targeting the secondary in the draft....
-
Peppers has been doing a good job in the strong safety position.
Was he worth a first rounder? No, not at all. His production at a position made less important in a passing league could have been found by a competent 4th rounder.
That isn't Peppers fault. He's doing a good job.
position made less important in a passing league could have been found by a competent 4th rounder.
I disagree and I will give you my reason.
The modern safety that Peppers was drafted in the mold of is being asked to play nickel backer, often times getting man on looks with slot receivers and TE's. Then quite differently might play a more traditional role, attacking the LoS and creating that 8 man front. Depending on scheme he can be the vice or run force player. So either he secures the tackle as it is spilled to him or he turns everything back inside to pursuit. Then there is being asked to play back on a hash in coverages ranging from 1/2, 1/4, 1/3 field reads or straight man coverage.
New SS is an important position because it is a crucial matchup piece in the right defense. However it is manned by undersized LB's or oversized safety tweeners at the collegiate level. The role is very common now, so much like oversized WR's that become TE's... There is great value to be found outside of the first round.
-
I agree.
While he shouldn't have been selected when we did, that doesn't make him a bad player just because he doesn't measure up to peoples expectations.
I agree.
While he shouldn't have been selected when we did, that doesn't make him a bad player just because he doesn't measure up to peoples expectations.
As I see it.....last year he played totally out of position, ergo partially the reason for his suckitude. The other part of the reason is that he just was possibly overrated. Now he seems to be doing a competent job; but, I don't think he is going to be getting any votes for the Pro Bowl....which, quite frankly is what we expected from him....Pro Bowl DB performance. Getting mid-range NFL player performance is what we are getting...which is, I guess, what we will have to be satisfied with.
-
Here's an idea: Draft this punter. He just set a new NCAA mark and depending upon how he does in the last game against LSU, he is on pace to break the all-time single season punting average. He leads in the Ray Guy Award too.
-When Braden Mann connected on a 60-yard punt in the first quarter, he broke the NCAA single-season record of 60+-yard punts with 15.
Here's an idea: Draft this punter. He just set a new NCAA mark and depending upon how he does in the last game against LSU, he is on pace to break the all-time single season punting average. He leads in the Ray Guy Award too.
-When Braden Mann connected on a 60-yard punt in the first quarter, he broke the NCAA single-season record of 60+-yard punts with 15.
Aggie fag.
-
Peppers has been doing a good job in the strong safety position.
Was he worth a first rounder? No, not at all. His production at a position made less important in a passing league could have been found by a competent 4th rounder.
That isn't Peppers fault. He's doing a good job.
Peppers has been doing a good job in the strong safety position.
Was he worth a first rounder? No, not at all. His production at a position made less important in a passing league could have been found by a competent 4th rounder.
That isn't Peppers fault. He's doing a good job.
Here's the thing, inexperienced QBs of an NFL Offense tend to do best when their Coordinator includes some of the plays they excelled at in college (ie; Cam Newton, DeSahun Watson, Carson Wentz, etc). The same thing should apply to a QB of an NFL defense. For example, when Williams lined up Peppers in another area code/Toronto as a rookie FS - it was like asking him to be fluent speaking a foreign language immediately and watching fans call him a bust for the inability to do so. His #1 critic (Taco) predicting he'd suck wanted no parts of hearing excuses especially in lieu of hearing people telling him he was so right. So, when Williams moved Peppers up closer to the line of scrimmage and gave him a role more similar to what he did at Michigan - GUESS who played his best 2 games as a rookie? Did you ever wonder why Josh Cribbs was way better at taking the shotgun snap from Center and running the ball than he was at playing WR? Maybe, just maybe, he had 3-4 years of experience (and practice makes perfect) doing this specific role in college to the extent it created a more comfortable niche for him.
So, now that there was some degree of momentum with Peppers at the end of 2017 - Williams still preferred a guy better suited to play FS which was added to his deck of cards with the trade for Randall in 2018. Okay, no problem as long as we understand Peppers has 1 less year of NFL experience (which is 0 experience) at playing SS than Kindred had. In essence, Peppers has had to learn 2 completely different positions in just the 2 years he's been here to shed some light on why there has been a 2nd but expedited learning curve here. Shouldn't we be happy to see him making a play like he made against Atlanta shy of the goal line to set up and ignite the goal line stand? He also had a similar tackle vrs the Jets on 4th down that ended their drive. The time share with Kindred doesn't have to mean he sucks. He's going to make mistakes in his first year in another new gig - that doesn't have to mean he sucks either. Unless one wants him to or needs him to... Right Taco? Taco?
