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  3. Long term, was keeping Hue for an extra year a smart move for Browns?

Long term, was keeping Hue for an extra year a smart move for Browns?

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  • T TexasAg1969

    Zombo said:

    Well if we don't win six games, every goddamn player on the team needs to be cut. 

    Hue hasn't dropped a pass, missed a tackle, shanked a Fg or had a penalty called on him yet.

    These MotherShmuckers need to win NOW, Quit letting them hide behind the coaching and hold these motherShmucking players accountable, they are the ones who are losing.

    It's the Shmucking NFL. You have an NFL coaching staff. You have NFL facilities. Be better than the other guys.

    Coaches get fired because they are coaching losers.

    It's up to the players how many games we win. And six out of 16 ain't enough.

    If we lose to Shmucking Pittsburgh I would shoot the poorest performing starter in the kneecap after the game in front of his teammates.

    Z

    I would venture to say that even Saban would do a hellofalot better with these players than the ones he had last time he tried the pros. Really good coaching can change a lot of things. Hue is not a really good coach. Sad but true.

    Zombo Z
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    Z Zombo wrote on last edited by
    #16

    @texasag1969 said:

    I would venture to say that even Saban would do a hellofalot better with these players than the ones he had last time he tried the pros. Really good coaching can change a lot of things. Hue is not a really good coach. Sad but true.

    Join the list of pussies making excuses for the players.

    This is our most important regular season game in 30 years and they better fucking win it.

    Haven't won the season series with Pittsburgh since 1989.

    These Motherfuckers need to up their game! I'm sure the veteran coaching staff will be ready. The fucking players need to perform.

    Z

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    • Mark OM Mark O

      @jiggins7919 said:

      Me too, I thought you meant next year. 

      I’m in 100% agreement that Hue should not be fired this year.  Mainly because I’m struggling to think of any time when firing a coach mid-year as EVER worked out well.  I have one example floating around in my mind, but I can’t quite identify it.  There are very few potential upsides to firing Hue this year, but the one that most clearly comes to mind is if we fire Hue and promote Haley to coach, then we could theoretically have our next head coach for the next few years and not have to mess with the whole coaching carousel next year.  Here’s how it works:

      We fire Hue Jackson….say…right before the bye.  Todd Haley gets promoted to “interim head coach”, and for the last 6 or 7 games we play better.  We have fewer penalties.  We WIN the close games at the end.  We actually score a freaking TOUCHDOWN in the first quarter.  If our team pulled together under Todd Haley and we finish pretty strong, I could see us keeping him.  And how nice would THAT be?  Keeping the same system, the same players, and our rookie QB doesn’t have to learn an entirely new language and plays.  The players have familiarity with each other, they grow stronger, and instead of learning new stuff, they fine-tune what they already know.  We could keep Gregg Williams, too. 

      Hey, I know it’s a long shot, but it’s possible.  More likely John Dorsey will completely clean house, we’ll be stuck searching for a new coach, we’ll have to bring in players to fit a 3-4 defense (because you know the Browns have to alternate every few years), we’ll trade away our big money players because we’ll need to “rebuild”, and we’ll be told to have patience. 

      The Rams didn't exactly clean house and rebuild.  They brought in new coaches to work with what was perceived as a roster that had talent but that talent wasn't being utilized properly.   Goff was considered a bust.  Gurley shouldn't have been drafted that high.  The team was going nowhere.  That was the perception when Jeff Fisher was the coach and they won 4 games.  New young head coach, bring in Wade Phillips to coach the defense and have a good draft and a couple of new FA's and look what happened last year.  The Rams went to the playoffs without "rebuilding" the roster.   This year they were in a postion to bring in big time free agents and it looks like its worked out pretty well so far.  

      A new coach doesn't necessarily rebuilding and having to go through losing seasons again while the team "rebuilds".   It would seem to me that there is talent on this team and the decision behind bringing in a new coach is if ownership feels that the current coaching staff isn't getting the best of the talent that is on the field.

