Martinez trade talks
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Yeah, Nightengale reports that it's done:
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It looks like Shapiro is caving in again, not getting enough for VMart, I see a trend.
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Hagadone had TJ last year. He's back, looks good. Big, hard throwing lefty.
Price throws gas as well, bullpen guy at Rice, converted to a starter.
While Masterson is the only one MLB ready, these two have the ability to fly through the minors.
It's also not clear just yet that it's only these 3, w/o cash or another throw in, etc.
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A few things to keep in mind before we start crying in our beers....here's Castro
According to the Boston Herald, the Red Sox rejected a one-for-one proposal of Victor Martinez for Clay Buchholz last week, which is not terribly surprising, and not just because Buchholz is so highly regarded.
http://castrovince.mlblogs.com/I hate to burst the bubble of anyone hoping that a trade involving V-Mart will bring in another promising haul of prospects and somehow sweeten the Cliff Lee situation and the club's earnest efforts to reload for 2011. But there are a few things to keep in mind about Martinez:
* He turns 31 this offseason and has an injury history.
* He's never been highly regarded for his skills behind the plate in controlling the running game.
* Yes, he can be moved to first base, but his offensive numbers as a catcher are much more valuable than his offensive numbers as a first baseman.
* And regarding those offensive numbers, the guy has hit .193 since May 22 and .149 since June 20.
* Last but certainly not least, Martinez will make $7.6 million next season if he's traded (I had listed it at $7.5 million yesterday but forgot that Martinez earned an additional $100,000 for his All-Star selection). That's a significant amount of money for a team to be taking on for his services, especially in this economic climate.
The Lee deal -- or at least the Lou Marson portion of it -- makes a heck of a lot more sense if Martinez is moved. But the Indians have basically made it clear to the rest of the league that they are slashing payroll for 2010, and that would be the prime motivation for moving Martinez. The returns for him won't be anywhere near what they were for Lee, and the returns for Lee have already drawn scrutiny in the industry.
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this is getting rediculous i cant belive we are trading victor who are we going to have next year to come and see besides sizemore if he dont get traded in the off season which at this rate i wouldnt put it past the front office this is just stupid and i dont plan on going to a game next year either now
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Martinez is now a Red Sox catcher. We might as well get rid of Grady. How can anyone be happy with this shit. It will be at least 4 years till we have a winning record again. This pisses me off so bad.
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A few things to keep in mind before we start crying in our beers....here's Castro
According to the Boston Herald, the Red Sox rejected a one-for-one proposal of Victor Martinez for Clay Buchholz last week, which is not terribly surprising, and not just because Buchholz is so highly regarded.
http://castrovince.mlblogs.com/I hate to burst the bubble of anyone hoping that a trade involving V-Mart will bring in another promising haul of prospects and somehow sweeten the Cliff Lee situation and the club's earnest efforts to reload for 2011. But there are a few things to keep in mind about Martinez:
* He turns 31 this offseason and has an injury history.
* He's never been highly regarded for his skills behind the plate in controlling the running game.
* Yes, he can be moved to first base, but his offensive numbers as a catcher are much more valuable than his offensive numbers as a first baseman.
* And regarding those offensive numbers, the guy has hit .193 since May 22 and .149 since June 20.
* Last but certainly not least, Martinez will make $7.6 million next season if he's traded (I had listed it at $7.5 million yesterday but forgot that Martinez earned an additional $100,000 for his All-Star selection). That's a significant amount of money for a team to be taking on for his services, especially in this economic climate.
The Lee deal -- or at least the Lou Marson portion of it -- makes a heck of a lot more sense if Martinez is moved. But the Indians have basically made it clear to the rest of the league that they are slashing payroll for 2010, and that would be the prime motivation for moving Martinez. The returns for him won't be anywhere near what they were for Lee, and the returns for Lee have already drawn scrutiny in the industry.
A few things to keep in mind before we start crying in our beers....here's Castro
CIMO, I do happen to agree, at least more then the Lee trade, this make more sense. He is not going to play catcher because of his defense. And usually you want power out of your corners. Victor is a gap hitter, usually with that you need some sort of speed, which Victor does not have. He's slow as shit. The only issue I have is him coming and raking off our shitty pitching for the next 3 years. But oh well good luck Victor.