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
position made less important in a passing league could have been found by a competent 4th rounder.
I disagree and I will give you my reason.
The modern safety that Peppers was drafted in the mold of is being asked to play nickel backer, often times getting man on looks with slot receivers and TE's. Then quite differently might play a more traditional role, attacking the LoS and creating that 8 man front. Depending on scheme he can be the vice or run force player. So either he secures the tackle as it is spilled to him or he turns everything back inside to pursuit. Then there is being asked to play back on a hash in coverages ranging from 1/2, 1/4, 1/3 field reads or straight man coverage.
New SS is an important position because it is a crucial matchup piece in the right defense. However it is manned by undersized LB's or oversized safety tweeners at the collegiate level. The role is very common now, so much like oversized WR's that become TE's... There is great value to be found outside of the first round.
I disagree and I will give you my reason.
The modern safety that Peppers was drafted in the mold of is being asked to play nickel backer, often times getting man on looks with slot receivers and TE's. Then quite differently might play a more traditional role, attacking the LoS and creating that 8 man front. Depending on scheme he can be the vice or run force player. So either he secures the tackle as it is spilled to him or he turns everything back inside to pursuit. Then there is being asked to play back on a hash in coverages ranging from 1/2, 1/4, 1/3 field reads or straight man coverage.
New SS is an important position because it is a crucial matchup piece in the right defense. However it is manned by undersized LB's or oversized safety tweeners at the collegiate level. The role is very common now, so much like oversized WR's that become TE's... There is great value to be found outside of the first round.
Well said. Anyone that is actually watching the games can see all of the roles they're having Pep (and Kindred) play. It's the Swiss army knife a creative DC can use to get a matchup. What myself, and others, said when we drafted him. A player that can go from blitzing, setting the edge, covering TEs, covering slot WRs, and covering deep. Not a flashy position. It fits with the evolution of the NFL to more hybrid positions. The draft value of that position is up for debate.
-
Peppers has been doing a good job in the strong safety position.
Was he worth a first rounder? No, not at all. His production at a position made less important in a passing league could have been found by a competent 4th rounder.
That isn't Peppers fault. He's doing a good job.
Here's the thing, inexperienced QBs of an NFL Offense tend to do best when their Coordinator includes some of the plays they excelled at in college (ie; Cam Newton, DeSahun Watson, Carson Wentz, etc). The same thing should apply to a QB of an NFL defense. For example, when Williams lined up Peppers in another area code/Toronto as a rookie FS - it was like asking him to be fluent speaking a foreign language immediately and watching fans call him a bust for the inability to do so. His #1 critic (Taco) predicting he'd suck wanted no parts of hearing excuses especially in lieu of hearing people telling him he was so right. So, when Williams moved Peppers up closer to the line of scrimmage and gave him a role more similar to what he did at Michigan - GUESS who played his best 2 games as a rookie? Did you ever wonder why Josh Cribbs was way better at taking the shotgun snap from Center and running the ball than he was at playing WR? Maybe, just maybe, he had 3-4 years of experience (and practice makes perfect) doing this specific role in college to the extent it created a more comfortable niche for him.
So, now that there was some degree of momentum with Peppers at the end of 2017 - Williams still preferred a guy better suited to play FS which was added to his deck of cards with the trade for Randall in 2018. Okay, no problem as long as we understand Peppers has 1 less year of NFL experience (which is 0 experience) at playing SS than Kindred had. In essence, Peppers has had to learn 2 completely different positions in just the 2 years he's been here to shed some light on why there has been a 2nd but expedited learning curve here. Shouldn't we be happy to see him making a play like he made against Atlanta shy of the goal line to set up and ignite the goal line stand? He also had a similar tackle vrs the Jets on 4th down that ended their drive. The time share with Kindred doesn't have to mean he sucks. He's going to make mistakes in his first year in another new gig - that doesn't have to mean he sucks either. Unless one wants him to or needs him to... Right Taco? Taco?
