Looking back - Josh Allen vs Josh Rosen
-
Hey for what it's worth I thought that Josh Rosen was probably going to be the guy most ready to step into an NFL quarterback job. As you know my heart said Baker Mayfield. I'm glad I was wrong about Rosen and I'm glad we don't have him. I don't care about Josh Allen ' or Sam Darnold and I don't care about Lamar Jackson.
WSS
-
Rosen is an arrogant prick. Recall when the 10th player chosen in the draft said that the 9 picks in front of him were mistakes..
Looks like his comment came back to bite him. Looking back at the top 10 picks, it's apparent Rosen was the first mistake. Glad to be witnessing his demise.
-
I'm just curious as to the point or end-game for this thread? Right now it screams of self aggrandizing.
We're not comparing for the sake of opponent evaluation, pro bowl roster merits or the like... So what conclusion are we looking to reach here that doesnt involve thinly veiled and vague insults?
-
I'm just curious as to the point or end-game for this thread? Right now it screams of self aggrandizing.
We're not comparing for the sake of opponent evaluation, pro bowl roster merits or the like... So what conclusion are we looking to reach here that doesnt involve thinly veiled and vague insults?
I'm just curious as to the point or end-game for this thread? Right now it screams of self aggrandizing.
We're not comparing for the sake of opponent evaluation, pro bowl roster merits or the like... So what conclusion are we looking to reach here that doesnt involve thinly veiled and vague insults?
How about - the importance of evaluating character...leadership...love for the game... in the future. Like, in draft picks?
The Browns chose wisely for a qb. The teams who picked rudoolph and rosen picked wrongley. ....wrongly? lol.
The calloway/corbett/Gordon desperation chances taken... keep holding the Browns back. If the point was self-aggrandizing - hardly, I can be wrong about stuff - but I think it's important after that fiasco - to look at the hearts of players, not just how they test in workouts. Not on the narrow focus of "best pocket passer in the draft".
I like the second chance thing, but it seems it's all too often like rolling the dice, and the Browns, as well as other teams, lose their money. The old saying "those who don't know/ignore history tend to repeat it" is more the point.
Maybe a good example is Corbett. About the same size as Bitonio,.... but Bitonio has the heart of a lion, as does Joe Thomas.
But Corbett? has only started two games, played in three since he left the Browns? Nope. No fierceness to compete, let alone win.
No love for the game, no heart. The lack of attention paid to the red flags on character/leadership in his nfl profiles... is just too bad for the team that drafted him. It shows, that's all.
I didn't start it to call out the few who got extremely nasty and belligerent about being disagreed with. Are you feeling guilty? Methinks thou dost complain too much. lol
-
I'm just curious as to the point or end-game for this thread? Right now it screams of self aggrandizing.
We're not comparing for the sake of opponent evaluation, pro bowl roster merits or the like... So what conclusion are we looking to reach here that doesnt involve thinly veiled and vague insults?
How about - the importance of evaluating character...leadership...love for the game... in the future. Like, in draft picks?
The Browns chose wisely for a qb. The teams who picked rudoolph and rosen picked wrongley. ....wrongly? lol.
The calloway/corbett/Gordon desperation chances taken... keep holding the Browns back. If the point was self-aggrandizing - hardly, I can be wrong about stuff - but I think it's important after that fiasco - to look at the hearts of players, not just how they test in workouts. Not on the narrow focus of "best pocket passer in the draft".
I like the second chance thing, but it seems it's all too often like rolling the dice, and the Browns, as well as other teams, lose their money. The old saying "those who don't know/ignore history tend to repeat it" is more the point.
Maybe a good example is Corbett. About the same size as Bitonio,.... but Bitonio has the heart of a lion, as does Joe Thomas.
But Corbett? has only started two games, played in three since he left the Browns? Nope. No fierceness to compete, let alone win.
No love for the game, no heart. The lack of attention paid to the red flags on character/leadership in his nfl profiles... is just too bad for the team that drafted him. It shows, that's all.
I didn't start it to call out the few who got extremely nasty and belligerent about being disagreed with. Are you feeling guilty? Methinks thou dost complain too much. lol
How about - the importance of evaluating character...leadership...love for the game... in the future. Like, in draft picks?
The Browns chose wisely for a qb. The teams who picked rudoolph and rosen picked wrongley. ....wrongly? lol.
The calloway/corbett/Gordon desperation chances taken... keep holding the Browns back. If the point was self-aggrandizing - hardly, I can be wrong about stuff - but I think it's important after that fiasco - to look at the hearts of players, not just how they test in workouts. Not on the narrow focus of "best pocket passer in the draft".
