targeting the secondary in the draft....
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We really may be in a position to go bpa, and l keep hearing this is a deep draft for DL which l agree we need.
But if bpa happens to be another position then go for it.
I’m actually quite interested in seeing what we have in store for offseason development snd retainment of current players. Like l’d like to see our strength and conditioning coach move in with Des Harrison and Austin Corbett and get those guys up to speed for next year.
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While I'm always open to adding a talented Safety - I'm not so sure SS is our biggest need (didn't you frequently post how it wasn't that important?). We know you predicted Peppers would suck so you don't want to acknowledge the way he was used at Michigan gave him the biggest learning curve while lining him up in Canada most of his rookie season did nothing to expedite the curve. You've cornered yourself into rooting for your predictions here. Just last week, Peppers' perfect timed a hit and tackle shy of the goal line during the catch ignited a goal line stand that changed the complexion of the Atlanta game.
Easy there, hoss. I know you got half a chubby over him being our 5th ranked defender but he still grades in the 'average' category. First round picks need to be a bit more than that, so lets see what happens over the back half of this season and the pivotal 3rd season.
But you said we would be getting an elite player - which he is not yet. That said, I am encouraged by some of his progress. In short, at ease.
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Easy there, hoss. I know you got half a chubby over him being our 5th ranked defender but he still grades in the 'average' category. First round picks need to be a bit more than that, so lets see what happens over the back half of this season and the pivotal 3rd season.
But you said we would be getting an elite player - which he is not yet. That said, I am encouraged by some of his progress. In short, at ease.
Easy there, hoss. I know you got half a chubby over him being our 5th ranked defender but he still grades in the 'average' category. First round picks need to be a bit more than that, so lets see what happens over the back half of this season and the pivotal 3rd season.
But you said we would be getting an elite player - which he is not yet. That said, I am encouraged by some of his progress. In short, at ease.
- I'm more enjoying someone calling out Taco on his overly biased BS. Hell, the guy was even Sheet talking Randall
- 60+ is average. 70+ is above average. Pep got a 69.9...... sure, round that down to average, lol.
- I'm not sure I ever said elite, definitely not to start. That being said, I sure as hell would have never said he'd excel 35 yards off the ball as a deep safety. Now he's playing in his element and it shows. Just lost some time developing unfortunately. Basically most of what I said when he came out, but it is hard to see that through some of the outrage on here.
In short, I wasn't implying what you think I was
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Peppers has been doing a good job in the strong safety position.
Was he worth a first rounder? No, not at all. His production at a position made less important in a passing league could have been found by a competent 4th rounder.
That isn't Peppers fault. He's doing a good job.
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I agree.
While he shouldn't have been selected when we did, that doesn't make him a bad player just because he doesn't measure up to peoples expectations.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
He's a really good mediocre player.
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Ward, Randall and Peppers are three of our highest rated players and they will all be back under contract, as will Mitchell and Carrie.
Love to get another stud opposite Ward, but Tackle, WR. DT, OLB are also needs, and we can use another pass rusher.
It all depends on who the head coach is, who his coordinators are, how we play out the season, where we drafft and who we sign in free agency ... so that's why I don't play the draft game until April.
Z
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Peppers has been doing a good job in the strong safety position.
Was he worth a first rounder? No, not at all. His production at a position made less important in a passing league could have been found by a competent 4th rounder.
That isn't Peppers fault. He's doing a good job.
position made less important in a passing league could have been found by a competent 4th rounder.
I disagree and I will give you my reason.
The modern safety that Peppers was drafted in the mold of is being asked to play nickel backer, often times getting man on looks with slot receivers and TE's. Then quite differently might play a more traditional role, attacking the LoS and creating that 8 man front. Depending on scheme he can be the vice or run force player. So either he secures the tackle as it is spilled to him or he turns everything back inside to pursuit. Then there is being asked to play back on a hash in coverages ranging from 1/2, 1/4, 1/3 field reads or straight man coverage.
