Long term, was keeping Hue for an extra year a smart move for Browns?
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I will point out that our last six head coaches were axed after a loss to the stealers
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if we win 6 games y'all know hue's staying right?
if we win 6 games y'all know hue's staying right?
Hue is staying, no matter that he does the rest of the season. If he is fired, it won't be until the 2020-21 season.
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Now, I'm sure some of you have had a stroke, or possibly a series of strokes, after reading the title to this thread.
Consider this though: If you were John Dorsey, trying to right the ship of one of the most poorly-run franchises in pro sports, what would be an easier sell to potential head coaching candidates?
Taking over a QB-less team who is coming off a record 1-31 stretch after the 2017 season, or taking off a competitive, young team with an established Baker Mayfield after the 2018 season? In a way, letting Hue take the bullets this season long term might be the best thing for the Browns, even if it sucks for most of us this season.
Now, I'm sure some of you have had a stroke, or possibly a series of strokes, after reading the title to this thread.
Consider this though: If you were John Dorsey, trying to right the ship of one of the most poorly-run franchises in pro sports, what would be an easier sell to potential head coaching candidates?
Taking over a QB-less team who is coming off a record 1-31 stretch after the 2017 season, or taking off a competitive, young team with an established Baker Mayfield after the 2018 season? In a way, letting Hue take the bullets this season long term might be the best thing for the Browns, even if it sucks for most of us this season.
I see Hue Jackson as more of like our version of Jeff Fisher.. Well liked around the league... Just not a very good Head Coach... I really don't think he'll be back next season..
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
zombo's not wrong....some of these players need put on blast esoecially for the goat fukking penalties.
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zombo's not wrong....some of these players need put on blast esoecially for the goat fukking penalties.
zombo's not wrong....some of these players need put on blast esoecially for the goat fukking penalties.
I am in no way a Hugh Jackson "fan" or a Hugh Jackson apologist.
And, I get it, he's an easy target with his record, and fans want his head.
But it seems that the fanbase seems all focused on Hugh now and not the players, and it's the players that have not been good enough.
I sat in the stands in Tampa the other day (and I have a peeling sunburn to prove it) and I don't think I thought of Hue Jackson once.
I thought why does the quarterback not secure the ball once he has a first down? Why is he throwing outlet passes when receivers are free down the field?
Why doesn't our pass pocket hold up longer?
Why do some receivers run lackadaisical routes and others continually drop passes?
Why don't we let the 3rd and longs develop instead of going for the checkdowns so soon?
Why do we miss so many tackles?
Why are some of the guys on Tampa wide open every down?
Where was the pass rush in the first half?
Where was the push from our offensive line on the QB sneak?
Where was the push from our special teams on the 59 yard field goal?
Why can't we make a big play without a penalty or a fumble?
And the answer was never "Hugh Jackson". It was players that were not good enough or not experienced enough.
They need to get bigger quick.
The only time I thought of the coaching staff Sunday was "they need to make adjustments at halftime" ... and they did.
Our players need to play better. They need to be better. I think the Jets are the only team we played where we clearly have more talent. So I think Hue is actually playing with house money this year, because he beat them and then beat and tied two other teams that clearly have better players (Baltimore and Pitt).
We are 5-2 against the spread, and one of those losses was in overtime, so Vegas clearly thinks we are playing above our heads so far this year.
Everyone wants to blame Hue because we are losing close games ... but not give him credit that we are IN close games every single week, with the exception of one.
We've got a bunch of players that need to turn potential in to production, and they need to do it by Sunday, because our organization needs this win.
I have no doubt that Hugh Jackson, Todd Haley and Gregg Williams did not become stupid when they moved to Cleveland, because they all had nice careers beforehand. They are dealing with young horses, injured horses ... but hungry horses ... I have not seen a lack of effort from these guys, nor have I seen anybody that left the system badmouth the coaches.
The coaches are NFL quality. It's time for the players to prove they are.
