Both of our QB's SUCK
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Dam stan chill out man!
What did you expect with DA going from waived in baltimore to the browns bench untrained and then the unexpected starter in chuds crud static 1 WR system to a more complex genuine ball control balanced attack system...Both DA and BQ came from a shoddy regime and we need to hope BQ can shake off 3 years of bench rust and being tudored by dorsey a guy that cant even play the game..and DA should have never been allowed to get on the pro field as a starter until his staredown problem was fixed...so lets give them some time to adjust to a real football enviroment with a real gameplan and staff i think both these guys will be fine once they adjust...
Dam stan chill out man!
What did you expect with DA going from waived in baltimore to the browns bench untrained and then the unexpected starter in chuds crud static 1 WR system to a more complex genuine ball control balanced attack system...Both DA and BQ came from a shoddy regime and we need to hope BQ can shake off 3 years of bench rust and being tudored by dorsey a guy that cant even play the game..and DA should have never been allowed to get on the pro field as a starter until his staredown problem was fixed...so lets give them some time to adjust to a real football enviroment with a real gameplan and staff i think both these guys will be fine once they adjust...
That was convincing ... you started the paragraph telling me I was stupid for expecting anything from a bench player, that both QB's are coming out from under a shoddy regime ... you tossed in the word 'hope' that is the only real basis of your post ... dis Anderson again, the guy B.Queen can't seem to beat-out ... and end telling us that everything will be fine.
(How long until the Bloody Mary's erase our QB problems/reality and I can 'hope' and 'dream' again?)
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Big Gay Ben is having a piss poor camp...throwing INT's and complaining of a weak arm.
Rumors have it P.Manning has been struggling.
I guess both of them suck too?
Listen, this is CAMP. There are a TON of things that effect how the QB's look:
1. They are still learning this new offense.
2. The OL has not even been settled yet.
3. They are trying players all over the place...so there is no tight timing with any of the WR's yet.
4. The WR's are still learning the offense/routes...so they are not always where they are supposed to be.
5. The DB's know it is going to be a pass play, so can anticipate.
6. They KNOW they won't get hit...so may hold onto the ball longer than usual
7. They are working on pass plays they NEED to work on...in other words working on the lesser aspects of their games
I could go on...but what is the point.
Both of these QB's have TONS of upside. They have more than enough talent for at least one (if not both) to be successful behind center if the OL and skills players do their jobs (block/run/catch).
I have no problem with EITHER of them starting..and as for some stupid VET coming in...to me that is nothing more than telling BOTH that they have no faith in them and is just taking up another roster spot that could be used for an extra DL or DB or WR. I for one will pass on that.
Am I going WOW over our QB's right now? No, certainly not. But I also understand that this is not the time to make snap judgements.
Wait until at least the 2nd pre-season game. At that point, we will have a much better understanding of what we have in our WR's, our OL, our RB's...and yes, our QB's.
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Dam stan chill out man!
What did you expect with DA going from waived in baltimore to the browns bench untrained and then the unexpected starter in chuds crud static 1 WR system to a more complex genuine ball control balanced attack system...Both DA and BQ came from a shoddy regime and we need to hope BQ can shake off 3 years of bench rust and being tudored by dorsey a guy that cant even play the game..and DA should have never been allowed to get on the pro field as a starter until his staredown problem was fixed...so lets give them some time to adjust to a real football enviroment with a real gameplan and staff i think both these guys will be fine once they adjust...
That was convincing ... you started the paragraph telling me I was stupid for expecting anything from a bench player, that both QB's are coming out from under a shoddy regime ... you tossed in the word 'hope' that is the only real basis of your post ... dis Anderson again, the guy B.Queen can't seem to beat-out ... and end telling us that everything will be fine.
(How long until the Bloody Mary's erase our QB problems/reality and I can 'hope' and 'dream' again?)
That was convincing ... you started the paragraph telling me I was stupid for expecting anything from a bench player, that both QB's are coming out from under a shoddy regime ... you tossed in the word 'hope' that is the only real basis of your post ... dis Anderson again, the guy B.Queen can't seem to beat-out ... and end telling us that everything will be fine.
(How long until the Bloody Mary's erase our QB problems/reality and I can 'hope' and 'dream' again?)
Actually im not dumping on either of them... they both do suck right now because they are both like rookies especially BQ at least DA has almost 2 seasons and a probowl appearance under his belt yet his full potential hasnt even been close to realized because of the last regimes poor coaching/coordinating...my stance has always been a QB that stares his target down on a consistant basis isnt ready for primetime rather it be DA or any other QB its a fatally bad habit that even a poor defense can feed off of and no coach thats worth his weight in gold will let a QB with this flaw start...it is a very coachable problem with a simple solution..
And im not trying to convince anyone of anything just my thoughts..let the chips fall where they will..when/if mangini determines that BQ and or DA suck nutz and wants to bring someone else in im with the program i want to see the browns start winning...im just saying DA and BQ have potential but both have been in a bad system their whole pro careers it will take time the real question is if mangini deems it as time worth investing for either or both of them....
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WTF are we doing?
Serioulsy, why can't we ever bring in a veteran to push these young dumbass'es?
I went to Camp today with Riffer. He's a Quinn homo and still hangs onto that 'hope' and 'dream' that someday a pretty boy QB will make the front cover of the National mag's don'ing a Browns Jersey.
Screw that pipe dream! These guys are followers, back-ups, losers, never-was .....
Anderson and Quinn looked like shit today. As Riff stated, Anderson held the ball so long I blew my load and had a cigarette. Quinn panics and dumps passes through defenders arms that are just plain stupid throws. He puts touch on a balls that should be hammered home in a goal line set. He floats a ball when a receiver busts a seem and can't wait around for a delivery.
hold on a second ... I'm dry heaving.
We sit here day-in and day-out hanging on these two clowns. Where's Drew Bledsoe for $1-mil? Why are we stuck in an off-season with Brett Farve and Michael Vick? Where is the Vet that could out play these two kids with his eyes closed?
Seriously, stop embarrassing yourselves. Again as Riff stated, you might read or hear of a TD pass from one of these guys, but what the story fails to tell you is how one of our weakass DE's already busted in, stopped, and stared at the QB for two-seconds before that pass was ever even thought of being released. 3.5-seconds before it's launched. (I'm not exaggerating, although I wish I were)
OMG, I'm going to get sick.
Let's switch gears and talk about something else.
The receivers caught virtually EVERYTHING. Ok, a pass or so behind a TE was occasionally dropped. Rucker dropped a pass in one-on-one routes that was poor, but beyond that it was catch, after catch, after catch, after catch. much improved from recent years and definately the best ever while a Robiskie was on the field (that's a dig at the father ... settle down Buckeye fans).
The DB's seemed to play closer to the line from years past. Those that know me, know that I like that. I like me some bump-n-run. To tell you the truth, the biggest WR blunder tonight was Braylon not getting off the line on one one-on-one drill, he lined up again with a short break and stumbled again. I can't remember the DB in coverage (Riff?), but on the first attempt, the DB shoved Braylons head to to the ground and stopped him dead as he stumbled out of the blocks. the second time, Braylon stumbled on his own while attempting to fire off. The plays were consecutive, so they stuck out. Keep in mind, this was a one-on-one drill with just him, a DB, and his QB - with all the time in the world to run an elaborate route and get seperation. It's a WR drill, the DB's are typically hung out to dry with no help. Braylon, to his credit, made all the catches, but didn't look 100% with his legs under him.
