1 theory on why Baker is struggling
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It's funny, if old Baker (and old offensive scheme) was playing this week against Baltimore, I'd predict us to win by a comfortable margin. I also want to throw some shade at a John Dorsey. Why do we have the most atrocious TEs on earth? Did I just see Fells catch another one for Texans? Why don't we have a blocking TE worth a shit? Why not a fullback? Are you really telling me our TEs are as good as available? I liked Devalve! He could be H-back or a receiver!
I have a sneaky suspicion that Baker is going to be looking for Landry a ton this game. Landry has been open so many times and Baker has either missed him or just didn't see him. And the coaches HAVE to stop with the Landry deep routes. That's NOT how he caught 100 balls every year. Jesus, this shit isn't complicated.
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Fells agains???
Oy vey...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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And the absolute worst part is that he didn't even try to throw to his best weapon, who was open.
Those 3 throws are a microcosm of Baker's season so far. Not seeing the open man, not anticipating routes, and simply panicking so often. I'm not entirely sure people understand how many open receivers Baker has missed this season, especially on 3rd down. Let's also be fair to the kid, every single QB misses receivers, everyone gets flustered, and all QBs have a run of bad games. Simple. We could have scored a defensive touchdown instead of tripping over our own guy. For whatever reason, our defense is genetically predisposed to crap on themselves during a turnover. We literally CANNOT score once we have the turnover. Your letting after game video clips affect your opinion. It's what fans do after..& included in most your post.(we recovered the miss exchange Bake/Chubb) Obj was Doubled all game & down there, was not his first read for same reason. Even the best QB's can't count on defender going down..Turnovers..We have scored off turnovers..The Ravens have gotten 2 picks & 1 fumble.Browns have a pair of both..We rank only 21st cuz the Ravens have not turned ball over not even once..stay tuned
Anyway, back to Baker. I don't have the stat on hand, but I know Baker has been deplorable against pressure. Guess what Baltimore is going to bring tomorrow? They might not have the defense of old, but their line is amazing and they're going to be all over Mayfield. (Ravens fans/media would disagree but with this OL? ok) And I swear to God if we run that tired ass screen play to Chubb 20 more times tomorrow, I'll lose my mind. Where's the creativity? I was absolutely SCREAMING QB draw last week, but NOPE. That play has worked against us for 20 years, but lord knows we won't run it. All 22 shows a OL mess setting up screens..unless your back can't wait on blocks? already setting up down field missing them..QB Draws with Rams front? with Baker this early? I'll pass..
I sure hope we win tomorrow, but I just finished watching Baltimore highlights from their games and I'm not feeling very good. They are downright terrifying, and their only weakness is against the big play, but unfortunately we seem immune to making those. Brandon Cooks could have killed us more than just twice on reverses..stay tuned, we will see more this week..
QB Draws with Rams front? with Baker this early? I'll pass..
I honestly thought we were going to run a draw once we spread them out and I was so excited. Obviously we'll never know if it would have worked, but man...I was envisioning Baker busting through to score and jumping into the stands. It's difficult to stop if you're not expecting it, and I still maintain its better than most plays. But whatever, different strokes and all that.
And OBJ wasn't doubled near as much as you say, in fact, Todd Monken was quoted this week saying the same thing. For whatever reason Baker didn't look his way or Jarvis' way, and that's something he'll have to live with. Baker even said after the game that not hitting Jarvis will haunt his dreams for a while because he inexplicably threw it to a double covered Harris. Why? Because it worked once and he was hoping it'd work again, instead of trusting himself to make the correct read.
All this talk goes away with a win, but I'll tell you that our defense is due for a bad game. It's only normal. You can't shut down EVERYONE every week. Hopefully we save our bad game for another time, but this offense we're playing isn't normal, and the Ravens will put up big yards in a quick hurry. Hopefully Baker does the same thing, but if he's throwing high still, it's not going to be fun.
And it's not ME killing your Browns buzz, that's the team. Time to nut up and take it to the champs...at their house.
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QB Draws with Rams front? with Baker this early? I'll pass..
I honestly thought we were going to run a draw once we spread them out and I was so excited. Obviously we'll never know if it would have worked, but man...I was envisioning Baker busting through to score and jumping into the stands. It's difficult to stop if you're not expecting it, and I still maintain its better than most plays. But whatever, different strokes and all that.
And OBJ wasn't doubled near as much as you say, in fact, Todd Monken was quoted this week saying the same thing. For whatever reason Baker didn't look his way or Jarvis' way, and that's something he'll have to live with. Baker even said after the game that not hitting Jarvis will haunt his dreams for a while because he inexplicably threw it to a double covered Harris. Why? Because it worked once and he was hoping it'd work again, instead of trusting himself to make the correct read.
