Cribbs a Holdout? - NFL.Com
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I would find it really hard to believe either cribbs or heiden would holdout both are team players and couldnt live with the idea their team needs them and they arent there..
Many fans myself included believe Cribbs deserves a big ol raise and he signed a really bad deal but mangini deserves the right to determine his worth in his scheme and with the wedge banned we dont know how this will effect cribbs or if it will at all i think with patience both sides will get what they want....
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With the right coach Cribbs could be a dangerous weapon and I think Mangini fits the role.
I don't think he deserves a bigger contract yet but I hope they can get something worked out.
I agree. As a special team player he is paid well. It isn't like he is a Hester who also caught 50 passes for the team.
Play this year in a expanded role, then see where the contract numbers go.
I would point blank tell him and his agent we won't change the numbers at this point, he won't be traded, so he can play or sit...the choice is his. Negotiations over.
I agree. As a special team player he is paid well. It isn't like he is a Hester who also caught 50 passes for the team.
Play this year in a expanded role, then see where the contract numbers go.
I would point blank tell him and his agent we won't change the numbers at this point, he won't be traded, so he can play or sit...the choice is his. Negotiations over.
While I agree with the notion that he is paid well as a special teams player, I cannot agree with the Hester reference. Hester got his new contract before he made 50 catches for the Bears. He did not do that until this past season, in which he was already playing for his new hefty salary. He got paid that big salary for doing what he did as a return man. Cribbs does just as much as a return man for the Browns as Hester did for the Bears. Now, Cribbs has already been assured an expanded role. He also has already stated that he will not hold out of training camp. He hopes to get something done by the start of the regular season. I believe that shows good faith on his part.
I think that this season should be played under the existing contract but with added incentives for the extra work he is being asked to put in. To tell the guy flat out that he can play or sit..."Negotiations over" does not look good to other players around the league...future free agents. Why would anyone in the future be eager to sign in Cleveland if they already know that, should they far exceed expectations, there will never be any type of negotiations for compensation? The way the NFL works is a little one sided. Teams can cut up a player's contract and not pay him just because they want to save cap-space...but a player has to honor the contract or not get paid. What are the repercussions for teams that violate a signed, legal contract? NOTHING!
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I agree. As a special team player he is paid well. It isn't like he is a Hester who also caught 50 passes for the team.
Play this year in a expanded role, then see where the contract numbers go.
I would point blank tell him and his agent we won't change the numbers at this point, he won't be traded, so he can play or sit...the choice is his. Negotiations over.
While I agree with the notion that he is paid well as a special teams player, I cannot agree with the Hester reference. Hester got his new contract before he made 50 catches for the Bears. He did not do that until this past season, in which he was already playing for his new hefty salary. He got paid that big salary for doing what he did as a return man. Cribbs does just as much as a return man for the Browns as Hester did for the Bears. Now, Cribbs has already been assured an expanded role. He also has already stated that he will not hold out of training camp. He hopes to get something done by the start of the regular season. I believe that shows good faith on his part.
I think that this season should be played under the existing contract but with added incentives for the extra work he is being asked to put in. To tell the guy flat out that he can play or sit..."Negotiations over" does not look good to other players around the league...future free agents. Why would anyone in the future be eager to sign in Cleveland if they already know that, should they far exceed expectations, there will never be any type of negotiations for compensation? The way the NFL works is a little one sided. Teams can cut up a player's contract and not pay him just because they want to save cap-space...but a player has to honor the contract or not get paid. What are the repercussions for teams that violate a signed, legal contract? NOTHING!
What are the repercussions for teams that violate a signed, legal contract? NOTHING!
Legal contract? I do think the CBA punishes a team for that. There is no getting off scott free, I can say that. It does favor the owners, but lets be honest - the NFLPA agreed to give stupid ass salaries and contract to players - unproven - coming out of the draft. They have some blame to bear as well. They wanted Free Agency, and with it came certain things they needed to give up.
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What are the repercussions for teams that violate a signed, legal contract? NOTHING!
Legal contract? I do think the CBA punishes a team for that. There is no getting off scott free, I can say that. It does favor the owners, but lets be honest - the NFLPA agreed to give stupid ass salaries and contract to players - unproven - coming out of the draft. They have some blame to bear as well. They wanted Free Agency, and with it came certain things they needed to give up.