Here's the thing, inexperienced QBs of an NFL Offense tend to do best when their Coordinator include some of the plays they excelled at in college (ie; Cam Newton, DeSahun Watson, Carson Wentz, etc). The same thing should apply to a QB of an NFL defense. For example, when Williams lined up Peppers in another area code/Toronto as a rookie FS - it was like asking him to be fluent speaking a foreign language immediately and watching fans call him a bust for the inability to do so. His #1 critic (Taco) predicting he'd suck wanted no parts of hearing excuses especially in lieu of hearing people telling him he was so right. So, when Williams moved Peppers up closer to the line of scrimmage and gave him a role more similar to what he did at Michigan - GUESS who played his best 2 games as a rookie? Did you ever wonder why Josh Cribbs was way better at taking the shotgun snap from Center and running the ball than he was at playing WR? Maybe, just maybe, he had 3-4 years of experience (and practice makes perfect) doing this specific role in college to the extent it created a more comfortable niche for him.
So, now that there was some degree of momentum with Peppers at the end of 2017 - Williams still preferred a guy better suited to play FS which was added to his deck of cards with the trade for Randall in 2018. Okay, no problem as long as we understand Peppers has 1 less year of NFL experience (which is 0 experience) at playing SS than Kindred had. In essence, Peppers has had to learn 2 completely different positions in just the 2 years he's been here to shed some light on why there has been a 2nd but expedited learning curve here. Shouldn't we be happy to see him making a play like he made against Atlanta shy of the goal line to set up and ignite the goal line stand? He also had a similar tackle vrs the Jets on 4th down that ended their drive. The time share with Kindred doesn't have to mean he sucks. He's going to make mistakes in his first year in another new gig - that doesn't have to mean he sucks either. Unless one wants him to or needs him to... Right Taco? Taco?
No, he's trash and has always been trash since he was at shitty dumb Michigan, which also sucks, but my evaluation has nothing to do with that....
It's also worth noting that, while Kindred and Pep are splitting some amount of snaps on defense, both of them are playing a ton of special teams snaps.
Finally, since we're talking about previous experience, as I mentioned when we drafted him, Pep had maybe two years at this position in college. Depending on how you look at it. He took an NFL hit to help the team out and he knew that.
-
Here's the thing, inexperienced QBs of an NFL Offense tend to do best when their Coordinator include some of the plays they excelled at in college (ie; Cam Newton, DeSahun Watson, Carson Wentz, etc). The same thing should apply to a QB of an NFL defense. For example, when Williams lined up Peppers in another area code/Toronto as a rookie FS - it was like asking him to be fluent speaking a foreign language immediately and watching fans call him a bust for the inability to do so. His #1 critic (Taco) predicting he'd suck wanted no parts of hearing excuses especially in lieu of hearing people telling him he was so right. So, when Williams moved Peppers up closer to the line of scrimmage and gave him a role more similar to what he did at Michigan - GUESS who played his best 2 games as a rookie? Did you ever wonder why Josh Cribbs was way better at taking the shotgun snap from Center and running the ball than he was at playing WR? Maybe, just maybe, he had 3-4 years of experience (and practice makes perfect) doing this specific role in college to the extent it created a more comfortable niche for him.
So, now that there was some degree of momentum with Peppers at the end of 2017 - Williams still preferred a guy better suited to play FS which was added to his deck of cards with the trade for Randall in 2018. Okay, no problem as long as we understand Peppers has 1 less year of NFL experience (which is 0 experience) at playing SS than Kindred had. In essence, Peppers has had to learn 2 completely different positions in just the 2 years he's been here to shed some light on why there has been a 2nd but expedited learning curve here. Shouldn't we be happy to see him making a play like he made against Atlanta shy of the goal line to set up and ignite the goal line stand? He also had a similar tackle vrs the Jets on 4th down that ended their drive. The time share with Kindred doesn't have to mean he sucks. He's going to make mistakes in his first year in another new gig - that doesn't have to mean he sucks either. Unless one wants him to or needs him to... Right Taco? Taco?
No, he's trash and has always been trash since he was at shitty dumb Michigan, which also sucks, but my evaluation has nothing to do with that....
It's also worth noting that, while Kindred and Pep are splitting some amount of snaps on defense, both of them are playing a ton of special teams snaps.
Finally, since we're talking about previous experience, as I mentioned when we drafted him, Pep had maybe two years at this position in college. Depending on how you look at it. He took an NFL hit to help the team out and he knew that.
