Christian "morality"; Pastor refuses dying man a funeral because his son is gay
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You always have the option to "opt out" which is the decision you made (for now anyway).
I took the deal (lifeline) God offered and it was the best decision I ever made.
LOL! I think you forgot that you had no decision in this at all. God predestined you. Remember from our prior discussion??
LOL! I think you forgot that you had no decision in this at all. God predestined you. Remember from our prior discussion??
I'm glad you were paying attention Tex. Probably the best answer I heard to that was a minister who would reply "the door to the ark is open, get inside, get in the boat". It is not that we do not have free will but if God knows the future then he would know the decisions we will make. I don't see how you can get around that. If you are concerned about not being one of the elect you could do something right now to fix that couldn't you if you wanted to? Get in the boat.
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Have to appease sky wizard.
In the Christian faith God never uses force. What God does (among other things) is offer life after physical death to those who want it, but if you do want what is offered He does set the rules. You always have the option to "opt out" which is the decision you made (for now anyway). So (and this is a fact you have to admit) you will live a very short life at best (even if you live to be over 100, what is that compared to eternity?) and then go into a nothingness forever (and that is at best believing there is no place called hell).
I took the deal (lifeline) God offered and it was the best decision I ever made. I can say that I have lived this life to the fullest and God has saved the best for last...my future looks a whole lot brighter. And what did I have to give up for this deal? Nothing. It wasn't subtraction it was addition.
In the Christian faith God never uses force. What God does (among other things) is offer life after physical death to those who want it, but if you do want what is offered He does set the rules. You always have the option to "opt out" which is the decision you made (for now anyway). So (and this is a fact you have to admit) you will live a very short life at best (even if you live to be over 100, what is that compared to eternity?) and then go into a nothingness forever (and that is at best believing there is no place called hell).
I took the deal (lifeline) God offered and it was the best decision I ever made. I can say that I have lived this life to the fullest and God has saved the best for last...my future looks a whole lot brighter. And what did I have to give up for this deal? Nothing. It wasn't subtraction it was addition.
Or I spend my limited time on the Earth trying to make the most of it, not constrained by rules created by sand merchants from 2000 years ago.
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In the Christian faith God never uses force. What God does (among other things) is offer life after physical death to those who want it, but if you do want what is offered He does set the rules. You always have the option to "opt out" which is the decision you made (for now anyway). So (and this is a fact you have to admit) you will live a very short life at best (even if you live to be over 100, what is that compared to eternity?) and then go into a nothingness forever (and that is at best believing there is no place called hell).
I took the deal (lifeline) God offered and it was the best decision I ever made. I can say that I have lived this life to the fullest and God has saved the best for last...my future looks a whole lot brighter. And what did I have to give up for this deal? Nothing. It wasn't subtraction it was addition.
Or I spend my limited time on the Earth trying to make the most of it, not constrained by rules created by sand merchants from 2000 years ago.
Or I spend my limited time on the Earth trying to make the most of it, not constrained by rules created by sand merchants from 2000 years ago.
I made the most of my life. How many people can look back on their life and say they have no regrets? I can say that. So not only have I lived the best life possible in this life I have that future hope that you do not have.
Are there some constraints as a believer. Yes. We have a huge amount of freedom in our faith but it is freedom within a fence. My dog has total freedom in our house and she has a large fenced in back yard to roam. She is safe that way but if she gets out of the fence she could get hit by a car or attacked by another dog or stolen or any number of things. I am convinced the limited restraints we have are for our own good.
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LOL! I think you forgot that you had no decision in this at all. God predestined you. Remember from our prior discussion??
I'm glad you were paying attention Tex. Probably the best answer I heard to that was a minister who would reply "the door to the ark is open, get inside, get in the boat". It is not that we do not have free will but if God knows the future then he would know the decisions we will make. I don't see how you can get around that. If you are concerned about not being one of the elect you could do something right now to fix that couldn't you if you wanted to? Get in the boat.
I'm glad you were paying attention Tex. Probably the best answer I heard to that was a minister who would reply "the door to the ark is open, get inside, get in the boat". Is is not that we do not have free will but if God knows the future then he would know the decisions we will make. I don't see how you can get around that. If you are concerned about not being one of the elect you could do something right now to fix that couldn't you if you wanted to? Get in the boat.
Oh I've been in the boat a long, long time, but I don't believe in predestination or election at all. And I don't believe in hell either. I come by that honestly. One of my great great grandfathers wrote a 35 page treatise on the ridiculousness of a vengeful God who is supposed to be all loving way back in about 1840. He made many of the arguments about predestination that I make in fact. Why would you create a hell for beings that you create that are predestined to be there? Makes zero sense. Don't inflict them on the rest of us. Just send them straight there. They don't have free will anyway. He entitled it "Vindictive Punishment".?