Legal contract? I do think the CBA punishes a team for that. There is no getting off scott free, I can say that. It does favor the owners, but lets be honest - the NFLPA agreed to give stupid ass salaries and contract to players - unproven - coming out of the draft. They have some blame to bear as well. They wanted Free Agency, and with it came certain things they needed to give up.
What does free agency have to do with team owners not having to honor a players contract? The owners wanted a salary cap...they got it! There's the trade off for free-agency! Where is the job security for the players? As far as rookie salaries....I completely agree! Rookies are HIGHLY overpaid! They have proved nothing except that they can play well against other college students who, more often than not, will never play a down of pro football. But, again, what does that have to do with teams honoring player contracts. Players have to honor their sides, or not get paid. Owners can release a player and it won't hurt their wallets! The MLB has that part right. If you sign a contract, it needs to be honored by both sides!
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Legal contract? I do think the CBA punishes a team for that. There is no getting off scott free, I can say that. It does favor the owners, but lets be honest - the NFLPA agreed to give stupid ass salaries and contract to players - unproven - coming out of the draft. They have some blame to bear as well. They wanted Free Agency, and with it came certain things they needed to give up.
What does free agency have to do with team owners not having to honor a players contract? The owners wanted a salary cap...they got it! There's the trade off for free-agency! Where is the job security for the players? As far as rookie salaries....I completely agree! Rookies are HIGHLY overpaid! They have proved nothing except that they can play well against other college students who, more often than not, will never play a down of pro football. But, again, what does that have to do with teams honoring player contracts. Players have to honor their sides, or not get paid. Owners can release a player and it won't hurt their wallets! The MLB has that part right. If you sign a contract, it needs to be honored by both sides!
What does free agency have to do with team owners not having to honor a players contract? The owners wanted a salary cap...they got it! There's the trade off for free-agency! Where is the job security for the players? As far as rookie salaries....I completely agree! Rookies are HIGHLY overpaid! They have proved nothing except that they can play well against other college students who, more often than not, will never play a down of pro football. But, again, what does that have to do with teams honoring player contracts. Players have to honor their sides, or not get paid. Owners can release a player and it won't hurt their wallets! The MLB has that part right. If you sign a contract, it needs to be honored by both sides!
You seriously don't think the contracts are written in such a way that allows for the teams to "legally" get out of the contract? That's why there are signing bonuses and roster bonuses, etc. Its all a trade-off.
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What does free agency have to do with team owners not having to honor a players contract? The owners wanted a salary cap...they got it! There's the trade off for free-agency! Where is the job security for the players? As far as rookie salaries....I completely agree! Rookies are HIGHLY overpaid! They have proved nothing except that they can play well against other college students who, more often than not, will never play a down of pro football. But, again, what does that have to do with teams honoring player contracts. Players have to honor their sides, or not get paid. Owners can release a player and it won't hurt their wallets! The MLB has that part right. If you sign a contract, it needs to be honored by both sides!
You seriously don't think the contracts are written in such a way that allows for the teams to "legally" get out of the contract? That's why there are signing bonuses and roster bonuses, etc. Its all a trade-off.
You seriously don't think the contracts are written in such a way that allows for the teams to "legally" get out of the contract? That's why there are signing bonuses and roster bonuses, etc. Its all a trade-off.
Understood...But where is the "legal" way for a player to get out of the contract when he is clearly underpaid per league standards? The trade-off is a little lopsided there!
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You seriously don't think the contracts are written in such a way that allows for the teams to "legally" get out of the contract? That's why there are signing bonuses and roster bonuses, etc. Its all a trade-off.
Understood...But where is the "legal" way for a player to get out of the contract when he is clearly underpaid per league standards? The trade-off is a little lopsided there!
Understood...But where is the "legal" way for a player to get out of the contract when he is clearly underpaid per league standards? The trade-off is a little lopsided there!
How is he underpaid? He's making a mill a year to be a STer. He's wanting Hester type money without currently doing what Hester does. Hester got his money AFTER becoming a bigger part of the Bears offense. Lastly, no one forced him to sign the deal. If he was really worried about being underpaid two years after signing it, maybe his agent should have gotten a clause or two for incentives thrown in.
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Understood...But where is the "legal" way for a player to get out of the contract when he is clearly underpaid per league standards? The trade-off is a little lopsided there!
How is he underpaid? He's making a mill a year to be a STer. He's wanting Hester type money without currently doing what Hester does. Hester got his money AFTER becoming a bigger part of the Bears offense. Lastly, no one forced him to sign the deal. If he was really worried about being underpaid two years after signing it, maybe his agent should have gotten a clause or two for incentives thrown in.
