IMO Our def scheme sucks...
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why do you continually use total defense
1) i didnt just use tot d, i also talked about pass and rush D. U can only put so much "context" into yds given up on the ground and in the air. Over the course of 16 games total def is the final word.
2) what metric would u use then? Perhaps how many mean looks or insults were given to the qb across the line pre snap?
2) what metric would u use then? Perhaps how many mean looks or insults were given to the qb across the line pre snap?
When ya get some time, here's a good place to start. It's advanced metrics, but it's a normalized stat of how teams stack up against one another, rather than bulk stats. Don't get me wrong, bulk stats are useful and important, but they really don't tell much of a story by themselves. DVOA attempts to quantify those individual bulk stats into a normalized overall efficiency.
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why do you continually use total defense
1) i didnt just use tot d, i also talked about pass and rush D. U can only put so much "context" into yds given up on the ground and in the air. Over the course of 16 games total def is the final word.
2) what metric would u use then? Perhaps how many mean looks or insults were given to the qb across the line pre snap?
1) i didnt just use tot d, i also talked about pass and rush D. U can only put so much "context" into yds given up on the ground and in the air. Over the course of 16 games total def is the final word.
2) what metric would u use then? Perhaps how many mean looks or insults were given to the qb across the line pre snap?
DVOA is a much better stat for measuring the overall effectiveness of a defense.
The Browns D finished with a -2.5%, good for 12th in the NFL. In 2017, they ranked 17th.
On the flip side, our O finished ranked 18th, up from dead last in 2017.
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You do know what the read option is right?
What kind of read are we talking? IZ? OZ? Veer? Inverted Veer? Speed option? Are we reading an End? A tackle? A backer? Who is the pitch man? Any built in pass option with that? How far do you want to take this before you have to consult google....?
My sarcasm was from your "hit the QB" comment... Lamar was hit plenty of times and also did a good job at protecting himself. Speaking in generalities and poor assumptions tends to irk me.
What kind of read are we talking? IZ? OZ? Veer? Inverted Veer? Speed option? Are we reading an End? A tackle? A backer? Who is the pitch man? Any built in pass option with that? How far do you want to take this before you have to consult google....?
My sarcasm was from your "hit the QB" comment... Lamar was hit plenty of times and also did a good job at protecting himself.
Simpler point... the RPO is not the old "option".
In the old run option the QB is fair game for any "clean" hit after pitching the ball, even under today's rules.
Not so in the RPO where the QB is in the pocket where when he "pulls the ball" either:
- passes and is afforded all the current game's protections, or
- runs in which case, if he made the proper read, no defender is in a position to make a hit.
Oops.. I see bjh already made this point...
Meh.... Flag me for "piling on".
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Your guy's rose colored glasses are the direct result of Baker taking over the team. Had he not, that defense would have completely folded by midseason. They would have been on the field forever. But if you objectively look at the defense, it's worse than last year and spent far fewer snaps on the field cause we finally got an offense worth a damn. The secondary is building something for sure, it's not like Im completely down on them. The talent at certain spots is absolutely there...this "should" have easily been a top 15 defense. The only reason I can conceive of why it wasn't are these weird hybrid looks I've been pointing out for prob 2 months now. They weren't fooling anyone and it looked like it wasn't putting our talented players in positions to make plays. That's on the DC, period. I could let Sunday go if it was the first time we got run over and it was our first look at a pro RO offense blah blah blah.....but we were near dead last against the run and you can't have that if you want a defense that supports the offense. That concept should not have to be explained to any of you.
Your guy's rose colored glasses are the direct result of Baker taking over the team. Had he not, that defense would have completely folded by midseason. They would have been on the field forever. But if you objectively look at the defense, it's worse than last year and spent far fewer snaps on the field cause we finally got an offense worth a damn. The secondary is building something for sure, it's not like Im completely down on them. The talent at certain spots is absolutely there...this "should" have easily been a top 15 defense. The only reason I can conceive of why it wasn't are these weird hybrid looks I've been pointing out for prob 2 months now. They weren't fooling anyone and it looked like it wasn't putting our talented players in positions to make plays. That's on the DC, period. I could let Sunday go if it was the first time we got run over and it was our first look at a pro RO offense blah blah blah.....but we were near dead last against the run and you can't have that if you want a defense that supports the offense. That concept should not have to be explained to any of you.
Now you're just sticking your fingers in your ears and loudly going "LaLaLaLa... La".
How can you do that and type at the same time?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
What kind of read are we talking? IZ? OZ? Veer? Inverted Veer? Speed option? Are we reading an End? A tackle? A backer? Who is the pitch man? Any built in pass option with that? How far do you want to take this before you have to consult google....?