New SS is an important position because it is a crucial matchup piece in the right defense. However it is manned by undersized LB's or oversized safety tweeners at the collegiate level. The role is very common now, so much like oversized WR's that become TE's... There is great value to be found outside of the first round.
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I agree.
While he shouldn't have been selected when we did, that doesn't make him a bad player just because he doesn't measure up to peoples expectations.
I agree.
While he shouldn't have been selected when we did, that doesn't make him a bad player just because he doesn't measure up to peoples expectations.
As I see it.....last year he played totally out of position, ergo partially the reason for his suckitude. The other part of the reason is that he just was possibly overrated. Now he seems to be doing a competent job; but, I don't think he is going to be getting any votes for the Pro Bowl....which, quite frankly is what we expected from him....Pro Bowl DB performance. Getting mid-range NFL player performance is what we are getting...which is, I guess, what we will have to be satisfied with.
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Here's an idea: Draft this punter. He just set a new NCAA mark and depending upon how he does in the last game against LSU, he is on pace to break the all-time single season punting average. He leads in the Ray Guy Award too.
-When Braden Mann connected on a 60-yard punt in the first quarter, he broke the NCAA single-season record of 60+-yard punts with 15.
Here's an idea: Draft this punter. He just set a new NCAA mark and depending upon how he does in the last game against LSU, he is on pace to break the all-time single season punting average. He leads in the Ray Guy Award too.
-When Braden Mann connected on a 60-yard punt in the first quarter, he broke the NCAA single-season record of 60+-yard punts with 15.
Aggie fag.
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Peppers has been doing a good job in the strong safety position.
Was he worth a first rounder? No, not at all. His production at a position made less important in a passing league could have been found by a competent 4th rounder.
That isn't Peppers fault. He's doing a good job.
Peppers has been doing a good job in the strong safety position.
Was he worth a first rounder? No, not at all. His production at a position made less important in a passing league could have been found by a competent 4th rounder.
That isn't Peppers fault. He's doing a good job.
Here's the thing, inexperienced QBs of an NFL Offense tend to do best when their Coordinator includes some of the plays they excelled at in college (ie; Cam Newton, DeSahun Watson, Carson Wentz, etc). The same thing should apply to a QB of an NFL defense. For example, when Williams lined up Peppers in another area code/Toronto as a rookie FS - it was like asking him to be fluent speaking a foreign language immediately and watching fans call him a bust for the inability to do so. His #1 critic (Taco) predicting he'd suck wanted no parts of hearing excuses especially in lieu of hearing people telling him he was so right. So, when Williams moved Peppers up closer to the line of scrimmage and gave him a role more similar to what he did at Michigan - GUESS who played his best 2 games as a rookie? Did you ever wonder why Josh Cribbs was way better at taking the shotgun snap from Center and running the ball than he was at playing WR? Maybe, just maybe, he had 3-4 years of experience (and practice makes perfect) doing this specific role in college to the extent it created a more comfortable niche for him.
So, now that there was some degree of momentum with Peppers at the end of 2017 - Williams still preferred a guy better suited to play FS which was added to his deck of cards with the trade for Randall in 2018. Okay, no problem as long as we understand Peppers has 1 less year of NFL experience (which is 0 experience) at playing SS than Kindred had. In essence, Peppers has had to learn 2 completely different positions in just the 2 years he's been here to shed some light on why there has been a 2nd but expedited learning curve here. Shouldn't we be happy to see him making a play like he made against Atlanta shy of the goal line to set up and ignite the goal line stand? He also had a similar tackle vrs the Jets on 4th down that ended their drive. The time share with Kindred doesn't have to mean he sucks. He's going to make mistakes in his first year in another new gig - that doesn't have to mean he sucks either. Unless one wants him to or needs him to... Right Taco? Taco?
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
position made less important in a passing league could have been found by a competent 4th rounder.