How is he underpaid? He's making a mill a year to be a STer. He's wanting Hester type money without currently doing what Hester does. Hester got his money AFTER becoming a bigger part of the Bears offense. Lastly, no one forced him to sign the deal. If he was really worried about being underpaid two years after signing it, maybe his agent should have gotten a clause or two for incentives thrown in.
Hester signed his contract on 7/27/2008. Prior to that he had only 20 receptions on the offense. Cribbs already has 16 receptions. And Cribbs has a much bigger role as the QB in the Browns WildDawg....so not sure where you get that.
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Understood...But where is the "legal" way for a player to get out of the contract when he is clearly underpaid per league standards? The trade-off is a little lopsided there!
How is he underpaid? He's making a mill a year to be a STer. He's wanting Hester type money without currently doing what Hester does. Hester got his money AFTER becoming a bigger part of the Bears offense. Lastly, no one forced him to sign the deal. If he was really worried about being underpaid two years after signing it, maybe his agent should have gotten a clause or two for incentives thrown in.
How is he underpaid? He's making a mill a year to be a STer. He's wanting Hester type money without currently doing what Hester does. Hester got his money AFTER becoming a bigger part of the Bears offense. Lastly, no one forced him to sign the deal. If he was really worried about being underpaid two years after signing it, maybe his agent should have gotten a clause or two for incentives thrown in.
To add to what WPB was saying, Cribbs has had more kick return yards and more yards per return than Hester has over the past 3 seasons. All while keeping pace with him in TD's. Yes, Hester has the better punt return numbers, but not by much. And Cribbs has had a huge impact rushing the ball in comparison to Hester.
Oh yeah...how many tackles has Hester made on special teams? Cribbs blows him out of the water there too! Cribbs is much more valuable to the Browns than Hester is to Chicago. He does more and his overall stats are better than Hester's. Cribbs deserves more money than he is making, by far. By league standards, based on performance, he deserves at least as much as Hester. And now, the Browns coaching staff is asking him to do even more, by asking him to play on defense too? C'mon...give the guy a raise! They'll regret it if they trade him!
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Honestly, I believe what the Browns may be saying is "get into camp and prove you can be either a WR or a DB and we will pony up....until then you are mainly a ST".
That's how I would play it anyway.
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Latest update...sounds like the talks are at least ongoing!
Cribbs and the Browns still talking
Posted: July 24th, 2009 | Jason La Canfora | Tags: Brady Quinn, Cleveland Browns, contract, Derek Anderson, Eric Mangini, George Kokinis, holdout, Josh Cribbs
For the second time this week, officials from the Cleveland Browns and representatives for Pro Bowl return specialist Josh Cribbs held a conference call to discuss the player’s situation. The sides held their second conversation Thursday, according to a source, chatting for roughly three hours. The Browns and Cribbs are still scheduled to hold face-to-face meetings with the player, who has contributed to the team’s WildDawg formation as a quarterback and worked as a receiver and a defensive back. Cribbs did not take part in the conference call himself, sources said.
Cribbs, a wide receiver by trade, has been looking for the organization to be open to altering his contract, which has four years remaining, believing he has outperformed his level of compensation. Cribbs has been seriously considering holding out of the start of training camp, and a final decision on whether to report on time will come after the face-to-face meeting with team officials, the source said. The Browns, with a new coach (Eric Mangini) and general manager (George Kokinis), had been unwilling to change Cribbs’ deal. Mangini has a reputation as a hard-line guy, and this is one of many challenges facing him and his team, with the Browns also looking at a quarterback competition between Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn.
Cribbs, 26, was a college quarterback at Kent. He is in his fifth year after entering the league as an undrafted free agent.
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http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/07/25/cribbs-rep...a-happy-camper/
Cribbs Reporting to Browns, But Not A Happy Camper
Josh Cribbs will be in Cleveland this week and taking part in Browns training camp. We know that much in regards to the Pro Bowl return specialist from sources close to the player. Beyond that, however, much remains in limbo.
As we’ve reported (Steve Wyche was first on the story), Cribbs is unhappy with his contract and wants the Browns’ new front office and coaching staff to uphold a promise made the previous coach and general manager to re-work the final four years on his contract. That sentiment has not changed, according to sources, with Cribbs’s decision to attend camp not an indication that he’s a happy camper.