My sarcasm was from your "hit the QB" comment... Lamar was hit plenty of times and also did a good job at protecting himself.
Simpler point... the RPO is not the old "option".
In the old run option the QB is fair game for any "clean" hit after pitching the ball, even under today's rules.
Not so in the RPO where the QB is in the pocket where when he "pulls the ball" either:
- passes and is afforded all the current game's protections, or
- runs in which case, if he made the proper read, no defender is in a position to make a hit.
Oops.. I see bjh already made this point...
Meh.... Flag me for "piling on".
Simpler point... the RPO is not the old "option".
In the old run option the QB is fair game for any "clean" hit after pitching the ball, even under today's rules.
Not so in the RPO where the QB is in the pocket where when he "pulls the ball" either:
- passes and is afforded all the current game's protections, or
- runs in which case, if he made the proper read, no defender is in a position to make a hit.
Oops.. I see bjh already made this point...
Meh.... Flag me for "piling on".
Have to take into consideration RPO's with pulls and rollouts/sprint outs. Don't think QB'a are afforded the same protection under the rules at that point.
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Simpler point... the RPO is not the old "option".
In the old run option the QB is fair game for any "clean" hit after pitching the ball, even under today's rules.
Not so in the RPO where the QB is in the pocket where when he "pulls the ball" either:
- passes and is afforded all the current game's protections, or
- runs in which case, if he made the proper read, no defender is in a position to make a hit.
Oops.. I see bjh already made this point...
Meh.... Flag me for "piling on".
Have to take into consideration RPO's with pulls and rollouts/sprint outs. Don't think QB'a are afforded the same protection under the rules at that point.
Have to take into consideration RPO's with pulls and rollouts/sprint outs. Don't think QB'a are afforded the same protection under the rules at that point.
True... same as a standard PAP bootleg where once outside the pocket some protections, e.g., going low on a tackle, are eliminated. However, others such as late, unnecessary pushes to the ground after the pass is away are still flagged.
That said... I haven't really seen much of that action at the pro level, tia.
You did bring to mind the one "old school" option BLT ran late in Week 17... the pitch was muffed... lol... too complex I guess.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Have to take into consideration RPO's with pulls and rollouts/sprint outs. Don't think QB'a are afforded the same protection under the rules at that point.
True... same as a standard PAP bootleg where once outside the pocket some protections, e.g., going low on a tackle, are eliminated. However, others such as late, unnecessary pushes to the ground after the pass is away are still flagged.
That said... I haven't really seen much of that action at the pro level, tia.
You did bring to mind the one "old school" option BLT ran late in Week 17... the pitch was muffed... lol... too complex I guess.
True... same as a standard PAP bootleg where once outside the pocket some protections, e.g., going low on a tackle, are eliminated. However, others such as late, unnecessary pushes to the ground after the pass is away are still flagged.
That said... I haven't really seen much of that action at the pro level, tia.
You did bring to mind the one "old school" option BLT ran late in Week 17... the pitch was muffed... lol... too complex I guess.
I haven't seen anything like that at the pro level. But Iowa State ran it to a treat in their bowl game. Point being, if Lamar fails to make unheard of improvements as a passer by next year then the Ravens will be looking for every wrinkle possible to float their offense.
Just watching that game last week I could see a couple passes where Jackson was simply 'scanning' for an open receiver and not quite understanding what was in front of him. Weeden-esque
As for the easy speed option that was muffed...? I guess some things can just be 'too' easy. ?
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True... same as a standard PAP bootleg where once outside the pocket some protections, e.g., going low on a tackle, are eliminated. However, others such as late, unnecessary pushes to the ground after the pass is away are still flagged.
That said... I haven't really seen much of that action at the pro level, tia.
You did bring to mind the one "old school" option BLT ran late in Week 17... the pitch was muffed... lol... too complex I guess.
I haven't seen anything like that at the pro level. But Iowa State ran it to a treat in their bowl game. Point being, if Lamar fails to make unheard of improvements as a passer by next year then the Ravens will be looking for every wrinkle possible to float their offense.
Just watching that game last week I could see a couple passes where Jackson was simply 'scanning' for an open receiver and not quite understanding what was in front of him. Weeden-esque
As for the easy speed option that was muffed...? I guess some things can just be 'too' easy. ?
Just watching that game last week I could see a couple passes where Jackson was simply 'scanning' for an open receiver and not quite understanding what was in front of him. Weeden-esque
As for the easy speed option that was muffed...? I guess some things can just be 'too' easy. ?