I disagree and I will give you my reason.
The modern safety that Peppers was drafted in the mold of is being asked to play nickel backer, often times getting man on looks with slot receivers and TE's. Then quite differently might play a more traditional role, attacking the LoS and creating that 8 man front. Depending on scheme he can be the vice or run force player. So either he secures the tackle as it is spilled to him or he turns everything back inside to pursuit. Then there is being asked to play back on a hash in coverages ranging from 1/2, 1/4, 1/3 field reads or straight man coverage.
New SS is an important position because it is a crucial matchup piece in the right defense. However it is manned by undersized LB's or oversized safety tweeners at the collegiate level. The role is very common now, so much like oversized WR's that become TE's... There is great value to be found outside of the first round.
I disagree and I will give you my reason.
The modern safety that Peppers was drafted in the mold of is being asked to play nickel backer, often times getting man on looks with slot receivers and TE's. Then quite differently might play a more traditional role, attacking the LoS and creating that 8 man front. Depending on scheme he can be the vice or run force player. So either he secures the tackle as it is spilled to him or he turns everything back inside to pursuit. Then there is being asked to play back on a hash in coverages ranging from 1/2, 1/4, 1/3 field reads or straight man coverage.
New SS is an important position because it is a crucial matchup piece in the right defense. However it is manned by undersized LB's or oversized safety tweeners at the collegiate level. The role is very common now, so much like oversized WR's that become TE's... There is great value to be found outside of the first round.
Well said. Anyone that is actually watching the games can see all of the roles they're having Pep (and Kindred) play. It's the Swiss army knife a creative DC can use to get a matchup. What myself, and others, said when we drafted him. A player that can go from blitzing, setting the edge, covering TEs, covering slot WRs, and covering deep. Not a flashy position. It fits with the evolution of the NFL to more hybrid positions. The draft value of that position is up for debate.
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Peppers has been doing a good job in the strong safety position.
Was he worth a first rounder? No, not at all. His production at a position made less important in a passing league could have been found by a competent 4th rounder.
That isn't Peppers fault. He's doing a good job.
Here's the thing, inexperienced QBs of an NFL Offense tend to do best when their Coordinator includes some of the plays they excelled at in college (ie; Cam Newton, DeSahun Watson, Carson Wentz, etc). The same thing should apply to a QB of an NFL defense. For example, when Williams lined up Peppers in another area code/Toronto as a rookie FS - it was like asking him to be fluent speaking a foreign language immediately and watching fans call him a bust for the inability to do so. His #1 critic (Taco) predicting he'd suck wanted no parts of hearing excuses especially in lieu of hearing people telling him he was so right. So, when Williams moved Peppers up closer to the line of scrimmage and gave him a role more similar to what he did at Michigan - GUESS who played his best 2 games as a rookie? Did you ever wonder why Josh Cribbs was way better at taking the shotgun snap from Center and running the ball than he was at playing WR? Maybe, just maybe, he had 3-4 years of experience (and practice makes perfect) doing this specific role in college to the extent it created a more comfortable niche for him.
So, now that there was some degree of momentum with Peppers at the end of 2017 - Williams still preferred a guy better suited to play FS which was added to his deck of cards with the trade for Randall in 2018. Okay, no problem as long as we understand Peppers has 1 less year of NFL experience (which is 0 experience) at playing SS than Kindred had. In essence, Peppers has had to learn 2 completely different positions in just the 2 years he's been here to shed some light on why there has been a 2nd but expedited learning curve here. Shouldn't we be happy to see him making a play like he made against Atlanta shy of the goal line to set up and ignite the goal line stand? He also had a similar tackle vrs the Jets on 4th down that ended their drive. The time share with Kindred doesn't have to mean he sucks. He's going to make mistakes in his first year in another new gig - that doesn't have to mean he sucks either. Unless one wants him to or needs him to... Right Taco? Taco?