Zombo
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Discipline issues. Coaching
Discipline issues. Coaching
Yep, we are 4th in penalty yards behind KC, Pittsburgh and GB.
Reid, Tomilin and McCarthy ... Bad Coaching.
Z
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Youngest team in league. Still learning.
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if we win 6 games y'all know hue's staying right?
Well if we don't win six games, every goddamn player on the team needs to be cut.
Hue hasn't dropped a pass, missed a tackle, shanked a Fg or had a penalty called on him yet.
These Motherfuckers need to win NOW, Quit letting them hide behind the coaching and hold these motherfucking players accountable, they are the ones who are losing.
It's the fucking NFL. You have an NFL coaching staff. You have NFL facilities. Be better than the other guys.
Coaches get fired because they are coaching losers.
It's up to the players how many games we win. And six out of 16 ain't enough.
If we lose to fucking Pittsburgh I would shoot the poorest performing starter in the kneecap after the game in front of his teammates.
Z
Zombo said:
Well if we don't win six games, every goddamn player on the team needs to be cut.
C'mon man. Sashi musta' said that......when he let all of our decent players walk. "We only won 3 game WITH you guys. We can't do any worse without ya?" - People were saying that (on another board, don't think I was on this one then).....and I kept saying, "No, no. It CAN get worse. If we don't keep our decent players it WILL get worse."
You have to walk before you can run. We've added some good players. We're actually somewhat competitive. EVERYTHING cannot be fixed in one offseason.
We were 1-31. Zero wins last year. We couldn't even CRAWL last year. This year we're already walking. Perhaps with another good offseason we'll be able to run next year.
Hue holds us back with his gameday decisions. He throws everyone under the bus and proclaims his status as HC. He's a walking contradiction. - If we win games it will be because THE PLAYERS overcame the opponent, the officials, and Hue.
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Youngest team in league. Still learning.
Youngest team in league. Still learning.
People tend to forget that average age 24+ a bunch of guys just out of college ball. They will get better.
BUT they better to put a few wins together or win 5+ or Hue may be gone with the wind.
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The Rams didn't exactly clean house and rebuild. They brought in new coaches to work with what was perceived as a roster that had talent but that talent wasn't being utilized properly. Goff was considered a bust. Gurley shouldn't have been drafted that high. The team was going nowhere. That was the perception when Jeff Fisher was the coach and they won 4 games. New young head coach, bring in Wade Phillips to coach the defense and have a good draft and a couple of new FA's and look what happened last year. The Rams went to the playoffs without "rebuilding" the roster. This year they were in a postion to bring in big time free agents and it looks like its worked out pretty well so far.
A new coach doesn't necessarily rebuilding and having to go through losing seasons again while the team "rebuilds". It would seem to me that there is talent on this team and the decision behind bringing in a new coach is if ownership feels that the current coaching staff isn't getting the best of the talent that is on the field.
If a change is made, the Rams should be the model for how its done and it doesn't have to be completely torn down again.
It's funny you said the Rams, that's the model I keep hoping and praying we follow. It's downright bizarre to see Goff as a rookie to the talent he is now. He literally looked like the worst #1 pick in history as a rookie, and with new coaches....BOOM.
Perhaps you're right and we can accomplish something similar. Man, that'd be so fun. We're an organization that's been ridiculed (and rightly so) for our persistent turnover. Keeping Hue Jackson made so much sense, it really did. And the crazy/frustrating thing is, we could so easily be sitting pretty. Can you imagine the difference in dialogue and fan perception if we just pulled out the Oakland and Bucs game? Heck, we'd be the feel good story of the year. But when the chips are down, when we absolutely HAVE to have a play, our team repeatedly falls short. We had no business losing that Oakland game. That's a BAD team right there. Bucs aren't much better. We manage 2 freaking points (by our dang DEFENSE) in the first half against the worst defense in the universe? With a new DC?
