Looking back - Josh Allen vs Josh Rosen
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Baker also played well in preseason and training camp as a rookie. All the reports were saying “Baker is flooring it” and he probably knew he should’ve been starting over Tyrod. I’m grateful how they let him come in naturally after Tyrod was hurt, though.
Gee, thanks. lol It IS premature over the long haul, it's more that some people like Tiam can't stand being disagreed with and go ego whacko over it.
It's also true, over time, that Rosen could develop the character/leadership/etc ...
Sound familiar? Mayfield?
https://www.profootballhof.com/players/johnny-unitas/
Unitas, 6'1",
Well you gotta realize, that tia isn’t the only Browns fan with an opinion.. Personally, I liked Rosen’s arm, deep ball, and accuracy. He has also displayed a great throw on the run skills with Miami.
It’s tough to tell what kind of leadership Rosen possesses, imo, going from one 1st overall pick contender to another. If anything, this is the period is where he will build character?
Baker also played well in preseason and training camp as a rookie. All the reports were saying “Baker is flooring it” and he probably knew he should’ve been starting over Tyrod. I’m grateful how they let him come in naturally after Tyrod was hurt, though.
Well you gotta realize, that tia isn’t the only Browns fan with an opinion.. Personally, I liked Rosen’s arm, deep ball, and accuracy. He has also displayed a great throw on the run skills with Miami.
It’s tough to tell what kind of leadership Rosen possesses, imo, going from one 1st overall pick contender to another. If anything, this is the period is where he will build character?
From my goofy perspective - it is possible to accrue leadership skills. I remember back in the AF, at Biloxi. Each floor had an appointed student leader, a yellow rope, that marched us to school and back. Except this guy... from a military family and military school, decided that he was Sgt. Carter on the old Gomer Pyle show. None of us respected that - he was so bent on acting like a TI back in basic, when he was only one of us. It wasn't good for him - we were respecting him less and less and he was getting po'd more and more.
One day, some things happened, he crashed and went to our squadron leader, also appointed, also from a military family, to complain about not being respected...and why other student leaders were, etc etc.
(we used to annoy him on purpose... lol). "L", our entire squadron leader and one of my best friends, the red rope, told him respect is earned, and leadership is setting an example for others to follow, act like who you would want to follow. He changed pretty much everything about himself, humbled. And he really did earn our respect.
Rosen is no dummy - He may very well grow into it. He just has a long way to go, I think.
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Great insight^
Fitzpatrick is not a bad guy for Rosen to sit back and watch lead a subpar team. The dude is well liked and respected on the Dolphins. Seems like a smart play to let Rosen watch. Rosen will also need a really good O-Line like most pocket style passers, however, he can really spin it on the run. -
I believe I said Rosen was overrated from day one, and that people I knew who had friends that were professors even said the kid was entitled and rude. Then after all of the rumors that even his teammates said he was an asshole, and his statement about possibly not playing football.
He's been handed everything his whole life, even more so than Johnny Football, I knew he wouldn't succeed at this level.
D'arnold doesn't have the heart. I was unsure about Lamar at first, but my god he looks amazing this year. Can he keep it up? Time will tell. Hopefully he isn't RG3 2.0
Even if he busts out, as a first round pick Rosen has a nice retirement fund. Collected at least $11 million+ so far.
Regarding Lamar, the Browns had better hope he's another RG III, at least on the field- don't wish injury on anyone.
Even if he busts out, as a first round pick Rosen has a nice retirement fund. Collected at least $11 million+ so far.
Regarding Lamar, the Browns had better hope he's another RG III, at least on the field- don't wish injury on anyone.
I'm not wanting him to face injury.. I just want him to flame out.. I want him to get fat , happy and resting on his laurels.... Defenses have to quit playing into his hands like the Clams did... And quit being mentally scared of him...
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
Even if he busts out, as a first round pick Rosen has a nice retirement fund. Collected at least $11 million+ so far.
Regarding Lamar, the Browns had better hope he's another RG III, at least on the field- don't wish injury on anyone.
I'm not wanting him to face injury.. I just want him to flame out.. I want him to get fat , happy and resting on his laurels.... Defenses have to quit playing into his hands like the Clams did... And quit being mentally scared of him...
I'm not wanting him to face injury.. I just want him to flame out.. I want him to get fat , happy and resting on his laurels.... Defenses have to quit playing into his hands like the Clams did... And quit being mentally scared of him...
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I reckon you do, Gip - you opened the thread, read it down through, and the title was right on the money as to the content.
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I reckon you do, Gip - you opened the thread, read it down through, and the title was right on the money as to the content.
