So whats wrong with Baker?
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How many of the interceptions were tipped into the defenders hands? Receiver with the kind of notoriety our receivers have should catch anything that touches their fingers.
WSS
WRs haven't helped him but most of those were thrown behind guys. As an OU fan I didn't like drafting Baker because this is what I was afraid of.
WRs haven't helped him but most of those were thrown behind guys. As an OU fan I didn't like drafting Baker because this is what I was afraid of.
That's the difference between an elite receiver and a journeyman.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
I’m not sure if most of the people complaining about Baker have been fans long enough to remember actually watching some of the QB’s the Browns have trotted out there....
Baker on a three interception day, still looks 100% better than anything the Browns have put out there in about 15 years (and that’s included horseballs Derek Anderson’s year)
I’m just glad the team can stop drafting QB’s in the 1st round for a while and keep building a good team.
Baker does need to play better, and make much better decisions on when and where to take chances, but I’ve seen enough to let him start for the next 3-5 seasons without putting a significant investment in a replacement.
I’m not sure if most of the people complaining about Baker have been fans long enough to remember actually watching some of the QB’s the Browns have trotted out there....
Baker on a three interception day, still looks 100% better than anything the Browns have put out there in about 15 years (and that’s included horseballs Derek Anderson’s year)
I’m just glad the team can stop drafting QB’s in the 1st round for a while and keep building a good team.
Baker does need to play better, and make much better decisions on when and where to take chances, but I’ve seen enough to let him start for the next 3-5 seasons without putting a significant investment in a replacement.
Rare for even the best QB's to be elite from day one in the NFL. Always a steep learning curve the first 3-4 years. I'm not worried about him in the longer run.
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I’m not sure if most of the people complaining about Baker have been fans long enough to remember actually watching some of the QB’s the Browns have trotted out there....
Baker on a three interception day, still looks 100% better than anything the Browns have put out there in about 15 years (and that’s included horseballs Derek Anderson’s year)
I’m just glad the team can stop drafting QB’s in the 1st round for a while and keep building a good team.
Baker does need to play better, and make much better decisions on when and where to take chances, but I’ve seen enough to let him start for the next 3-5 seasons without putting a significant investment in a replacement.
I’m not sure if most of the people complaining about Baker have been fans long enough to remember actually watching some of the QB’s the Browns have trotted out there....
Baker on a three interception day, still looks 100% better than anything the Browns have put out there in about 15 years (and that’s included horseballs Derek Anderson’s year)
I’m just glad the team can stop drafting QB’s in the 1st round for a while and keep building a good team.
Baker does need to play better, and make much better decisions on when and where to take chances, but I’ve seen enough to let him start for the next 3-5 seasons without putting a significant investment in a replacement.
I've watched every single QB since '99. Baker last year was the best one since then but this year he's becoming similar to many of them which I think is due to poor QB coaching this year. Statistically in the first 6 games he's indistinguishable from some of the worst we've had but I think better coaching will improve that.
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You guys know waaaay more about his history and tendencies from college.
From this year to last year everything looks forced. We dont run the ball enough...
We turnover the ball too damn much...
Baker needs to stfu and focus and get better.
We need ward and greedy back.
Remember the Ward article about his dad telling him to make sure they learn your name...well the only people who have learned it are the nurses at city hospital.
We are a team of superior talented under achievers...
Kitchens sucks...I cant tell if its a press conference or a Farm and field report on Wqed.
Get a clue...run the effin ball in the redzone.
/rant off
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Antonio Cromartie, db, said something interesting - he said Baker is really talented, but is pressing to get the ball to Landry and OBJ too much, when it isn't there. Thinking about that, I think he's right. Teams double on OBJ, obviously, and Baker has still thrown the ball his way, when he had shorter, open receivers to throw to. It's bit him in the backside, as well as the Browns offense, here and there. As great as they both are...it probably isn't a high percent success rate they are going to get doing that.
They will fix that.
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I’m not sure if most of the people complaining about Baker have been fans long enough to remember actually watching some of the QB’s the Browns have trotted out there....
Baker on a three interception day, still looks 100% better than anything the Browns have put out there in about 15 years (and that’s included horseballs Derek Anderson’s year)
I’m just glad the team can stop drafting QB’s in the 1st round for a while and keep building a good team.