You guys remember last year, when a popular sentiment was, "Man, if we just had COMPETENT QB play, we'd have a .500 record!" Well, right now we have "competent" QB play, and you see it's not enough. Even with leading the league in turnovers, we can't pull games out because we simply don't score in the first quarter, or second quarter for that matter. I've stuck up for Hue Jackson long enough. I just didn't want to envision yet ANOTHER coaching search. I really thought we finally had "a real coach".
You guys want the GOOD news? Make sure you finish chewing your food because I don't want anyone to choke, but the Cleveland Browns will be by far the most attractive head coaching vacancy in the league. Ok, so clean off your monitors, I think some of you got some spittle on the screen. Bare with me. The new coach will have his QB under center. His dominant edge rusher. A young core of players at vital positions. Lots of salary cap room. Most of his draft picks, except the 3rd rounder (I think). A somewhat declining division. And an owner who wants to win and win NOW. I mean it...I really believe that for ONCE...the Cleveland Browns are going to be the hot destination for whichever "must have coach" is out there.
You guys want the GOOD news? Make sure you finish chewing your food because I don't want anyone to choke, but the Cleveland Browns will be by far the most attractive head coaching vacancy in the league. Ok, so clean off your monitors, I think some of you got some spittle on the screen. Bare with me. The new coach will have his QB under center. His dominant edge rusher. A young core of players at vital positions. Lots of salary cap room. Most of his draft picks, except the 3rd rounder (I think). A somewhat declining division. And an owner who wants to win and win NOW. I mean it...I really believe that for ONCE...the Cleveland Browns are going to be the hot destination for whichever "must have coach" is out there.
That's pretty much what I was saying too...
The Browns will be a way more attractive job going into next year for everything you said than it would have been if they would have fired Hue after last season. There is no guarantee that the Browns are a contender in the future, but man, the pieces are there.
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Now, I'm sure some of you have had a stroke, or possibly a series of strokes, after reading the title to this thread.
Consider this though: If you were John Dorsey, trying to right the ship of one of the most poorly-run franchises in pro sports, what would be an easier sell to potential head coaching candidates?
Taking over a QB-less team who is coming off a record 1-31 stretch after the 2017 season, or taking off a competitive, young team with an established Baker Mayfield after the 2018 season? In a way, letting Hue take the bullets this season long term might be the best thing for the Browns, even if it sucks for most of us this season.
I see Hue Jackson as more of like our version of Jeff Fisher.. Well liked around the league... Just not a very good Head Coach... I really don't think he'll be back next season..
I see Hue Jackson as more of like our version of Jeff Fisher.. Well liked around the league... Just not a very good Head Coach... I really don't think he'll be back next season..
How Jeff Fisher got as many years as a NFL head coach is one of the great mysteries in life, along with: "What is the purpose of life?", "Where is Jimmy Hoffa bured?" and "What the hell is a Grape Nut?"... And here I thought he was white.
I see nothing so far this season that would make me think John Dorsey is sitting there going: "You know, I need to see me another season of Hue Jackson"... even though I think Zombo has some good points too. If he makes it the whole season, he'll be let go right after.
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Discipline issues. Coaching
Yep, we are 4th in penalty yards behind KC, Pittsburgh and GB.
Reid, Tomilin and McCarthy ... Bad Coaching.
Z
Zombo said:
Yep, we are 4th in penalty yards behind KC, Pittsburgh and GB.
Reid, Tomilin and McCarthy ... Bad Coaching.
Z
Pitt has played a game less than us too. Than Due to 4 OT games, we lead the league in total plays, not by a small margin either.1432 plays, to closest KC at 1292 plays. We never had WR's that would even attempt to block till Landry arrived. I'll give everyone of them a pass on a flag blocking.Even the G.Williams play physical defensive penalties i can live with..Here's what's odd between Us with KC.........Us 13 holding calls to KC 8.///Us 8 Illegal blocks.KC 2... ST, blocks in back the difference///Us 7 Def.Offside . KC-4///Us 1 OPI.KC=6///Us 6 false starts.KC 11///US Ill. pick blocks=3,ill.shifts=2, KC has none..The simple mental flags don't look bad compared to KC's false starts.But our defense needs to sit till ball snap..making it about even
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Now, I'm sure some of you have had a stroke, or possibly a series of strokes, after reading the title to this thread.