Let's move on to the RB's ... i'm going to pick-up where I left off in years past in calling out Jamal Lewis. He don't look nearly as hungry as he did when he came here. I say he's washed up, and won't contribute much this season. I like James Davis a lot ... I keep thinking of Greg Pruitt when I see him. Not the moves and break-away (tear-away?) factor, but the type of body or build. He looks smooth. (Zippy, he is my 'Corey Bridges' take it for what it's worth). Harrison is over-rated. Guys (Harrison fags) c'mon, get serious. The guy is no where near taking it inside. He runs sideways behind the line. If we get him his 5-7 balls out in the flat with nothing but the end-zone 60-yards away, he may break it, or gain 40-50. But he's no every-down back. He's gay, and Jamal is the dancing bear. With those two and the two clown QB's, we will suck. Let's see what James Davis can do ... let's punt on third down (someone drown me).
Best Training Camp story ... honest to God, the Browns were practicing blocking punts tonight with Zastudil kicking. Each time, the DB came in uncontested and blocked the full-out punt off of Zastudil's foot. Is that crazy? I mean, it's cool that they are teaching/practicing it, but to use Zastudil for the drill? That's a dangerous drill on both sides.
We noticed that it didn't appear that we have any back-up FG kickers or Punters on the roster. On Special team drills, balls were launched by a back-up QB's arm, to simulate a punt/kick. That's a big change from previous camps.
I was a DA fag, and never really bought into the pretty boy, but have given up on both. I hate them.
WTF are we doing?
Serioulsy, why can't we ever bring in a veteran to push these young dumbass'es?
I went to Camp today with Riffer. He's a Quinn homo and still hangs onto that 'hope' and 'dream' that someday a pretty boy QB will make the front cover of the National mag's don'ing a Browns Jersey.
Screw that pipe dream! These guys are followers, back-ups, losers, never-was .....
Anderson and Quinn looked like shit today. As Riff stated, Anderson held the ball so long I blew my load and had a cigarette. Quinn panics and dumps passes through defenders arms that are just plain stupid throws. He puts touch on a balls that should be hammered home in a goal line set. He floats a ball when a receiver busts a seem and can't wait around for a delivery.
hold on a second ... I'm dry heaving.
We sit here day-in and day-out hanging on these two clowns. Where's Drew Bledsoe for $1-mil? Why are we stuck in an off-season with Brett Farve and Michael Vick? Where is the Vet that could out play these two kids with his eyes closed?
Seriously, stop embarrassing yourselves. Again as Riff stated, you might read or hear of a TD pass from one of these guys, but what the story fails to tell you is how one of our weakass DE's already busted in, stopped, and stared at the QB for two-seconds before that pass was ever even thought of being released. 3.5-seconds before it's launched. (I'm not exaggerating, although I wish I were)
OMG, I'm going to get sick.
Let's switch gears and talk about something else.
The receivers caught virtually EVERYTHING. Ok, a pass or so behind a TE was occasionally dropped. Rucker dropped a pass in one-on-one routes that was poor, but beyond that it was catch, after catch, after catch, after catch. much improved from recent years and definately the best ever while a Robiskie was on the field (that's a dig at the father ... settle down Buckeye fans).
The DB's seemed to play closer to the line from years past. Those that know me, know that I like that. I like me some bump-n-run. To tell you the truth, the biggest WR blunder tonight was Braylon not getting off the line on one one-on-one drill, he lined up again with a short break and stumbled again. I can't remember the DB in coverage (Riff?), but on the first attempt, the DB shoved Braylons head to to the ground and stopped him dead as he stumbled out of the blocks. the second time, Braylon stumbled on his own while attempting to fire off. The plays were consecutive, so they stuck out. Keep in mind, this was a one-on-one drill with just him, a DB, and his QB - with all the time in the world to run an elaborate route and get seperation. It's a WR drill, the DB's are typically hung out to dry with no help. Braylon, to his credit, made all the catches, but didn't look 100% with his legs under him.
Let's move on to the RB's ... i'm going to pick-up where I left off in years past in calling out Jamal Lewis. He don't look nearly as hungry as he did when he came here. I say he's washed up, and won't contribute much this season. I like James Davis a lot ... I keep thinking of Greg Pruitt when I see him. Not the moves and break-away (tear-away?) factor, but the type of body or build. He looks smooth. (Zippy, he is my 'Corey Bridges' take it for what it's worth). Harrison is over-rated. Guys (Harrison fags) c'mon, get serious. The guy is no where near taking it inside. He runs sideways behind the line. If we get him his 5-7 balls out in the flat with nothing but the end-zone 60-yards away, he may break it, or gain 40-50. But he's no every-down back. He's gay, and Jamal is the dancing bear. With those two and the two clown QB's, we will suck. Let's see what James Davis can do ... let's punt on third down (someone drown me).
Best Training Camp story ... honest to God, the Browns were practicing blocking punts tonight with Zastudil kicking. Each time, the DB came in uncontested and blocked the full-out punt off of Zastudil's foot. Is that crazy? I mean, it's cool that they are teaching/practicing it, but to use Zastudil for the drill? That's a dangerous drill on both sides.
We noticed that it didn't appear that we have any back-up FG kickers or Punters on the roster. On Special team drills, balls were launched by a back-up QB's arm, to simulate a punt/kick. That's a big change from previous camps.
I was a DA fag, and never really bought into the pretty boy, but have given up on both. I hate them.
At, can I offer you some perspective? I've only had a chance to pop in/pop out of camp this year. (Frankly, that's normal for me.) You see clips and bits online and through the TV coverage. But I can give you a couple of things to look for, that just may soothe your fury. A place where you can watch some good things get better. Two positive developments -- 1 for each quarterback this year.
Derek Anderson has obviously been working very hard on his "short-game". Watch any clip you can find from previous seasons, and remember what you saw today, or what you've seen this camp. Anderson's footwork on his short and flat throws is completely different, and much better.
If you recall, Derek Anderson used to hip slide to throw short. In essence, his feet remained pointed downfield, and he'd torque his upper body to the flat... or he'd load up on that back foot and kick his front foot around in his throwing motion... like a pitcher making a pickoff move.
Now, you can see Derek rotating his base, (and pretty fluidly for a big guy) and delivering the ball with a much more controlled motion. He's pivoting his entire base, replanting and throwing. This is a big deal for a veteran quarterback. It's like changing your golf swing 5 years into your PGA career.
And it's not going to be perfect right away. He's going to have mental lapses. He's going to come off of throws, when he pivots late, or forgets, or starts to lean back on old habits and catches himself. He's going to look deliberate, slow, too slow. Relax. New throwing motions take time.
By the same token, Brady Quinn has apparently been addressing his body lean on longer throws. Quinn, while in most cases a mechanical marvel, has regularly relied on a significant body lean to get the ball downfield. He would dip that back shoulder and sort of whip the ball downfield. Actually, much to Mike Holmgren's dismay, Brett Farve had a notorious lean when throwing long. It makes you shorter, slower, and exposes the football far too long.