I like the second chance thing, but it seems it's all too often like rolling the dice, and the Browns, as well as other teams, lose their money. The old saying "those who don't know/ignore history tend to repeat it" is more the point.
Maybe a good example is Corbett. About the same size as Bitonio,.... but Bitonio has the heart of a lion, as does Joe Thomas.
But Corbett? has only started two games, played in three since he left the Browns? Nope. No fierceness to compete, let alone win.
No love for the game, no heart. The lack of attention paid to the red flags on character/leadership in his nfl profiles... is just too bad for the team that drafted him. It shows, that's all.
I didn't start it to call out the few who got extremely nasty and belligerent about being disagreed with. Are you feeling guilty? Methinks thou dost complain too much. lol
Not even one nanny nanny boo boo?
-
I'm just curious as to the point or end-game for this thread? Right now it screams of self aggrandizing.
We're not comparing for the sake of opponent evaluation, pro bowl roster merits or the like... So what conclusion are we looking to reach here that doesnt involve thinly veiled and vague insults?
I'm just curious as to the point or end-game for this thread? Right now it screams of self aggrandizing.
I'm here for the juxtaposition of Kal's and Kompany's character evaluations.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Even if he busts out, as a first round pick Rosen has a nice retirement fund. Collected at least $11 million+ so far.
Regarding Lamar, the Browns had better hope he's another RG III, at least on the field- don't wish injury on anyone.
I'm not wanting him to face injury.. I just want him to flame out.. I want him to get fat , happy and resting on his laurels.... Defenses have to quit playing into his hands like the Clams did... And quit being mentally scared of him...
I'm not wanting him to face injury.. I just want him to flame out.. I want him to get fat , happy and resting on his laurels.... Defenses have to quit playing into his hands like the Clams did... And quit being mentally scared of him...
RG3 was a low IQ runner. He banged into people out of bounds and broke his arm, could not slide. Lamar is the Walter Payton of zig zag.
-
How about - the importance of evaluating character...leadership...love for the game... in the future. Like, in draft picks?
The Browns chose wisely for a qb. The teams who picked rudoolph and rosen picked wrongley. ....wrongly? lol.
The calloway/corbett/Gordon desperation chances taken... keep holding the Browns back. If the point was self-aggrandizing - hardly, I can be wrong about stuff - but I think it's important after that fiasco - to look at the hearts of players, not just how they test in workouts. Not on the narrow focus of "best pocket passer in the draft".
I like the second chance thing, but it seems it's all too often like rolling the dice, and the Browns, as well as other teams, lose their money. The old saying "those who don't know/ignore history tend to repeat it" is more the point.
Maybe a good example is Corbett. About the same size as Bitonio,.... but Bitonio has the heart of a lion, as does Joe Thomas.
But Corbett? has only started two games, played in three since he left the Browns? Nope. No fierceness to compete, let alone win.
No love for the game, no heart. The lack of attention paid to the red flags on character/leadership in his nfl profiles... is just too bad for the team that drafted him. It shows, that's all.
I didn't start it to call out the few who got extremely nasty and belligerent about being disagreed with. Are you feeling guilty? Methinks thou dost complain too much. lol
Not even one nanny nanny boo boo?
Not even one nanny nanny boo boo?
Nope, I'm much too humble.
-
-
That's precisely how everyone outside of NEO views Baker, and he's done little to dispute that so far.
At the present - Lamar Jackson is clearly better than all the others combined. It's not even close.
which is complete bs. Baker has outstanding leadership. and a fierce love of competition. Jackson is succeeding so far only because of his amazing athletic talent in scrambling. It didn't work much for him vs the Browns early on. He CAN throw, too, but it depends on the wr/secondary matchups. We'll see if he can continue the magic. He has the offensive line and defense..... etc etc.
-
I'm here for the juxtaposition of Kal's and Kompany's character evaluations.
It's like the Political Board puked all over the Browns forum.
-
Rosen is an arrogant prick. Recall when the 10th player chosen in the draft said that the 9 picks in front of him were mistakes..
Looks like his comment came back to bite him. Looking back at the top 10 picks, it's apparent Rosen was the first mistake. Glad to be witnessing his demise.
Rosen is an arrogant prick. Recall when the 10th player chosen in the draft said that the 9 picks in front of him were mistakes..
Looks like his comment came back to bite him. Looking back at the top 10 picks, it's apparent Rosen was the first mistake. Glad to be witnessing his demise.
The difference between you and me. I don't cheer for anyone else's failure. FWIW, just having enough athletic talent to make it to an NFL tryout, much less an active roster is a tremendously talented individual. Way back in High School we had the Juniors- Seniors Intramural Championship basketball game. I was on the Junior team, I mentioned elsewhere I had enough athletic talent to win a couple letters in tennis on the collegiate level. The Seniors had a couple guys skilled enough to get full scholarship rides to major colleges. LZ was the starting tailback for Ohio State behind John Brockington. I got to witness what sub 4.4 speed looked like up close and personal. Oh, he got a tryout to the Browns training camp, blew out his knee and that was the end of his pro career.