Here's the thing, inexperienced QBs of an NFL Offense tend to do best when their Coordinator include some of the plays they excelled at in college (ie; Cam Newton, DeSahun Watson, Carson Wentz, etc). The same thing should apply to a QB of an NFL defense. For example, when Williams lined up Peppers in another area code/Toronto as a rookie FS - it was like asking him to be fluent speaking a foreign language immediately and watching fans call him a bust for the inability to do so. His #1 critic (Taco) predicting he'd suck wanted no parts of hearing excuses especially in lieu of hearing people telling him he was so right. So, when Williams moved Peppers up closer to the line of scrimmage and gave him a role more similar to what he did at Michigan - GUESS who played his best 2 games as a rookie? Did you ever wonder why Josh Cribbs was way better at taking the shotgun snap from Center and running the ball than he was at playing WR? Maybe, just maybe, he had 3-4 years of experience (and practice makes perfect) doing this specific role in college to the extent it created a more comfortable niche for him.
So, now that there was some degree of momentum with Peppers at the end of 2017 - Williams still preferred a guy better suited to play FS which was added to his deck of cards with the trade for Randall in 2018. Okay, no problem as long as we understand Peppers has 1 less year of NFL experience (which is 0 experience) at playing SS than Kindred had. In essence, Peppers has had to learn 2 completely different positions in just the 2 years he's been here to shed some light on why there has been a 2nd but expedited learning curve here. Shouldn't we be happy to see him making a play like he made against Atlanta shy of the goal line to set up and ignite the goal line stand? He also had a similar tackle vrs the Jets on 4th down that ended their drive. The time share with Kindred doesn't have to mean he sucks. He's going to make mistakes in his first year in another new gig - that doesn't have to mean he sucks either. Unless one wants him to or needs him to... Right Taco? Taco?
No, he's trash and has always been trash since he was at shitty dumb Michigan, which also sucks, but my evaluation has nothing to do with that....
It's also worth noting that, while Kindred and Pep are splitting some amount of snaps on defense, both of them are playing a ton of special teams snaps.
Finally, since we're talking about previous experience, as I mentioned when we drafted him, Pep had maybe two years at this position in college. Depending on how you look at it. He took an NFL hit to help the team out and he knew that.
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Here's the thing, inexperienced QBs of an NFL Offense tend to do best when their Coordinator include some of the plays they excelled at in college (ie; Cam Newton, DeSahun Watson, Carson Wentz, etc). The same thing should apply to a QB of an NFL defense. For example, when Williams lined up Peppers in another area code/Toronto as a rookie FS - it was like asking him to be fluent speaking a foreign language immediately and watching fans call him a bust for the inability to do so. His #1 critic (Taco) predicting he'd suck wanted no parts of hearing excuses especially in lieu of hearing people telling him he was so right. So, when Williams moved Peppers up closer to the line of scrimmage and gave him a role more similar to what he did at Michigan - GUESS who played his best 2 games as a rookie? Did you ever wonder why Josh Cribbs was way better at taking the shotgun snap from Center and running the ball than he was at playing WR? Maybe, just maybe, he had 3-4 years of experience (and practice makes perfect) doing this specific role in college to the extent it created a more comfortable niche for him.
So, now that there was some degree of momentum with Peppers at the end of 2017 - Williams still preferred a guy better suited to play FS which was added to his deck of cards with the trade for Randall in 2018. Okay, no problem as long as we understand Peppers has 1 less year of NFL experience (which is 0 experience) at playing SS than Kindred had. In essence, Peppers has had to learn 2 completely different positions in just the 2 years he's been here to shed some light on why there has been a 2nd but expedited learning curve here. Shouldn't we be happy to see him making a play like he made against Atlanta shy of the goal line to set up and ignite the goal line stand? He also had a similar tackle vrs the Jets on 4th down that ended their drive. The time share with Kindred doesn't have to mean he sucks. He's going to make mistakes in his first year in another new gig - that doesn't have to mean he sucks either. Unless one wants him to or needs him to... Right Taco? Taco?
