost every game, and because they were the worst against the spread, that means they were consistently worse than predicted.
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My only problem with Hue is that we're 1-9-1 in games decided by 3 points or less. Some of that HAS to be coaching, right? I'm in the camp of "Keep Hue No Matter What", so I'm not saying to get rid of him, but Jesus. You think you'd at least get LUCKY more than that, right?
Wrong.
I can easily make the argument that Hue didn't cost us a win in MOST of those games. I mean, God forbid we have a good kicker. God forbid we have a defense that stops people before their inevitable game-winning drive. This goes back FAR beyond Hue Jackson. I can think of a ton of games where we simply didn't make the play to win the game. It's the same story, regardless of our coach. You remember Brandon Weeden's first game? He played ATROCIOUS, and it was week 1 against the Eagles, in Cleveland. We were still somehow in position to win the game, and our linebacker dropped the easiest game-clinching interception you'll ever see. Ever. Next play? I think it was 4th down...Vick throws an easy score to win.
That's what we do. And we need to stop it. I just don't see how.
As a different take on that imagine what it took to get within 3 points of any team with our garbage roster the last 2 years
As a different take on that imagine what it took to get within 3 points of any team with our garbage roster the last 2 years
And I think this is actually a brilliant point and definitely worth mentioning. I really do. In fact, I've brought up a few times that Hue's players never quit and that's impressive considering just how terrible we were. We fought until the end of every miserable season under Hue Jackson.
But the lack of close game finishes are what will ultimately be Hue's demise, whether it's fair or not. This is why the Oakland game hurt so very much. We had a chance to stack wins for the first time since forever. We had a chance for our defense to make two consecutive game-clinching stops in a row. We had a chance to prove WE WEREN'T the "same old Browns"....but we didn't. This is why this loss hurts more than just about any other. It was a chance to slay so many demons, yet the demons proved once again they are still in command.
What this team needs is a "signature win". It's all fine and dandy to be a scrappy young team that's not a pushover anymore, but to really be taken seriously, the Browns need a signature victory. I'm not going to lie, this match-up against the Ravens could very well be our most difficult task all season, and we obviously have to play them again. When you really look at the numbers for each team, this figures to be an "auto loss" for the Browns, and I've basically said as much. But....BUT....
Sometimes in rivalry games you have to throw the numbers out the window. There are times when it doesn't matter who the better team is, or who is "supposed to win". Again, this why you play the game, right? As many have mentioned, just ask the Vikings when they played the Bills.
That being said, the Ravens aren't going to take the Browns for granted. They know full well how tough we can be, regardless of our record. We've fought them tooth and nail, down to the wire even in our miserable last two years. A part of me says, "Isn't it about time for us to have a magical game? Isn't it about time we have a game where everything goes right? Where we make that last play? Where the ref doesn't blow the ball dead and we run it back for a TD? Where we actually hit the wide open Callaway for the TD? The game where we're praying for somebody to finish the game, and somebody actually DOES IT?"
Man, I really hope so.
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This is when I knew Hue had to go: Oct 23rd 2016 - we're 0-6, losing in the game, with 1:10 left we punt from their 43 yard line. We each have 2 TO's left. And we had not really been able to stop their offense. *** The Bengals came out and ran the ball up the gutt. And they all got up slowly and meandered towards the huddle. I was like, "Great! They're gonna run out the clock. But nope! ! Hue called TO !!! So when they ran it up the gutt and got a 1st down, they decided, heck, why don't we try and score? Maybe he'll call his last TO for us along the way.
Britton Colquitt punts 28 yards, fair catch by Alex Erickson 10 14 0.400 0.220 2 1:03 1 10 CIN 15 Giovani Bernard right guard for 5 yards (tackle by Christian Kirksey) 10 14 -0.220 0.080 2 0:58 1 10 CIN 15 Timeout #2 by Cleveland Browns 10 14 0.000 0.000 2 0:58 2 5 CIN 20 Giovani Bernard right guard for 6 yards (tackle by Xavier Cooper) 10 14 0.080 0.670 2 0:47 2 5 CIN 20 Timeout #2 by Cincinnati Bengals 10 14 0.000 0.000 2 0:47 1 10 CIN 26 Andy Dalton pass complete short middle to Tyler Eifert for 9 yards (tackle by Tracy Howard) 10 14 0.670 1.350 2 0:26 2 1 CIN 35 Andy Dalton pass complete short right to A.J. Green for 16 yards (tackle by Briean Boddy-Calhoun) 10 14 1.350 2.320 2 0:20 1 10 CLE 49 Andy Dalton sacked by Emmanuel Ogbah for -6 yards 10 14 2.320 0.970 2 0:12 1 10 CLE 49 Timeout #3 by Cincinnati Bengals 10 14 0.000 0.000 2 0:12 2 16 CIN 45 Andy Dalton pass complete short right to Giovani Bernard for 7 yards 10 14 0.970 1.220 2 0:07 3 9 CLE 48 Andy Dalton pass complete deep middle to A.J. Green for 48 yards, touchdown 10 20 1.220 7.000 2 0:07 CLE 48 Mike Nugent kicks extra point good This is when I knew Hue had to go: Oct 23rd 2016 - we're 0-6, losing in the game, with 1:10 left we punt from their 43 yard line. We each have 2 TO's left. And we had not really been able to stop their offense. *** The Bengals came out and ran the ball up the gutt. And they all got up slowly and meandered towards the huddle. I was like, "Great! They're gonna run out the clock. But nope! ! Hue called TO !!! So when they ran it up the gutt and got a 1st down, they decided, heck, why don't we try and score? Maybe he'll call his last TO for us along the way.
