***Official Browns Vs.Steelers Thursday Night Football Game Thread***
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So chasing after your attacker AND playing the victim would stand up in court?
That's some kind of pretzel logic.
This isn't a street fight, man. You're attempting apples to oranges. This is closer to Holyfield having his ear bitten.
Why speculate, as fate would have it I'm seeing a lawyer at 8:45 who just so happens to be a Browns fan. I'll ask a pro his opinion.
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So chasing after your attacker AND playing the victim would stand up in court?
That's some kind of pretzel logic.
This isn't a street fight, man. You're attempting apples to oranges. This is closer to Holyfield having his ear bitten.
Why speculate, as fate would have it I'm seeing a lawyer at 8:45 who just so happens to be a Browns fan. I'll ask a pro his opinion.
This isn't a street fight, man. You're attempting apples to oranges. This is closer to Holyfield having his ear bitten.
Why speculate, as fate would have it I'm seeing a lawyer at 8:45 who just so happens to be a Browns fan. I'll ask a pro his opinion.
While you're visiting the lawyer, ask him this. If someone breaks into your house wielding a knife, and you pull out a gun and shoot the burglar in the back as he's running for the door...can you claim self defense?
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This isn't a street fight, man. You're attempting apples to oranges. This is closer to Holyfield having his ear bitten.
Why speculate, as fate would have it I'm seeing a lawyer at 8:45 who just so happens to be a Browns fan. I'll ask a pro his opinion.
While you're visiting the lawyer, ask him this. If someone breaks into your house wielding a knife, and you pull out a gun and shoot the burglar in the back as he's running for the door...can you claim self defense?
While you're visiting the lawyer, ask him this. If someone breaks into your house wielding a knife, and you pull out a gun and shoot the burglar in the back as he's running for the door...can you claim self defense?
I knew that something like this was coming, but that's an over the top comparison. It is closer to a thief with no weapons breaking into your house, and you once he has surrendered shot him in both legs with your shotgun.
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This. First off the NFL is terrified of precedent so it will unlikely see a charge. But there isn't a court in this country that wouldn't laugh at "self defense "
Well, this is the way that I would argue it... so no, but take it from me....the one guy that IS a jurist.....a court of law would not probably find a self defense argument meritorious...i.e. a complete exoneration....But they WOULD look at provocation.. Not as a complete defense....but as a mitigating factor.
And I think the NFL will look at that as well. For, in essence, while the initial "sentence" is not done via "court setting" terms, the appeal is. And there is certain to be an appeal from whatever comes down....unless it is only a game or 2 suspension. Which to my mind is what it should be.
Why? Because, also....while the optics are certainly horrible....the actual consequences were far from that, AND, in a court setting...the consequences, the damages to a 'victim" are absolutely a factor taken into consideration in any what we call a "victim impact" statement.
The swing of the helmet did not, by any means, make full contact. It looked more like he was just basically plopping his helmet back on his head. It did no actual damage whatsoever to Rudolph. He just kind of flinched. Did he fall to the ground? No, he turned around, raised his hands in the air, barking a complaint to the officials. Certainly not the actions of someone devastated by a blow to the head.
The fact is, Rudolph probably suffered more hurt/pain from the push from behind that knocked him to the ground than from the helmet thing.
So...there is you "courtroom" style argument for a diminishment of the punishment that may be due to Garrett.
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So chasing after your attacker AND playing the victim would stand up in court?
That's some kind of pretzel logic.
This isn't a street fight, man. You're attempting apples to oranges. This is closer to Holyfield having his ear bitten.
Why speculate, as fate would have it I'm seeing a lawyer at 8:45 who just so happens to be a Browns fan. I'll ask a pro his opinion.
This isn't a street fight, man. You're attempting apples to oranges. This is closer to Holyfield having his ear bitten.
Why speculate, as fate would have it I'm seeing a lawyer at 8:45 who just so happens to be a Browns fan. I'll ask a pro his opinion.
It is 8:45. This lawyer just gave you a perspective on it.