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Martinez is now a Red Sox catcher. We might as well get rid of Grady. How can anyone be happy with this shit. It will be at least 4 years till we have a winning record again. This pisses me off so bad.
Martinez is now a Red Sox catcher. We might as well get rid of Grady. How can anyone be happy with this shit. It will be at least 4 years till we have a winning record again. This pisses me off so bad.
Just one thing since I don't want to re-do my whole deal from yesterday.
We weren't going to re-sign him. We weren't going to win this year certainly. We probably weren't going to win next year. The key to the roster AS IT WAS, with Cliff and Victor, was getting guys like LaPorta and Rondon and Santana up in Cleveland. Obviously we weren't going to re-sign these guys because Cliff will get too much money and Victor is old, banged up, and we have elite prospects at his position(...s. C and 1B). The plan is to make 2011 as good as possible, and the window of contention as long as possible, where we have great young players all coming up at the same time.
Basically, we were going to have to wait to win anyway. We weren't going to have Cliff or Victor past 2010. Might as well get what we could.
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Martinez is now a Red Sox catcher. We might as well get rid of Grady. How can anyone be happy with this shit. It will be at least 4 years till we have a winning record again. This pisses me off so bad.
Just one thing since I don't want to re-do my whole deal from yesterday.
We weren't going to re-sign him. We weren't going to win this year certainly. We probably weren't going to win next year. The key to the roster AS IT WAS, with Cliff and Victor, was getting guys like LaPorta and Rondon and Santana up in Cleveland. Obviously we weren't going to re-sign these guys because Cliff will get too much money and Victor is old, banged up, and we have elite prospects at his position(...s. C and 1B). The plan is to make 2011 as good as possible, and the window of contention as long as possible, where we have great young players all coming up at the same time.
Basically, we were going to have to wait to win anyway. We weren't going to have Cliff or Victor past 2010. Might as well get what we could.
Just one thing since I don't want to re-do my whole deal from yesterday.
We weren't going to re-sign him. We weren't going to win this year certainly. We probably weren't going to win next year. The key to the roster AS IT WAS, with Cliff and Victor, was getting guys like LaPorta and Rondon and Santana up in Cleveland. Obviously we weren't going to re-sign these guys because Cliff will get too much money and Victor is old, banged up, and we have elite prospects at his position(...s. C and 1B). The plan is to make 2011 as good as possible, and the window of contention as long as possible, where we have great young players all coming up at the same time.
Basically, we were going to have to wait to win anyway. We weren't going to have Cliff or Victor past 2010. Might as well get what we could.
I am starting to come around. I do agree with you on Victor, just not about Lee. I think we are just pissed because we were so close in 07 and and this year with the Cavs and smelt blood. Dude Cleveland needs a title, it's like the whole city hasn't f'cked in 35 years and are horny as shit.
I say we go an sign Sal Fasano for fun.
p.s. CIMO you need to change your Avitar to Tony Sipp.
-signed Blue Balls
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this is getting rediculous i cant belive we are trading victor who are we going to have next year to come and see besides sizemore if he dont get traded in the off season which at this rate i wouldnt put it past the front office this is just stupid and i dont plan on going to a game next year either now
this is getting rediculous i cant belive we are trading victor who are we going to have next year to come and see besides sizemore if he dont get traded in the off season which at this rate i wouldnt put it past the front office this is just stupid and i dont plan on going to a game next year either now
Again, 31yr old catcher. While he's shown solid control of the pitching staff behind the plate and he manages the game well, his defense is nowhere near his offense. And as he ages, it will not only get worse, but take a serious toll on his offense.
Couldn't even trade Sizemore for acceptable value now so you don't have to worry.
If Victor moved to 1B full time, he would be a solid AL 1B. Defensively he can play the position, but now you're looking at a team that has well below average power numbers at every IF position and probably one corner OF.