No, he's trash and has always been trash since he was at shitty dumb Michigan, which also sucks, but my evaluation has nothing to do with that....
It's also worth noting that, while Kindred and Pep are splitting some amount of snaps on defense, both of them are playing a ton of special teams snaps.
Finally, since we're talking about previous experience, as I mentioned when we drafted him, Pep had maybe two years at this position in college. Depending on how you look at it. He took an NFL hit to help the team out and he knew that.
Why is this average player the only guy you ever talk about?
-
I agree.
While he shouldn't have been selected when we did, that doesn't make him a bad player just because he doesn't measure up to peoples expectations.
As I see it.....last year he played totally out of position, ergo partially the reason for his suckitude. The other part of the reason is that he just was possibly overrated. Now he seems to be doing a competent job; but, I don't think he is going to be getting any votes for the Pro Bowl....which, quite frankly is what we expected from him....Pro Bowl DB performance. Getting mid-range NFL player performance is what we are getting...which is, I guess, what we will have to be satisfied with.
As I see it.....last year he played totally out of position, ergo partially the reason for his suckitude. The other part of the reason is that he just was possibly overrated. Now he seems to be doing a competent job; but, I don't think he is going to be getting any votes for the Pro Bowl....which, quite frankly is what we expected from him....Pro Bowl DB performance. Getting mid-range NFL player performance is what we are getting...which is, I guess, what we will have to be satisfied with.
Sometimes being only satisfied with is what you get. Look at Gerrard Warren. We drafted him at #3 overall? Nope,he wasn't a Warren Sapp, but he did go on to play maybe 13years as a starter in the league. Had we drafted him at #20, people would think he had a good career as a solid tackle. It's not his fault he was drafted early.. You don't play 13 years and not be pretty good.
-
Because he's the only player this board micro-analyzes?
Why not take a verbal axe to Kirksey? to Collins? Both of these guys have looked like they should be cut, which is just a bit of a deviation from the contracts they signed.
Why not tear apart Hubbard, who is playing more like the glorified swing tackle he was in Pitt? And spending no cash on LT.. is generating the results one would expect.
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
I agree.
While he shouldn't have been selected when we did, that doesn't make him a bad player just because he doesn't measure up to peoples expectations.
As I see it.....last year he played totally out of position, ergo partially the reason for his suckitude. The other part of the reason is that he just was possibly overrated. Now he seems to be doing a competent job; but, I don't think he is going to be getting any votes for the Pro Bowl....which, quite frankly is what we expected from him....Pro Bowl DB performance. Getting mid-range NFL player performance is what we are getting...which is, I guess, what we will have to be satisfied with.
As I see it.....last year he played totally out of position, ergo partially the reason for his suckitude. The other part of the reason is that he just was possibly overrated. Now he seems to be doing a competent job; but, I don't think he is going to be getting any votes for the Pro Bowl....which, quite frankly is what we expected from him....Pro Bowl DB performance. Getting mid-range NFL player performance is what we are getting...which is, I guess, what we will have to be satisfied with.
I think you nailed it Gipper.
I'm fine with him at the strong safety position, he's competently playing the position and other weaknesses can be concentrated on for the next few seasons he's on the Browns.
If I had to put money on him ever being a Pro-Bowl caliber player, I'd say no. For a first-rounder, this is disappointing, but he should provide average to possibly somewhat above average starting caliber play. That's nothing to sneeze at.
And let's be honest, if he played for Tennessee, South Carolina or Oregon State or if Woody went to any other school we wouldn't talk about Peppers a 1/10th that we do... ?
-
Because he's the only player this board micro-analyzes?
Why not take a verbal axe to Kirksey? to Collins? Both of these guys have looked like they should be cut, which is just a bit of a deviation from the contracts they signed.
Why not tear apart Hubbard, who is playing more like the glorified swing tackle he was in Pitt? And spending no cash on LT.. is generating the results one would expect.
Because he's the only player this board micro-analyzes?
Why not take a verbal axe to Kirksey? to Collins? Both of these guys have looked like they should be cut, which is just a bit of a deviation from the contracts they signed.
Why not tear apart Hubbard, who is playing more like the glorified swing tackle he was in Pitt? And spending no cash on LT.. is generating the results one would expect.
Because those guys don’t have a specific poster on this board with a man crush who props their guy up every post he makes.