I made the most of my life. How many people can look back on their life and say they have no regrets? I can say that. So not only have I lived the best life possible in this life I have that future hope that you do not have.
But now you are in big trouble by supporting the anti-Christ.? Better start getting in those regrets right away.
?
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Or I spend my limited time on the Earth trying to make the most of it, not constrained by rules created by sand merchants from 2000 years ago.
I made the most of my life. How many people can look back on their life and say they have no regrets? I can say that. So not only have I lived the best life possible in this life I have that future hope that you do not have.
Are there some constraints as a believer. Yes. We have a huge amount of freedom in our faith but it is freedom within a fence. My dog has total freedom in our house and she has a large fenced in back yard to roam. She is safe that way but if she gets out of the fence she could get hit by a car or attacked by another dog or stolen or any number of things. I am convinced the limited restraints we have are for our own good.
I made the most of my life. How many people can look back on their life and say they have no regrets? I can say that. So not only have I lived the best life possible in this life I have that future hope that you do not have.
Are there some constraints as a believer. Yes. We have a huge amount of freedom in our faith but it is freedom within a fence. My dog has total freedom in our house and she has a large fenced in back yard to roam. She is safe that way but if she gets out of the fence she could get hit by a car or attacked by another dog or stolen or any number of things. I am convinced the limited restraints we have are for our own good.
Comparing the religious to an easily lead house pet is something I think even Richard Dawkins would have avoided.
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I'm glad you were paying attention Tex. Probably the best answer I heard to that was a minister who would reply "the door to the ark is open, get inside, get in the boat". Is is not that we do not have free will but if God knows the future then he would know the decisions we will make. I don't see how you can get around that. If you are concerned about not being one of the elect you could do something right now to fix that couldn't you if you wanted to? Get in the boat.
Oh I've been in the boat a long, long time, but I don't believe in predestination or election at all. And I don't believe in hell either. I come by that honestly. One of my great great grandfathers wrote a 35 page treatise on the ridiculousness of a vengeful God who is supposed to be all loving way back in about 1840. He made many of the arguments about predestination that I make in fact. Why would you create a hell for beings that you create that are predestined to be there? Makes zero sense. Don't inflict them on the rest of us. Just send them straight there. They don't have free will anyway. He entitled it "Vindictive Punishment".?
I made the most of my life. How many people can look back on their life and say they have no regrets? I can say that. So not only have I lived the best life possible in this life I have that future hope that you do not have.
But now you are in big trouble by supporting the anti-Christ.? Better start getting in those regrets right away.
?
Oh I've been in the boat a long, long time, but I don't believe in predestination or election at all. And I don't believe in hell either. I come by that honestly. One of my great great grandfathers wrote a 35 page treatise on the ridiculousness of a vengeful God who is supposed to be all loving way back in about 1840. He made many of the arguments about predestination that I make in fact. Why would you create a hell for beings that you create that are predestined to be there? Makes zero sense. Don't inflict them on the rest of us. Just send them straight there. They don't have free will anyway. He entitled it "Vindictive Punishment".?
But now you are in big trouble by supporting the anti-Christ.? Better start getting in those regrets right away.
?
The hell the bible speaks of was never meant for human beings it was meant for satan and demonic beings. What most people don't understand is that people don't go to hell because of what they do, they go to hell because of what they are. Spiritually dead. They go to hell with their eyes wide open because they preferred hell to heaven. If the bible is correct the part of humans created in the image of God is the spirit part and that part (like God) was meant to last eternally. We die physically but our spirits live on and God has created a place for those eternal spirits after death. Either with Him or eternally separated from Him. No matter what hell is like eternal separation from God is enough for me to want to avoid it, I don't need the flames, worms and sulfur the bible speaks about.
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I made the most of my life. How many people can look back on their life and say they have no regrets? I can say that. So not only have I lived the best life possible in this life I have that future hope that you do not have.
Are there some constraints as a believer. Yes. We have a huge amount of freedom in our faith but it is freedom within a fence. My dog has total freedom in our house and she has a large fenced in back yard to roam. She is safe that way but if she gets out of the fence she could get hit by a car or attacked by another dog or stolen or any number of things. I am convinced the limited restraints we have are for our own good.
Comparing the religious to an easily lead house pet is something I think even Richard Dawkins would have avoided.
Comparing the religious to an easily lead house pet is something I think even Richard Dawkins would have avoided.
Compared to God we are like sheep (and He is the "good" Shephard) and that comparison is accurate...I humble myself and admit it.