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While you're visiting the lawyer, ask him this. If someone breaks into your house wielding a knife, and you pull out a gun and shoot the burglar in the back as he's running for the door...can you claim self defense?
I knew that something like this was coming, but that's an over the top comparison. It is closer to a thief with no weapons breaking into your house, and you once he has surrendered shot him in both legs with your shotgun.
I knew that something like this was coming, but that's an over the top comparison. It is closer to a thief with no weapons breaking into your house, and you once he has surrendered shot him in both legs with your shotgun.
Except, in this case....the thief had not surrendered. He continued to pursue the fight, even with his helmet off.
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While you're visiting the lawyer, ask him this. If someone breaks into your house wielding a knife, and you pull out a gun and shoot the burglar in the back as he's running for the door...can you claim self defense?
I knew that something like this was coming, but that's an over the top comparison. It is closer to a thief with no weapons breaking into your house, and you once he has surrendered shot him in both legs with your shotgun.
I knew that something like this was coming, but that's an over the top comparison. It is closer to a thief with no weapons breaking into your house, and you once he has surrendered shot him in both legs with your shotgun.
Except the thief hadn't surrendered. And he had other thief's with him holding you. I don't buy the self defense because Garrett wasn't in any physical danger but your analogy isnt accurate either.
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I knew that something like this was coming, but that's an over the top comparison. It is closer to a thief with no weapons breaking into your house, and you once he has surrendered shot him in both legs with your shotgun.
Except, in this case....the thief had not surrendered. He continued to pursue the fight, even with his helmet off.
Except, in this case....the thief had not surrendered. He continued to pursue the fight, even with his helmet off.
Except the thief hadn't surrendered. And he had other thief's with him holding you. I don't buy the self defense because Garrett wasn't in any physical danger but your analogy isnt accurate either.
Agreed. Should have thought of it more thoroughly.
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Anyone besides me ever been in a sports fight? I've been in 1 football and 2 basketball (one of which I was the team coach). .. and I never started one of them.
Remember how rationally you reacted: at their start? restrained while an opponent was trying to engage you?
Rationality is the first victim in any altercation.
Only been in one "sports fight" myself - a slow pitch softball fight if you can believe that shit. (competitive city champ league stuff - not a beer league).
Anyway, while it was not one of my proudest moments, I didn't grab an aluminum bat and swing it at someone under the guise that "it was a fight, and the other dude should've known better than to start it with me". I knew what the line was, even in that out of control moment............. most do.
This is now how Myles will be remembered...... too bad.
Only been in one "sports fight" myself - a slow pitch softball fight if you can believe that shit. (competitive city champ league stuff - not a beer league).
Anyway, while it was not one of my proudest moments, I didn't grab an aluminum bat and swing it at someone under the guise that "it was a fight, and the other dude should've known better than to start it with me". I knew what the line was, even in that out of control moment............. most do.
This is now how Myles will be remembered...... too bad.
Also did not start with a bat in your hands apparently...
Pride isn't a factor in these things, but neither am I ashamed. In two of my three I was the 3rd man in... actually 4th in one case... making sure an aggressive opponent could do no further harm to a teammate. In the other I was hit first and my first response ended the fight.. as punches to the throat tend to do.... but only because my teammates restrained me.
He can bounce back from this, if he stops being dirty now. He's an amazing player, but you can't do anything like this ever again.
One loss of control incident does not make a player dirty.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Only been in one "sports fight" myself - a slow pitch softball fight if you can believe that shit. (competitive city champ league stuff - not a beer league).
Anyway, while it was not one of my proudest moments, I didn't grab an aluminum bat and swing it at someone under the guise that "it was a fight, and the other dude should've known better than to start it with me". I knew what the line was, even in that out of control moment............. most do.
This is now how Myles will be remembered...... too bad.
Also did not start with a bat in your hands apparently...
Pride isn't a factor in these things, but neither am I ashamed. In two of my three I was the 3rd man in... actually 4th in one case... making sure an aggressive opponent could do no further harm to a teammate. In the other I was hit first and my first response ended the fight.. as punches to the throat tend to do.... but only because my teammates restrained me.