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Apparently you do... You're reading this thread
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The question is why do you care about Rosen and Allen. They don’t play for the Browns they play for some other goddamn team so fuck them both of them
you mad, bro? Because YOU were the guy who was high on...MASON RUDOLPH ??? I brought it up because we played vs the Bills, I was there, then we played Miami, where Rosen is... did I mention his original team dumped him for a second round pick? Oh, yeah. I did. OTH, I was concerned about Baker's immaturity and height a bit - but Canton Mike wouldn't buy into it. And I was wrong.
Anyways, I was watching the survival show "Running with Bear Grillis" sp? and he had Drew Brees on. It was a great time - Brees and Bear talked about themselves - and Brees was outstanding - he seemed so much like Baker Mayfield - leadership, absolutely thrives on challenges, fierce courage...etc etc etc, height, and I thought back to the leadership question. I mean, Bear takes famous supermodels or actors or whoever else. He took Shaq on one, Deion Sanders, etc. And every one of them were way outside their comfort zones... the latter two were really out... and every time - famous people you'd think would never do stuff...they follow Bear rappelling up and down cliffs, through jungles or desert.... that confidence and leadership, etc, that helps some folks achieve great things got them through in flying colors. I believe Mayfield would do it, I thought that the second time I watched the recorded version of Brees' being on the show. Allen has that. Sipe and Kosar certainly did. I believe Allen does - we just saw him and the Bills won again... then, by logical comparison...there is Rosen. And Allen came up to mind, because over two weeks around Thanksgiving, the Bills beat both Denver and Dallas.
So, I hope everybody had a GREAT THANKSGIVING - we did, and our big turkey dinner is today, when the Browns win over the dirty squealers.
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Allen? First... have to laugh at any criticism for Jackson's "Scrambling" in a setup to lauding a big QB who is still known more for his running. As for his passing... I do have to admit the Allen is now able to hit the broad side of a barn on occasion, but he still lacks touch. He arrived in BUF to find the remnants of a Top 5 D and the Bills added Offensive piece after piece. And then there's the above mentioned "stability".
Always risky to put a team record up as an example of a QB's talent. Besides the supporting cast mentioned above there's a little matter of something I like to call "the opposition". Season to date in the Bills' 9-3 record are victories over exactly 2 teams with a winning record... two (DAL 6-5 at the time and TN 6-5)... offset by losses to 2 teams with losing records... two (us and PHI). The other 7 wins came against: NYJ, NYG, CIN, MIA, WSH, MIA and DNV.
That's looking back...
Here's looking ahead... next three games: BLT, @ PTG, @ NE.
Bottom line: Allen has developed some competency at the NFL level and may develop further, but he isn't franchise grade yet.
Rosen? Two words... Cardinals and Dolphins... the NFL equivalent of the frying pan and the fire.
Looked for any expressions of negative sentiment upon his trade from AZ and found this:
Mark Dalton @CardsMarkD Thank you & best of luck in Miami to
@josh3rosen. So much respect for the professionalism, character & toughness he demonstrated throughout his time here.What an asshole... lol...
Bottom Line: Rosen is essentially still in the NFL starting gate, but the promise he showed at UCLA is still there and in year 2 of a potential 5-year contract, he's still cheap enough to see other, and hopefully better, opportunities.
Rosen? Two words... Cardinals and Dolphins... the NFL equivalent of the frying pan and the fire.
the problem with this argument is that when the Dolphins made the switch to Fitz(a crappy veteran journeyman by all accounts) it was clear he was a major upgrade over Rosen. That's why fins fans were ticked, because they were hoping to continue losing every game and going from the disaster Rosen was to more marginally capable qb play hurt those chances. If a marginally capable crappy journeyman vet comes in and is CLEARLY the superior option, what the hell does that say about Rosen?
Has Rosen been put in dumpster fire type situations at both places? Sure, but he also looks like he sucks. At least that seems to be the consensus.
If the Dolphins were to move on from Rosen after this year, they would get almost nothing for him. Like 5th round pick type value. Which speaks to how everyone in the nfl views him now. There is nothing that says a qb can't be thrown into poor situations and also suck. That very much appears to be the case with Mr Rosen.
And I don't know jack about college to nfl qb evaluations and liked rosen coming out of UCLA too, but I can admit he's looked pretty poor.
And I'm not sure why you bring up character issues in defending Rosen. That was some(admittedly BS) whispers 2 years ago. Now nobody cares about that in the least and the issue has nothing to do with that.
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this is a bizarre comparison now.
I'm NOT an Allen fan, but he has a starting job in the nfl now and is supposedly improving. Is he good? Well I don't think so....but he's on a completely different level than Rosen who cannot
get on the field for one of the worst teams in the nfl who has nothing to lose by playing a young qb they basically took a flyer in.