-
Ward, Randall and Peppers are three of our highest rated players and they will all be back under contract, as will Mitchell and Carrie.
Love to get another stud opposite Ward, but Tackle, WR. DT, OLB are also needs, and we can use another pass rusher.
It all depends on who the head coach is, who his coordinators are, how we play out the season, where we drafft and who we sign in free agency ... so that's why I don't play the draft game until April.
Z
Zombo said:
Ward, Randall and Peppers are three of our highest rated players and they will all be back under contract, as will Mitchell and Carrie.
Z
I just looked up the contract situation for these guys. I thought we exercised the 5th year option for Randall for this year, but the option is for next year. Pretty hefty pay raise next year for Randall at just over $9 mil. Wouldn’t mind seeing a restructure/extension for him.
Mitchell signed a pretty team friendly 3 year deal and Carrie a less friendly 4 year deal, and of course Ward and Peppers are still under their rookie contracts.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/damarious-randall-16754/
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/terrance-mitchell-14665/
-
As I see it.....last year he played totally out of position, ergo partially the reason for his suckitude. The other part of the reason is that he just was possibly overrated. Now he seems to be doing a competent job; but, I don't think he is going to be getting any votes for the Pro Bowl....which, quite frankly is what we expected from him....Pro Bowl DB performance. Getting mid-range NFL player performance is what we are getting...which is, I guess, what we will have to be satisfied with.
I think you nailed it Gipper.
I'm fine with him at the strong safety position, he's competently playing the position and other weaknesses can be concentrated on for the next few seasons he's on the Browns.
If I had to put money on him ever being a Pro-Bowl caliber player, I'd say no. For a first-rounder, this is disappointing, but he should provide average to possibly somewhat above average starting caliber play. That's nothing to sneeze at.
And let's be honest, if he played for Tennessee, South Carolina or Oregon State or if Woody went to any other school we wouldn't talk about Peppers a 1/10th that we do... ?
I think you nailed it Gipper.
I'm fine with him at the strong safety position, he's competently playing the position and other weaknesses can be concentrated on for the next few seasons he's on the Browns.
If I had to put money on him ever being a Pro-Bowl caliber player, I'd say no. For a first-rounder, this is disappointing, but he should provide average to possibly somewhat above average starting caliber play. That's nothing to sneeze at.
And let's be honest, if he played for Tennessee, South Carolina or Oregon State or if Woody went to any other school we wouldn't talk about Peppers a 1/10th that we do... ?
Nope nope nope. It has nothing to do with where he played in college. Nothing. All of the overanalyzation, negative comments, harassing in public.. all legitimate and not based on where he played. Also Shmuck Michigan. Though that has nothing to do with this player. Definitely not
..................
I'm gonna defend the guy when there's BS posted on here. But there's no need if people like our OP don't post threads just to Sheet on him. I don't initiate that. Certain posters will take that and craft their own narrative. Oh well.
If there is other unwarranted hate on here, I'll call that out too. But as others have stated, it's clearly focused on one guy.
-
I think you nailed it Gipper.
I'm fine with him at the strong safety position, he's competently playing the position and other weaknesses can be concentrated on for the next few seasons he's on the Browns.
If I had to put money on him ever being a Pro-Bowl caliber player, I'd say no. For a first-rounder, this is disappointing, but he should provide average to possibly somewhat above average starting caliber play. That's nothing to sneeze at.
And let's be honest, if he played for Tennessee, South Carolina or Oregon State or if Woody went to any other school we wouldn't talk about Peppers a 1/10th that we do... ?
Nope nope nope. It has nothing to do with where he played in college. Nothing. All of the overanalyzation, negative comments, harassing in public.. all legitimate and not based on where he played. Also Shmuck Michigan. Though that has nothing to do with this player. Definitely not
..................
I'm gonna defend the guy when there's BS posted on here. But there's no need if people like our OP don't post threads just to Sheet on him. I don't initiate that. Certain posters will take that and craft their own narrative. Oh well.
If there is other unwarranted hate on here, I'll call that out too. But as others have stated, it's clearly focused on one guy.
Nope nope nope. It has nothing to do with where he played in college. Nothing. All of the overanalyzation, negative comments, harassing in public.. all legitimate and not based on where he played. Also Shmuck Michigan. Though that has nothing to do with this player. Definitely not
..................