This camp, it looks as though Quinn is working through the process of increasing his body rotation, but keeping his shoulders parallel to the ground. The downsides are similar... During camp, he's going to look deliberate, slow... he will undoubtedly flutter balls, miss targets.
Guys, you've got two quarterbacks undergoing some significant mechanical overhauls. Relax. Forget learning the new system. Unless your Peyton Manning, You're always learning a new system. Oh, wait, he IS learning a new system.
Try to make yourself feel better... watch the progress the two quarterbacks make in these two areas. By the time they get to the point where it looks fluid, you'll realize that their overall offensive performances have improved greatly.
It's only the first week boss.
-jj
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There is no perfect QB in this league. All QB make mistakes from time to time. It shows what kind of man you are if you can come back from those mistakes. We know DA can't. Big deal he has a great arm, that doesn't win very many football games. Play ball control offense and keep your defense on the off field so by the 4th there not so tried and worn out. The good QB are the smart ones and learn from there mistakes. Until DA learns from his mistakes he will always be a back up in this league. Just give BQ a shot to see what he can do. We already know what we have in DA and things are not going to change with him.
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freakin hilarious guys. this is why i come to this site. nothing like a ranting brownie to start the day. lol.
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WTF are we doing?
Serioulsy, why can't we ever bring in a veteran to push these young dumbass'es?
I went to Camp today with Riffer. He's a Quinn homo and still hangs onto that 'hope' and 'dream' that someday a pretty boy QB will make the front cover of the National mag's don'ing a Browns Jersey.
Screw that pipe dream! These guys are followers, back-ups, losers, never-was .....
Anderson and Quinn looked like shit today. As Riff stated, Anderson held the ball so long I blew my load and had a cigarette. Quinn panics and dumps passes through defenders arms that are just plain stupid throws. He puts touch on a balls that should be hammered home in a goal line set. He floats a ball when a receiver busts a seem and can't wait around for a delivery.
hold on a second ... I'm dry heaving.
We sit here day-in and day-out hanging on these two clowns. Where's Drew Bledsoe for $1-mil? Why are we stuck in an off-season with Brett Farve and Michael Vick? Where is the Vet that could out play these two kids with his eyes closed?
Seriously, stop embarrassing yourselves. Again as Riff stated, you might read or hear of a TD pass from one of these guys, but what the story fails to tell you is how one of our weakass DE's already busted in, stopped, and stared at the QB for two-seconds before that pass was ever even thought of being released. 3.5-seconds before it's launched. (I'm not exaggerating, although I wish I were)
OMG, I'm going to get sick.
Let's switch gears and talk about something else.
The receivers caught virtually EVERYTHING. Ok, a pass or so behind a TE was occasionally dropped. Rucker dropped a pass in one-on-one routes that was poor, but beyond that it was catch, after catch, after catch, after catch. much improved from recent years and definately the best ever while a Robiskie was on the field (that's a dig at the father ... settle down Buckeye fans).
The DB's seemed to play closer to the line from years past. Those that know me, know that I like that. I like me some bump-n-run. To tell you the truth, the biggest WR blunder tonight was Braylon not getting off the line on one one-on-one drill, he lined up again with a short break and stumbled again. I can't remember the DB in coverage (Riff?), but on the first attempt, the DB shoved Braylons head to to the ground and stopped him dead as he stumbled out of the blocks. the second time, Braylon stumbled on his own while attempting to fire off. The plays were consecutive, so they stuck out. Keep in mind, this was a one-on-one drill with just him, a DB, and his QB - with all the time in the world to run an elaborate route and get seperation. It's a WR drill, the DB's are typically hung out to dry with no help. Braylon, to his credit, made all the catches, but didn't look 100% with his legs under him.
Let's move on to the RB's ... i'm going to pick-up where I left off in years past in calling out Jamal Lewis. He don't look nearly as hungry as he did when he came here. I say he's washed up, and won't contribute much this season. I like James Davis a lot ... I keep thinking of Greg Pruitt when I see him. Not the moves and break-away (tear-away?) factor, but the type of body or build. He looks smooth. (Zippy, he is my 'Corey Bridges' take it for what it's worth). Harrison is over-rated. Guys (Harrison fags) c'mon, get serious. The guy is no where near taking it inside. He runs sideways behind the line. If we get him his 5-7 balls out in the flat with nothing but the end-zone 60-yards away, he may break it, or gain 40-50. But he's no every-down back. He's gay, and Jamal is the dancing bear. With those two and the two clown QB's, we will suck. Let's see what James Davis can do ... let's punt on third down (someone drown me).
Best Training Camp story ... honest to God, the Browns were practicing blocking punts tonight with Zastudil kicking. Each time, the DB came in uncontested and blocked the full-out punt off of Zastudil's foot. Is that crazy? I mean, it's cool that they are teaching/practicing it, but to use Zastudil for the drill? That's a dangerous drill on both sides.
We noticed that it didn't appear that we have any back-up FG kickers or Punters on the roster. On Special team drills, balls were launched by a back-up QB's arm, to simulate a punt/kick. That's a big change from previous camps.
I was a DA fag, and never really bought into the pretty boy, but have given up on both. I hate them.
At, can I offer you some perspective? I've only had a chance to pop in/pop out of camp this year. (Frankly, that's normal for me.) You see clips and bits online and through the TV coverage. But I can give you a couple of things to look for, that just may soothe your fury. A place where you can watch some good things get better. Two positive developments -- 1 for each quarterback this year.
Derek Anderson has obviously been working very hard on his "short-game". Watch any clip you can find from previous seasons, and remember what you saw today, or what you've seen this camp. Anderson's footwork on his short and flat throws is completely different, and much better.
If you recall, Derek Anderson used to hip slide to throw short. In essence, his feet remained pointed downfield, and he'd torque his upper body to the flat... or he'd load up on that back foot and kick his front foot around in his throwing motion... like a pitcher making a pickoff move.
Now, you can see Derek rotating his base, (and pretty fluidly for a big guy) and delivering the ball with a much more controlled motion. He's pivoting his entire base, replanting and throwing. This is a big deal for a veteran quarterback. It's like changing your golf swing 5 years into your PGA career.
And it's not going to be perfect right away. He's going to have mental lapses. He's going to come off of throws, when he pivots late, or forgets, or starts to lean back on old habits and catches himself. He's going to look deliberate, slow, too slow. Relax. New throwing motions take time.
By the same token, Brady Quinn has apparently been addressing his body lean on longer throws. Quinn, while in most cases a mechanical marvel, has regularly relied on a significant body lean to get the ball downfield. He would dip that back shoulder and sort of whip the ball downfield. Actually, much to Mike Holmgren's dismay, Brett Farve had a notorious lean when throwing long. It makes you shorter, slower, and exposes the football far too long.
This camp, it looks as though Quinn is working through the process of increasing his body rotation, but keeping his shoulders parallel to the ground. The downsides are similar... During camp, he's going to look deliberate, slow... he will undoubtedly flutter balls, miss targets.