So at this point the book is very much open on Allen, but nobody is comparing Josh Rosen to him at this point in a serious way.
If you had to rate their level of NFL success/performance to this point you would have to give Allen about a 4 I guess and Rosen a 0.
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Allen? First... have to laugh at any criticism for Jackson's "Scrambling" in a setup to lauding a big QB who is still known more for his running. As for his passing... I do have to admit the Allen is now able to hit the broad side of a barn on occasion, but he still lacks touch. He arrived in BUF to find the remnants of a Top 5 D and the Bills added Offensive piece after piece. And then there's the above mentioned "stability".
Always risky to put a team record up as an example of a QB's talent. Besides the supporting cast
Rosen? Two words... Cardinals and Dolphins... the NFL equivalent of the frying pan and the fire.
Looked for any expressions of negative sentiment upon his trade from AZ and found this:
Mark Dalton @CardsMarkD Thank you & best of luck in Miami to
@josh3rosen. So much respect for the professionalism, character & toughness he demonstrated throughout his time here.What an asshole... lol...
Bottom Line: Rosen is essentially still in the NFL starting gate, but the promise he showed at UCLA is still there and in year 2 of a potential 5-year contract, he's still cheap enough to see other, and hopefully better, opportunities.
While you make a lot of good points Tour - Miami probably still wanted to see him move the team (and escalate the play around him) better than Ryan Fitzpatrick. That shouldn't have been as impossible as it was if this guy is who we thought he was.
Baker was the only QB drafted by an 0-16 football team. The reason he became a fan fave is because he elevated the play of those around him as immediately as the first time he stepped on the field with a 14-0 deficit. FWIW, Cleveland was also winless (0-1-1) at that point in 2018 when he took his first snap with a 14-0 deficit he later erased vrs the Jets. He didn't need the "I was drafted by a bad team" excuse. In the process, we even found ourselves saying he was making the OL look better. Meanwhile, Arizona's current QB has them feeling like they can compete with anyone. They're not the Bingo FREE Space they were last year; and their rookie QB is a big reason for that IMO.
Keep in mind, a lot of Pac 12 QB Stars/1st round picks like Matt Leinart, Cade McNown, Akili Smith, Mark Sanchez, Joey Harrington, Jake Locker, Marcus Mariota, Ryan Leaf and Todd Marijuanavich disappointed at the NFL level in spite of all their promise. The 3 guys that had the most success are Aaron Rodgers (a JUCO transfer), Carson Palmer and Andrew Luck (who's already retired). I can't even add Alex Smith to the conference because his college team was in the Mountain West back when he played for Urban Meyer's & Joe Pesci's Utah Utes...
I remembered posting I'd much rather have Rosen than Allen if we didn't draft Mayfield or Darnold Duck. I have to admit Allen looks more like a keeper than Rosen at this point in time. One guy looks like his best football is in the rear view mirror and the other looks like he continues to get better in a league where the window of opportunity slams shut quickly. And it isn't like Buffalo spoiled Allen with all kinds of talent on the perimeter or at TE. The most notable WR they have is John Brown (who is on his 3rd NFL team in the last 3-4 years). All that said, he helps move the sticks with his arm and feet; and it's a big reason they're 9-3 without many big football names in the play making dept. I don't get the same vibe I got when the Bears once went something like 10-3 with Kyle Orton game managing them in the absence of Rex Grossman. I'm more impressed with what Allen puts on film as a Pro QB than I was with what he put on film in college. He also hasn't disappointed me when I've counted on him in fantasy football for whatever that's worth.
And YES - I'd be sleeping under bridges if I had to count on my pre-draft QB predictions for a living...
I don't get the same vibe I got when the Bears once went something like 10-3 with Kyle Orton game managing them in the absence of Rex Grossman.
I do.... except Orton wasn't a runner.
CHI then was much the same situation as BUF today where D plus run game (now including their QB) has been the order of the day. And while Allen has developed some as a passer, he still is not "franchise" caliber in my book. Not saying he never will be... just saying I still don't like his odds.
As for AZ.... a lot more has changed than just the QB.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Rosen? Two words... Cardinals and Dolphins... the NFL equivalent of the frying pan and the fire.
the problem with this argument is that when the Dolphins made the switch to Fitz(a crappy veteran journeyman by all accounts) it was clear he was a major upgrade over Rosen. That's why fins fans were ticked, because they were hoping to continue losing every game and going from the disaster Rosen was to more marginally capable qb play hurt those chances. If a marginally capable crappy journeyman vet comes in and is CLEARLY the superior option, what the hell does that say about Rosen?