And people can get upset about why Victor didn't land Bucholz, Bard, Bowden. but that's pretty unrealistic. Lee and Martinez MIGHT have pulled that off.
Shapiro and his staff have been good to great at evaluating talent, and bringing in hauls of prospects via trade that have greatly improved the team. They just have not drafted very well. Too conservative in my opinion. But I never have, nor will I ever say a nice thing about Wedge. Since day 1, I wasn't a believer. That said, finding a GM that is as efficient and effective as Shapiro is damn near impossible. One of the best GMs in baseball, again, in my opinion.
Let's not act like because some talking heads on the TV yap about what should or could have been, the minute a trade is completed, that the Indians got hosed. If an organization has a unique way of evaluating players, which points them in a different direction than what Baseball America or the MLB network says, this can be a huge advantage. You're able to land more players that you value higher than the usual generic top 10 rankings of some website.
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Just one thing since I don't want to re-do my whole deal from yesterday.
We weren't going to re-sign him. We weren't going to win this year certainly. We probably weren't going to win next year. The key to the roster AS IT WAS, with Cliff and Victor, was getting guys like LaPorta and Rondon and Santana up in Cleveland. Obviously we weren't going to re-sign these guys because Cliff will get too much money and Victor is old, banged up, and we have elite prospects at his position(...s. C and 1B). The plan is to make 2011 as good as possible, and the window of contention as long as possible, where we have great young players all coming up at the same time.
Basically, we were going to have to wait to win anyway. We weren't going to have Cliff or Victor past 2010. Might as well get what we could.
I am starting to come around. I do agree with you on Victor, just not about Lee. I think we are just pissed because we were so close in 07 and and this year with the Cavs and smelt blood. Dude Cleveland needs a title, it's like the whole city hasn't f'cked in 35 years and are horny as shit.
I say we go an sign Sal Fasano for fun.
p.s. CIMO you need to change your Avitar to Tony Sipp.
-signed Blue Balls
I am starting to come around. I do agree with you on Victor, just not about Lee. I think we are just pissed because we were so close in 07 and and this year with the Cavs and smelt blood. Dude Cleveland needs a title, it's like the whole city hasn't f'cked in 35 years and are horny as shit.
I say we go an sign Sal Fasano for fun.
p.s. CIMO you need to change your Avitar to Tony Sipp.
-signed Blue Balls
Yep, we got into it yesterday but I see your points, too. For me it's just a matter of....even if we made some dumb moves in past...there's nothing we can do about it now. You see years of getting rid of star players, I see no chance of winning in '09 and a very unlikely chance of winning in '10....and we weren't going to re-sign these guys past then so you have to make sure 2011 and beyond is as good as possible.
I'm actually pretty much the opposite in terms of Lee/Vic.....basically just because I liked Vic a hell of a lot more than Lee. Lee's really only had 2 and half years of all-star performance, and I still can't get over how different '07 could've been with the 2008 Lee. I know he wasn't trying to pitch as bad as he did...but still. Vic's been our man for years, it's a punch to the gut to see him leave and I'm probably going to get teary eyed when I see his press conference.
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Just one thing since I don't want to re-do my whole deal from yesterday.
We weren't going to re-sign him. We weren't going to win this year certainly. We probably weren't going to win next year. The key to the roster AS IT WAS, with Cliff and Victor, was getting guys like LaPorta and Rondon and Santana up in Cleveland. Obviously we weren't going to re-sign these guys because Cliff will get too much money and Victor is old, banged up, and we have elite prospects at his position(...s. C and 1B). The plan is to make 2011 as good as possible, and the window of contention as long as possible, where we have great young players all coming up at the same time.
Basically, we were going to have to wait to win anyway. We weren't going to have Cliff or Victor past 2010. Might as well get what we could.
I am starting to come around. I do agree with you on Victor, just not about Lee. I think we are just pissed because we were so close in 07 and and this year with the Cavs and smelt blood. Dude Cleveland needs a title, it's like the whole city hasn't f'cked in 35 years and are horny as shit.
I say we go an sign Sal Fasano for fun.
p.s. CIMO you need to change your Avitar to Tony Sipp.
