Gerald McCoy/ Mike Daniels
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Yes, he's still top30, and would be solid but not spectacular.
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Ndamakong Suh is still available as a FA......he had a fairly productive year last year with the Rams. As a rotational DT....he could have value, at the right salary (and how much can he demand now?)
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Ndamakong Suh is still available as a FA......he had a fairly productive year last year with the Rams. As a rotational DT....he could have value, at the right salary (and how much can he demand now?)
Ndamakong Suh is still available as a FA......he had a fairly productive year last year with the Rams. As a rotational DT....he could have value, at the right salary (and how much can he demand now?)
he'll want a hefty price. He wont come to clev to be a rotation guy either.
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duke getting 5m this year, so it'd be an offset of 8m to have, literally, the best DL in the league. even at 31 he graded out very well last year, and as part of a rotation his usage should decrease a bit helping with health and longevity. ogun played injured for 6 games last year, out of necessity. that cannot happen again.
Are we willing to pay a larger price for a rotational player/part time starter?
ansah still hasnt signed anywhere? well, i was high on ansah before we signed vernon...ansah's starter money so not gonna pay that now. 9'ers are shopping siloman thomas who's got 2 more years left on rookie deal....dorsey oughta look at that.
Thomas is an interesting name. I know coaches love the redemption card and I'll admit I thought he would be good at the NFL level. Kid flashed all the tools at Stanford. Having said that, I don't think the Niners would want a 5th rounder for him and to that point - would he even beat out Zettel for the base end-interior slide guy sub package spot?
Thomas is an interesting name. I know coaches love the redemption card and I'll admit I thought he would be good at the NFL level. Kid flashed all the tools at Stanford. Having said that, I don't think the Niners would want a 5th rounder for him and to that point - would he even beat out Zettel for the base end-interior slide guy sub package spot?
I would think he would beat zettle. I was thoroughly underwhelmed by zettle last year...Thomas can develop here for 2 years on his rook contract. Working with myles and vernon might get him there.
i mean...we could lrob still do the mccoy trade with TB and give the 9'ers some 2nd or 3rd day pick. 9'ers might want to.just part with him on the cheap since they've got Bosa and Ford now.
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If the trade is Duke for McCoy we are going to need a 3rd running back after Chubb and Hilliard until Hunt returns
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Ndamakong Suh is still available as a FA......he had a fairly productive year last year with the Rams. As a rotational DT....he could have value, at the right salary (and how much can he demand now?)
he'll want a hefty price. He wont come to clev to be a rotation guy either.
he'll want a hefty price. He wont come to clev to be a rotation guy either.
Sorry....but that is what he is at this point in his career....whether he believes it or not. And he won't get nearly the money he thinks he deserves either.
I don't know what they get paid....but a rotational DT is what he is. If he was in such high demand, he would have been signed by now. Notwithstanding that, he could be a "piece" in the Browns DT room. But just that, a piece. (and that should apply to any NFL team unless there is one out there desperate to take him on as a centerpiece of their defensive line.)
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you tell Suh he's rotational gip
Suh played 1 season with the Rams for 14M..888 defensive snaps, 87.83% of them. Even 80 ST snaps.. Meanwhile, Bucs fans have all sorts of demands on this McCoy deal https://www.bucsnation.com/2019/4/30/18523785/buccaneers-cleveland-browns-potential-gerald-mccoy-trade (you don't matter) also C Kyle Friend was cut loose by Browns..so Some BoDy is coming?
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Still with all these Duke hefty prices? If Dorsey really wanted to trade him, last weekend was the right time.
Now we have Duke and a lower pick for McCoy and a higher pick. That makes zero sense, but now looking back I see who posted it (and some of the warped values previously).
As for the salary, it does matter when the Browns are already over, which hurts the left over money to sign the players in the next couple years.
I certainly think that Suh is more than a rotational piece now. He actually had s pretty good year last year. He just wasn't the best DT on their team. He isn't signed because he wants paid. But to say it proves he is just a piece because he hasn't signed, there are players over the years who have signed later because they were holding out to get the most money, really good players.