The same guy who scouts told to be a wide receiver. He played in a simpler system vs simpler defenses in college. Those reads will come easier with time.
I think he will be in the league a while just due to his speed/explosiveness/durability. Like a smaller, quicker Cam Newton.
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Just watching that game last week I could see a couple passes where Jackson was simply 'scanning' for an open receiver and not quite understanding what was in front of him. Weeden-esque
As for the easy speed option that was muffed...? I guess some things can just be 'too' easy. ?
The same guy who scouts told to be a wide receiver. He played in a simpler system vs simpler defenses in college. Those reads will come easier with time.
I think he will be in the league a while just due to his speed/explosiveness/durability. Like a smaller, quicker Cam Newton.
The same guy who scouts told to be a wide receiver. He played in a simpler system vs simpler defenses in college. Those reads will come easier with time.
I think he will be in the league a while just due to his speed/explosiveness/durability. Like a smaller, quicker Cam Newton.
As I wrote earlier... it's a race between Jackson developing his head and it getting knocked off.
The latter maybe easier to say than do. Watched parts of the game again and he was not only very elusive, but his acceleration was amazing and he was bigger/taller than I remember him at Louisville. Nowhere near Newton size, but taller and strong enough to accelerate thru some arm tackles.
Difficult target able to take some punishment, but it's the one he doesn't see coming that will get him.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Just watching that game last week I could see a couple passes where Jackson was simply 'scanning' for an open receiver and not quite understanding what was in front of him. Weeden-esque
As for the easy speed option that was muffed...? I guess some things can just be 'too' easy. ?
The same guy who scouts told to be a wide receiver. He played in a simpler system vs simpler defenses in college. Those reads will come easier with time.
I think he will be in the league a while just due to his speed/explosiveness/durability. Like a smaller, quicker Cam Newton.
The same guy who scouts told to be a wide receiver. He played in a simpler system vs simpler defenses in college. Those reads will come easier with time.
I think he will be in the league a while just due to his speed/explosiveness/durability. Like a smaller, quicker Cam Newton.
Reads don't just become easy when the defense is designed to attack your strengths. Right now Lamar is in an offense that masks his severe deficiency as a passer. Which is why if Balt draws NE I'll be watching. Few coaches scheme against mobile passers better than Bill. They have the interior presence to run lighter box counts and still force Lamar lateral on keep or make him fight through contact on the inside Designs.
And it isn't so much can Lamar improve. He absolutely can and probably will. Instead it is - can Lamar improve to the point of being a franchise passerpasser while staying alive? I have severe doubts and there is a large amount of evidence that would point to 'no'.
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The same guy who scouts told to be a wide receiver. He played in a simpler system vs simpler defenses in college. Those reads will come easier with time.
I think he will be in the league a while just due to his speed/explosiveness/durability. Like a smaller, quicker Cam Newton.
As I wrote earlier... it's a race between Jackson developing his head and it getting knocked off.
The latter maybe easier to say than do. Watched parts of the game again and he was not only very elusive, but his acceleration was amazing and he was bigger/taller than I remember him at Louisville. Nowhere near Newton size, but taller and strong enough to accelerate thru some arm tackles.
Difficult target able to take some punishment, but it's the one he doesn't see coming that will get him.
Difficult target able to take some punishment, but it's the one he doesn't see coming that will get him.
His neck is built really thick. Maybe you’re right about him getting hit but I think he’ll be able to handle it.
Also while moving that fast it’s hard to get a good shot on the QB.
Reads don't just become easy when the defense is designed to attack your strengths. Right now Lamar is in an offense that masks his severe deficiency as a passer. Which is why if Balt draws NE I'll be watching. Few coaches scheme against mobile passers better than Bill. They have the interior presence to run lighter box counts and still force Lamar lateral on keep or make him fight through contact on the inside Designs.
And it isn't so much can Lamar improve. He absolutely can and probably will. Instead it is - can Lamar improve to the point of being a franchise passer? I her severe doubts and there is a large amount of evidence that would point to 'no'.
He is literally faster than most guys on any front 7..as well as lot of safeties.. he is a matchup nightmare because his arm is to be respected. He hits holes and cuts like an RB.
When it comes to reads.. time will tell. If he can develop as a passer, it would be very bad news for the AFCN..
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Difficult target able to take some punishment, but it's the one he doesn't see coming that will get him.
His neck is built really thick. Maybe you’re right about him getting hit but I think he’ll be able to handle it.
Also while moving that fast it’s hard to get a good shot on the QB.