All this talk goes away with a win, but I'll tell you that our defense is due for a bad game. It's only normal. You can't shut down EVERYONE every week. Hopefully we save our bad game for another time, but this offense we're playing isn't normal, and the Ravens will put up big yards in a quick hurry. Hopefully Baker does the same thing, but if he's throwing high still, it's not going to be fun.
And it's not ME killing your Browns buzz, that's the team. Time to nut up and take it to the champs...at their house.
I honestly thought we were going to run a draw once we spread them out and I was so excited.
Ditto...
Invite the DTs to the outside and see if they bite...
You never know unless you try.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I’ve watched some of Arizona games.
Man their defense might be as bad as their OLine.
Ravens beat them by 6.
Fins are a complete disaster.
KC destroyed the Ravens for a half, then their defense phoned in the 4th quarter.
Fins -32nd ranked defense.
Cards- 30th
KC - 24th
If anybody believes that Baltimore’s offense which is ranked 1st in the league is really that good, let me know. I have some great stuff to sell you.
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I’ve watched some of Arizona games.
Man their defense might be as bad as their OLine.
Ravens beat them by 6.
Fins are a complete disaster.
KC destroyed the Ravens for a half, then their defense phoned in the 4th quarter.
Fins -32nd ranked defense.
Cards- 30th
KC - 24th
If anybody believes that Baltimore’s offense which is ranked 1st in the league is really that good, let me know. I have some great stuff to sell you.
I’ve watched some of Arizona games.
Man their defense might be as bad as their OLine.
Ravens beat them by 6.
Fins are a complete disaster.
KC destroyed the Ravens for a half, then their defense phoned in the 4th quarter.
Fins -32nd ranked defense.
Cards- 30th
KC - 24th
If anybody believes that Baltimore’s offense which is ranked 1st in the league is really that good, let me know. I have some great stuff to sell you.
fuck the ravens
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OK, upon further mulling it over and reading the responses to this post..................
1.) Name the QBs who hit the NFL without a speed bump and had no trials and tribulations early in their career. Hmmmmmmm. Dan Marino....and................ummmmmm...to a degree Ben Roethlisberger....and.........Cam? But let's also consider, having a good rookie year but faltering soon after doesn't count as having no rough patches early. Cam and RG3 started off with a bang but both had some poor stretches soon after. In other words, Baker struggling is no worse than how Elways, Peyton Manning, Aikman, Favre, Bradshaw, and so on started off. Basically the vast majority of Hall of Famers started off sucking.
2.) As has been established, Freddie has never attained even a coordinator position and he is now the architect of our O? What shows you that he is even competent at structuring and assimilating an O system? I'm not trying to rip the guy, but let's look at the facts here. Other than getting along with Baker after they fired the huge clowns (Hue and Todd) what qualification did Freddie have on his resume? Running backs coach? Not anywhere near the same thing. OC Monkens, by the way, has a pretty darn good record as an offensive coach himself. I have no idea why he isn't calling the plays; the # of head coaches who are adept at being the head coach AND calling the plays (Shanahan, Reid) is few. And since Freddie has done neither, why take on both roles? It makes no sense, and it may be such a problem that this team won't reach its potential until that is changed.
3.) I am growing a little tired of the "let Baker be Baker, he gets fired up with trash talk, it fuels him, so he should keep doing it," talk. There is a time and place. And if the NFL has proven anything in its past, it is that no player is so powerful and skilled, that being overly cocky is wise. If you put a bullseye on your head, you will be beat the frick up, especially today. Everyone is so big, strong and fast, that if you pop off, you are going to pay. This isn't the Big 12. You can run your mouth and grab your crotch there if you are good enough. If you give these NFL beasts extra incentive to lump you up, they will. Baker has overcome every obstacle on the field in his life with cockiness and verve, but he really may want to keep a little of his fire inside instead of alway running his cake hole. I hope he doesn't learn this the hard way.
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OK, upon further mulling it over and reading the responses to this post..................
1.) Name the QBs who hit the NFL without a speed bump and had no trials and tribulations early in their career. Hmmmmmmm. Dan Marino....and................ummmmmm...to a degree Ben Roethlisberger....and.........Cam? But let's also consider, having a good rookie year but faltering soon after doesn't count as having no rough patches early. Cam and RG3 started off with a bang but both had some poor stretches soon after. In other words, Baker struggling is no worse than how Elways, Peyton Manning, Aikman, Favre, Bradshaw, and so on started off. Basically the vast majority of Hall of Famers started off sucking.