Rosen is a self absorbed prick.. Couldnt happen to a bigger dickhead...
Have you ever met him?
Tell me about it....
How about - the importance of evaluating character...leadership...love for the game... in the future. Like, in draft picks?
The Browns chose wisely for a qb. The teams who picked rudoolph and rosen picked wrongley. ....wrongly? lol.
The calloway/corbett/Gordon desperation chances taken... keep holding the Browns back. If the point was self-aggrandizing - hardly, I can be wrong about stuff - but I think it's important after that fiasco - to look at the hearts of players, not just how they test in workouts. Not on the narrow focus of "best pocket passer in the draft".
I like the second chance thing, but it seems it's all too often like rolling the dice, and the Browns, as well as other teams, lose their money. The old saying "those who don't know/ignore history tend to repeat it" is more the point.
Maybe a good example is Corbett. About the same size as Bitonio,.... but Bitonio has the heart of a lion, as does Joe Thomas.
But Corbett? has only started two games, played in three since he left the Browns? Nope. No fierceness to compete, let alone win.
No love for the game, no heart. The lack of attention paid to the red flags on character/leadership in his nfl profiles... is just too bad for the team that drafted him. It shows, that's all.
I didn't start it to call out the few who got extremely nasty and belligerent about being disagreed with. Are you feeling guilty? Methinks thou dost complain too much. lol
Sorry Cal- it's more about talent. Calloway and Gordon were certainly known character risks, but not lacking in the talent department. Plenty other talented guys have flamed out in the past over drugs.
Corbett was a talent mistake- it happens. I don't buy that crap he wasn't trying as hard as he humanly could. Possible Rosen may eventually fail in talent category, but if you think he's riding the pine because of an attitude problem? BS!!!! There's been say around a dozen or two- of highly drafted qbs that failed because of faulty talent evaluation. Joey Harrington and Akilli Smith immediately come to mind. FAR more talent goofs than character goofs like the all time bust Ryan Leaf, Todd Marijanovich, or our own Johnny Football.
-
That's precisely how everyone outside of NEO views Baker, and he's done little to dispute that so far.
At the present - Lamar Jackson is clearly better than all the others combined. It's not even close.
which is complete bs. Baker has outstanding leadership. and a fierce love of competition. Jackson is succeeding so far only because of his amazing athletic talent in scrambling. It didn't work much for him vs the Browns early on. He CAN throw, too, but it depends on the wr/secondary matchups. We'll see if he can continue the magic. He has the offensive line and defense..... etc etc.
which is complete bs. Baker has outstanding leadership. and a fierce love of competition.
Jackson is succeeding so far only because of his amazing athletic talent in scrambling.
It didn't work much for him vs the Browns early on. He CAN throw, too, but it depends on the wr/secondary matchups. We'll see if he can continue the magic. He has the offensive line and defense..... etc etc.
Which is funny because, to many eyes here, that wasn't always such the case. Especially during the rough start to the current season. Being loud and "fierce" doesn't always = leadership.
Interesting in that one of your dismissals of Rosen was noting Murray's success. Not acknowledging the fact that Kyler is every bit as dangerous of a short area scrambler as Lamar. Yet here you are dismissing LJ as being successful ONLY because of his athletic talent. Quite the spin spin.
Right now all I'm seeing are a bunch of half concocted cliche's about "leadership" and "heart". Of which we have no true measure for and more importantly for the sake of this counter argument - do not appear to be anything resembling the reasons for Rosen's current lack of success. Hoorta is right, Talent is superior to all. If not, Tim Tebow would be the best to lace em' up.
Sorry, but this thread is premature. And it's also a bit early to talk about being humble while attempting taking a victory lap 3/4 of the way through year 2.
edit: And is this "leadership" "heart" and "Character" something you've always evaluated on? Because if you're going to claim this as your grand victory of insight into players some of us don't see, then we can always peep back over to your oversight of one Johnny Manziel. But I don't think we care to go back down that road.
double edit: Mostly because I remember beating you over the head with it then. So lets do something smart and revisit this thread in another year or 2.
at ease.
-
It's like the Political Board puked all over the Browns forum.
I just went back and re-read the posts and the only one who puked politics all over this topic was you.
-
Rosen is an arrogant prick. Recall when the 10th player chosen in the draft said that the 9 picks in front of him were mistakes..