Reads don't just become easy when the defense is designed to attack your strengths. Right now Lamar is in an offense that masks his severe deficiency as a passer. Which is why if Balt draws NE I'll be watching. Few coaches scheme against mobile passers better than Bill. They have the interior presence to run lighter box counts and still force Lamar lateral on keep or make him fight through contact on the inside Designs.
And it isn't so much can Lamar improve. He absolutely can and probably will. Instead it is - can Lamar improve to the point of being a franchise passer? I her severe doubts and there is a large amount of evidence that would point to 'no'.
He is literally faster than most guys on any front 7..as well as lot of safeties.. he is a matchup nightmare because his arm is to be respected. He hits holes and cuts like an RB.
When it comes to reads.. time will tell. If he can develop as a passer, it would be very bad news for the AFCN..
His neck is built really thick. Maybe you’re right about him getting hit but I think he’ll be able to handle it.
Also while moving that fast it’s hard to get a good shot on the QB.
He is literally faster than most guys on any front 7..as well as lot of safeties.. he is a matchup nightmare because his arm is to be respected. He hits holes and cuts like an RB.
When it comes to reads.. time will tell. If he can develop as a passer, it would be very bad news for the AFCN..
That's cool, RG3 is still faster than any LB in the NFL and some safeties. I think you fail to understand this point - time and punishment is the enemy of any football player. Baltimore is asking their QB to double his contact rate and be a long-term franchise QB (10 years) That simply is unheard of and hard to imagine will happen in 2019.
Edit: I would also say Lamar is every bit as raw as Tebow was. RG3 had better passing mechanics so this makes the improvement curve that much more steep. You're starting at a lower point than most young QB's and the Ravens know that.
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Lamar got harbaugh his ext tho.
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Your guy's rose colored glasses are the direct result of Baker taking over the team. Had he not, that defense would have completely folded by midseason. They would have been on the field forever. But if you objectively look at the defense, it's worse than last year and spent far fewer snaps on the field cause we finally got an offense worth a damn. The secondary is building something for sure, it's not like Im completely down on them. The talent at certain spots is absolutely there...this "should" have easily been a top 15 defense. The only reason I can conceive of why it wasn't are these weird hybrid looks I've been pointing out for prob 2 months now. They weren't fooling anyone and it looked like it wasn't putting our talented players in positions to make plays. That's on the DC, period. I could let Sunday go if it was the first time we got run over and it was our first look at a pro RO offense blah blah blah.....but we were near dead last against the run and you can't have that if you want a defense that supports the offense. That concept should not have to be explained to any of you.
Now you're just sticking your fingers in your ears and loudly going "LaLaLaLa... La".
How can you do that and type at the same time?
Now you're just sticking your fingers in your ears and loudly going "LaLaLaLa... La".
How can you do that and type at the same time?
Ur right Our defense is so good. Its so good its near dead last in the nfl...no wait i mean its like 15th in some random obscure alternate universe where yards given up over the course of 16 games is not the measure anymore of a defense.
Im sure if dick butkus was listening in on this thread he'd be like now fuck me running whats this dvda business? Lols......this is what stats kunts have done to football. You can give up almost the most amt of yds in the entire NFL but someone will pipe up and say but we havent "contextualized" these yards. Is a yard really a yard? What is a yard afterall? Who says a yard is a yard? What is this arbitrary measure of distance? Who says more yards isnt better than less yards? I defy these archaic measures of defensive competence that rely simply on lining up and beating ur man. Pfffttttt
Lalalalalalalalalalalaa
??
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Now you're just sticking your fingers in your ears and loudly going "LaLaLaLa... La".
How can you do that and type at the same time?
Ur right Our defense is so good. Its so good its near dead last in the nfl...no wait i mean its like 15th in some random obscure alternate universe where yards given up over the course of 16 games is not the measure anymore of a defense.
Im sure if dick butkus was listening in on this thread he'd be like now fuck me running whats this dvda business? Lols......this is what stats kunts have done to football. You can give up almost the most amt of yds in the entire NFL but someone will pipe up and say but we havent "contextualized" these yards. Is a yard really a yard? What is a yard afterall? Who says a yard is a yard? What is this arbitrary measure of distance? Who says more yards isnt better than less yards? I defy these archaic measures of defensive competence that rely simply on lining up and beating ur man. Pfffttttt
Lalalalalalalalalalalaa
??
Ur right Our defense is so good. Its so good its near dead last in the nfl...no wait i mean its like 15th in some random obscure alternate universe where yards given up over the course of 16 games is not the measure anymore of a defense.