2.) As has been established, Freddie has never attained even a coordinator position and he is now the architect of our O? What shows you that he is even competent at structuring and assimilating an O system? I'm not trying to rip the guy, but let's look at the facts here. Other than getting along with Baker after they fired the huge clowns (Hue and Todd) what qualification did Freddie have on his resume? Running backs coach? Not anywhere near the same thing. OC Monkens, by the way, has a pretty darn good record as an offensive coach himself. I have no idea why he isn't calling the plays; the # of head coaches who are adept at being the head coach AND calling the plays (Shanahan, Reid) is few. And since Freddie has done neither, why take on both roles? It makes no sense, and it may be such a problem that this team won't reach its potential until that is changed.
3.) I am growing a little tired of the "let Baker be Baker, he gets fired up with trash talk, it fuels him, so he should keep doing it," talk. There is a time and place. And if the NFL has proven anything in its past, it is that no player is so powerful and skilled, that being overly cocky is wise. If you put a bullseye on your head, you will be beat the frick up, especially today. Everyone is so big, strong and fast, that if you pop off, you are going to pay. This isn't the Big 12. You can run your mouth and grab your crotch there if you are good enough. If you give these NFL beasts extra incentive to lump you up, they will. Baker has overcome every obstacle on the field in his life with cockiness and verve, but he really may want to keep a little of his fire inside instead of alway running his cake hole. I hope he doesn't learn this the hard way.
Freddie has never attained even a coordinator position and he is now the architect of our O?
Here's the thing, Freddie was largely credited with substantially turning around our offense, but more importantly our QUARTERBACK. Baker was doing OK, especially as a rookie, but he downright took OFF after Freddie took over. And when I say took over, the kid started setting records. In addition to production, Baker literally didn't get sacked or hardly TOUCHED for like 8 games. I've never seen anything like it. Our offense was innovative, creative, and unpredictable. So what's wrong NOW?
As always, I'm glad you asked! Let me set the ground rules. This is NOT a doom and gloom post, I don't want to be known as that guy. Have I been critical? Yes, but it's not without merit. The differences this year have to do with personnel grouping. Last season Baker was at his best in "12 personnel", which is a 2 TE set. This was mostly done to protect, but also used the extra TE as a blocker for running plays.
So what are running mostly this year? Surely we'd run 12 personnel again this year, right? The same grouping that enabled our QB to set rookie records? Wrong. We're mostly running "11 personnel", which as you know is a single TE and, 1 RB, and 1 3 WRs. We're also running many longer routes running deeper down the field, and this is a mystery as we're struggling to protect.
Why aren't we running two TE sets this year? A lot of it has to do with our personnel. Obviously losing Njoku hurt, but TE was probably one of our weakest position groupings on the roster. For some reason, we cut or traded Devalve, Orson Charles, and Darren Fells. None of these 3 were ever going to be considered "good" but at least they knew the offense, and at least they sort of knew how to block.
We need to sign a blocking TE, and we need to do it NOW. Pharaoh Brown is borderline worthless, and blocking TEs are easier to find than receiving ones. We have to make a move and get back to what Baker knows.
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Take away all of the ridiculous, absurd and ludicrous off season hype and expectations, and I would think that every single person here would be absolutely stoked with a chance to get to 2-2 with a share of the division lead all while beating the ratturds in less than 24hrs.
Some of you need to stop reading, listening to and watching "sports talk" shit shows and remember that this team is still measured in months when talking about how long they are removed from being a 1-31 team.
If they put together 4 good quarters of football tomorrow, then I look forward to clicking on the several "Browns are going to the SB" threads.............
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Fells agains???
Oy vey...
We got a glimpse of Fells in Hard Knocks last year, and he was distinctly portrayed as an effective player and a teacher of men. It’s not too far off the mark to assume he really is that guy, which would be good for this team and particularly the TE room right now. I get his numbers may lack in his new digs, but they are new digs, and it’s not unreasonable to think he might be flourishing with us right now with the current situation we are in with TE.
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Take away all of the ridiculous, absurd and ludicrous off season hype and expectations, and I would think that every single person here would be absolutely stoked with a chance to get to 2-2 with a share of the division lead all while beating the ratturds in less than 24hrs.
Some of you need to stop reading, listening to and watching "sports talk" shit shows and remember that this team is still measured in months when talking about how long they are removed from being a 1-31 team.
If they put together 4 good quarters of football tomorrow, then I look forward to clicking on the several "Browns are going to the SB" threads.............
Take away all of the ridiculous, absurd and ludicrous off season hype and expectations, and I would think that every single person here would be absolutely stoked with a chance to get to 2-2 with a share of the division lead all while beating the ratturds in less than 24hrs.