Baker does need to play better, and make much better decisions on when and where to take chances, but I’ve seen enough to let him start for the next 3-5 seasons without putting a significant investment in a replacement.
I've watched every single QB since '99. Baker last year was the best one since then but this year he's becoming similar to many of them which I think is due to poor QB coaching this year. Statistically in the first 6 games he's indistinguishable from some of the worst we've had but I think better coaching will improve that.
I've watched every single QB since '99. Baker last year was the best one since then but this year he's becoming similar to many of them which I think is due to poor QB coaching this year. Statistically in the first 6 games he's indistinguishable from some of the worst we've had but I think better coaching will improve that.
But the browns passed on so much talent. They have had high picks for many years. I liked the guy from Clemson. Composed and athletic.
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I’m not sure if most of the people complaining about Baker have been fans long enough to remember actually watching some of the QB’s the Browns have trotted out there....
Baker on a three interception day, still looks 100% better than anything the Browns have put out there in about 15 years (and that’s included horseballs Derek Anderson’s year)
I’m just glad the team can stop drafting QB’s in the 1st round for a while and keep building a good team.
Baker does need to play better, and make much better decisions on when and where to take chances, but I’ve seen enough to let him start for the next 3-5 seasons without putting a significant investment in a replacement.
I've watched every single QB since '99. Baker last year was the best one since then but this year he's becoming similar to many of them which I think is due to poor QB coaching this year. Statistically in the first 6 games he's indistinguishable from some of the worst we've had but I think better coaching will improve that.
I've watched every single QB since '99. Baker last year was the best one since then but this year he's becoming similar to many of them which I think is due to poor QB coaching this year. Statistically in the first 6 games he's indistinguishable from some of the worst we've had but I think better coaching will improve that.
I’m not even talking about his stats. For me it’s just the way he throws the ball, it comes out like a NFL QB should throw the ball. Some of his throws that drop into WR’s hands 20 yards down the field through a 2x2 window.
I once watch the fabled Brandon Weeden throw a pass to the WR so poorly he got called for intentional grounding...
I’m never going back to those days. Never.
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Yet today Mahomes throws a bomb into tight double coverage, and gets away with pure luck. Face it, the Browns were extremely unlucky today. Catchable balls that became interceptions, and drive sustaining penalties against the Browns, and one crappy call against Landry that were drive killers.
I went fishing all day and didn't even consider watching the game. I felt confident Browns would play better but come up short. We're not the better team and we're not good enough to beat hardly anybody. Our team is simply cursed, and it's just the way it is. The fact we can't win a game at home might be the saddest shit in the league. All those poor people who bought into the hype. All those people who leave wondering if they will get their money back after selling the rest of their season tickets on StubHub. I won't lie, I had to laugh when I heard all hysterical things that happened today. You just can't make it up. Lol. Go Browns, the lovable losers who have thrown yet another season away.
I went fishing all day and didn't even consider watching the game. I felt confident Browns would play better but come up short. We're not the better team and we're not good enough to beat hardly anybody. Our team is simply cursed, and it's just the way it is. The fact we can't win a game at home might be the saddest shit in the league. All those poor people who bought into the hype. All those people who leave wondering if they will get their money back after selling the rest of their season tickets on StubHub. I won't lie, I had to laugh when I heard all hysterical things that happened today. You just can't make it up. Lol. Go Browns, the lovable losers who have thrown yet another season away.
Yea, but the mighty Rams lost 3 in a row and look weak, KC lost 2 in a row, at home. Dallas lost to the Jets....SF and NE look like the only King Kongs but you know they will lose soon (maybe not NE). The biggest problem is the franchise structure and stability, or lack thereof. When this team hits those shaky stretches, they don't know how to batten down the hatches and endure. Baker has thumbed his nose at all adversity in his life, so far. He assumed he could just do it again in the NFL - he beat the odds everywhere else, so why not? Combine the young, cocky kid at QB, a first-time ever head coach (never was so much a coordinator until now, on any level) and an owner who never seemed to learn about the value of stability, and, well, this is what you get. Is it correctable? I'm not sure. Can the team ever achieve success with this owner? Will Snyder ever win in DC? It's tough with an owner who messes so much up. If you constantly re-boot your computer, can you ever make progress?