He can bounce back from this, if he stops being dirty now. He's an amazing player, but you can't do anything like this ever again.
One loss of control incident does not make a player dirty.
Also did not start with a bat in your hands apparently...
It started with the opposing team having one dude with a bat in his hands...... and no one picked it up and swung it.
One loss of control incident does not make a player dirty.
When you hear the name Albert Haynesworth, what immediately comes to the minds of probably 99.9% of people? (the .1% being his mom and PoG)
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Myles aside, my quick reaction.
- Pleased with the amount of man coverage and 5 man pressures Wilks threw at the young QB. With MG gone, we're going to need more of that to help keep the defense afloat.
- Baker played with solid efficiency. Not spectacular but within what he is capable of.
- Myles is to villanueva as Suggs was to Joe Thomas. Want to see how @tour2ma feels about that association.
- Myles is to villanueva as Suggs was to Joe Thomas. Want to see how @tour2ma feels about that association.
Possible...
Can't say I remember MG previously owning Villanueva to the degree he did last nite, but then Suggs did not own JT to the same degree every game. I did look and in three previous Steeler games MG has 4 sacks.plus 3 TFL.
Here's an observation back at ya.... both our OTs played pretty well last nite. Between them Watt and DuPree registered one sack that was Watt on a TE... although have to say I think the TE expected Hubbard to pick up Watt, Hubbard was otherwise occupied by the DE slanting outside.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Also did not start with a bat in your hands apparently...
It started with the opposing team having one dude with a bat in his hands...... and no one picked it up and swung it.
One loss of control incident does not make a player dirty.
When you hear the name Albert Haynesworth, what immediately comes to the minds of probably 99.9% of people? (the .1% being his mom and PoG)
Also did not start with a bat in your hands apparently...
It started with the opposing team having one dude with a bat in his hands...... and no one picked it up and swung it.
One loss of control incident does not make a player dirty.
When you hear the name Albert Haynesworth, what immediately comes to the minds of probably 99.9% of people? (the .1% being his mom and PoG)
- Glad your opponent had the good sense to drop the bat. Gonna guess you'd have done the same.
- As egregious as his face rake was when I hear Albert's name I first think of a high-dollar UFA who grew so lazy that he was released and passed out of football... minus a good chunk of the money he thought he'd bagged when he signed with WSH. When I think "dirty" I think of Burfect and Suh... in that order.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Or as I said Mike Tomlin started it by calling a play like that with eight seconds left instead of taking a fucking knee when the game was lost. He deserves Criticism for that
Mike Tomlin tried to trip Jacoby Jones on a kickoff during a game. I think he’s the last person that should talk about ethics or what’s right and wrong in the nfl. That being said, mason started the fight, set the trap, and Myles fell for it. Now mason can play the victim. Is what Garrett did completely horrible and uncalled for? Yes? Was a reaction like that what Rudolph wanted? Yes...... now he doesn’t have to play Myles and he’s the poor victim.
Mike Tomlin tried to trip Jacoby Jones on a kickoff during a game. I think he’s the last person that should talk about ethics or what’s right and wrong in the nfl. That being said, mason started the fight, set the trap, and Myles fell for it. Now mason can play the victim. Is what Garrett did completely horrible and uncalled for? Yes? Was a reaction like that what Rudolph wanted? Yes...... now he doesn’t have to play Myles and he’s the poor victim.
I hope this is a joke.
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Only been in one "sports fight" myself - a slow pitch softball fight if you can believe that shit. (competitive city champ league stuff - not a beer league).
Anyway, while it was not one of my proudest moments, I didn't grab an aluminum bat and swing it at someone under the guise that "it was a fight, and the other dude should've known better than to start it with me". I knew what the line was, even in that out of control moment............. most do.
This is now how Myles will be remembered...... too bad.
Also did not start with a bat in your hands apparently...