I'm gonna defend the guy when there's BS posted on here. But there's no need if people like our OP don't post threads just to Sheet on him. I don't initiate that. Certain posters will take that and craft their own narrative. Oh well.
If there is other unwarranted hate on here, I'll call that out too. But as others have stated, it's clearly focused on one guy.
The OP probably just gave an honest assessment of his poor play in the past. But you don’t really want an honest assessment. You just want us all to powder his tushy.
-
Thought this was a draft topic...? ... Couldn't find a woodpecker.
-
Terrance Mitchell returns from IR.Could play Panthers.. https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2018/11/browns-cornerback-terrance-mitchell-designated-to-return-from-injured-reserve.html#incart_river_index Derek Willies may return just in time at Denver? ?
-
I know injuries have ravaged us there, but I'd argue(even without that) secondary has to be our biggest area of upgrade.
On many snaps, we have multiple guys out there who simply should not be playng meaningful snaps in th nfl. Mahomes could have thrown for 500 today had he wanted to. We have guys who can't play in space. Which in the secondary in 2018 is just asking to be attacked.
Peppers is unplayable on a decent defense. Another safety(or two...hardly been blown away be randall who granted has been hurt a lot) to get him off the field every play next year is a must. Our non-ward corners are terrible with terrible ball skills.
If we don't address the corner or safety position through FA or trade, I would select a safety second round and a corner first round.
I know injuries have ravaged us there, but I'd argue(even without that) secondary has to be our biggest area of upgrade.
On many snaps, we have multiple guys out there who simply should not be playng meaningful snaps in th nfl. Mahomes could have thrown for 500 today had he wanted to. We have guys who can't play in space. Which in the secondary in 2018 is just asking to be attacked.
Peppers is unplayable on a decent defense. Another safety(or two...hardly been blown away be randall who granted has been hurt a lot) to get him off the field every play next year is a must. Our non-ward corners are terrible with terrible ball skills.
If we don't address the corner or safety position through FA or trade, I would select a safety second round and a corner first round.
I think it is like soup. I think pass coverage needs a few ingredients. The addition of a badazz DT or even DE whoncan get after the QB, makes Garrett and Ogbah even more effective. Another decent LB also helps shorten how much time opposing qbs have. It changes their play calling too. A great pass rush helps the secondary.
I think the Browns are close to finishing rheir defe sive "soup".
I am more concerned about Sunday. The bye week came at a bad time from a momentum point of vviews sI am comfortable we will draft well.
The Cleveland Browns have the hardest hit players in the NFL -
As I see it.....last year he played totally out of position, ergo partially the reason for his suckitude. The other part of the reason is that he just was possibly overrated. Now he seems to be doing a competent job; but, I don't think he is going to be getting any votes for the Pro Bowl....which, quite frankly is what we expected from him....Pro Bowl DB performance. Getting mid-range NFL player performance is what we are getting...which is, I guess, what we will have to be satisfied with.
I think you nailed it Gipper.
I'm fine with him at the strong safety position, he's competently playing the position and other weaknesses can be concentrated on for the next few seasons he's on the Browns.
If I had to put money on him ever being a Pro-Bowl caliber player, I'd say no. For a first-rounder, this is disappointing, but he should provide average to possibly somewhat above average starting caliber play. That's nothing to sneeze at.
And let's be honest, if he played for Tennessee, South Carolina or Oregon State or if Woody went to any other school we wouldn't talk about Peppers a 1/10th that we do... ?
I think you nailed it Gipper.
I'm fine with him at the strong safety position, he's competently playing the position and other weaknesses can be concentrated on for the next few seasons he's on the Browns.
If I had to put money on him ever being a Pro-Bowl caliber player, I'd say no. For a first-rounder, this is disappointing, but he should provide average to possibly somewhat above average starting caliber play. That's nothing to sneeze at.
And let's be honest, if he played for Tennessee, South Carolina or Oregon State or if Woody went to any other school we wouldn't talk about Peppers a 1/10th that we do... ?
Well said Dutch and Gips about Peppers.
In fairness to Woody, I remember him not overrating Peppers'. I think he's merely defending some unfair criticism he reads. If the guy went to Ohio State - wouldn't some Ohio State fans be doing the same (on a board that has quite a few of them - myself included)?