Solomon Thomas was a top 3 pick, I seriously doubt that 49ers would give him up for a 5th rounder. He would at the very least be in the rotation like is being talked about here. I could see him being traded, but I would be surprised if it's as low as a 5th
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you tell Suh he's rotational gip
Suh played 1 season with the Rams for 14M..888 defensive snaps, 87.83% of them. Even 80 ST snaps.. Meanwhile, Bucs fans have all sorts of demands on this McCoy deal https://www.bucsnation.com/2019/4/30/18523785/buccaneers-cleveland-browns-potential-gerald-mccoy-trade (you don't matter) also C Kyle Friend was cut loose by Browns..so Some BoDy is coming?
you tell Suh he's rotational gip
Suh played 1 season with the Rams for 14M..888 defensive snaps, 87.83% of them. Even 80 ST snaps.. Meanwhile, Bucs fans have all sorts of demands on this McCoy deal https://www.bucsnation.com/2019/4/30/18523785/buccaneers-cleveland-browns-potential-gerald-mccoy-trade (you don't matter) also C Kyle Friend was cut loose by Browns..so Some BoDy is coming?
Well....he may have been that before.....a mostly every down player....but I do not think he is that going into the future. But I understand that he will still want to be paid that. Many washed up players think they should still be getting top dollar.
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Bucs and Browns fan here.. Why would anyone trade for McCoy? Just wait... The Bucs need cap space to sign draft picks.. A large salary has to go and McCoy is no where near team facilities .
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Bucs and Browns fan here.. Why would anyone trade for McCoy? Just wait... The Bucs need cap space to sign draft picks.. A large salary has to go and McCoy is no where near team facilities .
Bucs and Browns fan here.. Why would anyone trade for McCoy? Just wait... The Bucs need cap space to sign draft picks.. A large salary has to go and McCoy is no where near team facilities .
Are you saying he may be dumped even without a trade?
Or how about this....a 6th rounder in 2021?
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Are you saying he may be dumped even without a trade?
Yep.
The Bucs need space just to sign rookies. General consensus is he and, or JPP are gone. They need approx 9-11 mil depending upon who you believe to sign their draft class.
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I would not trade any 2020 picks for this guy. The 2020 draft will be one of the deepest in recent memory.. there will be a starter or two drafted in round 4 next year.
Bucs clear McCoy's entire 13M salary off their books if they cut him before 6/1, which is probably what they'd do. The 13 is all base - no workout/roster/etc bonus, and none of it is guaranteed.
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I would not trade any 2020 picks for this guy. The 2020 draft will be one of the deepest in recent memory.. there will be a starter or two drafted in round 4 next year.
Bucs clear McCoy's entire 13M salary off their books if they cut him before 6/1, which is probably what they'd do. The 13 is all base - no workout/roster/etc bonus, and none of it is guaranteed.
I would not trade any 2020 picks for this guy. The 2020 draft will be one of the deepest in recent memory.. there will be a starter or two drafted in round 4 next year.
Bucs clear McCoy's entire 13M salary off their books if they cut him before 6/1, which is probably what they'd do. The 13 is all base - no workout/roster/etc bonus, and none of it is guaranteed.
Rumor of McCoy being a 2019 Cap casualty started back in January. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-gerald-mccoy-could-be-released-by-the-tampa-bay-buccaneers
As for his salary, it's also oversized for the player he is today. While still solidly above average, he is no longer the monster than finished out his rookie deal. And there are two more years on the deal... also non-guaranteed. Looks to be a prime restructure candidate... something our 2019 space would allow us to do.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Some twitter reports are saying this is progressing
Orange and Brown Rpt @TheOBR 37s38 seconds ago
MoreGerald McCoy to the
#Browns? One analyst would be stunned if it didn't happen https://buff.ly/2PLKPK9 -
I would not trade any 2020 picks for this guy. The 2020 draft will be one of the deepest in recent memory.. there will be a starter or two drafted in round 4 next year.