Some of you need to stop reading, listening to and watching "sports talk" shit shows and remember that this team is still measured in months when talking about how long they are removed from being a 1-31 team.
If they put together 4 good quarters of football tomorrow, then I look forward to clicking on the several "Browns are going to the SB" threads.............
For some of us "sports talk shows" are an intrical part of the entire entertainment value of being a sports fan to begin with. Why cut out an entire piece of one of our prime sources of entertainment? Of course, if it makes your life more enjoyable to eliminate that out of your life, then you do you and stop watching and listening to such media. Personally, I love hearing debate regarding sports - especially NFL stuff. To me, there is nothing better than switching on the radio for sports talk when I'm driving, even if it's not about my team (I live near J-ville, so it's mostly Jag talk here, although national shows are also played).
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Freddie has never attained even a coordinator position and he is now the architect of our O?
Here's the thing, Freddie was largely credited with substantially turning around our offense, but more importantly our QUARTERBACK. Baker was doing OK, especially as a rookie, but he downright took OFF after Freddie took over. And when I say took over, the kid started setting records. In addition to production, Baker literally didn't get sacked or hardly TOUCHED for like 8 games. I've never seen anything like it. Our offense was innovative, creative, and unpredictable. So what's wrong NOW?
As always, I'm glad you asked! Let me set the ground rules. This is NOT a doom and gloom post, I don't want to be known as that guy. Have I been critical? Yes, but it's not without merit. The differences this year have to do with personnel grouping. Last season Baker was at his best in "12 personnel", which is a 2 TE set. This was mostly done to protect, but also used the extra TE as a blocker for running plays.
So what are running mostly this year? Surely we'd run 12 personnel again this year, right? The same grouping that enabled our QB to set rookie records? Wrong. We're mostly running "11 personnel", which as you know is a single TE and, 1 RB, and 1 3 WRs. We're also running many longer routes running deeper down the field, and this is a mystery as we're struggling to protect.
Why aren't we running two TE sets this year? A lot of it has to do with our personnel. Obviously losing Njoku hurt, but TE was probably one of our weakest position groupings on the roster. For some reason, we cut or traded Devalve, Orson Charles, and Darren Fells. None of these 3 were ever going to be considered "good" but at least they knew the offense, and at least they sort of knew how to block.
We need to sign a blocking TE, and we need to do it NOW. Pharaoh Brown is borderline worthless, and blocking TEs are easier to find than receiving ones. We have to make a move and get back to what Baker knows.
Pharaoh Brown is borderline worthless
Is he worthy of such optimism?
NE used to play Mike Vrabel as an extra TE in the red zone and short yardage situations when their TE inventory was low. Is Bill Belichick the only coach on the planet that doesn't think it's rocket science to give someone on his defense a very doable role at TE?
We don't have anyone with a TE frame on our defense that could fill this role or H-Back/FB? It isn't like we're overworking Chad Thomas, Genard Avery, or Ricky Ticky Takitaki. Daniel Ekuale has a decent frame with the athleticism of a DE. We could even put Drew Forbes out there as a 2nd TE and use him primarily as an extra blocker. I'm sure he could learn a very short route or 2 in the process. Again, the alternative is Pharaoh Brown...
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Pharaoh Brown is borderline worthless
Is he worthy of such optimism?
NE used to play Mike Vrabel as an extra TE in the red zone and short yardage situations when their TE inventory was low. Is Bill Belichick the only coach on the planet that doesn't think it's rocket science to give someone on his defense a very doable role at TE?
We don't have anyone with a TE frame on our defense that could fill this role or H-Back/FB? It isn't like we're overworking Chad Thomas, Genard Avery, or Ricky Ticky Takitaki. Daniel Ekuale has a decent frame with the athleticism of a DE. We could even put Drew Forbes out there as a 2nd TE and use him primarily as an extra blocker. I'm sure he could learn a very short route or 2 in the process. Again, the alternative is Pharaoh Brown...
Is he worthy of such optimism?
LOL, I know he's pretty rough.
But I will try to sprinkle in a bit of good news. Ricky Seal-Jones was a gigantic WR recruit, 5 star prospect, and has converted to TE. He can definitely make plays down the field, and while he wont block anyone, he's definitely a threat to catch passes, long passes too. Wouldn't surprise me if he had himself a decent day. I thought he was on his way to producing last week, as he caught a gorgeous ball early from Baker for around 15 yards, but I don't think we heard from him again.
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Take away all of the ridiculous, absurd and ludicrous off season hype and expectations, and I would think that every single person here would be absolutely stoked with a chance to get to 2-2 with a share of the division lead all while beating the ratturds in less than 24hrs.