Cribbs, who made an impact in the WildDawg formation and plays receiver, remains prepared to sit out the start of the regular season barring some resolution regarding his contract, sources said. To this point coach Eric Mangini, who has significant power in that organization, has not been willing to alter Cribbs’s deal. Cribbs’s agents and the Browns spoke several times this week and will begin face-to-face meetings Thursday, sources said. Cribbs is hopeful that at some point between now and September the team will give him some additional incentives, triggers or achievable bonuses to sweeten his deal.
Cribbs is not seeking a Devin Hester contract, according to a source, and isn’t fixated on certain figures, but is fixated on procuring some additional compensation in one form or another.
So this saga will continue for at least a little while longer. Maybe the sides come to some sort of agreement Thursday that makes Cribbs content, but there is nothing forcing the Browns to do anything contractually in this circumstance, hence the stalemate. Both sides can make strong arguments, and we’ll keep monitoring it.
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Honestly, I believe what the Browns may be saying is "get into camp and prove you can be either a WR or a DB and we will pony up....until then you are mainly a ST".
That's how I would play it anyway.
Honestly, I believe what the Browns may be saying is "get into camp and prove you can be either a WR or a DB and we will pony up....until then you are mainly a ST".
That's how I would play it anyway.
My question is "why would we want Cribbs to be anything other than exactly what he has been?"
Cribbs has been a game-changer at PR/KR. Nobody will dispute this. Now take his closest comparison, Devin Hester, and see what Chicago did with him. Chicago moving Hester to WR (where is is absolutely pedestrian) from KR/PR (where he was an absolute game-changer) was a completely stupid move, to me, from the very beginning. So now, the Bears have another average receiver and far-from-Devin-Hester at KR/PR. How does Chicago feel this improved their team/justify this move??
I'd hate to see us do the same thing with Cribbs. We are deep enough at WR and DB to keep him at a place where he can actually make a difference in the game. Hopefully, Mangini/Kokinis are smart enough to realize this, too.
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I like Mangini's approach in this situation. If we want to be a hard-nosed, winning football team, he has to show that NO ONE is above the team. So, Cribbs does not like his contract? Too bad.
This is the classic example of players gouging a team when the team is a horrible spot. We only won FOUR games last year. Cribbs, you don't like it in Cleveland? You don't want to own up to the contract YOU SIGNED? If he holds out, I think that reflects the type of character, and importantly the culture we don't want on this team. Let's bring in some players who want to be here.
Just my .02.
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Hey, what happened to all the safety talk LOL?
"Let's see, he's gonna return punts, kickoffs, play WR, QB in the WildDawg, line up in the backfield, cover all kicks while being a gunner and start at safety."
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Hey, what happened to all the safety talk LOL?
"Let's see, he's gonna return punts, kickoffs, play WR, QB in the WildDawg, line up in the backfield, cover all kicks while being a gunner and start at safety."
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I like Mangini's approach in this situation. If we want to be a hard-nosed, winning football team, he has to show that NO ONE is above the team. So, Cribbs does not like his contract? Too bad.
This is the classic example of players gouging a team when the team is a horrible spot. We only won FOUR games last year. Cribbs, you don't like it in Cleveland? You don't want to own up to the contract YOU SIGNED? If he holds out, I think that reflects the type of character, and importantly the culture we don't want on this team. Let's bring in some players who want to be here.
Just my .02.
I like Mangini's approach in this situation. If we want to be a hard-nosed, winning football team, he has to show that NO ONE is above the team. So, Cribbs does not like his contract? Too bad.
This is the classic example of players gouging a team when the team is a horrible spot. We only won FOUR games last year. Cribbs, you don't like it in Cleveland? You don't want to own up to the contract YOU SIGNED? If he holds out, I think that reflects the type of character, and importantly the culture we don't want on this team. Let's bring in some players who want to be here.
Just my .02.
If he honestly didn't want to be here, he wouldn't report to camp. He wants to be here. He wants to play football here. He just wants, and deserves I might add, to be paid equal to what others like him in the league are making...example...Devin Hester. He has been the biggest difference maker on this team for the last 2 years. Why should he not ask for more money? He is, by league standards, underpaid. (I personally think that all athletes are overpaid, but I am arguing this point based on the going rates in the NFL.) Why is it that we all want players to take a pay cut or to renegotiate their contract when it would benefit the team...or the team can just cut the player and rip up his contract, but when a player, like Cribbs, feels that he is underpaid and wants a new or adjusted contract, we all think it is terrible?
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