Bucs clear McCoy's entire 13M salary off their books if they cut him before 6/1, which is probably what they'd do. The 13 is all base - no workout/roster/etc bonus, and none of it is guaranteed.
Rumor of McCoy being a 2019 Cap casualty started back in January. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-gerald-mccoy-could-be-released-by-the-tampa-bay-buccaneers
As for his salary, it's also oversized for the player he is today. While still solidly above average, he is no longer the monster than finished out his rookie deal. And there are two more years on the deal... also non-guaranteed. Looks to be a prime restructure candidate... something our 2019 space would allow us to do.
Rumor of McCoy being a 2019 Cap casualty started back in January. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-gerald-mccoy-could-be-released-by-the-tampa-bay-buccaneers
As for his salary, it's also oversized for the player he is today. While still solidly above average, he is no longer the monster than finished out his rookie deal. And there are two more years on the deal... also non-guaranteed. Looks to be a prime restructure candidate... something our 2019 space would allow us to do.
Well said! Believe it or not, it was frequently brought up on local radio throughout 2018 when his career wear and tear was sidelining him once again. A big part of his depreciation on the field is he's never healthy enough to get back in some semblance of the football shape he used to be in. I'm thinking their FO pretty much had this in mind when they drafted Vita Vea out Cal in round 1 last year. The radio hosts are constantly reminding callers that making 6 Pro Bowls for the Bucs when healthy isn't exactly pond scum. I'm guessing social media isn't giving him the kinder, gentler either... Right now, the Bucs are so financially challenged in their cap that they can't sign anyone without removing McCoy's cap hit from what's being said. When their salary cap is at check mate with a 5-11 record, their fans gotta realize there's way bigger problems than 1 symptom (McCoy). They might have to put Carl Nassib in charge of their cap; and that ain't good...
All that said, I think we should go after him after Tampa has to cut him. He wouldn't start over Richardson or Ogunjobi; but he could give us reliable depth/rotation reps with fresh legs. I remember back in the 1978 when we had Greg Pruitt, Cleo Miller and a young Mike Pruitt - we signed a 31 year old Calvin Hill who many were calling Calvin Over-the-Hill due to his bad knees and overall wear and tear. However, whenever we called on him - he ended up contributing 7 TDs (6 pass 1 run), 623 yards from scrimmage and the most yards receiving per game from any of our RBs. He was a much better story here than his book cover promoted at the time. Maybe it's just the fan in me talking; but I think McCoy can bring a very similar reliability to the same career back to the wall situation Hill came out of. Reading and hearing all the hate after 6 Pro Bowl efforts puts a very talented football player back into a something to prove mentality. I wouldn't mind us being the beneficiary of that kind of thang.
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This would make all the sense in the browns world, why we did not draft a DT. Not much sense in TB. 1) Bucs did not draft or add a FA DT to replace McCoy. 2) Added 3 LB's in FA period. And grabbed the best LB in the draft Devin White to play behind McCoy to keep off said LB'ers. 3) Bucs drafted zero, much needed RB help either..McCoy is 31..
They drafted Vita Vea as DT last year in the firat round I believe.
They drafted Vita Vea as DT last year in the firat round I believe.
Exactly. They did draft DT Vita Vea in round 1 of 2018. Ironically, he had a nagging leg injury that kept him sidelined for the first 5-6 weeks or so. Then he had to gradually increase his reps. Near the end of the season - he started to look like the solid starter they hoped he'd be. More irony? He might even be better suited to play NT when they switch to a 3-4 under Todd Bowles in 2019. He's not Buster Hymen with the penetration; but he'll fill 2 gaps real good according to Miss Behavin...
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They drafted Vita Vea as DT last year in the firat round I believe.
Exactly. They did draft DT Vita Vea in round 1 of 2018. Ironically, he had a nagging leg injury that kept him sidelined for the first 5-6 weeks or so. Then he had to gradually increase his reps. Near the end of the season - he started to look like the solid starter they hoped he'd be. More irony? He might even be better suited to play NT when they switch to a 3-4 under Todd Bowles in 2019. He's not Buster Hymen with the penetration; but he'll fill 2 gaps real good according to Miss Behavin...