      If a change is made, the Rams should be the model for how its done and it doesn't have to be completely torn down again. 

      jiggins7919 jiggins7919J Conversation Starter Dedicated Very Popular Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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      jiggins7919J jiggins7919 wrote on last edited by
      #17

      @mark-o said:

      The Rams didn't exactly clean house and rebuild.  They brought in new coaches to work with what was perceived as a roster that had talent but that talent wasn't being utilized properly.   Goff was considered a bust.  Gurley shouldn't have been drafted that high.  The team was going nowhere.  That was the perception when Jeff Fisher was the coach and they won 4 games.  New young head coach, bring in Wade Phillips to coach the defense and have a good draft and a couple of new FA's and look what happened last year.  The Rams went to the playoffs without "rebuilding" the roster.   This year they were in a postion to bring in big time free agents and it looks like its worked out pretty well so far.  

      A new coach doesn't necessarily rebuilding and having to go through losing seasons again while the team "rebuilds".   It would seem to me that there is talent on this team and the decision behind bringing in a new coach is if ownership feels that the current coaching staff isn't getting the best of the talent that is on the field.

      If a change is made, the Rams should be the model for how its done and it doesn't have to be completely torn down again. 

      It's funny you said the Rams, that's the model I keep hoping and praying we follow.  It's downright bizarre to see Goff as a rookie to the talent he is now.  He literally looked like the worst #1 pick in history as a rookie, and with new coaches....BOOM.  

      Perhaps you're right and we can accomplish something similar.  Man, that'd be so fun.  We're an organization that's been ridiculed (and rightly so) for our persistent turnover.  Keeping Hue Jackson made so much sense, it really did.  And the crazy/frustrating thing is, we could so easily be sitting pretty.  Can you imagine the difference in dialogue and fan perception if we just pulled out the Oakland and Bucs game?  Heck, we'd be the feel good story of the year.  But when the chips are down, when we absolutely HAVE to have a play, our team repeatedly falls short.  We had no business losing that Oakland game.  That's a BAD team right there.  Bucs aren't much better.  We manage 2 freaking points (by our dang DEFENSE) in the first half against the worst defense in the universe?  With a new DC?  

      You guys remember last year, when a popular sentiment was, "Man, if we just had COMPETENT QB play, we'd have a .500 record!"  Well, right now we have "competent" QB play, and you see it's not enough.  Even with leading the league in turnovers, we can't pull games out because we simply don't score in the first quarter, or second quarter for that matter.  I've stuck up for Hue Jackson long enough.  I just didn't want to envision yet ANOTHER coaching search.  I really thought we finally had "a real coach".  

      You guys want the GOOD news?  Make sure you finish chewing your food because I don't want anyone to choke, but the Cleveland Browns will be by far the most attractive head coaching vacancy in the league.  Ok, so clean off your monitors, I think some of you got some spittle on the screen.  Bare with me.  The new coach will have his QB under center.  His dominant edge rusher.  A young core of players at vital positions.  Lots of salary cap room.  Most of his draft picks, except the 3rd rounder (I think).  A somewhat declining division. And an owner who wants to win and win NOW.  I mean it...I really believe that for ONCE...the Cleveland Browns are going to be the hot destination for whichever "must have coach" is out there.  

      Dutch OvenD 1 Reply Last reply
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      • Z Zombo

        @clevfan4life said:

        if we win 6 games y'all know hue's staying right?

        Well if we don't win six games, every goddamn player on the team needs to be cut. 

        Hue hasn't dropped a pass, missed a tackle, shanked a Fg or had a penalty called on him yet.

        These Motherfuckers need to win NOW, Quit letting them hide behind the coaching and hold these motherfucking players accountable, they are the ones who are losing.

        It's the fucking NFL. You have an NFL coaching staff. You have NFL facilities. Be better than the other guys.

        Coaches get fired because they are coaching losers.

        It's up to the players how many games we win. And six out of 16 ain't enough.

        If we lose to fucking Pittsburgh I would shoot the poorest performing starter in the kneecap after the game in front of his teammates.