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I went fishing all day and didn't even consider watching the game. I felt confident Browns would play better but come up short. We're not the better team and we're not good enough to beat hardly anybody. Our team is simply cursed, and it's just the way it is. The fact we can't win a game at home might be the saddest shit in the league. All those poor people who bought into the hype. All those people who leave wondering if they will get their money back after selling the rest of their season tickets on StubHub. I won't lie, I had to laugh when I heard all hysterical things that happened today. You just can't make it up. Lol. Go Browns, the lovable losers who have thrown yet another season away.
Yea, but the mighty Rams lost 3 in a row and look weak, KC lost 2 in a row, at home. Dallas lost to the Jets....SF and NE look like the only King Kongs but you know they will lose soon (maybe not NE). The biggest problem is the franchise structure and stability, or lack thereof. When this team hits those shaky stretches, they don't know how to batten down the hatches and endure. Baker has thumbed his nose at all adversity in his life, so far. He assumed he could just do it again in the NFL - he beat the odds everywhere else, so why not? Combine the young, cocky kid at QB, a first-time ever head coach (never was so much a coordinator until now, on any level) and an owner who never seemed to learn about the value of stability, and, well, this is what you get. Is it correctable? I'm not sure. Can the team ever achieve success with this owner? Will Snyder ever win in DC? It's tough with an owner who messes so much up. If you constantly re-boot your computer, can you ever make progress?
If you constantly re-boot your computer, can you ever make progress?
Even though I'm beyond frustrated, I don't want to blow it up. But Haslam isn't happy right now, and he probably feels like his team is good enough to make a run, but he's not totally sure if his COACH is good enough. This is all make believe stuff from my brain, but I'm guessing I'm right on. I just want to win man...and win at home. I HATE seeing our fans that dejected every game. I've seen enough of that shit to last me a lifetime.
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I went fishing all day and didn't even consider watching the game. I felt confident Browns would play better but come up short. We're not the better team and we're not good enough to beat hardly anybody. Our team is simply cursed, and it's just the way it is. The fact we can't win a game at home might be the saddest shit in the league. All those poor people who bought into the hype. All those people who leave wondering if they will get their money back after selling the rest of their season tickets on StubHub. I won't lie, I had to laugh when I heard all hysterical things that happened today. You just can't make it up. Lol. Go Browns, the lovable losers who have thrown yet another season away.
Yea, but the mighty Rams lost 3 in a row and look weak, KC lost 2 in a row, at home. Dallas lost to the Jets....SF and NE look like the only King Kongs but you know they will lose soon (maybe not NE). The biggest problem is the franchise structure and stability, or lack thereof. When this team hits those shaky stretches, they don't know how to batten down the hatches and endure. Baker has thumbed his nose at all adversity in his life, so far. He assumed he could just do it again in the NFL - he beat the odds everywhere else, so why not? Combine the young, cocky kid at QB, a first-time ever head coach (never was so much a coordinator until now, on any level) and an owner who never seemed to learn about the value of stability, and, well, this is what you get. Is it correctable? I'm not sure. Can the team ever achieve success with this owner? Will Snyder ever win in DC? It's tough with an owner who messes so much up. If you constantly re-boot your computer, can you ever make progress?
Yea, but the mighty Rams lost 3 in a row and look weak, KC lost 2 in a row, at home. Dallas lost to the Jets....SF and NE look like the only King Kongs but you know they will lose soon (maybe not NE). The biggest problem is the franchise structure and stability, or lack thereof. When this team hits those shaky stretches, they don't know how to batten down the hatches and endure. Baker has thumbed his nose at all adversity in his life, so far. He assumed he could just do it again in the NFL - he beat the odds everywhere else, so why not? Combine the young, cocky kid at QB, a first-time ever head coach (never was so much a coordinator until now, on any level) and an owner who never seemed to learn about the value of stability, and, well, this is what you get. Is it correctable? I'm not sure. Can the team ever achieve success with this owner? Will Snyder ever win in DC? It's tough with an owner who messes so much up. If you constantly re-boot your computer, can you ever make progress?
Exactly- there were high expectations coming into the season- and the team hasn't lived up to them- yet. Hence mega frustration and doom & gloom from some quarters. As you mentioned, the only teams playing like Super Bowl hopefuls to date are the Pats and 49ers. I've said it elsewhere- the Ravens are due a reality check when they start playing playoff caliber teams. I won't be shocked if 8-8 will be good enough to win the AFC North. I've got the Ratbirds penciled in for maybe 7 or 8 losses the rest of the way out. Steelers? Did they find their mojo, or are the Chargers that bad? I'm more worried about Pittsburgh than Baltimore, winning like that with a backup qb was mighty impressive.