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Oh I've been in the boat a long, long time, but I don't believe in predestination or election at all. And I don't believe in hell either. I come by that honestly. One of my great great grandfathers wrote a 35 page treatise on the ridiculousness of a vengeful God who is supposed to be all loving way back in about 1840. He made many of the arguments about predestination that I make in fact. Why would you create a hell for beings that you create that are predestined to be there? Makes zero sense. Don't inflict them on the rest of us. Just send them straight there. They don't have free will anyway. He entitled it "Vindictive Punishment".?
But now you are in big trouble by supporting the anti-Christ.? Better start getting in those regrets right away.
?
The hell the bible speaks of was never meant for human beings it was meant for satan and demonic beings. What most people don't understand is that people don't go to hell because of what they do, they go to hell because of what they are. Spiritually dead. They go to hell with their eyes wide open because they preferred hell to heaven. If the bible is correct the part of humans created in the image of God is the spirit part and that part (like God) was meant to last eternally. We die physically but our spirits live on and God has created a place for those eternal spirits after death. Either with Him or eternally separated from Him. No matter what hell is like eternal separation from God is enough for me to want to avoid it, I don't need the flames, worms and sulfur the bible speaks about.
Either with Him or eternally separated from Him. No matter what hell is like eternal separation from God is enough for me to want to avoid it, I don't need the flames, worms and sulfur the bible speaks about.
Hot damn in that we are in agreement. And I was not predestined to believe it either.?
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Comparing the religious to an easily lead house pet is something I think even Richard Dawkins would have avoided.
Compared to God we are like sheep (and He is the "good" Shephard) and that comparison is accurate...I humble myself and admit it.
Compared to God we are like sheep (and He is the "good" Shephard) and that comparison is accurate...I humble myself and admit it.
The employees here at Sky Wizard Inc. appreciate your compliance and especially your financial donations.
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Can't imagine it being very Christ-like denying anyone a chance to speak of appreciation, love and respect for one's parent. Regardless of their orientation.
This is the very fabric of the 4th commandment.
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Compared to God we are like sheep (and He is the "good" Shephard) and that comparison is accurate...I humble myself and admit it.
The employees here at Sky Wizard Inc. appreciate your compliance and especially your financial donations.
The employees here at Sky Wizard Inc. appreciate your compliance and especially your financial donations.
Just leave the money on top of the TV when the Rev completes the sermon.?
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Comparing the religious to an easily lead house pet is something I think even Richard Dawkins would have avoided.
Compared to God we are like sheep (and He is the "good" Shephard) and that comparison is accurate...I humble myself and admit it.
Compared to God we are like sheep (and He is the "good" Shephard) and that comparison is accurate...I humble myself and admit it.
I've never liked the analogy of God being a "good shepherd" and referring to my fellow humans as "sheep", because shepherds never tend to flocks out of the goodness of their hearts; shepherds tend to keep sheep in order to fleece, fuck or fix them for dinner.
"That which can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence”. - Christopher Hitchens "The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you". - Neil deGrasse Tyson -
At first glance this seems worse than it is. It seems like the church is just being bigoted, cold and heartless in denying a dying man's last wish. It is not however that they want to refuse the man a funeral in their church it is the demand that the openly gay son participate in the funeral in the sanctuary of their church. Let's say the church wouldn't let the son participate in the funeral because he was openly committing adultery. Would there be a big outcry? Probably not, yet that is an accurate comparison. Just because the government says homosexuality is a civil right the bible still teaches that it is no more of a civil right than adultery is a civil right. Most bible believing churches I know of don't disallow gays to attend their church but they do not allow them in any type of leadership or ministry and the reason is because they are they are living a lifestyle the bible expressly forbids.
At first glance this seems worse than it is. It seems like the church is just being bigoted, cold and heartless in denying a dying man's last wish. It is not however that they want to refuse the man a funeral in their church it is the demand that the openly gay son participate in the funeral in the sanctuary of their church. Let's say the church wouldn't let the son participate in the funeral because he was openly committing adultery. Would there be a big outcry? Probably not, yet that is an accurate comparison. Just because the government says homosexuality is a civil right the bible still teaches that it is no more of a civil right than adultery is a civil right. Most bible believing churches I know of don't disallow gays to attend their church but they do not allow them in any type of leadership or ministry and the reason is because they are they are living a lifestyle the bible expressly forbids.
I think you just demonstrated Dr. Weinberg's point. Only the blindly religious would have the audacity to rationalize such behaviour. For shame.
"That which can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence”. - Christopher Hitchens "The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you". - Neil deGrasse Tyson -
Either with Him or eternally separated from Him. No matter what hell is like eternal separation from God is enough for me to want to avoid it, I don't need the flames, worms and sulfur the bible speaks about.
Hot damn in that we are in agreement. And I was not predestined to believe it either.?
Hot damn in that we are in agreement. And I was not predestined to believe it either.?