Has Rosen been put in dumpster fire type situations at both places? Sure, but he also looks like he sucks. At least that seems to be the consensus.
If the Dolphins were to move on from Rosen after this year, they would get almost nothing for him. Like 5th round pick type value. Which speaks to how everyone in the nfl views him now. There is nothing that says a qb can't be thrown into poor situations and also suck. That very much appears to be the case with Mr Rosen.
And I don't know jack about college to nfl qb evaluations and liked rosen coming out of UCLA too, but I can admit he's looked pretty poor.
And I'm not sure why you bring up character issues in defending Rosen. That was some(admittedly BS) whispers 2 years ago. Now nobody cares about that in the least and the issue has nothing to do with that.
the problem with this argument is that when the Dolphins made the switch to Fitz(a crappy veteran journeyman by all accounts) it was clear he was a major upgrade over Rosen. That's why fins fans were ticked, because they were hoping to continue losing every game and going from the disaster Rosen was to more marginally capable qb play hurt those chances. If a marginally capable crappy journeyman vet comes in and is CLEARLY the superior option, what the hell does that say about Rosen?
Has Rosen been put in dumpster fire type situations at both places? Sure, but he also looks like he sucks. At least that seems to be the consensus.
If the Dolphins were to move on from Rosen after this year, they would get almost nothing for him. Like 5th round pick type value. Which speaks to how everyone in the nfl views him now. There is nothing that says a qb can't be thrown into poor situations and also suck. That very much appears to be the case with Mr Rosen.
And I don't know jack about college to nfl qb evaluations and liked rosen coming out of UCLA too, but I can admit he's looked pretty poor.
And I'm not sure why you bring up character issues in defending Rosen. That was some(admittedly BS) whispers 2 years ago. Now nobody cares about that in the least and the issue has nothing to do with that.
Last first...I did not raise the character issue... the OP did.... just as he has from Day 1.
Fitz isn't a "crappy" vet.... he's a scrappy vet who has had success everywhere he has not been expected to be the franchise guy. And, yes, he has been superior... even CLEARLY superior in a scrappy, grizzled veteran kind of way. He's sparked the team and I would not be surprised if he re-upped with MIA in 2020 to mentor their new QB as seem to have decided that Rosen is not their QB of the future.
Bad situations tend to produce suck... that's all I'm saying. Better does not guarantee better, but as Tannehill is discovering there can be life after the Fins. I hope Rosen gets a similar shot as a backup somewhere so we really can evaluate him. There's a good chance of this since his price won't be high... a 5th seems ball-parkish.
If you had to rate their level of NFL success/performance to this point you would have to give Allen about a 4 I guess and Rosen a 0.
4 to 0 seems fair.... for now.
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Hey for what it's worth I thought that Josh Rosen was probably going to be the guy most ready to step into an NFL quarterback job. As you know my heart said Baker Mayfield. I'm glad I was wrong about Rosen and I'm glad we don't have him. I don't care about Josh Allen ' or Sam Darnold and I don't care about Lamar Jackson.
WSS
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Rosen is an arrogant prick. Recall when the 10th player chosen in the draft said that the 9 picks in front of him were mistakes..
Looks like his comment came back to bite him. Looking back at the top 10 picks, it's apparent Rosen was the first mistake. Glad to be witnessing his demise.
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I'm just curious as to the point or end-game for this thread? Right now it screams of self aggrandizing.
We're not comparing for the sake of opponent evaluation, pro bowl roster merits or the like... So what conclusion are we looking to reach here that doesnt involve thinly veiled and vague insults?
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I'm just curious as to the point or end-game for this thread? Right now it screams of self aggrandizing.
We're not comparing for the sake of opponent evaluation, pro bowl roster merits or the like... So what conclusion are we looking to reach here that doesnt involve thinly veiled and vague insults?
I'm just curious as to the point or end-game for this thread? Right now it screams of self aggrandizing.
We're not comparing for the sake of opponent evaluation, pro bowl roster merits or the like... So what conclusion are we looking to reach here that doesnt involve thinly veiled and vague insults?
How about - the importance of evaluating character...leadership...love for the game... in the future. Like, in draft picks?
The Browns chose wisely for a qb. The teams who picked rudoolph and rosen picked wrongley. ....wrongly? lol.
The calloway/corbett/Gordon desperation chances taken... keep holding the Browns back. If the point was self-aggrandizing - hardly, I can be wrong about stuff - but I think it's important after that fiasco - to look at the hearts of players, not just how they test in workouts. Not on the narrow focus of "best pocket passer in the draft".