Peppers didn't draft himself. And this isn't the kind of guy we have to worry about taking plays off and cutting corners as much as growing pains. After playing a unique defensive role at Michigan - he's played 2 different Safety positions in 2 years here = 2 different learning curves (where he's sharing time with a guy that already has starting experience at the position in Williams' defense). Just as he improved at the end of his rookie year - we're seeing him improve a little faster at his SS position.
As far as making predictions about guys' limitations - let's leave that for Taco. The Nick Chubb that's way too slow to get excited about sure looked fast in the SEC, Indy Combines, and during his 92 yard run vrs ATL as well as his 3 carries for 105 yards vrs Oakland (where the only thing that ended 3 of the runs was the goal line). FWIW, can you really be slow if you're in the State Finals for the 100 meter dash in the state of Georgia as a senior in high school? Just a few reasons why we won't see Taco posting until this team loses again....
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
I know injuries have ravaged us there, but I'd argue(even without that) secondary has to be our biggest area of upgrade.
On many snaps, we have multiple guys out there who simply should not be playng meaningful snaps in th nfl. Mahomes could have thrown for 500 today had he wanted to. We have guys who can't play in space. Which in the secondary in 2018 is just asking to be attacked.
Peppers is unplayable on a decent defense. Another safety(or two...hardly been blown away be randall who granted has been hurt a lot) to get him off the field every play next year is a must. Our non-ward corners are terrible with terrible ball skills.
If we don't address the corner or safety position through FA or trade, I would select a safety second round and a corner first round.
I think it is like soup. I think pass coverage needs a few ingredients. The addition of a badazz DT or even DE whoncan get after the QB, makes Garrett and Ogbah even more effective. Another decent LB also helps shorten how much time opposing qbs have. It changes their play calling too. A great pass rush helps the secondary.
I think the Browns are close to finishing rheir defe sive "soup".
I am more concerned about Sunday. The bye week came at a bad time from a momentum point of vviews sI am comfortable we will draft well.
I think it is like soup. I think pass coverage needs a few ingredients. The addition of a badazz DT or even DE whoncan get after the QB, makes Garrett and Ogbah even more effective. Another decent LB also helps shorten how much time opposing qbs have. It changes their play calling too. A great pass rush helps the secondary.
I think the Browns are close to finishing rheir defe sive "soup".
I am more concerned about Sunday. The bye week came at a bad time from a momentum point of vviews sI am comfortable we will draft well.
What's going on here? I'm agreeing with you again. Just so I don't freak you out with all this Kumbaya and cyber fanny pat stuff - get your asss to the Dollar Store or Walmart and buy some batteries for that eggshausted speeeeel checker of your's... In fact, make sure you cut in front of everyone and announce "I'M GHOOLIE AND YOU AIN'T SHITTT" while doing so you goofey old bastard...
Yeah, an ideal pass rush is a secondary's best friend. That said, I've seen some examples of vice versa like in our first 3 games where our pass rush was getting to Brees, Roethlisberger and Darnold with Mitchell and Ward tightly contesting the short/quick throws (that used to be gimmes with our previous corners in 2017). End result? We're off to a great start pressuring the QBs into turnovers and sacks. Since we lost Mitchell during the Oakland game - opponents have tamed our pass rush while Williams has had to vary the coverage to the drop off in talent replacing Mitchell. If Williams is protecting a corner via scheme - we're back to being more vulnerable to the quick throws that kept our pass rushers 1-1.5 steps from getting to the QB back on 28 occasions Williams counted in 2017. The very need to go Denzel Ward at CB over Bradley Chubb at DE at #4 overall and add 3 veteran corners was to enable our pass rushers to get to the QB more frequently. BUT, when 1 of the upgrades to the CB position got injured - the changes in coverage/scheme have handcuffed our pass rush some. Mitchell returns for our final 4 games so it'll be interesting to see the dynamic return if he comes back at the same level he was playing at. He was looking like a rising star as early as blanketing Landry into frustration induced fisticuffs on Hard Knocks. That, or he had some killer good mother jokes Landry wasn't used to...
Can you imagine if we gave Hanford Dixon and Frank Minnifield pass rushers like Garrett on the edge and Ogunjobi inside? The Chip Banks that was supposed to be our Lawrence Taylor only had 4.5 sacks never quite giving Marty what Derrick Thomas blessed him with off the edge in KC. That said, no names like our backup/part time NT David Puzzuoli (6 sacks) inside and Reggie Camp (7 sacks)outside were our biggest beneficiaries of aggressive bump and run coverage of our Corners on our 12 win team in 86. Those 2 corners erased the quick throws but against Denver - we didn't have a Derrick Thomas to prevent Elway from the escape and improvise that killed us. Elway beat KC too but not nearly as frequently as he erased our post seasons with Bud Carson and Marty. Let's not get sidetracked on all the Marty stuff though in lieu of the topic at hand.