        Z

        The Gipper The GipperT In Memoriam Very Popular
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        The GipperT The Gipper wrote on last edited by
        #18

        Zombo said:

        If we lose to Shmucking Pittsburgh I would shoot the poorest performing starter in the kneecap after the game in front of his teammates.

        Z

        If only.

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        • flyingfooldoug flyingfooldougF One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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          flyingfooldougF flyingfooldoug wrote on last edited by
          #19

          I will point out that our last six head coaches were axed after a loss to the stealers

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          • C Clevfan4life

            if we win 6 games y'all know hue's staying right?

            Ghoolie GhoolieG One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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            GhoolieG Ghoolie wrote on last edited by
            #20

            @clevfan4life said:

            if we win 6 games y'all know hue's staying right?

            Hue is staying, no matter that he does the rest of the season.   If he is fired, it won't be until the 2020-21 season. 

            The Cleveland Browns have the hardest hit players in the NFL
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            • Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven

              Now, I'm sure some of you have had a stroke, or possibly a series of strokes, after reading the title to this thread.  

              Consider this though: If you were John Dorsey, trying to right the ship of one of the most poorly-run franchises in pro sports, what would be an easier sell to potential head coaching candidates? 

              Taking over a QB-less team who is coming off a record 1-31 stretch after the 2017 season, or taking off a competitive, young team with an established Baker Mayfield after the 2018 season?  In a way, letting Hue take the bullets this season long term might be the best thing for the Browns, even if it sucks for most of us this season. 

              nickers nickersN Conversation Starter Dedicated Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done Very Popular
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              nickersN nickers wrote on last edited by
              #21

              @dutch-oven said:

              Now, I'm sure some of you have had a stroke, or possibly a series of strokes, after reading the title to this thread.  

              Consider this though: If you were John Dorsey, trying to right the ship of one of the most poorly-run franchises in pro sports, what would be an easier sell to potential head coaching candidates? 

              Taking over a QB-less team who is coming off a record 1-31 stretch after the 2017 season, or taking off a competitive, young team with an established Baker Mayfield after the 2018 season?  In a way, letting Hue take the bullets this season long term might be the best thing for the Browns, even if it sucks for most of us this season. 

              I see Hue Jackson as more of like our version of Jeff Fisher.. Well liked around the league... Just not a very good Head Coach... I really don't think he'll be back next season..

              Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~
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              • Clevfan4life C Banned Very Popular
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                C Clevfan4life wrote on last edited by
                #22

                zombo's not wrong....some of these players need put on blast esoecially for the goat fukking penalties.

                Z 1 Reply Last reply
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                • C Clevfan4life

                  zombo's not wrong....some of these players need put on blast esoecially for the goat fukking penalties.

                  Zombo Z
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                  Z Zombo wrote on last edited by
                  #23

                  @clevfan4life said:

                  zombo's not wrong....some of these players need put on blast esoecially for the goat fukking penalties.

                  I am in no way a Hugh Jackson "fan" or a Hugh Jackson apologist.

                  And, I get it, he's an easy target with his record, and fans want his head.

                  But it seems that the fanbase seems all focused on Hugh now and not the players, and it's the players that have not been good enough.

                  I sat in the stands in Tampa the other day (and I have a peeling sunburn to prove it) and I don't think I thought of Hue Jackson once.

                  I thought why does the quarterback not secure the ball once he has a first down? Why is he throwing outlet passes when receivers are free down the field?

                  Why doesn't our pass pocket hold up longer?

                  Why do some receivers run lackadaisical routes and others continually drop passes?

                  Why don't we let the 3rd and longs develop instead of going for the checkdowns so soon?

                  Why do we miss so many tackles?

                  Why are some of the guys on Tampa wide open every down?

                  Where was the pass rush in the first half?

                  Where was the push from our offensive line on the QB sneak?

                  Where was the push from our special teams on the 59 yard field goal?

                  Why can't we make a big play without a penalty or a fumble?