Consider this though: If you were John Dorsey, trying to right the ship of one of the most poorly-run franchises in pro sports, what would be an easier sell to potential head coaching candidates?
Taking over a QB-less team who is coming off a record 1-31 stretch after the 2017 season, or taking off a competitive, young team with an established Baker Mayfield after the 2018 season? In a way, letting Hue take the bullets this season long term might be the best thing for the Browns, even if it sucks for most of us this season.
Now, I'm sure some of you have had a stroke, or possibly a series of strokes, after reading the title to this thread.
Consider this though: If you were John Dorsey, trying to right the ship of one of the most poorly-run franchises in pro sports, what would be an easier sell to potential head coaching candidates?
Taking over a QB-less team who is coming off a record 1-31 stretch after the 2017 season, or taking off a competitive, young team with an established Baker Mayfield after the 2018 season? In a way, letting Hue take the bullets this season long term might be the best thing for the Browns, even if it sucks for most of us this season.
No, he had a winless season. You clean house. Change the culture. DET did it.
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zombo's not wrong....some of these players need put on blast esoecially for the goat fukking penalties.
I am in no way a Hugh Jackson "fan" or a Hugh Jackson apologist.
And, I get it, he's an easy target with his record, and fans want his head.
But it seems that the fanbase seems all focused on Hugh now and not the players, and it's the players that have not been good enough.
I sat in the stands in Tampa the other day (and I have a peeling sunburn to prove it) and I don't think I thought of Hue Jackson once.
I thought why does the quarterback not secure the ball once he has a first down? Why is he throwing outlet passes when receivers are free down the field?
Why doesn't our pass pocket hold up longer?
Why do some receivers run lackadaisical routes and others continually drop passes?
Why don't we let the 3rd and longs develop instead of going for the checkdowns so soon?
Why do we miss so many tackles?
Why are some of the guys on Tampa wide open every down?
Where was the pass rush in the first half?
Where was the push from our offensive line on the QB sneak?
Where was the push from our special teams on the 59 yard field goal?
Why can't we make a big play without a penalty or a fumble?
And the answer was never "Hugh Jackson". It was players that were not good enough or not experienced enough.
They need to get bigger quick.
The only time I thought of the coaching staff Sunday was "they need to make adjustments at halftime" ... and they did.
Our players need to play better. They need to be better. I think the Jets are the only team we played where we clearly have more talent. So I think Hue is actually playing with house money this year, because he beat them and then beat and tied two other teams that clearly have better players (Baltimore and Pitt).
We are 5-2 against the spread, and one of those losses was in overtime, so Vegas clearly thinks we are playing above our heads so far this year.
Everyone wants to blame Hue because we are losing close games ... but not give him credit that we are IN close games every single week, with the exception of one.
We've got a bunch of players that need to turn potential in to production, and they need to do it by Sunday, because our organization needs this win.
I have no doubt that Hugh Jackson, Todd Haley and Gregg Williams did not become stupid when they moved to Cleveland, because they all had nice careers beforehand. They are dealing with young horses, injured horses ... but hungry horses ... I have not seen a lack of effort from these guys, nor have I seen anybody that left the system badmouth the coaches.
The coaches are NFL quality. It's time for the players to prove they are.
Zombo
Zombo said:
It's time for the players to prove they are.
Zombo
All well said Z. https://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/26169/baker-mayfield-look-to-players-not-coaches-to-fix-offense
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I see Hue Jackson as more of like our version of Jeff Fisher.. Well liked around the league... Just not a very good Head Coach... I really don't think he'll be back next season..