No, he's trash and has always been trash since he was at shitty dumb Michigan, which also sucks, but my evaluation has nothing to do with that....
It's also worth noting that, while Kindred and Pep are splitting some amount of snaps on defense, both of them are playing a ton of special teams snaps.
Finally, since we're talking about previous experience, as I mentioned when we drafted him, Pep had maybe two years at this position in college. Depending on how you look at it. He took an NFL hit to help the team out and he knew that.
No, he's trash and has always been trash since he was at shitty dumb Michigan, which also sucks, but my evaluation has nothing to do with that....
It's also worth noting that, while Kindred and Pep are splitting some amount of snaps on defense, both of them are playing a ton of special teams snaps.
Finally, since we're talking about previous experience, as I mentioned when we drafted him, Pep had maybe two years at this position in college. Depending on how you look at it. He took an NFL hit to help the team out and he knew that.
Why is this average player the only guy you ever talk about?
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I agree.
While he shouldn't have been selected when we did, that doesn't make him a bad player just because he doesn't measure up to peoples expectations.
As I see it.....last year he played totally out of position, ergo partially the reason for his suckitude. The other part of the reason is that he just was possibly overrated. Now he seems to be doing a competent job; but, I don't think he is going to be getting any votes for the Pro Bowl....which, quite frankly is what we expected from him....Pro Bowl DB performance. Getting mid-range NFL player performance is what we are getting...which is, I guess, what we will have to be satisfied with.
As I see it.....last year he played totally out of position, ergo partially the reason for his suckitude. The other part of the reason is that he just was possibly overrated. Now he seems to be doing a competent job; but, I don't think he is going to be getting any votes for the Pro Bowl....which, quite frankly is what we expected from him....Pro Bowl DB performance. Getting mid-range NFL player performance is what we are getting...which is, I guess, what we will have to be satisfied with.
Sometimes being only satisfied with is what you get. Look at Gerrard Warren. We drafted him at #3 overall? Nope,he wasn't a Warren Sapp, but he did go on to play maybe 13years as a starter in the league. Had we drafted him at #20, people would think he had a good career as a solid tackle. It's not his fault he was drafted early.. You don't play 13 years and not be pretty good.
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Because he's the only player this board micro-analyzes?
Why not take a verbal axe to Kirksey? to Collins? Both of these guys have looked like they should be cut, which is just a bit of a deviation from the contracts they signed.
Why not tear apart Hubbard, who is playing more like the glorified swing tackle he was in Pitt? And spending no cash on LT.. is generating the results one would expect.
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
I agree.
While he shouldn't have been selected when we did, that doesn't make him a bad player just because he doesn't measure up to peoples expectations.
As I see it.....last year he played totally out of position, ergo partially the reason for his suckitude. The other part of the reason is that he just was possibly overrated. Now he seems to be doing a competent job; but, I don't think he is going to be getting any votes for the Pro Bowl....which, quite frankly is what we expected from him....Pro Bowl DB performance. Getting mid-range NFL player performance is what we are getting...which is, I guess, what we will have to be satisfied with.
As I see it.....last year he played totally out of position, ergo partially the reason for his suckitude. The other part of the reason is that he just was possibly overrated. Now he seems to be doing a competent job; but, I don't think he is going to be getting any votes for the Pro Bowl....which, quite frankly is what we expected from him....Pro Bowl DB performance. Getting mid-range NFL player performance is what we are getting...which is, I guess, what we will have to be satisfied with.
I think you nailed it Gipper.
I'm fine with him at the strong safety position, he's competently playing the position and other weaknesses can be concentrated on for the next few seasons he's on the Browns.
If I had to put money on him ever being a Pro-Bowl caliber player, I'd say no. For a first-rounder, this is disappointing, but he should provide average to possibly somewhat above average starting caliber play. That's nothing to sneeze at.