                  And the answer was never "Hugh Jackson". It was players that were not good enough or not experienced enough.

                  They need to get bigger quick.

                  The only time I thought of the coaching staff Sunday was "they need to make adjustments at halftime" ... and they did.

                  Our players need to play better. They need to be better. I think the Jets are the only team we played where we clearly have more talent. So I think Hue is actually playing with house money this year, because he beat them and then beat and tied two other teams that clearly have better players (Baltimore and Pitt).

                  We are 5-2 against the spread, and one of those losses was in overtime, so Vegas clearly thinks we are playing above our heads so far this year.

                  Everyone wants to blame Hue because we are losing close games ... but not give him credit that we are IN close games every single week, with the exception of one.

                  We've got a bunch of players that need to turn potential in to production, and they need to do it by Sunday, because our organization needs this win.

                  I have no doubt that Hugh Jackson, Todd Haley and Gregg Williams did not become stupid when they moved to Cleveland, because they all had nice careers beforehand. They are dealing with young horses, injured horses ... but hungry horses ... I have not seen a lack of effort from these guys, nor have I seen anybody that left the system badmouth the coaches.

                  The coaches are NFL quality. It's time for the players to prove they are.

                  Zombo

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                  • The Gipper The GipperT In Memoriam Very Popular
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                    The GipperT The Gipper wrote on last edited by
                    #24

                    Discipline issues. Coaching 

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                    • The GipperT The Gipper

                      Discipline issues. Coaching 

                      Zombo Z
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                      Z Zombo wrote on last edited by
                      #25

                      @the-gipper said:

                      Discipline issues. Coaching 

                      Yep, we are 4th in penalty yards behind KC, Pittsburgh and GB.

                      Reid, Tomilin and McCarthy ... Bad Coaching.

                      Z

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                      • CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFSC Reacting Well Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                        CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFSC CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS wrote on last edited by
                        #26

                        Youngest team in league. Still learning.

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                        • Z Zombo

                          @clevfan4life said:

                          if we win 6 games y'all know hue's staying right?

                          Well if we don't win six games, every goddamn player on the team needs to be cut. 

                          Hue hasn't dropped a pass, missed a tackle, shanked a Fg or had a penalty called on him yet.

                          These Motherfuckers need to win NOW, Quit letting them hide behind the coaching and hold these motherfucking players accountable, they are the ones who are losing.

                          It's the fucking NFL. You have an NFL coaching staff. You have NFL facilities. Be better than the other guys.

                          Coaches get fired because they are coaching losers.

                          It's up to the players how many games we win. And six out of 16 ain't enough.

                          If we lose to fucking Pittsburgh I would shoot the poorest performing starter in the kneecap after the game in front of his teammates.

                          Z

                          Orion OrionO Conversation Starter Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                          OrionO Orion wrote on last edited by
                          #27

                          Zombo said:

                          Well if we don't win six games, every goddamn player on the team needs to be cut. 

                          C'mon man.   Sashi musta' said that......when he let all of our decent players walk.  "We only won 3 game WITH you guys.  We can't do any worse without ya?"   -  People were saying that (on another board, don't think I was on this one then).....and I kept saying, "No, no.  It CAN get worse.  If we don't keep our decent players it WILL get worse."  

                          You have to walk before you can run.   We've added some good players.  We're actually somewhat competitive.  EVERYTHING cannot be fixed in one offseason.  

                          We were 1-31.  Zero wins last year.  We couldn't even CRAWL last year.  This year we're already walking.  Perhaps with another good offseason we'll be able to run next year.

                          Hue holds us back with his gameday decisions.  He throws everyone under the bus and proclaims his status as HC.  He's a walking contradiction.  -  If we win games it will be because THE PLAYERS overcame the opponent, the officials, and Hue.

                          BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE
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                          • CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFSC CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS

                            Youngest team in league. Still learning.

                            mjp28 mjp28M In Memoriam Dedicated Conversation Starter Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well Week One Done One Month Later One Year In
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                            mjp28M mjp28 wrote on last edited by
                            #28

                            @clevelandwantsplayoffs said:

                            Youngest team in league. Still learning.