Guys, you've got two quarterbacks undergoing some significant mechanical overhauls. Relax. Forget learning the new system. Unless your Peyton Manning, You're always learning a new system. Oh, wait, he IS learning a new system.
Try to make yourself feel better... watch the progress the two quarterbacks make in these two areas. By the time they get to the point where it looks fluid, you'll realize that their overall offensive performances have improved greatly.
It's only the first week boss.
-jj
At, can I offer you some perspective?
Derek Anderson has obviously been working very hard on his "short-game". Watch any clip you can find from previous seasons, and remember what you saw today, or what you've seen this camp. Anderson's footwork on his short and flat throws is completely different, and much better.
Jason, thanks for the generic (but long winded) token reply. I didn't come on here and rant because of an awkward screen pass or two. The guy had no clock in his head last night. Even in back-yard football without a rush, guys will scamper around for 7-seconds and throw the damn ball away because anything longer would just be unfair to a defense. This clown stays in there and actually keeps patting the ball like it's his mommy's tit and throws the ball down field and jogs up to the moved chains like he actually did something. Some Shmoke Twitters about it, and the Queen Nation gathers for a new counter spin as to why Brady is better (then they post about BQ's long ball, which leads us to your next lesson, below).
My problem ... take that back, everyone's problem with DA ain't in the torque of his upper body or the rotation of his base (as grovy and educated as that all sounds) it's in the touch he can't put on a pass. He's still bulleting passes downward, making for some very difficult catches.
No, I did not see improvement ... anywhere.
By the same token, Brady Quinn has apparently been addressing his body lean on longer throws. This camp, it looks as though Quinn is working through the process of increasing his body rotation, but keeping his shoulders parallel to the ground.
Again, I disagree. I never questioned the guys arm strength, but his balls don't come off pretty. In fact, he threw an absolute duck last night on one particular throw. He is not keeping his shoulders parallel to the ground, he's slinging it from behind the shadows of his line, he's dipping his back shoulder still. He's releasing the ball too low, and 'flicking' passes too often ... still.
The token rebuttal is that they are working on all of these things, no shit Sherlock. But that don't erase the problem. My rant is to let everyone know that DA is still DA and Brady is still Brady and that shouldn't make anyone comfortable enough to Twitter cheesey happy false progress, or report on some phantom tough-it-out competition. It is more-so about who is less worst.
Get back into camp and give us more than the basic text book things they should be working on. We want results.
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WTF are we doing?
Serioulsy, why can't we ever bring in a veteran to push these young dumbass'es?
I went to Camp today with Riffer. He's a Quinn homo and still hangs onto that 'hope' and 'dream' that someday a pretty boy QB will make the front cover of the National mag's don'ing a Browns Jersey.
Screw that pipe dream! These guys are followers, back-ups, losers, never-was .....
Anderson and Quinn looked like shit today. As Riff stated, Anderson held the ball so long I blew my load and had a cigarette. Quinn panics and dumps passes through defenders arms that are just plain stupid throws. He puts touch on a balls that should be hammered home in a goal line set. He floats a ball when a receiver busts a seem and can't wait around for a delivery.
hold on a second ... I'm dry heaving.
We sit here day-in and day-out hanging on these two clowns. Where's Drew Bledsoe for $1-mil? Why are we stuck in an off-season with Brett Farve and Michael Vick? Where is the Vet that could out play these two kids with his eyes closed?
Seriously, stop embarrassing yourselves. Again as Riff stated, you might read or hear of a TD pass from one of these guys, but what the story fails to tell you is how one of our weakass DE's already busted in, stopped, and stared at the QB for two-seconds before that pass was ever even thought of being released. 3.5-seconds before it's launched. (I'm not exaggerating, although I wish I were)
OMG, I'm going to get sick.
Let's switch gears and talk about something else.
The receivers caught virtually EVERYTHING. Ok, a pass or so behind a TE was occasionally dropped. Rucker dropped a pass in one-on-one routes that was poor, but beyond that it was catch, after catch, after catch, after catch. much improved from recent years and definately the best ever while a Robiskie was on the field (that's a dig at the father ... settle down Buckeye fans).
The DB's seemed to play closer to the line from years past. Those that know me, know that I like that. I like me some bump-n-run. To tell you the truth, the biggest WR blunder tonight was Braylon not getting off the line on one one-on-one drill, he lined up again with a short break and stumbled again. I can't remember the DB in coverage (Riff?), but on the first attempt, the DB shoved Braylons head to to the ground and stopped him dead as he stumbled out of the blocks. the second time, Braylon stumbled on his own while attempting to fire off. The plays were consecutive, so they stuck out. Keep in mind, this was a one-on-one drill with just him, a DB, and his QB - with all the time in the world to run an elaborate route and get seperation. It's a WR drill, the DB's are typically hung out to dry with no help. Braylon, to his credit, made all the catches, but didn't look 100% with his legs under him.
Let's move on to the RB's ... i'm going to pick-up where I left off in years past in calling out Jamal Lewis. He don't look nearly as hungry as he did when he came here. I say he's washed up, and won't contribute much this season. I like James Davis a lot ... I keep thinking of Greg Pruitt when I see him. Not the moves and break-away (tear-away?) factor, but the type of body or build. He looks smooth. (Zippy, he is my 'Corey Bridges' take it for what it's worth). Harrison is over-rated. Guys (Harrison fags) c'mon, get serious. The guy is no where near taking it inside. He runs sideways behind the line. If we get him his 5-7 balls out in the flat with nothing but the end-zone 60-yards away, he may break it, or gain 40-50. But he's no every-down back. He's gay, and Jamal is the dancing bear. With those two and the two clown QB's, we will suck. Let's see what James Davis can do ... let's punt on third down (someone drown me).
Best Training Camp story ... honest to God, the Browns were practicing blocking punts tonight with Zastudil kicking. Each time, the DB came in uncontested and blocked the full-out punt off of Zastudil's foot. Is that crazy? I mean, it's cool that they are teaching/practicing it, but to use Zastudil for the drill? That's a dangerous drill on both sides.
We noticed that it didn't appear that we have any back-up FG kickers or Punters on the roster. On Special team drills, balls were launched by a back-up QB's arm, to simulate a punt/kick. That's a big change from previous camps.
I was a DA fag, and never really bought into the pretty boy, but have given up on both. I hate them.
At, can I offer you some perspective? I've only had a chance to pop in/pop out of camp this year. (Frankly, that's normal for me.) You see clips and bits online and through the TV coverage. But I can give you a couple of things to look for, that just may soothe your fury. A place where you can watch some good things get better. Two positive developments -- 1 for each quarterback this year.
Derek Anderson has obviously been working very hard on his "short-game". Watch any clip you can find from previous seasons, and remember what you saw today, or what you've seen this camp. Anderson's footwork on his short and flat throws is completely different, and much better.
If you recall, Derek Anderson used to hip slide to throw short. In essence, his feet remained pointed downfield, and he'd torque his upper body to the flat... or he'd load up on that back foot and kick his front foot around in his throwing motion... like a pitcher making a pickoff move.