How Jeff Fisher got as many years as a NFL head coach is one of the great mysteries in life, along with: "What is the purpose of life?", "Where is Jimmy Hoffa bured?" and "What the hell is a Grape Nut?"... And here I thought he was white.
I see nothing so far this season that would make me think John Dorsey is sitting there going: "You know, I need to see me another season of Hue Jackson"... even though I think Zombo has some good points too. If he makes it the whole season, he'll be let go right after.
How Jeff Fisher got as many years as a NFL head coach is one of the great mysteries in life, along with: "What is the purpose of life?", "Where is Jimmy Hoffa bured?" and "What the hell is a Grape Nut?"... And here I thought he was white.
I see nothing so far this season that would make me think John Dorsey is sitting there going: "You know, I need to see me another season of Hue Jackson"... even though I think Zombo has some good points too. If he makes it the whole season, he'll be let go right after.
You heard anything on who Dorsey might favor? Maybe whispers from last year or anything? I have no clue. There's a part of me that wouldn't mind Haley. As frustrated as I was with the last game, after I read that film review article, I was less angry with Haley. We had opportunities for big plays and open receivers on almost all of the sacks we took. Baker is just young and didn't fire the ball. My only concern is that our offensive scheme is well-known to be very complex and difficult execute due to the long developing routes and decision making it places on the qb. And if you remember we tried to simplify things in the first half by throwing short passes, and that didn't work at all.
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Zombo said:
Well if we don't win six games, every goddamn player on the team needs to be cut.
C'mon man. Sashi musta' said that......when he let all of our decent players walk. "We only won 3 game WITH you guys. We can't do any worse without ya?" - People were saying that (on another board, don't think I was on this one then).....and I kept saying, "No, no. It CAN get worse. If we don't keep our decent players it WILL get worse."
You have to walk before you can run. We've added some good players. We're actually somewhat competitive. EVERYTHING cannot be fixed in one offseason.
We were 1-31. Zero wins last year. We couldn't even CRAWL last year. This year we're already walking. Perhaps with another good offseason we'll be able to run next year.
Hue holds us back with his gameday decisions. He throws everyone under the bus and proclaims his status as HC. He's a walking contradiction. - If we win games it will be because THE PLAYERS overcame the opponent, the officials, and Hue.
C'mon man. Sashi musta' said that......when he let all of our decent players walk. "We only won 3 game WITH you guys. We can't do any worse without ya?" - People were saying that (on another board, don't think I was on this one then).....and I kept saying, "No, no. It CAN get worse. If we don't keep our decent players it WILL get worse."
You have to walk before you can run. We've added some good players. We're actually somewhat competitive. EVERYTHING cannot be fixed in one offseason.
We were 1-31. Zero wins last year. We couldn't even CRAWL last year. This year we're already walking. Perhaps with another good offseason we'll be able to run next year.
Hue holds us back with his gameday decisions. He throws everyone under the bus and proclaims his status as HC. He's a walking contradiction. - If we win games it will be because THE PLAYERS overcame the opponent, the officials, and Hue.
Obviously I'm venting because it is Steeler week and the focus is on Hue, not the team or the game. I don't want to cut everybody and start over, I think we are finally on the right path ... I just want us to concentrate on getting better. To me, that is not about firing coaches, it's about these NFL coaches helping these players becoming better players this year.
If a new head coach is needed, that decision can be made after the season, no need to focus on it now, these are our horses, let's get better ... let's beat Pittsburgh.
Zombo
--It is a "grab 'em by the facemask" kind of week
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C'mon man. Sashi musta' said that......when he let all of our decent players walk. "We only won 3 game WITH you guys. We can't do any worse without ya?" - People were saying that (on another board, don't think I was on this one then).....and I kept saying, "No, no. It CAN get worse. If we don't keep our decent players it WILL get worse."