                            People tend to forget that average age 24+ a bunch of guys just out of college ball. They will get better.

                            BUT they better to put a few wins together or win 5+ or Hue may be gone with the wind.

                            GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND!
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                            • jiggins7919J jiggins7919

                              @mark-o said:

                              The Rams didn't exactly clean house and rebuild.  They brought in new coaches to work with what was perceived as a roster that had talent but that talent wasn't being utilized properly.   Goff was considered a bust.  Gurley shouldn't have been drafted that high.  The team was going nowhere.  That was the perception when Jeff Fisher was the coach and they won 4 games.  New young head coach, bring in Wade Phillips to coach the defense and have a good draft and a couple of new FA's and look what happened last year.  The Rams went to the playoffs without "rebuilding" the roster.   This year they were in a postion to bring in big time free agents and it looks like its worked out pretty well so far.  

                              A new coach doesn't necessarily rebuilding and having to go through losing seasons again while the team "rebuilds".   It would seem to me that there is talent on this team and the decision behind bringing in a new coach is if ownership feels that the current coaching staff isn't getting the best of the talent that is on the field.

                              If a change is made, the Rams should be the model for how its done and it doesn't have to be completely torn down again. 

                              It's funny you said the Rams, that's the model I keep hoping and praying we follow.  It's downright bizarre to see Goff as a rookie to the talent he is now.  He literally looked like the worst #1 pick in history as a rookie, and with new coaches....BOOM.  

                              Perhaps you're right and we can accomplish something similar.  Man, that'd be so fun.  We're an organization that's been ridiculed (and rightly so) for our persistent turnover.  Keeping Hue Jackson made so much sense, it really did.  And the crazy/frustrating thing is, we could so easily be sitting pretty.  Can you imagine the difference in dialogue and fan perception if we just pulled out the Oakland and Bucs game?  Heck, we'd be the feel good story of the year.  But when the chips are down, when we absolutely HAVE to have a play, our team repeatedly falls short.  We had no business losing that Oakland game.  That's a BAD team right there.  Bucs aren't much better.  We manage 2 freaking points (by our dang DEFENSE) in the first half against the worst defense in the universe?  With a new DC?  

                              You guys remember last year, when a popular sentiment was, "Man, if we just had COMPETENT QB play, we'd have a .500 record!"  Well, right now we have "competent" QB play, and you see it's not enough.  Even with leading the league in turnovers, we can't pull games out because we simply don't score in the first quarter, or second quarter for that matter.  I've stuck up for Hue Jackson long enough.  I just didn't want to envision yet ANOTHER coaching search.  I really thought we finally had "a real coach".  

                              You guys want the GOOD news?  Make sure you finish chewing your food because I don't want anyone to choke, but the Cleveland Browns will be by far the most attractive head coaching vacancy in the league.  Ok, so clean off your monitors, I think some of you got some spittle on the screen.  Bare with me.  The new coach will have his QB under center.  His dominant edge rusher.  A young core of players at vital positions.  Lots of salary cap room.  Most of his draft picks, except the 3rd rounder (I think).  A somewhat declining division. And an owner who wants to win and win NOW.  I mean it...I really believe that for ONCE...the Cleveland Browns are going to be the hot destination for whichever "must have coach" is out there.  

                              Dutch Oven Dutch OvenD Dedicated Conversation Starter Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                              Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven wrote on last edited by
                              #29

                              @jiggins7919 said:

                              You guys want the GOOD news?  Make sure you finish chewing your food because I don't want anyone to choke, but the Cleveland Browns will be by far the most attractive head coaching vacancy in the league.  Ok, so clean off your monitors, I think some of you got some spittle on the screen.  Bare with me.  The new coach will have his QB under center.  His dominant edge rusher.  A young core of players at vital positions.  Lots of salary cap room.  Most of his draft picks, except the 3rd rounder (I think).  A somewhat declining division. And an owner who wants to win and win NOW.  I mean it...I really believe that for ONCE...the Cleveland Browns are going to be the hot destination for whichever "must have coach" is out there.  