Im sure if dick butkus was listening in on this thread he'd be like now fuck me running whats this dvda business? Lols......this is what stats kunts have done to football. You can give up almost the most amt of yds in the entire NFL but someone will pipe up and say but we havent "contextualized" these yards. Is a yard really a yard? What is a yard afterall? Who says a yard is a yard? What is this arbitrary measure of distance? Who says more yards isnt better than less yards? I defy these archaic measures of defensive competence that rely simply on lining up and beating ur man. Pfffttttt
Lalalalalalalalalalalaa
??
Yeah, and I already pointed out by your same yardstick, Kansas City's defense is even worse than the Browns, and they're the #1 seed.
We're going to try to improve the defense this off season- so stop bitching about what happened in 2018.
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Difficult target able to take some punishment, but it's the one he doesn't see coming that will get him.
His neck is built really thick. Maybe you’re right about him getting hit but I think he’ll be able to handle it.
Also while moving that fast it’s hard to get a good shot on the QB.
Reads don't just become easy when the defense is designed to attack your strengths. Right now Lamar is in an offense that masks his severe deficiency as a passer. Which is why if Balt draws NE I'll be watching. Few coaches scheme against mobile passers better than Bill. They have the interior presence to run lighter box counts and still force Lamar lateral on keep or make him fight through contact on the inside Designs.
And it isn't so much can Lamar improve. He absolutely can and probably will. Instead it is - can Lamar improve to the point of being a franchise passer? I her severe doubts and there is a large amount of evidence that would point to 'no'.
He is literally faster than most guys on any front 7..as well as lot of safeties.. he is a matchup nightmare because his arm is to be respected. He hits holes and cuts like an RB.
When it comes to reads.. time will tell. If he can develop as a passer, it would be very bad news for the AFCN..
His neck is built really thick. Maybe you’re right about him getting hit but I think he’ll be able to handle it.
Also while moving that fast it’s hard to get a good shot on the QB.
He is literally faster than most guys on any front 7..as well as lot of safeties.. he is a matchup nightmare because his arm is to be respected. He hits holes and cuts like an RB.
When it comes to reads.. time will tell. If he can develop as a passer, it would be very bad news for the AFCN..
As I and others have said at this point, Jackson is essentially a running back, with below average passing skills. Comparing his accuracy to Mayfield's is a joke. As I pointed out at the rate he's ran the ball this year (nearly 100 yards per game) he'd be on pace to win the rushing title next year. That's just plain crazy to think it's sustainable.
And remember the physics equation. Force = Mass X Acceleration. The faster Lamar is moving, the bigger the hit he's going to take.
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Actually, I think you should consider this one...
E=1/2mv^2
The energy at impact is proportional to velocity squared...
??
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Actually, I think you should consider this one...
E=1/2mv^2
The energy at impact is proportional to velocity squared...
??
Actually, I think you should consider this one...
E=1/2mv^2
The energy at impact is proportional to velocity squared...
??
Is this math or physics
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Is this math or physics
Physics is essentially math to describe an event. In this case how much energy is created when two objects collide.
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Ur right Our defense is so good. Its so good its near dead last in the nfl...no wait i mean its like 15th in some random obscure alternate universe where yards given up over the course of 16 games is not the measure anymore of a defense.
Im sure if dick butkus was listening in on this thread he'd be like now fuck me running whats this dvda business? Lols......this is what stats kunts have done to football. You can give up almost the most amt of yds in the entire NFL but someone will pipe up and say but we havent "contextualized" these yards. Is a yard really a yard? What is a yard afterall? Who says a yard is a yard? What is this arbitrary measure of distance? Who says more yards isnt better than less yards? I defy these archaic measures of defensive competence that rely simply on lining up and beating ur man. Pfffttttt
Lalalalalalalalalalalaa
??
Yeah, and I already pointed out by your same yardstick, Kansas City's defense is even worse than the Browns, and they're the #1 seed.
We're going to try to improve the defense this off season- so stop bitching about what happened in 2018.
Yeah, and I already pointed out by your same yardstick, Kansas City's defense is even worse than the Browns, and they're the #1 seed.
We're going to try to improve the defense this off season- so stop bitching about what happened in 2018.
because of Mahommes. The first team that controls the ball and runs all over them, while still scoring points at the end of those long drives..that's the crucial part....that team will win. Peyton Manning only had one ring with the Colts because the prolific pass rushing defense with mathis and freeney couldn't stop the run come playoff time. That's been written about countless times, that's not "my" analysis. Infact that's how I became so adamant about having a defense that can at least serviceably stop the run....because I watched a defense nerf the career of who imo is the greatest QB of all time.
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