Now, you can see Derek rotating his base, (and pretty fluidly for a big guy) and delivering the ball with a much more controlled motion. He's pivoting his entire base, replanting and throwing. This is a big deal for a veteran quarterback. It's like changing your golf swing 5 years into your PGA career.
And it's not going to be perfect right away. He's going to have mental lapses. He's going to come off of throws, when he pivots late, or forgets, or starts to lean back on old habits and catches himself. He's going to look deliberate, slow, too slow. Relax. New throwing motions take time.
By the same token, Brady Quinn has apparently been addressing his body lean on longer throws. Quinn, while in most cases a mechanical marvel, has regularly relied on a significant body lean to get the ball downfield. He would dip that back shoulder and sort of whip the ball downfield. Actually, much to Mike Holmgren's dismay, Brett Farve had a notorious lean when throwing long. It makes you shorter, slower, and exposes the football far too long.
This camp, it looks as though Quinn is working through the process of increasing his body rotation, but keeping his shoulders parallel to the ground. The downsides are similar... During camp, he's going to look deliberate, slow... he will undoubtedly flutter balls, miss targets.
Guys, you've got two quarterbacks undergoing some significant mechanical overhauls. Relax. Forget learning the new system. Unless your Peyton Manning, You're always learning a new system. Oh, wait, he IS learning a new system.
Try to make yourself feel better... watch the progress the two quarterbacks make in these two areas. By the time they get to the point where it looks fluid, you'll realize that their overall offensive performances have improved greatly.
It's only the first week boss.
-jj
At, can I offer you some perspective? I've only had a chance to pop in/pop out of camp this year. (Frankly, that's normal for me.) You see clips and bits online and through the TV coverage. But I can give you a couple of things to look for, that just may soothe your fury. A place where you can watch some good things get better. Two positive developments -- 1 for each quarterback this year.
Derek Anderson has obviously been working very hard on his "short-game". Watch any clip you can find from previous seasons, and remember what you saw today, or what you've seen this camp. Anderson's footwork on his short and flat throws is completely different, and much better.
If you recall, Derek Anderson used to hip slide to throw short. In essence, his feet remained pointed downfield, and he'd torque his upper body to the flat... or he'd load up on that back foot and kick his front foot around in his throwing motion... like a pitcher making a pickoff move.
Now, you can see Derek rotating his base, (and pretty fluidly for a big guy) and delivering the ball with a much more controlled motion. He's pivoting his entire base, replanting and throwing. This is a big deal for a veteran quarterback. It's like changing your golf swing 5 years into your PGA career.
And it's not going to be perfect right away. He's going to have mental lapses. He's going to come off of throws, when he pivots late, or forgets, or starts to lean back on old habits and catches himself. He's going to look deliberate, slow, too slow. Relax. New throwing motions take time.
By the same token, Brady Quinn has apparently been addressing his body lean on longer throws. Quinn, while in most cases a mechanical marvel, has regularly relied on a significant body lean to get the ball downfield. He would dip that back shoulder and sort of whip the ball downfield. Actually, much to Mike Holmgren's dismay, Brett Farve had a notorious lean when throwing long. It makes you shorter, slower, and exposes the football far too long.
This camp, it looks as though Quinn is working through the process of increasing his body rotation, but keeping his shoulders parallel to the ground. The downsides are similar... During camp, he's going to look deliberate, slow... he will undoubtedly flutter balls, miss targets.
Guys, you've got two quarterbacks undergoing some significant mechanical overhauls. Relax. Forget learning the new system. Unless your Peyton Manning, You're always learning a new system. Oh, wait, he IS learning a new system.
Try to make yourself feel better... watch the progress the two quarterbacks make in these two areas. By the time they get to the point where it looks fluid, you'll realize that their overall offensive performances have improved greatly.
It's only the first week boss.
-jj
Ahhhhhhh........ A voice of reason.
With everything I have seen here each day about training camp, I have to go all A.I. "Practice! We're talking about practice"
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@shepwrite said:
I'm starting up a fund to pay the guy to post at least twice a day. I can't even fake knowing that much real stuff.I am willing to pay him in Scotch
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Jesus Atnears, for a relatively experienced fan of football, you sure don't have much self control 1 week into camp. Bitch bitch bitch.......
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At, can I offer you some perspective?
Derek Anderson has obviously been working very hard on his "short-game". Watch any clip you can find from previous seasons, and remember what you saw today, or what you've seen this camp. Anderson's footwork on his short and flat throws is completely different, and much better.
Jason, thanks for the generic (but long winded) token reply. I didn't come on here and rant because of an awkward screen pass or two. The guy had no clock in his head last night. Even in back-yard football without a rush, guys will scamper around for 7-seconds and throw the damn ball away because anything longer would just be unfair to a defense. This clown stays in there and actually keeps patting the ball like it's his mommy's tit and throws the ball down field and jogs up to the moved chains like he actually did something. Some Shmoke Twitters about it, and the Queen Nation gathers for a new counter spin as to why Brady is better (then they post about BQ's long ball, which leads us to your next lesson, below).
My problem ... take that back, everyone's problem with DA ain't in the torque of his upper body or the rotation of his base (as grovy and educated as that all sounds) it's in the touch he can't put on a pass. He's still bulleting passes downward, making for some very difficult catches.
No, I did not see improvement ... anywhere.
By the same token, Brady Quinn has apparently been addressing his body lean on longer throws. This camp, it looks as though Quinn is working through the process of increasing his body rotation, but keeping his shoulders parallel to the ground.
Again, I disagree. I never questioned the guys arm strength, but his balls don't come off pretty. In fact, he threw an absolute duck last night on one particular throw. He is not keeping his shoulders parallel to the ground, he's slinging it from behind the shadows of his line, he's dipping his back shoulder still. He's releasing the ball too low, and 'flicking' passes too often ... still.
The token rebuttal is that they are working on all of these things, no shit Sherlock. But that don't erase the problem. My rant is to let everyone know that DA is still DA and Brady is still Brady and that shouldn't make anyone comfortable enough to Twitter cheesey happy false progress, or report on some phantom tough-it-out competition. It is more-so about who is less worst.
Get back into camp and give us more than the basic text book things they should be working on. We want results.
Jason, thanks for the generic (but long winded) token reply. I didn't come on here and rant because of an awkward screen pass or two. The guy had no clock in his head last night. Even in back-yard football without a rush, guys will scamper around for 7-seconds and throw the damn ball away because anything longer would just be unfair to a defense. This clown stays in there and actually keeps patting the ball like it's his mommy's tit and throws the ball down field and jogs up to the moved chains like he actually did something. Some Shmoke Twitters about it, and the Queen Nation gathers for a new counter spin as to why Brady is better (then they post about BQ's long ball, which leads us to your next lesson, below).
My problem ... take that back, everyone's problem with DA ain't in the torque of his upper body or the rotation of his base (as grovy and educated as that all sounds) it's in the touch he can't put on a pass. He's still bulleting passes downward, making for some very difficult catches.
No, I did not see improvement ... anywhere.
Again, I disagree. I never questioned the guys arm strength, but his balls don't come off pretty. In fact, he threw an absolute duck last night on one particular throw. He is not keeping his shoulders parallel to the ground, he's slinging it from behind the shadows of his line, he's dipping his back shoulder still. He's releasing the ball too low, and 'flicking' passes too often ... still.