Some of you need to stop reading, listening to and watching "sports talk" shit shows and remember that this team is still measured in months when talking about how long they are removed from being a 1-31 team.
If they put together 4 good quarters of football tomorrow, then I look forward to clicking on the several "Browns are going to the SB" threads.............
If they put together 4 good quarters of football tomorrow, then I look forward to clicking on the several "Browns are going to the SB" threads.............
I don’t....?
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I don’t....?
Oh God, I would LOVE to click on those links! ?
It's funny, this is the biggest game we've had in quite a while. The last game of the quarter, a chance to claim 1st place in division, and most importantly, a chance to get back on track. Seriously, can you think of two more different narratives of we win vs lose? It would literally be "going to the playoffs" vs "let's start discussing the draft". And the scary thing is...both might be RIGHT. That's how important this game is, and also why so many Browns fans were so distraught last week.
You really can't say a loss doesn't destroy our chances (for the most part) cuz beating the Seahawks, Patriots, 49's, and the 85 Bears won't be easy. Does it literally crush us? Nah, not really, but IF we lose we MUST SCORE POINTS. The one thing that just can't happen is us crapping the bed on offense because that's going to continue the awful narratives of our coach and QB sucking and we desperately need to move beyond that.
COME ON BROWNIES!
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Pharaoh Brown is borderline worthless
Is he worthy of such optimism?
NE used to play Mike Vrabel as an extra TE in the red zone and short yardage situations when their TE inventory was low. Is Bill Belichick the only coach on the planet that doesn't think it's rocket science to give someone on his defense a very doable role at TE?
We don't have anyone with a TE frame on our defense that could fill this role or H-Back/FB? It isn't like we're overworking Chad Thomas, Genard Avery, or Ricky Ticky Takitaki. Daniel Ekuale has a decent frame with the athleticism of a DE. We could even put Drew Forbes out there as a 2nd TE and use him primarily as an extra blocker. I'm sure he could learn a very short route or 2 in the process. Again, the alternative is Pharaoh Brown...
Is he worthy of such optimism?
NE used to play Mike Vrabel as an extra TE in the red zone and short yardage situations when their TE inventory was low. Is Bill Belichick the only coach on the planet that doesn't think it's rocket science to give someone on his defense a very doable role at TE?
We don't have anyone with a TE frame on our defense that could fill this role or H-Back/FB? It isn't like we're overworking Chad Thomas, Genard Avery, or Ricky Ticky Takitaki. Daniel Ekuale has a decent frame with the athleticism of a DE. We could even put Drew Forbes out there as a 2nd TE and use him primarily as an extra blocker. I'm sure he could learn a very short route or 2 in the process. Again, the alternative is Pharaoh Brown...
IMHO, Pharaoh should be where most other Pharaohs are......buried in a desert MANY miles from Cleveland.
Mike
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Is he worthy of such optimism?
NE used to play Mike Vrabel as an extra TE in the red zone and short yardage situations when their TE inventory was low. Is Bill Belichick the only coach on the planet that doesn't think it's rocket science to give someone on his defense a very doable role at TE?
We don't have anyone with a TE frame on our defense that could fill this role or H-Back/FB? It isn't like we're overworking Chad Thomas, Genard Avery, or Ricky Ticky Takitaki. Daniel Ekuale has a decent frame with the athleticism of a DE. We could even put Drew Forbes out there as a 2nd TE and use him primarily as an extra blocker. I'm sure he could learn a very short route or 2 in the process. Again, the alternative is Pharaoh Brown...
IMHO, Pharaoh should be where most other Pharaohs are......buried in a desert MANY miles from Cleveland.
Mike
IMHO, Pharaoh should be where most other Pharaohs are......buried in a desert MANY miles from Cleveland.
Mike
Speakin' of deserts, y'all hear 'bout the Ag who joined the French Foreign Legion? He joined up to see the world, but got posted to some shithole country where the ole Sgt Maj picked him up and rode him on their old camel Sara back to the outpost some 50 miles into the desert. 'Bout a week went by and our dear Ag friend finally asked the ole Sgt Maj what troops did for sex that far out. The ole Sgt Maj points over to the corral and tells him they always used Sara. The Ag thinks to himself that'll never happen but 'bout a week more goes by when the ole Sgt Maj is making his nightly rounds when low and behold he spots in his flashlight beam our pour Ag on a step stool up behind ole Sara. "What the hell are you doin'?" he asks. "Well you told me everybody uses Sara Sgt Maj." "Well sure we do you idiot, to ride the 50 miles back to the whorehouse in town!"??
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