Britton Colquitt punts 28 yards, fair catch by Alex Erickson 10 14 0.400 0.220 2 1:03 1 10 CIN 15 Giovani Bernard right guard for 5 yards (tackle by Christian Kirksey) 10 14 -0.220 0.080 2 0:58 1 10 CIN 15 Timeout #2 by Cleveland Browns 10 14 0.000 0.000 2 0:58 2 5 CIN 20 Giovani Bernard right guard for 6 yards (tackle by Xavier Cooper) 10 14 0.080 0.670 2 0:47 2 5 CIN 20 Timeout #2 by Cincinnati Bengals 10 14 0.000 0.000 2 0:47 1 10 CIN 26 Andy Dalton pass complete short middle to Tyler Eifert for 9 yards (tackle by Tracy Howard) 10 14 0.670 1.350 2 0:26 2 1 CIN 35 Andy Dalton pass complete short right to A.J. Green for 16 yards (tackle by Briean Boddy-Calhoun) 10 14 1.350 2.320 2 0:20 1 10 CLE 49 Andy Dalton sacked by Emmanuel Ogbah for -6 yards 10 14 2.320 0.970 2 0:12 1 10 CLE 49 Timeout #3 by Cincinnati Bengals 10 14 0.000 0.000 2 0:12 2 16 CIN 45 Andy Dalton pass complete short right to Giovani Bernard for 7 yards 10 14 0.970 1.220 2 0:07 3 9 CLE 48 Andy Dalton pass complete deep middle to A.J. Green for 48 yards, touchdown 10 20 1.220 7.000 2 0:07 CLE 48 Mike Nugent kicks extra point good So it was Hue's fault that we gave up a 48 yd TD pass with 7 seconds to go in the half?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
This is when I knew Hue had to go: Oct 23rd 2016 - we're 0-6, losing in the game, with 1:10 left we punt from their 43 yard line. We each have 2 TO's left. And we had not really been able to stop their offense. *** The Bengals came out and ran the ball up the gutt. And they all got up slowly and meandered towards the huddle. I was like, "Great! They're gonna run out the clock. But nope! ! Hue called TO !!! So when they ran it up the gutt and got a 1st down, they decided, heck, why don't we try and score? Maybe he'll call his last TO for us along the way.
Britton Colquitt punts 28 yards, fair catch by Alex Erickson 10 14 0.400 0.220 2 1:03 1 10 CIN 15 Giovani Bernard right guard for 5 yards (tackle by Christian Kirksey) 10 14 -0.220 0.080 2 0:58 1 10 CIN 15 Timeout #2 by Cleveland Browns 10 14 0.000 0.000 2 0:58 2 5 CIN 20 Giovani Bernard right guard for 6 yards (tackle by Xavier Cooper) 10 14 0.080 0.670 2 0:47 2 5 CIN 20 Timeout #2 by Cincinnati Bengals 10 14 0.000 0.000 2 0:47 1 10 CIN 26 Andy Dalton pass complete short middle to Tyler Eifert for 9 yards (tackle by Tracy Howard) 10 14 0.670 1.350 2 0:26 2 1 CIN 35 Andy Dalton pass complete short right to A.J. Green for 16 yards (tackle by Briean Boddy-Calhoun) 10 14 1.350 2.320 2 0:20 1 10 CLE 49 Andy Dalton sacked by Emmanuel Ogbah for -6 yards 10 14 2.320 0.970 2 0:12 1 10 CLE 49 Timeout #3 by Cincinnati Bengals 10 14 0.000 0.000 2 0:12 2 16 CIN 45 Andy Dalton pass complete short right to Giovani Bernard for 7 yards 10 14 0.970 1.220 2 0:07 3 9 CLE 48 Andy Dalton pass complete deep middle to A.J. Green for 48 yards, touchdown 10 20 1.220 7.000 2 0:07 CLE 48 Mike Nugent kicks extra point good So it was Hue's fault that we gave up a 48 yd TD pass with 7 seconds to go in the half?
So it was Hue's fault that we gave up a 48 yd TD pass with 7 seconds to go in the half?
Yes, in fact it was because that play would never have even happened had he NOT called a TO. It was stupid clock management.
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This is when I knew Hue had to go: Oct 23rd 2016 - we're 0-6, losing in the game, with 1:10 left we punt from their 43 yard line. We each have 2 TO's left. And we had not really been able to stop their offense. *** The Bengals came out and ran the ball up the gutt. And they all got up slowly and meandered towards the huddle. I was like, "Great! They're gonna run out the clock. But nope! ! Hue called TO !!! So when they ran it up the gutt and got a 1st down, they decided, heck, why don't we try and score? Maybe he'll call his last TO for us along the way.