You were...you just haven't realized it yet.
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At first glance this seems worse than it is. It seems like the church is just being bigoted, cold and heartless in denying a dying man's last wish. It is not however that they want to refuse the man a funeral in their church it is the demand that the openly gay son participate in the funeral in the sanctuary of their church. Let's say the church wouldn't let the son participate in the funeral because he was openly committing adultery. Would there be a big outcry? Probably not, yet that is an accurate comparison. Just because the government says homosexuality is a civil right the bible still teaches that it is no more of a civil right than adultery is a civil right. Most bible believing churches I know of don't disallow gays to attend their church but they do not allow them in any type of leadership or ministry and the reason is because they are they are living a lifestyle the bible expressly forbids.
I think you just demonstrated Dr. Weinberg's point. Only the blindly religious would have the audacity to rationalize such behaviour. For shame.
I think you just demonstrated Dr. Weinberg's point. Only the blindly religious would have the audacity to rationalize such behaviour. For shame.
I always loved Israel and the Jewish people but if my dying wish was to have my funeral in a synagogue with my Christian son singing a Christian song and I get denied my request, I'm not taking offense to that.
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Or I spend my limited time on the Earth trying to make the most of it, not constrained by rules created by sand merchants from 2000 years ago.
I made the most of my life. How many people can look back on their life and say they have no regrets? I can say that. So not only have I lived the best life possible in this life I have that future hope that you do not have.
Are there some constraints as a believer. Yes. We have a huge amount of freedom in our faith but it is freedom within a fence. My dog has total freedom in our house and she has a large fenced in back yard to roam. She is safe that way but if she gets out of the fence she could get hit by a car or attacked by another dog or stolen or any number of things. I am convinced the limited restraints we have are for our own good.
Are there some constraints as a believer. Yes. We have a huge amount of freedom in our faith but it is freedom within a fence. My dog has total freedom in our house and she has a large fenced in back yard to roam. She is safe that way but if she gets out of the fence she could get hit by a car or attacked by another dog or stolen or any number of things. I am convinced the limited restraints we have are for our own good.
yeeesh
careful you don't start doing anything too radical like asking questions...
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
Compared to God we are like sheep (and He is the "good" Shephard) and that comparison is accurate...I humble myself and admit it.
I've never liked the analogy of God being a "good shepherd" and referring to my fellow humans as "sheep", because shepherds never tend to flocks out of the goodness of their hearts; shepherds tend to keep sheep in order to fleece, fuck or fix them for dinner.
I've never liked the analogy of God being a "good shepherd" and referring to my fellow humans as "sheep", because shepherds never tend to flocks out of the goodness of their hearts; shepherds tend to keep sheep in order to fleece, fuck or fix them for dinner.
That is what the bible speaks about the "good shepherd" and makes that distinction you speak of other shepherds as just being the hired hands who don't really care about the sheep. This good shepherd was one who would lay his life down for the sheep. I'm fine with the analogy of sheep...we are what we are.
This is a good place to put in a little bible teaching about that good shephard. In Psalm 23 David says the Lord is my shepherd I shall not want...He maketh me to lay down in green pastures..500 years later when Jesus multiplied the loaves of bread and the fish in the bible it says He made them lay down in green grass (pasture) when He fed them...
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Are there some constraints as a believer. Yes. We have a huge amount of freedom in our faith but it is freedom within a fence. My dog has total freedom in our house and she has a large fenced in back yard to roam. She is safe that way but if she gets out of the fence she could get hit by a car or attacked by another dog or stolen or any number of things. I am convinced the limited restraints we have are for our own good.
yeeesh
careful you don't start doing anything too radical like asking questions...
yeeesh
careful you don't start doing anything too radical like asking questions...
The question you should ask is the impossible bridge you can never cross (believing out nothing came the universe and all of creation). You can make science your god but there is nothing in science that can back that up, it goes against all science...
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Compared to God we are like sheep (and He is the "good" Shephard) and that comparison is accurate...I humble myself and admit it.
I've never liked the analogy of God being a "good shepherd" and referring to my fellow humans as "sheep", because shepherds never tend to flocks out of the goodness of their hearts; shepherds tend to keep sheep in order to fleece, fuck or fix them for dinner.
I've never liked the analogy of God being a "good shepherd" and referring to my fellow humans as "sheep", because shepherds never tend to flocks out of the goodness of their hearts; shepherds tend to keep sheep in order to fleece, fuck or fix them for dinner.
Except it's not in relation to God. It was Jesus who said that of himself...that like a good shepherd he would lay down his life to try and save his sheep. Which he did. I am positive he wasn't out to fleece.
Am I right OBF?
Your point being invalid is bad enough. You didn't have to include a racist remark.
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