                              That's pretty much what I was saying too...

                              The Browns will be a way more attractive job going into next year for everything you said than it would have been if they would have fired Hue after last season. There is no guarantee that the Browns are a contender in the future, but man, the pieces are there. 

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                              • nickersN nickers

                                @dutch-oven said:

                                Now, I'm sure some of you have had a stroke, or possibly a series of strokes, after reading the title to this thread.  

                                Consider this though: If you were John Dorsey, trying to right the ship of one of the most poorly-run franchises in pro sports, what would be an easier sell to potential head coaching candidates? 

                                Taking over a QB-less team who is coming off a record 1-31 stretch after the 2017 season, or taking off a competitive, young team with an established Baker Mayfield after the 2018 season?  In a way, letting Hue take the bullets this season long term might be the best thing for the Browns, even if it sucks for most of us this season. 

                                I see Hue Jackson as more of like our version of Jeff Fisher.. Well liked around the league... Just not a very good Head Coach... I really don't think he'll be back next season..

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                                Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven wrote on last edited by
                                #30

                                @nickers said:

                                I see Hue Jackson as more of like our version of Jeff Fisher.. Well liked around the league... Just not a very good Head Coach... I really don't think he'll be back next season..

                                How Jeff Fisher got as many years as a NFL head coach is one of the great mysteries in life, along with: "What is the purpose of life?", "Where is Jimmy Hoffa bured?" and "What the hell is a Grape Nut?"... And here I thought he was white. 

                                I see nothing so far this season that would make me think John Dorsey is sitting there going: "You know, I need to see me another season of Hue Jackson"... even though I think Zombo has some good points too. If he makes it the whole season, he'll be let go right after. 

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                                • Z Zombo

                                  @the-gipper said:

                                  Discipline issues. Coaching 

                                  Yep, we are 4th in penalty yards behind KC, Pittsburgh and GB.

                                  Reid, Tomilin and McCarthy ... Bad Coaching.

                                  Z

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                                  gumby73G gumby73 wrote on last edited by
                                  #31

                                  Zombo said:

                                  Yep, we are 4th in penalty yards behind KC, Pittsburgh and GB.

                                  Reid, Tomilin and McCarthy ... Bad Coaching.

                                  Z

                                  Pitt has played a game less than us too. Than Due to 4 OT games, we lead the league in total plays, not by a small margin either.1432 plays, to closest KC at 1292 plays. We never had WR's that would even attempt to block till Landry arrived. I'll give everyone of them a pass on a flag blocking.Even the G.Williams play physical defensive penalties i can live with..Here's what's odd between Us with KC.........Us 13 holding calls to KC 8.///Us 8 Illegal blocks.KC 2... ST, blocks in back the difference///Us 7 Def.Offside . KC-4///Us 1 OPI.KC=6///Us 6 false starts.KC 11///US  Ill. pick blocks=3,ill.shifts=2, KC has none..The simple mental flags don't look bad compared to KC's false starts.But our defense needs to sit till ball snap..making it about even    

                                  Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends Team Brotherhood-"It's not about You,Me or I. It's about building We"..Hue Jackson
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                                  • Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven

                                    Now, I'm sure some of you have had a stroke, or possibly a series of strokes, after reading the title to this thread.  

                                    Consider this though: If you were John Dorsey, trying to right the ship of one of the most poorly-run franchises in pro sports, what would be an easier sell to potential head coaching candidates? 

                                    Taking over a QB-less team who is coming off a record 1-31 stretch after the 2017 season, or taking off a competitive, young team with an established Baker Mayfield after the 2018 season?  In a way, letting Hue take the bullets this season long term might be the best thing for the Browns, even if it sucks for most of us this season. 

                                    Realplayer R
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                                    R Realplayer wrote on last edited by
                                    #32

                                    @dutch-oven said:

                                    Now, I'm sure some of you have had a stroke, or possibly a series of strokes, after reading the title to this thread.  