Britton Colquitt punts 28 yards, fair catch by Alex Erickson 10 14 0.400 0.220 2 1:03 1 10 CIN 15 Giovani Bernard right guard for 5 yards (tackle by Christian Kirksey) 10 14 -0.220 0.080 2 0:58 1 10 CIN 15 Timeout #2 by Cleveland Browns 10 14 0.000 0.000 2 0:58 2 5 CIN 20 Giovani Bernard right guard for 6 yards (tackle by Xavier Cooper) 10 14 0.080 0.670 2 0:47 2 5 CIN 20 Timeout #2 by Cincinnati Bengals 10 14 0.000 0.000 2 0:47 1 10 CIN 26 Andy Dalton pass complete short middle to Tyler Eifert for 9 yards (tackle by Tracy Howard) 10 14 0.670 1.350 2 0:26 2 1 CIN 35 Andy Dalton pass complete short right to A.J. Green for 16 yards (tackle by Briean Boddy-Calhoun) 10 14 1.350 2.320 2 0:20 1 10 CLE 49 Andy Dalton sacked by Emmanuel Ogbah for -6 yards 10 14 2.320 0.970 2 0:12 1 10 CLE 49 Timeout #3 by Cincinnati Bengals 10 14 0.000 0.000 2 0:12 2 16 CIN 45 Andy Dalton pass complete short right to Giovani Bernard for 7 yards 10 14 0.970 1.220 2 0:07 3 9 CLE 48 Andy Dalton pass complete deep middle to A.J. Green for 48 yards, touchdown 10 20 1.220 7.000 2 0:07 CLE 48 Mike Nugent kicks extra point good So it was Hue's fault that we gave up a 48 yd TD pass with 7 seconds to go in the half?
So it was Hue's fault that we gave up a 48 yd TD pass with 7 seconds to go in the half?
That was the football Gods whacking Hue's pee-pee for letting it get to that point.
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I REALLY should have gone over the happenings PRIOR to us punting to them with 1:10 remaining.
With 2:00 left in the half Col. Hogan scrambles for 7 yards to the Bengals 38 bringing up 4th and 3. (remember, we're 0-6 and losing yet again) - Hue can't figure out what he wants to do...he's talking to the QB...talking into outer space....he decides to let the clock run out to take away as many seconds as possible from the Bengals. (he HAD 2 TO's - he lost one earlier in a challenge).
The above is the 'backdrop' that make's Hue's calling TO for the Bengals so mind boggling!
(he took a delay of game penalty to milk the clock...punted...and then called TO after their 1st play)
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Yes, in fact it was because that play would never have even happened had he NOT called a TO. It was stupid clock management.
Sorry, Ag... but that's just fukking ignorant.
Look at the full play-by-play up to that point. We were in the game. We called timeout to preserve time for our Offense who had come alive in the 2nd Qtr to close the score to 14-10. WE had CIN pinned deep in their own territtory. WE were looking to at least get a FG before the half. We had the momentum...
This place is getting so hindsight happy it's ridiculous...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Yes, in fact it was because that play would never have even happened had he NOT called a TO. It was stupid clock management.
Sorry, Ag... but that's just fukking ignorant.
Look at the full play-by-play up to that point. We were in the game. We called timeout to preserve time for our Offense who had come alive in the 2nd Qtr to close the score to 14-10. WE had CIN pinned deep in their own territtory. WE were looking to at least get a FG before the half. We had the momentum...
This place is getting so hindsight happy it's ridiculous...
Sorry, Ag... but that's just fukking ignorant.
Look at the full play-by-play up to that point. We were in the game. We called timeout to preserve time for our Offense who had come alive in the 2nd Qtr to close the score to 14-10. WE had CIN pinned deep in their own territtory. WE were looking to at least get a FG before the half. We had the momentum...
This place is getting so hindsight happy it's ridiculous...
Hey, that's my specialty. Don't knock it!?
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Sorry, Ag... but that's just fukking ignorant.
Look at the full play-by-play up to that point. We were in the game. We called timeout to preserve time for our Offense who had come alive in the 2nd Qtr to close the score to 14-10. WE had CIN pinned deep in their own territtory. WE were looking to at least get a FG before the half. We had the momentum...
This place is getting so hindsight happy it's ridiculous...
Hey, that's my specialty. Don't knock it!?
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I think we all just need a sacrificial lamb after those frustrating finishes in three of four games.
I want special teams coach Amos Jone's head on a stick.
Z
Zombo said:
I think we all just need a sacrificial lamb after those frustrating finishes in three of four games.
I want special teams coach Amos Jone's head on a stick.
Z
Like in that movie Wolf Creek?
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Fester speaks ...
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He's soooo awkward.
The best thing about these speaches is that he gives balls to the Haslams and Dorsey, let's the GM break the huddle today...
That's the losingest coach in the NFL for you.
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