-signed Blue Balls
I say we go an sign Sal Fasano for fun.
That's so awesome, you've won the Internets!
Beanpot
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I am starting to come around. I do agree with you on Victor, just not about Lee. I think we are just pissed because we were so close in 07 and and this year with the Cavs and smelt blood. Dude Cleveland needs a title, it's like the whole city hasn't f'cked in 35 years and are horny as shit.
I say we go an sign Sal Fasano for fun.
p.s. CIMO you need to change your Avitar to Tony Sipp.
-signed Blue Balls
Yep, we got into it yesterday but I see your points, too. For me it's just a matter of....even if we made some dumb moves in past...there's nothing we can do about it now. You see years of getting rid of star players, I see no chance of winning in '09 and a very unlikely chance of winning in '10....and we weren't going to re-sign these guys past then so you have to make sure 2011 and beyond is as good as possible.
I'm actually pretty much the opposite in terms of Lee/Vic.....basically just because I liked Vic a hell of a lot more than Lee. Lee's really only had 2 and half years of all-star performance, and I still can't get over how different '07 could've been with the 2008 Lee. I know he wasn't trying to pitch as bad as he did...but still. Vic's been our man for years, it's a punch to the gut to see him leave and I'm probably going to get teary eyed when I see his press conference.
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I am starting to come around. I do agree with you on Victor, just not about Lee. I think we are just pissed because we were so close in 07 and and this year with the Cavs and smelt blood. Dude Cleveland needs a title, it's like the whole city hasn't f'cked in 35 years and are horny as shit.
I say we go an sign Sal Fasano for fun.
p.s. CIMO you need to change your Avitar to Tony Sipp.
-signed Blue Balls
Yep, we got into it yesterday but I see your points, too. For me it's just a matter of....even if we made some dumb moves in past...there's nothing we can do about it now. You see years of getting rid of star players, I see no chance of winning in '09 and a very unlikely chance of winning in '10....and we weren't going to re-sign these guys past then so you have to make sure 2011 and beyond is as good as possible.
I'm actually pretty much the opposite in terms of Lee/Vic.....basically just because I liked Vic a hell of a lot more than Lee. Lee's really only had 2 and half years of all-star performance, and I still can't get over how different '07 could've been with the 2008 Lee. I know he wasn't trying to pitch as bad as he did...but still. Vic's been our man for years, it's a punch to the gut to see him leave and I'm probably going to get teary eyed when I see his press conference.
Yep, we got into it yesterday but I see your points, too. For me it's just a matter of....even if we made some dumb moves in past...there's nothing we can do about it now. You see years of getting rid of star players, I see no chance of winning in '09 and a very unlikely chance of winning in '10....and we weren't going to re-sign these guys past then so you have to make sure 2011 and beyond is as good as possible.
I'm actually pretty much the opposite in terms of Lee/Vic.....basically just because I liked Vic a hell of a lot more than Lee. Lee's really only had 2 and half years of all-star performance, and I still can't get over how different '07 could've been with the 2008 Lee. I know he wasn't trying to pitch as bad as he did...but still. Vic's been our man for years, it's a punch to the gut to see him leave and I'm probably going to get teary eyed when I see his press conference.
You know, it's all good, CIMO, you know your shit, bro, even if you live in Texas you hillbilly, jk. We have a common place for our team here and fights are going to happen. In a Steelers chat room they are taking about meeting each other downtown for a blow. Here, we are passionate, which is why the lowly Browns have sold out for 10 years straight with shit ass teams. I like a lot of players but Lee was a CY Young period. The ONLY reason we did as well at the end of last season as we did was Lee (well not including Garko, who I think had 35 RBI's in 40 games). It's almost like losing a family, but not one family member at a time, it's the whole family in a car wreak.
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after this season i am turning in my indians fan card, i cant take us selling our team down the river. I knew i didnt like Shapiro the minute he took over. That idiot needs to be fired he has run our team into the ground from the time he took over until now.
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Here is the new t-shirt they are going to be selling at Tribe games.
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