I like the second chance thing, but it seems it's all too often like rolling the dice, and the Browns, as well as other teams, lose their money. The old saying "those who don't know/ignore history tend to repeat it" is more the point.
Maybe a good example is Corbett. About the same size as Bitonio,.... but Bitonio has the heart of a lion, as does Joe Thomas.
But Corbett? has only started two games, played in three since he left the Browns? Nope. No fierceness to compete, let alone win.
No love for the game, no heart. The lack of attention paid to the red flags on character/leadership in his nfl profiles... is just too bad for the team that drafted him. It shows, that's all.
I didn't start it to call out the few who got extremely nasty and belligerent about being disagreed with. Are you feeling guilty? Methinks thou dost complain too much. lol
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I'm just curious as to the point or end-game for this thread? Right now it screams of self aggrandizing.
We're not comparing for the sake of opponent evaluation, pro bowl roster merits or the like... So what conclusion are we looking to reach here that doesnt involve thinly veiled and vague insults?
How about - the importance of evaluating character...leadership...love for the game... in the future. Like, in draft picks?
The Browns chose wisely for a qb. The teams who picked rudoolph and rosen picked wrongley. ....wrongly? lol.
The calloway/corbett/Gordon desperation chances taken... keep holding the Browns back. If the point was self-aggrandizing - hardly, I can be wrong about stuff - but I think it's important after that fiasco - to look at the hearts of players, not just how they test in workouts. Not on the narrow focus of "best pocket passer in the draft".
I like the second chance thing, but it seems it's all too often like rolling the dice, and the Browns, as well as other teams, lose their money. The old saying "those who don't know/ignore history tend to repeat it" is more the point.
Maybe a good example is Corbett. About the same size as Bitonio,.... but Bitonio has the heart of a lion, as does Joe Thomas.
But Corbett? has only started two games, played in three since he left the Browns? Nope. No fierceness to compete, let alone win.
No love for the game, no heart. The lack of attention paid to the red flags on character/leadership in his nfl profiles... is just too bad for the team that drafted him. It shows, that's all.
I didn't start it to call out the few who got extremely nasty and belligerent about being disagreed with. Are you feeling guilty? Methinks thou dost complain too much. lol
How about - the importance of evaluating character...leadership...love for the game... in the future. Like, in draft picks?
The Browns chose wisely for a qb. The teams who picked rudoolph and rosen picked wrongley. ....wrongly? lol.
The calloway/corbett/Gordon desperation chances taken... keep holding the Browns back. If the point was self-aggrandizing - hardly, I can be wrong about stuff - but I think it's important after that fiasco - to look at the hearts of players, not just how they test in workouts. Not on the narrow focus of "best pocket passer in the draft".
I like the second chance thing, but it seems it's all too often like rolling the dice, and the Browns, as well as other teams, lose their money. The old saying "those who don't know/ignore history tend to repeat it" is more the point.
Maybe a good example is Corbett. About the same size as Bitonio,.... but Bitonio has the heart of a lion, as does Joe Thomas.
But Corbett? has only started two games, played in three since he left the Browns? Nope. No fierceness to compete, let alone win.
No love for the game, no heart. The lack of attention paid to the red flags on character/leadership in his nfl profiles... is just too bad for the team that drafted him. It shows, that's all.
I didn't start it to call out the few who got extremely nasty and belligerent about being disagreed with. Are you feeling guilty? Methinks thou dost complain too much. lol
Not even one nanny nanny boo boo?
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I'm just curious as to the point or end-game for this thread? Right now it screams of self aggrandizing.
We're not comparing for the sake of opponent evaluation, pro bowl roster merits or the like... So what conclusion are we looking to reach here that doesnt involve thinly veiled and vague insults?
I'm just curious as to the point or end-game for this thread? Right now it screams of self aggrandizing.
I'm here for the juxtaposition of Kal's and Kompany's character evaluations.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Even if he busts out, as a first round pick Rosen has a nice retirement fund. Collected at least $11 million+ so far.
Regarding Lamar, the Browns had better hope he's another RG III, at least on the field- don't wish injury on anyone.
I'm not wanting him to face injury.. I just want him to flame out.. I want him to get fat , happy and resting on his laurels.... Defenses have to quit playing into his hands like the Clams did... And quit being mentally scared of him...
I'm not wanting him to face injury.. I just want him to flame out.. I want him to get fat , happy and resting on his laurels.... Defenses have to quit playing into his hands like the Clams did... And quit being mentally scared of him...
RG3 was a low IQ runner. He banged into people out of bounds and broke his arm, could not slide. Lamar is the Walter Payton of zig zag.
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