I've seen other examples of 2 great corners enable pass rushes to get to the QB like Jax last year in particular. If you're thinking then what changed this year? Last week, I learned their starting corners have only played together in the first 2 games where Jax started off 2-0 before they played well enough to frustrate Ben for 3 quarters that Bortles was unable to build on the 16 point lead or possess the ball for any length of time late with.
Other examples? Revis and Cromartie helped a decent (not great) front 7 for the Jets get to the QB the year they got to the AFC Championship Game vrs Pitt with Mark Sanchez as their QB, Rex Ryan as HC and I think Pettine was their DC at the time.
This one is kind of a toss up because Von Miller gets to QBs regardless of his corners. That said, when teams were paying Miller some extra attention - it sure did help to have 2 Pro Bowl Corners Talib and Harris. Now the QBs that wanted to quick throw themselves out of worry of Von Miller - could not do so as Cam Newton and others learned... That's really the only recent lineup they had that produced a SB Championship so I gotta think that specific tandem of CBs set up the ideal sic em, sock em and sack em for SB MVP Von Miller other seasons haven't quite aligned up there...
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
I think you nailed it Gipper.
I'm fine with him at the strong safety position, he's competently playing the position and other weaknesses can be concentrated on for the next few seasons he's on the Browns.
If I had to put money on him ever being a Pro-Bowl caliber player, I'd say no. For a first-rounder, this is disappointing, but he should provide average to possibly somewhat above average starting caliber play. That's nothing to sneeze at.
And let's be honest, if he played for Tennessee, South Carolina or Oregon State or if Woody went to any other school we wouldn't talk about Peppers a 1/10th that we do... ?
Well said Dutch and Gips about Peppers.
In fairness to Woody, I remember him not overrating Peppers'. I think he's merely defending some unfair criticism he reads. If the guy went to Ohio State - wouldn't some Ohio State fans be doing the same (on a board that has quite a few of them - myself included)?
Peppers didn't draft himself. And this isn't the kind of guy we have to worry about taking plays off and cutting corners as much as growing pains. After playing a unique defensive role at Michigan - he's played 2 different Safety positions in 2 years here = 2 different learning curves (where he's sharing time with a guy that already has starting experience at the position in Williams' defense). Just as he improved at the end of his rookie year - we're seeing him improve a little faster at his SS position.
As far as making predictions about guys' limitations - let's leave that for Taco. The Nick Chubb that's way too slow to get excited about sure looked fast in the SEC, Indy Combines, and during his 92 yard run vrs ATL as well as his 3 carries for 105 yards vrs Oakland (where the only thing that ended 3 of the runs was the goal line). FWIW, can you really be slow if you're in the State Finals for the 100 meter dash in the state of Georgia as a senior in high school? Just a few reasons why we won't see Taco posting until this team loses again....
Well said Dutch and Gips about Peppers.
In fairness to Woody, I remember him not overrating Peppers'. I think he's merely defending some unfair criticism he reads. If the guy went to Ohio State - wouldn't some Ohio State fans be doing the same (on a board that has quite a few of them - myself included)?
Peppers didn't draft himself. And this isn't the kind of guy we have to worry about taking plays off and cutting corners as much as growing pains. After playing a unique defensive role at Michigan - he's played 2 different Safety positions in 2 years here = 2 different learning curves (where he's sharing time with a guy that already has starting experience at the position in Williams' defense). Just as he improved at the end of his rookie year - we're seeing him improve a little faster at his SS position.
As far as making predictions about guys' limitations - let's leave that for Taco. The Nick Chubb that's way too slow to get excited about sure looked fast in the SEC, Indy Combines, and during his 92 yard run vrs ATL as well as his 3 carries for 105 yards vrs Oakland (where the only thing that ended 3 of the runs was the goal line). FWIW, can you really be slow if you're in the State Finals for the 100 meter dash in the state of Georgia as a senior in high school? Just a few reasons why we won't see Taco posting until this team loses again....
Well said all around
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login