Exactly. They did draft DT Vita Vea in round 1 of 2018. Ironically, he had a nagging leg injury that kept him sidelined for the first 5-6 weeks or so. Then he had to gradually increase his reps. Near the end of the season - he started to look like the solid starter they hoped he'd be. More irony? He might even be better suited to play NT when they switch to a 3-4 under Todd Bowles in 2019. He's not Buster Hymen with the penetration; but he'll fill 2 gaps real good according to Miss Behavin...
This really doesn't matter so much anymore under Bowles. He's a 1gap aggressive disciple kind of like Rex Ryan minus being so rigid in his player assignments - Heck of a defensive mind.
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Exactly. They did draft DT Vita Vea in round 1 of 2018. Ironically, he had a nagging leg injury that kept him sidelined for the first 5-6 weeks or so. Then he had to gradually increase his reps. Near the end of the season - he started to look like the solid starter they hoped he'd be. More irony? He might even be better suited to play NT when they switch to a 3-4 under Todd Bowles in 2019. He's not Buster Hymen with the penetration; but he'll fill 2 gaps real good according to Miss Behavin...
This really doesn't matter so much anymore under Bowles. He's a 1gap aggressive disciple kind of like Rex Ryan minus being so rigid in his player assignments - Heck of a defensive mind.
This really doesn't matter so much anymore under Bowles. He's a 1gap aggressive disciple kind of like Rex Ryan minus being so rigid in his player assignments - Heck of a defensive mind.
Good point Tia! Bowles DOES use a lot of 1 gap in his 3-4 especially when he's had the personnel to green light it. For example, when he took over the DC position in Arizona - he made a lot of guys upfront really happy he didn't square peg the round hole Horton preferred to do all the time. Your better Coordinators don't stay married to 1 scheme for an alignment. That was a big reason he was hired by the Jets that got stale with Rex's preferred schematics in the 3-4. Bowles will vary the 1-gap vrs 2-gap schemes up front depending on personnel as well wide side of field/formations faced. Pettine said he didn't always agree with Rex when he was his DC either.
All that said, Vita Vea will be on the Nose in Tampa. Now I have to edit the rest because I got it all wrong yesterday. Vea isn't best suited for 2 gap Meat and Greet at line of scrimmage. He's actually best suited for 1 gap Beat and Eat in the backfield. Here's the pre-draft scouting report reflecting this:
Vita Vea Scouting Report
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Vita Vea, 6-5/332
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Defensive Tackle
- Washington
By Charlie Campbell
Strengths:
- Surprising athleticism
- Explosive defender
- Good instincts
- Very disruptive
- Physical force at the point of attack
- Tough run defender who can hold his gap
- Excellent run defender
- Good burst off the snap
- Has some pass-rushing skills
- Collapses the pocket
- Can destroys guards and centers with a bull rush
- Flashes speed to run by them
- Very strong
- Very quick for his size
- Closes well for a heavy tackle
- Ability to shed blocks
- Frees up edge rushers, linebackers
- Can play with good leverage
- Uses bull rush to push the pocket
- Perfect fit as a 3-4 nose tackle
- Good fit as a 4-3 tackle
- Eats up double teams
- Good motor
- Gives a second effort
- Awareness
- Upside
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Vita Vea, 6-5/332
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Are you saying he may be dumped even without a trade?
Yep.
The Bucs need space just to sign rookies. General consensus is he and, or JPP are gone. They need approx 9-11 mil depending upon who you believe to sign their draft class.
Yep.
The Bucs need space just to sign rookies. General consensus is he and, or JPP are gone. They need approx 9-11 mil depending upon who you believe to sign their draft class.
Indeed they do, maybe dump both. They're at a negative $13 million according to Spotrac, dumping McCoy at least clears that up. The scary thing from a Browns perspective is with all the (pricey) talent Dorsey brought in- is we can finally say "We're #1!!!" in active contract dollars. Not kidding.
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