Regarding Baker- I think he's learning pretty fast it's not as easy as it was last year when everyone has you targeted for their best shot.
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WRs haven't helped him but most of those were thrown behind guys. As an OU fan I didn't like drafting Baker because this is what I was afraid of.
That's the difference between an elite receiver and a journeyman.
WSS
That's the difference between an elite receiver and a journeyman.
WSS
That's the difference between an elite QB and a journeyman.
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Btw, I re-watched game and I'm again completely shocked by three things.
1. Baker's uncomfortability at going deep. He threw the one to OBJ that was a circus catch, but even that was woefully unerthrown. Baker once again missed OBJ deep for yet another touchdown. Granted, it was 4th and 7, but Baker still threw it to a severely covered Landry. It was an AMAZING throw and catch, and I'm not complaining one bit about that, but Jesus Christ Mayfield. LET IT RIP TO THE DEEP THREAT. For the love of God, throw the ball down the field at least once per quarter. OBJ was disgustingly open, and we don't throw it deep NEAR enough. We had great protection...stretch the effing field. Baker simply doesn't throw touchdown passes, and we HAVE to figure it out or we won't win consistently.
2. Our missed XP was the catalyst to our undoing. After that, we went STRAIGHT into circle-jerk mode and we fumbled, intercepted, missed tackled, and blocked punted our way to a loss. I mean we couldn't force a fart without changing our underwear, and that kick...that one stupid XP was our undoing.
3. We got beat by the MVP of the league, and that just sucks for us. Some of the plays Russell Wilson made were just bonkers. Whenever they needed a play, he made it. 2nd and 22? No problem. 3rd and goal? He's your man. Gordian Knot? You got it. I mean it was UNCANNY how just about every time they needed magic, Russell made it happen.
Tough loss against a mighty foe. Seahawks have too many problems on defense to go all the way, but they'll always have a chance with Russ.
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This hasn't yet been mentioned & is just a thought, but could Baker have an undisclosed injury he is trying to play through? Say, maybe a shoulder? He has taken a load of hard hits so far this season & pre-season.
An injury could explain loss of accuracy & reluctance to throw deep.
Mike
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Yea, but the mighty Rams lost 3 in a row and look weak, KC lost 2 in a row, at home. Dallas lost to the Jets....SF and NE look like the only King Kongs but you know they will lose soon (maybe not NE). The biggest problem is the franchise structure and stability, or lack thereof. When this team hits those shaky stretches, they don't know how to batten down the hatches and endure. Baker has thumbed his nose at all adversity in his life, so far. He assumed he could just do it again in the NFL - he beat the odds everywhere else, so why not? Combine the young, cocky kid at QB, a first-time ever head coach (never was so much a coordinator until now, on any level) and an owner who never seemed to learn about the value of stability, and, well, this is what you get. Is it correctable? I'm not sure. Can the team ever achieve success with this owner? Will Snyder ever win in DC? It's tough with an owner who messes so much up. If you constantly re-boot your computer, can you ever make progress?
Exactly- there were high expectations coming into the season- and the team hasn't lived up to them- yet. Hence mega frustration and doom & gloom from some quarters. As you mentioned, the only teams playing like Super Bowl hopefuls to date are the Pats and 49ers. I've said it elsewhere- the Ravens are due a reality check when they start playing playoff caliber teams. I won't be shocked if 8-8 will be good enough to win the AFC North. I've got the Ratbirds penciled in for maybe 7 or 8 losses the rest of the way out. Steelers? Did they find their mojo, or are the Chargers that bad? I'm more worried about Pittsburgh than Baltimore, winning like that with a backup qb was mighty impressive.
Regarding Baker- I think he's learning pretty fast it's not as easy as it was last year when everyone has you targeted for their best shot.
Exactly- there were high expectations coming into the season- and the team hasn't lived up to them- yet. Hence mega frustration and doom & gloom from some quarters. As you mentioned, the only teams playing like Super Bowl hopefuls to date are the Pats and 49ers. I've said it elsewhere- the Ravens are due a reality check when they start playing playoff caliber teams. I won't be shocked if 8-8 will be good enough to win the AFC North. I've got the Ratbirds penciled in for maybe 7 or 8 losses the rest of the way out. Steelers? Did they find their mojo, or are the Chargers that bad? I'm more worried about Pittsburgh than Baltimore, winning like that with a backup qb was mighty impressive.