                                    Consider this though: If you were John Dorsey, trying to right the ship of one of the most poorly-run franchises in pro sports, what would be an easier sell to potential head coaching candidates? 

                                    Taking over a QB-less team who is coming off a record 1-31 stretch after the 2017 season, or taking off a competitive, young team with an established Baker Mayfield after the 2018 season?  In a way, letting Hue take the bullets this season long term might be the best thing for the Browns, even if it sucks for most of us this season. 

                                    No, he had a winless season. You clean house. Change the culture. DET did it. 

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                                    • Z Zombo

                                      @clevfan4life said:

                                      zombo's not wrong....some of these players need put on blast esoecially for the goat fukking penalties.

                                      I am in no way a Hugh Jackson "fan" or a Hugh Jackson apologist.

                                      And, I get it, he's an easy target with his record, and fans want his head.

                                      But it seems that the fanbase seems all focused on Hugh now and not the players, and it's the players that have not been good enough.

                                      I sat in the stands in Tampa the other day (and I have a peeling sunburn to prove it) and I don't think I thought of Hue Jackson once.

                                      I thought why does the quarterback not secure the ball once he has a first down? Why is he throwing outlet passes when receivers are free down the field?

                                      Why doesn't our pass pocket hold up longer?

                                      Why do some receivers run lackadaisical routes and others continually drop passes?

                                      Why don't we let the 3rd and longs develop instead of going for the checkdowns so soon?

                                      Why do we miss so many tackles?

                                      Why are some of the guys on Tampa wide open every down?

                                      Where was the pass rush in the first half?

                                      Where was the push from our offensive line on the QB sneak?

                                      Where was the push from our special teams on the 59 yard field goal?

                                      Why can't we make a big play without a penalty or a fumble?

                                      And the answer was never "Hugh Jackson". It was players that were not good enough or not experienced enough.

                                      They need to get bigger quick.

                                      The only time I thought of the coaching staff Sunday was "they need to make adjustments at halftime" ... and they did.

                                      Our players need to play better. They need to be better. I think the Jets are the only team we played where we clearly have more talent. So I think Hue is actually playing with house money this year, because he beat them and then beat and tied two other teams that clearly have better players (Baltimore and Pitt).

                                      We are 5-2 against the spread, and one of those losses was in overtime, so Vegas clearly thinks we are playing above our heads so far this year.

                                      Everyone wants to blame Hue because we are losing close games ... but not give him credit that we are IN close games every single week, with the exception of one.

                                      We've got a bunch of players that need to turn potential in to production, and they need to do it by Sunday, because our organization needs this win.

                                      I have no doubt that Hugh Jackson, Todd Haley and Gregg Williams did not become stupid when they moved to Cleveland, because they all had nice careers beforehand. They are dealing with young horses, injured horses ... but hungry horses ... I have not seen a lack of effort from these guys, nor have I seen anybody that left the system badmouth the coaches.

                                      The coaches are NFL quality. It's time for the players to prove they are.

                                      Zombo

                                      gumby73 gumby73G Conversation Starter Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                                      gumby73G gumby73 wrote on last edited by
                                      #33

                                      Zombo said:

                                      It's time for the players to prove they are.

                                      Zombo

                                      All well said Z.  https://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/26169/baker-mayfield-look-to-players-not-coaches-to-fix-offense   

                                      Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends Team Brotherhood-"It's not about You,Me or I. It's about building We"..Hue Jackson
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                                      • Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven

                                        @nickers said:

                                        I see Hue Jackson as more of like our version of Jeff Fisher.. Well liked around the league... Just not a very good Head Coach... I really don't think he'll be back next season..

                                        How Jeff Fisher got as many years as a NFL head coach is one of the great mysteries in life, along with: "What is the purpose of life?", "Where is Jimmy Hoffa bured?" and "What the hell is a Grape Nut?"... And here I thought he was white. 