The token rebuttal is that they are working on all of these things, no shit Sherlock. But that don't erase the problem. My rant is to let everyone know that DA is still DA and Brady is still Brady and that shouldn't make anyone comfortable enough to Twitter cheesey happy false progress, or report on some phantom tough-it-out competition. It is more-so about who is less worst.
Get back into camp and give us more than the basic text book things they should be working on. We want results.
A.) I know no other way than long winded. B.) I resent the word "token" (both times). Which implies that somehow I did not think out my reply, but rather selected it from a shelf full of apologist-type responses. Neither of which is true. If I didn't see it, or think it, I wouldn't have posted it.
I'm simply offering a slightly different vantage point from which to view what you're seeing.
Dismissing what I'm saying out of hand, would be akin to accusing a defensive tackle who was ordered to drop 35 lbs. of appearing sluggish, or slow, or simply saying, "He sucks." Uh, actually, he's probably on a 2000 cal/day diet and is way short on carbs... then again he might suck, but let's see what it looks like through another lens.
I'm not saying at all that what you're seeing isn't lack of ability run amok. I'm only offering you a slightly different way of looking at it. Choose to, or choose not to, I'm just offering here.
And, while we're on the subject, what good does it do to blow the whistle on a play in 11 on 11 without having the ball thrown? I suppose you could have 'em line up and do it again, and again, until the ball comes out on time. But that would only be because the defense is too exhausted to keep up. That's why you let the play go. That's why you don't tag-down the quarterback in 11 on 11's. Otherwise you have receivers running routes and getting no reception reps, and defensive backs running on empty. You just don't have the physical ability to run that many reps.
You always play it out. That's why you put a red jersey on the guy. That's why (in most cases) you tell the DL's to keep their hands down. So you don't 1.) Accidentally catch a thrower's arm, and 2.) Waste a play by batting down a throw at the line.
The film will tell you all you need to know about the timing of the play. I think they're OK there. There are some very smart people on that staff... not to mention Anderson, Quinn, and Ratliff who are all reasonably bright. So let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater just yet.
And, OK, here goes... Anderson's problem is, in fact, the touch (or lack thereof) on short passes. Rotating his base is how you fix that... regardless of how groovy it sounds. Frankly, I would've thought him too big and awkward to make that change, but they appear to be trying it. Historically, a good portion of his lack of touch has to do with the fact that he throws those short passes 1.) as a last resort (read, "late"), and that he typically doesn't rotate his base to make them. He has historically dart-thrown flat passes to the right, i.e. toes parallel, pointed at the target. Try it. Then try to throw it softly. Then try to throw it halfway between softly and Nolan Ryan. Then do it from a two-hands chest-high ball position. Pull it back to the earhole, and try to hit a 12" target at 12 yards. Trust me, it's not easy.
Likewise, Anderson has generally pickoff-moved his throws to the left flat. That is shifted his weight to his back foot, then whipped his front leg toward the target as he's throwing. You can be accurate that way, but it's very difficult to control the velocity.
What he's doing now is (well, call it what you want) "rotating his base", "whipping his hips", "righting his feet", is going to give him a far better opportunity to make those throws more catchable. Whether or not he looks good doing it now.
Now, as far as Quinn is concerned... I have not seen what you call "releasing the ball too low." That's not to say it's not happening. I'm just saying I haven't seen it. As a matter of fact, I've seen far less of Quinn this training camp than I have Anderson. What I did see was some of the quarterback drills where they were specifically working on his body lean, both at the top of his drop and at the point of release.
Based on your description, and that of others, 2+2 leads me to believe he's having a few growing pains tightening up his mechanics.
And I've never really worried about quarterback's "flicking" the ball in close quarters... provided what you're describing is happening in throws covering under 10 yards.
Look, the point is, nobody gets to this level by sucking. Trust me, step on the field with the #3 quarterback on the 32nd best team in the NFL, and for 99.99% of us, he's the best quarterback we've shared an acre of turf with. These guys are ridiculously talented. We all owe them a little benefit of the doubt.
I tell every team I've ever coached, "It's hard to look good when you're fighting to get better." It's about getting it right, not making it pretty.
-jj
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Jason, thanks for the generic (but long winded) token reply. I didn't come on here and rant because of an awkward screen pass or two. The guy had no clock in his head last night. Even in back-yard football without a rush, guys will scamper around for 7-seconds and throw the damn ball away because anything longer would just be unfair to a defense. This clown stays in there and actually keeps patting the ball like it's his mommy's tit and throws the ball down field and jogs up to the moved chains like he actually did something. Some Shmoke Twitters about it, and the Queen Nation gathers for a new counter spin as to why Brady is better (then they post about BQ's long ball, which leads us to your next lesson, below).
My problem ... take that back, everyone's problem with DA ain't in the torque of his upper body or the rotation of his base (as grovy and educated as that all sounds) it's in the touch he can't put on a pass. He's still bulleting passes downward, making for some very difficult catches.
No, I did not see improvement ... anywhere.
Again, I disagree. I never questioned the guys arm strength, but his balls don't come off pretty. In fact, he threw an absolute duck last night on one particular throw. He is not keeping his shoulders parallel to the ground, he's slinging it from behind the shadows of his line, he's dipping his back shoulder still. He's releasing the ball too low, and 'flicking' passes too often ... still.
The token rebuttal is that they are working on all of these things, no shit Sherlock. But that don't erase the problem. My rant is to let everyone know that DA is still DA and Brady is still Brady and that shouldn't make anyone comfortable enough to Twitter cheesey happy false progress, or report on some phantom tough-it-out competition. It is more-so about who is less worst.
Get back into camp and give us more than the basic text book things they should be working on. We want results.
A.) I know no other way than long winded. B.) I resent the word "token" (both times). Which implies that somehow I did not think out my reply, but rather selected it from a shelf full of apologist-type responses. Neither of which is true. If I didn't see it, or think it, I wouldn't have posted it.
I'm simply offering a slightly different vantage point from which to view what you're seeing.
Dismissing what I'm saying out of hand, would be akin to accusing a defensive tackle who was ordered to drop 35 lbs. of appearing sluggish, or slow, or simply saying, "He sucks." Uh, actually, he's probably on a 2000 cal/day diet and is way short on carbs... then again he might suck, but let's see what it looks like through another lens.
I'm not saying at all that what you're seeing isn't lack of ability run amok. I'm only offering you a slightly different way of looking at it. Choose to, or choose not to, I'm just offering here.
And, while we're on the subject, what good does it do to blow the whistle on a play in 11 on 11 without having the ball thrown? I suppose you could have 'em line up and do it again, and again, until the ball comes out on time. But that would only be because the defense is too exhausted to keep up. That's why you let the play go. That's why you don't tag-down the quarterback in 11 on 11's. Otherwise you have receivers running routes and getting no reception reps, and defensive backs running on empty. You just don't have the physical ability to run that many reps.
You always play it out. That's why you put a red jersey on the guy. That's why (in most cases) you tell the DL's to keep their hands down. So you don't 1.) Accidentally catch a thrower's arm, and 2.) Waste a play by batting down a throw at the line.