Regarding Baker- I think he's learning pretty fast it's not as easy as it was last year when everyone has you targeted for their best shot.
Both, Pit play called great to protect Duck. LA still almost came back. The AFCN is so flawed. The Ravens are the best team and the Browns destroyed them. It's wide open.
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Btw, I re-watched game and I'm again completely shocked by three things.
1. Baker's uncomfortability at going deep. He threw the one to OBJ that was a circus catch, but even that was woefully unerthrown. Baker once again missed OBJ deep for yet another touchdown. Granted, it was 4th and 7, but Baker still threw it to a severely covered Landry. It was an AMAZING throw and catch, and I'm not complaining one bit about that, but Jesus Christ Mayfield. LET IT RIP TO THE DEEP THREAT. For the love of God, throw the ball down the field at least once per quarter. OBJ was disgustingly open, and we don't throw it deep NEAR enough. We had great protection...stretch the effing field. Baker simply doesn't throw touchdown passes, and we HAVE to figure it out or we won't win consistently.
2. Our missed XP was the catalyst to our undoing. After that, we went STRAIGHT into circle-jerk mode and we fumbled, intercepted, missed tackled, and blocked punted our way to a loss. I mean we couldn't force a fart without changing our underwear, and that kick...that one stupid XP was our undoing.
3. We got beat by the MVP of the league, and that just sucks for us. Some of the plays Russell Wilson made were just bonkers. Whenever they needed a play, he made it. 2nd and 22? No problem. 3rd and goal? He's your man. Gordian Knot? You got it. I mean it was UNCANNY how just about every time they needed magic, Russell made it happen.
Tough loss against a mighty foe. Seahawks have too many problems on defense to go all the way, but they'll always have a chance with Russ.
I mean we couldn't force a fart without changing our underwear, and that kick...that one stupid XP was our undoing.
If this is true, that a missed XP caused the Browns to spiral out of control, then this team is one mentally-weak, fragile group.
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I mean we couldn't force a fart without changing our underwear, and that kick...that one stupid XP was our undoing.
If this is true, that a missed XP caused the Browns to spiral out of control, then this team is one mentally-weak, fragile group.
If this is true, that a missed XP caused the Browns to spiral out of control, then this team is one mentally-weak, fragile group.
I mean, obviously I don't KNOW that, but up to that point we looked like the definition of ass-kickers. Remember that Baltimore game a few years back when we jumped all over them, Corey Coleman actually had a great game, and we got up like 20-0, but missed the last XP and it went to crap? It might seem ridiculous, but those missed XPs kind of deflate the team I think.
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Look how bad he is actually playing: 56% pass completion, 61 QB rating. Duck from Pitt - the undrafted rookie - has superior #'s: 75%, 91 rating. Come on. Baker was the 1st pick of the entire draft, and a 56% is what he brings you?
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think more comprehensively, grasshopper. The Browns oline has struggled at both tackle spots. HIggins, Calloway and Njoku
have been out. After last year, Baker is the object of serious defensive attention. It's more complicated that just stats of the qb.
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Interesting article, h... nice OP... but I still think the article is significantly over-complicating things.
Look at it's play one and you see from the endzone cam that Baker's sight line gets cut off... he bales looking for lanes he can see thru and then throw thru. And once he finds one then he throws a strike to RSJ.
This is happening a lot between the OTs and the difference there? No Zeitler...
Where last year there were clear site/throw lanes big enough to see multiple WR strides... now there are slits producing flashes... and inaccurate throws. Sunday's last throw behind Hilliard is Exhibit A.
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What if Baker's tipped passes or bobbled passes are caught? How many touchdowns, yards, first downs and interceptions change numbers? Anybody care enough to look into this or are we just content to keep bitching about QBs? Don't speak another QB debacle into place or talk yourselves into more gloom and doom. Baker is good. The Browns are good. We steal one back from the Patriots and clean up against the Broncos and we're back to 4-4 and looking WHITE HOT with Hunt and Njoku returning and entering the back nine. It's nut up or shut up time.
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