You have to walk before you can run. We've added some good players. We're actually somewhat competitive. EVERYTHING cannot be fixed in one offseason.
We were 1-31. Zero wins last year. We couldn't even CRAWL last year. This year we're already walking. Perhaps with another good offseason we'll be able to run next year.
Hue holds us back with his gameday decisions. He throws everyone under the bus and proclaims his status as HC. He's a walking contradiction. - If we win games it will be because THE PLAYERS overcame the opponent, the officials, and Hue.
Obviously I'm venting because it is Steeler week and the focus is on Hue, not the team or the game. I don't want to cut everybody and start over, I think we are finally on the right path ... I just want us to concentrate on getting better. To me, that is not about firing coaches, it's about these NFL coaches helping these players becoming better players this year.
If a new head coach is needed, that decision can be made after the season, no need to focus on it now, these are our horses, let's get better ... let's beat Pittsburgh.
Zombo
--It is a "grab 'em by the facemask" kind of week
Zombo said:
Zombo
--It is a "grab 'em by the facemask" kind of week
Dammit Z you just jinxed 'em. Now you know the refs will be watching us for that.?
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I see Hue Jackson as more of like our version of Jeff Fisher.. Well liked around the league... Just not a very good Head Coach... I really don't think he'll be back next season..
How Jeff Fisher got as many years as a NFL head coach is one of the great mysteries in life, along with: "What is the purpose of life?", "Where is Jimmy Hoffa bured?" and "What the hell is a Grape Nut?"... And here I thought he was white.
I see nothing so far this season that would make me think John Dorsey is sitting there going: "You know, I need to see me another season of Hue Jackson"... even though I think Zombo has some good points too. If he makes it the whole season, he'll be let go right after.
How Jeff Fisher got as many years as a NFL head coach is one of the great mysteries in life...
Not really...
Jeff was a very good DC out of the Buddy Ryan school and when he had a good QB, e.g., Steve McNair, he posted two 13-3 seasons and added a third with Kerry Collins. Overall with McNair he was 81-63 with 23 of those loses coming in McNair's last two season with TN when injuries had him in decline.
That kind of performance tends to keep you employed.
Consider this though: If you were John Dorsey, trying to right the ship of one of the most poorly-run franchises in pro sports, what would be an easier sell to potential head coaching candidates?
Taking over a QB-less team who is coming off a record 1-31 stretch after the 2017 season, or taking off a competitive, young team with an established Baker Mayfield after the 2018 season? In a way, letting Hue take the bullets this season long term might be the best thing for the Browns, even if it sucks for most of us this season.
Good take, but also have to remember that Dorsey was told who his HC would be when he took the job.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
C'mon man. Sashi musta' said that......when he let all of our decent players walk. "We only won 3 game WITH you guys. We can't do any worse without ya?" - People were saying that (on another board, don't think I was on this one then).....and I kept saying, "No, no. It CAN get worse. If we don't keep our decent players it WILL get worse."
You have to walk before you can run. We've added some good players. We're actually somewhat competitive. EVERYTHING cannot be fixed in one offseason.
We were 1-31. Zero wins last year. We couldn't even CRAWL last year. This year we're already walking. Perhaps with another good offseason we'll be able to run next year.
Hue holds us back with his gameday decisions. He throws everyone under the bus and proclaims his status as HC. He's a walking contradiction. - If we win games it will be because THE PLAYERS overcame the opponent, the officials, and Hue.
Obviously I'm venting because it is Steeler week and the focus is on Hue, not the team or the game. I don't want to cut everybody and start over, I think we are finally on the right path ... I just want us to concentrate on getting better. To me, that is not about firing coaches, it's about these NFL coaches helping these players becoming better players this year.
If a new head coach is needed, that decision can be made after the season, no need to focus on it now, these are our horses, let's get better ... let's beat Pittsburgh.
Zombo
--It is a "grab 'em by the facemask" kind of week
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