The film will tell you all you need to know about the timing of the play. I think they're OK there. There are some very smart people on that staff... not to mention Anderson, Quinn, and Ratliff who are all reasonably bright. So let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater just yet.
And, OK, here goes... Anderson's problem is, in fact, the touch (or lack thereof) on short passes. Rotating his base is how you fix that... regardless of how groovy it sounds. Frankly, I would've thought him too big and awkward to make that change, but they appear to be trying it. Historically, a good portion of his lack of touch has to do with the fact that he throws those short passes 1.) as a last resort (read, "late"), and that he typically doesn't rotate his base to make them. He has historically dart-thrown flat passes to the right, i.e. toes parallel, pointed at the target. Try it. Then try to throw it softly. Then try to throw it halfway between softly and Nolan Ryan. Then do it from a two-hands chest-high ball position. Pull it back to the earhole, and try to hit a 12" target at 12 yards. Trust me, it's not easy.
Likewise, Anderson has generally pickoff-moved his throws to the left flat. That is shifted his weight to his back foot, then whipped his front leg toward the target as he's throwing. You can be accurate that way, but it's very difficult to control the velocity.
What he's doing now is (well, call it what you want) "rotating his base", "whipping his hips", "righting his feet", is going to give him a far better opportunity to make those throws more catchable. Whether or not he looks good doing it now.
Now, as far as Quinn is concerned... I have not seen what you call "releasing the ball too low." That's not to say it's not happening. I'm just saying I haven't seen it. As a matter of fact, I've seen far less of Quinn this training camp than I have Anderson. What I did see was some of the quarterback drills where they were specifically working on his body lean, both at the top of his drop and at the point of release.
Based on your description, and that of others, 2+2 leads me to believe he's having a few growing pains tightening up his mechanics.
And I've never really worried about quarterback's "flicking" the ball in close quarters... provided what you're describing is happening in throws covering under 10 yards.
Look, the point is, nobody gets to this level by sucking. Trust me, step on the field with the #3 quarterback on the 32nd best team in the NFL, and for 99.99% of us, he's the best quarterback we've shared an acre of turf with. These guys are ridiculously talented. We all owe them a little benefit of the doubt.
I tell every team I've ever coached, "It's hard to look good when you're fighting to get better." It's about getting it right, not making it pretty.
-jj
A.) I know no other way than long winded. B.) I resent the word "token" (both times). Which implies that somehow I did not think out my reply, but rather selected it from a shelf full of apologist-type responses. Neither of which is true. If I didn't see it, or think it, I wouldn't have posted it.
I'm simply offering a slightly different vantage point from which to view what you're seeing.
Dismissing what I'm saying out of hand, would be akin to accusing a defensive tackle who was ordered to drop 35 lbs. of appearing sluggish, or slow, or simply saying, "He sucks." Uh, actually, he's probably on a 2000 cal/day diet and is way short on carbs... then again he might suck, but let's see what it looks like through another lens.
I'm not saying at all that what you're seeing isn't lack of ability run amok. I'm only offering you a slightly different way of looking at it. Choose to, or choose not to, I'm just offering here.
And, while we're on the subject, what good does it do to blow the whistle on a play in 11 on 11 without having the ball thrown? I suppose you could have 'em line up and do it again, and again, until the ball comes out on time. But that would only be because the defense is too exhausted to keep up. That's why you let the play go. That's why you don't tag-down the quarterback in 11 on 11's. Otherwise you have receivers running routes and getting no reception reps, and defensive backs running on empty. You just don't have the physical ability to run that many reps.
You always play it out. That's why you put a red jersey on the guy. That's why (in most cases) you tell the DL's to keep their hands down. So you don't 1.) Accidentally catch a thrower's arm, and 2.) Waste a play by batting down a throw at the line.
The film will tell you all you need to know about the timing of the play. I think they're OK there. There are some very smart people on that staff... not to mention Anderson, Quinn, and Ratliff who are all reasonably bright. So let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater just yet.
And, OK, here goes... Anderson's problem is, in fact, the touch (or lack thereof) on short passes. Rotating his base is how you fix that... regardless of how groovy it sounds. Frankly, I would've thought him too big and awkward to make that change, but they appear to be trying it. Historically, a good portion of his lack of touch has to do with the fact that he throws those short passes 1.) as a last resort (read, "late"), and that he typically doesn't rotate his base to make them. He has historically dart-thrown flat passes to the right, i.e. toes parallel, pointed at the target. Try it. Then try to throw it softly. Then try to throw it halfway between softly and Nolan Ryan. Then do it from a two-hands chest-high ball position. Pull it back to the earhole, and try to hit a 12" target at 12 yards. Trust me, it's not easy.
Likewise, Anderson has generally pickoff-moved his throws to the left flat. That is shifted his weight to his back foot, then whipped his front leg toward the target as he's throwing. You can be accurate that way, but it's very difficult to control the velocity.
What he's doing now is (well, call it what you want) "rotating his base", "whipping his hips", "righting his feet", is going to give him a far better opportunity to make those throws more catchable. Whether or not he looks good doing it now.
Now, as far as Quinn is concerned... I have not seen what you call "releasing the ball too low." That's not to say it's not happening. I'm just saying I haven't seen it. As a matter of fact, I've seen far less of Quinn this training camp than I have Anderson. What I did see was some of the quarterback drills where they were specifically working on his body lean, both at the top of his drop and at the point of release.
Based on your description, and that of others, 2+2 leads me to believe he's having a few growing pains tightening up his mechanics.
And I've never really worried about quarterback's "flicking" the ball in close quarters... provided what you're describing is happening in throws covering under 10 yards.
Look, the point is, nobody gets to this level by sucking. Trust me, step on the field with the #3 quarterback on the 32nd best team in the NFL, and for 99.99% of us, he's the best quarterback we've shared an acre of turf with. These guys are ridiculously talented. We all owe them a little benefit of the doubt.
I tell every team I've ever coached, "It's hard to look good when you're fighting to get better." It's about getting it right, not making it pretty.
-jj
W O W !!
I think I just got smater from reading this post.
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It's a good thing they didn't judge Bernie Kosar on his mechanics.
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Jason, thanks for the generic (but long winded) token reply. I didn't come on here and rant because of an awkward screen pass or two. The guy had no clock in his head last night. Even in back-yard football without a rush, guys will scamper around for 7-seconds and throw the damn ball away because anything longer would just be unfair to a defense. This clown stays in there and actually keeps patting the ball like it's his mommy's tit and throws the ball down field and jogs up to the moved chains like he actually did something. Some Shmoke Twitters about it, and the Queen Nation gathers for a new counter spin as to why Brady is better (then they post about BQ's long ball, which leads us to your next lesson, below).
My problem ... take that back, everyone's problem with DA ain't in the torque of his upper body or the rotation of his base (as grovy and educated as that all sounds) it's in the touch he can't put on a pass. He's still bulleting passes downward, making for some very difficult catches.
No, I did not see improvement ... anywhere.