And let's be honest, if he played for Tennessee, South Carolina or Oregon State or if Woody went to any other school we wouldn't talk about Peppers a 1/10th that we do... ?
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Because he's the only player this board micro-analyzes?
Why not take a verbal axe to Kirksey? to Collins? Both of these guys have looked like they should be cut, which is just a bit of a deviation from the contracts they signed.
Why not tear apart Hubbard, who is playing more like the glorified swing tackle he was in Pitt? And spending no cash on LT.. is generating the results one would expect.
Because he's the only player this board micro-analyzes?
Why not take a verbal axe to Kirksey? to Collins? Both of these guys have looked like they should be cut, which is just a bit of a deviation from the contracts they signed.
Why not tear apart Hubbard, who is playing more like the glorified swing tackle he was in Pitt? And spending no cash on LT.. is generating the results one would expect.
Because those guys don’t have a specific poster on this board with a man crush who props their guy up every post he makes.
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Ward, Randall and Peppers are three of our highest rated players and they will all be back under contract, as will Mitchell and Carrie.
Love to get another stud opposite Ward, but Tackle, WR. DT, OLB are also needs, and we can use another pass rusher.
It all depends on who the head coach is, who his coordinators are, how we play out the season, where we drafft and who we sign in free agency ... so that's why I don't play the draft game until April.
Z
Zombo said:
Ward, Randall and Peppers are three of our highest rated players and they will all be back under contract, as will Mitchell and Carrie.
Z
I just looked up the contract situation for these guys. I thought we exercised the 5th year option for Randall for this year, but the option is for next year. Pretty hefty pay raise next year for Randall at just over $9 mil. Wouldn’t mind seeing a restructure/extension for him.
Mitchell signed a pretty team friendly 3 year deal and Carrie a less friendly 4 year deal, and of course Ward and Peppers are still under their rookie contracts.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/damarious-randall-16754/
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/terrance-mitchell-14665/
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As I see it.....last year he played totally out of position, ergo partially the reason for his suckitude. The other part of the reason is that he just was possibly overrated. Now he seems to be doing a competent job; but, I don't think he is going to be getting any votes for the Pro Bowl....which, quite frankly is what we expected from him....Pro Bowl DB performance. Getting mid-range NFL player performance is what we are getting...which is, I guess, what we will have to be satisfied with.
I think you nailed it Gipper.
I'm fine with him at the strong safety position, he's competently playing the position and other weaknesses can be concentrated on for the next few seasons he's on the Browns.
If I had to put money on him ever being a Pro-Bowl caliber player, I'd say no. For a first-rounder, this is disappointing, but he should provide average to possibly somewhat above average starting caliber play. That's nothing to sneeze at.
And let's be honest, if he played for Tennessee, South Carolina or Oregon State or if Woody went to any other school we wouldn't talk about Peppers a 1/10th that we do... ?
I think you nailed it Gipper.
I'm fine with him at the strong safety position, he's competently playing the position and other weaknesses can be concentrated on for the next few seasons he's on the Browns.
If I had to put money on him ever being a Pro-Bowl caliber player, I'd say no. For a first-rounder, this is disappointing, but he should provide average to possibly somewhat above average starting caliber play. That's nothing to sneeze at.
And let's be honest, if he played for Tennessee, South Carolina or Oregon State or if Woody went to any other school we wouldn't talk about Peppers a 1/10th that we do... ?
Nope nope nope. It has nothing to do with where he played in college. Nothing. All of the overanalyzation, negative comments, harassing in public.. all legitimate and not based on where he played. Also Shmuck Michigan. Though that has nothing to do with this player. Definitely not
..................
I'm gonna defend the guy when there's BS posted on here. But there's no need if people like our OP don't post threads just to Sheet on him. I don't initiate that. Certain posters will take that and craft their own narrative. Oh well.
If there is other unwarranted hate on here, I'll call that out too. But as others have stated, it's clearly focused on one guy.
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