                                        I see nothing so far this season that would make me think John Dorsey is sitting there going: "You know, I need to see me another season of Hue Jackson"... even though I think Zombo has some good points too. If he makes it the whole season, he'll be let go right after. 

                                        jiggins7919 jiggins7919J Conversation Starter Dedicated Very Popular Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                                        jiggins7919J jiggins7919 wrote on last edited by
                                        #34

                                        @dutch-oven said:

                                        How Jeff Fisher got as many years as a NFL head coach is one of the great mysteries in life, along with: "What is the purpose of life?", "Where is Jimmy Hoffa bured?" and "What the hell is a Grape Nut?"... And here I thought he was white. 

                                        I see nothing so far this season that would make me think John Dorsey is sitting there going: "You know, I need to see me another season of Hue Jackson"... even though I think Zombo has some good points too. If he makes it the whole season, he'll be let go right after. 

                                        You heard anything on who Dorsey might favor? Maybe whispers from last year or anything? I have no clue. There's a part of me that wouldn't mind Haley. As frustrated as I was with the last game, after I read that film review article, I was less angry with Haley. We had opportunities for big plays and open receivers on almost all of the sacks we took. Baker is just young and didn't fire the ball. My only concern is that our offensive scheme is well-known to be very complex and difficult execute due to the long developing routes and decision making it places on the qb. And if you remember we tried to simplify things in the first half by throwing short passes, and that didn't work at all. 

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                                        • OrionO Orion

                                          Zombo said:

                                          Well if we don't win six games, every goddamn player on the team needs to be cut. 

                                          C'mon man.   Sashi musta' said that......when he let all of our decent players walk.  "We only won 3 game WITH you guys.  We can't do any worse without ya?"   -  People were saying that (on another board, don't think I was on this one then).....and I kept saying, "No, no.  It CAN get worse.  If we don't keep our decent players it WILL get worse."  

                                          You have to walk before you can run.   We've added some good players.  We're actually somewhat competitive.  EVERYTHING cannot be fixed in one offseason.  

                                          We were 1-31.  Zero wins last year.  We couldn't even CRAWL last year.  This year we're already walking.  Perhaps with another good offseason we'll be able to run next year.

                                          Hue holds us back with his gameday decisions.  He throws everyone under the bus and proclaims his status as HC.  He's a walking contradiction.  -  If we win games it will be because THE PLAYERS overcame the opponent, the officials, and Hue.

                                          Zombo Z
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                                          Z Zombo wrote on last edited by
                                          #35

                                          @orion said:

                                          C'mon man.   Sashi musta' said that......when he let all of our decent players walk.  "We only won 3 game WITH you guys.  We can't do any worse without ya?"   -  People were saying that (on another board, don't think I was on this one then).....and I kept saying, "No, no.  It CAN get worse.  If we don't keep our decent players it WILL get worse."  

                                          You have to walk before you can run.   We've added some good players.  We're actually somewhat competitive.  EVERYTHING cannot be fixed in one offseason.  

                                          We were 1-31.  Zero wins last year.  We couldn't even CRAWL last year.  This year we're already walking.  Perhaps with another good offseason we'll be able to run next year.

                                          Hue holds us back with his gameday decisions.  He throws everyone under the bus and proclaims his status as HC.  He's a walking contradiction.  -  If we win games it will be because THE PLAYERS overcame the opponent, the officials, and Hue.

                                          Obviously I'm venting because it is Steeler week and the focus is on Hue, not the team or the game. I don't want to cut everybody and start over, I think we are finally on the right path ... I just want us to concentrate on getting better. To me, that is not about firing coaches, it's about these NFL coaches helping these players becoming better players this year.

                                          If a new head coach is needed, that decision can be made after the season, no need to focus on it now, these are our horses, let's get better ... let's beat Pittsburgh.

                                          Zombo

                                          --It is a "grab 'em by the facemask" kind of week

                                          images.ashx?file=1109_nclo_da_ivey04_501

                                          T Tour2maT OrionO 3 Replies Last reply
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