Again, I disagree. I never questioned the guys arm strength, but his balls don't come off pretty. In fact, he threw an absolute duck last night on one particular throw. He is not keeping his shoulders parallel to the ground, he's slinging it from behind the shadows of his line, he's dipping his back shoulder still. He's releasing the ball too low, and 'flicking' passes too often ... still.
The token rebuttal is that they are working on all of these things, no shit Sherlock. But that don't erase the problem. My rant is to let everyone know that DA is still DA and Brady is still Brady and that shouldn't make anyone comfortable enough to Twitter cheesey happy false progress, or report on some phantom tough-it-out competition. It is more-so about who is less worst.
Get back into camp and give us more than the basic text book things they should be working on. We want results.
A.) I know no other way than long winded. B.) I resent the word "token" (both times). Which implies that somehow I did not think out my reply, but rather selected it from a shelf full of apologist-type responses. Neither of which is true. If I didn't see it, or think it, I wouldn't have posted it.
I'm simply offering a slightly different vantage point from which to view what you're seeing.
Dismissing what I'm saying out of hand, would be akin to accusing a defensive tackle who was ordered to drop 35 lbs. of appearing sluggish, or slow, or simply saying, "He sucks." Uh, actually, he's probably on a 2000 cal/day diet and is way short on carbs... then again he might suck, but let's see what it looks like through another lens.
I'm not saying at all that what you're seeing isn't lack of ability run amok. I'm only offering you a slightly different way of looking at it. Choose to, or choose not to, I'm just offering here.
And, while we're on the subject, what good does it do to blow the whistle on a play in 11 on 11 without having the ball thrown? I suppose you could have 'em line up and do it again, and again, until the ball comes out on time. But that would only be because the defense is too exhausted to keep up. That's why you let the play go. That's why you don't tag-down the quarterback in 11 on 11's. Otherwise you have receivers running routes and getting no reception reps, and defensive backs running on empty. You just don't have the physical ability to run that many reps.
You always play it out. That's why you put a red jersey on the guy. That's why (in most cases) you tell the DL's to keep their hands down. So you don't 1.) Accidentally catch a thrower's arm, and 2.) Waste a play by batting down a throw at the line.
The film will tell you all you need to know about the timing of the play. I think they're OK there. There are some very smart people on that staff... not to mention Anderson, Quinn, and Ratliff who are all reasonably bright. So let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater just yet.
And, OK, here goes... Anderson's problem is, in fact, the touch (or lack thereof) on short passes. Rotating his base is how you fix that... regardless of how groovy it sounds. Frankly, I would've thought him too big and awkward to make that change, but they appear to be trying it. Historically, a good portion of his lack of touch has to do with the fact that he throws those short passes 1.) as a last resort (read, "late"), and that he typically doesn't rotate his base to make them. He has historically dart-thrown flat passes to the right, i.e. toes parallel, pointed at the target. Try it. Then try to throw it softly. Then try to throw it halfway between softly and Nolan Ryan. Then do it from a two-hands chest-high ball position. Pull it back to the earhole, and try to hit a 12" target at 12 yards. Trust me, it's not easy.
Likewise, Anderson has generally pickoff-moved his throws to the left flat. That is shifted his weight to his back foot, then whipped his front leg toward the target as he's throwing. You can be accurate that way, but it's very difficult to control the velocity.
What he's doing now is (well, call it what you want) "rotating his base", "whipping his hips", "righting his feet", is going to give him a far better opportunity to make those throws more catchable. Whether or not he looks good doing it now.
Now, as far as Quinn is concerned... I have not seen what you call "releasing the ball too low." That's not to say it's not happening. I'm just saying I haven't seen it. As a matter of fact, I've seen far less of Quinn this training camp than I have Anderson. What I did see was some of the quarterback drills where they were specifically working on his body lean, both at the top of his drop and at the point of release.
Based on your description, and that of others, 2+2 leads me to believe he's having a few growing pains tightening up his mechanics.
And I've never really worried about quarterback's "flicking" the ball in close quarters... provided what you're describing is happening in throws covering under 10 yards.
Look, the point is, nobody gets to this level by sucking. Trust me, step on the field with the #3 quarterback on the 32nd best team in the NFL, and for 99.99% of us, he's the best quarterback we've shared an acre of turf with. These guys are ridiculously talented. We all owe them a little benefit of the doubt.
I tell every team I've ever coached, "It's hard to look good when you're fighting to get better." It's about getting it right, not making it pretty.
-jj
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I think Quinn needs to hold the ball up higher. When he leans back on his back foot to where his shoulders aren't parallel with the ground, I believe it stems from him not carrrying the ball high enough. He's shooting from the hip aka Farve style, although he has no Farve arm strength to launch with.
I've watched him have success in this camp 'flicking' the ball from his hip. I reported from the first camp that I witnessed him on a designed roll-out, come under a rush and launch the ball from his hip as if he was trying to clear it out of his hands before getting smeared by his bigger brother (a smear-the-queer analogy ... a bit of panic if you will). Again, he completed that pass as well as others, but I cringed ... it appeared ill-advised and reckless.
I saw him squeeze a ball through the trees of the linemen into an open space and again it was complete (I believe) but again it looked reckless and a recipe for disaster.
He doesn't appear to be standing tall and throwing over the top. So when you filed out the teaching verse about him working on the opposite of all of the above, I called you out on it and asked you to come back with an actual witnessed account.
Again, I hear what you are saying about Anderson needing to do this or that to put a screen pass in a more catchable manner. Again, I state that he ain't doing it. The closest thing you've touched on that I will agree with is that he needs to make a quicker read on the dump-off and this will help him tremendously ... but AGAIN, my reports are that his reads are even slower than years past ... thus my disappointments.
Sure I over-exaggerate to get some blood flowing here and drag out some good banter ... but I ain't completely full of shit, these guys need a kick in the ass and if I read "It's only the first week of Training Camp" one more time I'm gonna puke.
I expect these guys to be honing skills in training camp, not learning a new grip on the ball (Hi Tim Couch!), or taking an infant crawl toward changing mechanics ... these aspects should be 3+ months into their growth and if that is true, they need to start working harder and the excuses need to quit flying because they have a relatively short time to put this shit live in the stadium.
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Ate....
Keep in mind that this is a new system. The coaches are not only looking to see what the QB's can do and working on the things that they can't do...they are trying out new plays and schemes to see what they will keep and what will be scratched from the playbook.
Basically, what you are seeing right now is a lot of repetitions of what the QB's DON'T do well...a lot of repetitions of what the WR's don't do well...and a lot of repetitions of what you likely WON'T see in real games.
Once they have a better idea of what everyone does and doesn't do well, they will pare down the plays and tailor the offense to fit BOTH players (may be different plays for both QB's). At that point you will see how they can actually run the offense.
Right now, they have ZERO timing with the WR's (especially since until today we had 1 vet...and he was new to the club). They are still in the first stages of learning the reads and the check downs. AND they are still working on some mechanics which may or may not be used later (depending on results).
So, to hear that they are having ANY success this week (IMHO) is a bonus.
I believe that next week...leading into the first pre-season game...we are going to be seeing and hearing a lot more positives out of the QB position....and are far more likely to finally see one of them distance themselves as the clear cut favorite to start the season.
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