Pride isn't a factor in these things, but neither am I ashamed. In two of my three I was the 3rd man in... actually 4th in one case... making sure an aggressive opponent could do no further harm to a teammate. In the other I was hit first and my first response ended the fight.. as punches to the throat tend to do.... but only because my teammates restrained me.
He can bounce back from this, if he stops being dirty now. He's an amazing player, but you can't do anything like this ever again.
One loss of control incident does not make a player dirty.
One loss of control incident does not make a player dirty.
Right, and he's been making late/dirty hits all season.
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Right, and he's been making late/dirty hits all season.
not at all. He did get two uc's because he fell on the qb. That has been done forever.
They changed the rule. So, in all this latest melee, Garrett played nice and made sissy mason girlyman
land on him to avoid the penalty.
and all hell broke loose, STARTED BY SISSY MASON.
Just fact.
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Right, and he's been making late/dirty hits all season.
not at all. He did get two uc's because he fell on the qb. That has been done forever.
They changed the rule. So, in all this latest melee, Garrett played nice and made sissy mason girlyman
land on him to avoid the penalty.
and all hell broke loose, STARTED BY SISSY MASON.
Just fact.
not at all. He did get two uc's because he fell on the qb. That has been done forever.
They changed the rule. So, in all this latest melee, Garrett played nice and made sissy mason girlyman
land on him to avoid the penalty.
and all hell broke loose, STARTED BY SISSY MASON.
Just fact.
Funny that no one else can see these facts?
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- Myles is to villanueva as Suggs was to Joe Thomas. Want to see how @tour2ma feels about that association.
Possible...
Can't say I remember MG previously owning Villanueva to the degree he did last nite, but then Suggs did not own JT to the same degree every game. I did look and in three previous Steeler games MG has 4 sacks.plus 3 TFL.
Here's an observation back at ya.... both our OTs played pretty well last nite. Between them Watt and DuPree registered one sack that was Watt on a TE... although have to say I think the TE expected Hubbard to pick up Watt, Hubbard was otherwise occupied by the DE slanting outside.
Possible...
Can't say I remember MG previously owning Villanueva to the degree he did last nite, but then Suggs did not own JT to the same degree every game. I did look and in three previous Steeler games MG has 4 sacks.plus 3 TFL.
Here's an observation back at ya.... both our OTs played pretty well last nite. Between them Watt and DuPree registered one sack that was Watt on a TE... although have to say I think the TE expected Hubbard to pick up Watt, Hubbard was otherwise occupied by the DE slanting outside.
My comments on the MG: Villanueva matchup have more to do with Myles using a Suggs move that gave Joe so much trouble - speed to power bull rush.
Myles fired off, stayed lowed, used his arms and simply drove AV ass right back into Mason. And he do so rather repeatedly. I don't recall him doing that much before but that might be how he continues to attack him in the foreseeable future (When he's back from suspension, of course.)
Agreed on our tackles play of last night. I still feel that had a lot to do with personnel groupings, formation, the playaction (more play action under center the entire 1st qtr) Even though I wasn't paying the closest of attention, possibly over-setting to the outside shoulder. I'm really surprised Watt and Dupree didn't attempt any inside moves. But it may be a potential weakness that has been seen on film or perhaps just a fluke.
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Also did not start with a bat in your hands apparently...
It started with the opposing team having one dude with a bat in his hands...... and no one picked it up and swung it.
One loss of control incident does not make a player dirty.
When you hear the name Albert Haynesworth, what immediately comes to the minds of probably 99.9% of people? (the .1% being his mom and PoG)
When you hear the name Albert Haynesworth, what immediately comes to the minds of probably 99.9% of people? (the .1% being his mom and PoG)
I think of how dan snyder really overpaid him (worst fa signing of all time) and Haynesworth must have used all that money on food. I know you're saying people think dirty player and the stomp which I still contend was just as bad as Garrett's. The thing is though is that wasn't his only issue like that. Other things like kicking his teammate in the chest in his first training camp and the brutal dirty hit on MJD add to his rep
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