Looks like his comment came back to bite him. Looking back at the top 10 picks, it's apparent Rosen was the first mistake. Glad to be witnessing his demise.
The difference between you and me. I don't cheer for anyone else's failure. FWIW, just having enough athletic talent to make it to an NFL tryout, much less an active roster is a tremendously talented individual. Way back in High School we had the Juniors- Seniors Intramural Championship basketball game. I was on the Junior team, I mentioned elsewhere I had enough athletic talent to win a couple letters in tennis on the collegiate level. The Seniors had a couple guys skilled enough to get full scholarship rides to major colleges. LZ was the starting tailback for Ohio State behind John Brockington. I got to witness what sub 4.4 speed looked like up close and personal. Oh, he got a tryout to the Browns training camp, blew out his knee and that was the end of his pro career.
Rosen is a self absorbed prick.. Couldnt happen to a bigger dickhead...
Have you ever met him?
Tell me about it....
How about - the importance of evaluating character...leadership...love for the game... in the future. Like, in draft picks?
The Browns chose wisely for a qb. The teams who picked rudoolph and rosen picked wrongley. ....wrongly? lol.
The calloway/corbett/Gordon desperation chances taken... keep holding the Browns back. If the point was self-aggrandizing - hardly, I can be wrong about stuff - but I think it's important after that fiasco - to look at the hearts of players, not just how they test in workouts. Not on the narrow focus of "best pocket passer in the draft".
I like the second chance thing, but it seems it's all too often like rolling the dice, and the Browns, as well as other teams, lose their money. The old saying "those who don't know/ignore history tend to repeat it" is more the point.
Maybe a good example is Corbett. About the same size as Bitonio,.... but Bitonio has the heart of a lion, as does Joe Thomas.
But Corbett? has only started two games, played in three since he left the Browns? Nope. No fierceness to compete, let alone win.
No love for the game, no heart. The lack of attention paid to the red flags on character/leadership in his nfl profiles... is just too bad for the team that drafted him. It shows, that's all.
I didn't start it to call out the few who got extremely nasty and belligerent about being disagreed with. Are you feeling guilty? Methinks thou dost complain too much. lol
Sorry Cal- it's more about talent. Calloway and Gordon were certainly known character risks, but not lacking in the talent department. Plenty other talented guys have flamed out in the past over drugs.
Corbett was a talent mistake- it happens. I don't buy that crap he wasn't trying as hard as he humanly could. Possible Rosen may eventually fail in talent category, but if you think he's riding the pine because of an attitude problem? BS!!!! There's been say around a dozen or two- of highly drafted qbs that failed because of faulty talent evaluation. Joey Harrington and Akilli Smith immediately come to mind. FAR more talent goofs than character goofs like the all time bust Ryan Leaf, Todd Marijanovich, or our own Johnny Football.
-
It's like the Political Board puked all over the Browns forum.
I just went back and re-read the posts and the only one who puked politics all over this topic was you.
-
which is complete bs. Baker has outstanding leadership. and a fierce love of competition.
Jackson is succeeding so far only because of his amazing athletic talent in scrambling.
It didn't work much for him vs the Browns early on. He CAN throw, too, but it depends on the wr/secondary matchups. We'll see if he can continue the magic. He has the offensive line and defense..... etc etc.
Which is funny because, to many eyes here, that wasn't always such the case. Especially during the rough start to the current season. Being loud and "fierce" doesn't always = leadership.
Interesting in that one of your dismissals of Rosen was noting Murray's success. Not acknowledging the fact that Kyler is every bit as dangerous of a short area scrambler as Lamar. Yet here you are dismissing LJ as being successful ONLY because of his athletic talent. Quite the spin spin.
Right now all I'm seeing are a bunch of half concocted cliche's about "leadership" and "heart". Of which we have no true measure for and more importantly for the sake of this counter argument - do not appear to be anything resembling the reasons for Rosen's current lack of success. Hoorta is right, Talent is superior to all. If not, Tim Tebow would be the best to lace em' up.
Sorry, but this thread is premature. And it's also a bit early to talk about being humble while attempting taking a victory lap 3/4 of the way through year 2.
edit: And is this "leadership" "heart" and "Character" something you've always evaluated on? Because if you're going to claim this as your grand victory of insight into players some of us don't see, then we can always peep back over to your oversight of one Johnny Manziel. But I don't think we care to go back down that road.
double edit: Mostly because I remember beating you over the head with it then. So lets do something smart and revisit this thread in another year or 2.
at ease.
Because if you're going to claim this as your grand victory of insight into players some of us don't see, then we can always peep back over to your oversight of one Johnny Manziel. But I don't think we care to go back down that road.
double edit: Mostly because I remember beating you over the head with it then. So lets do something smart and revisit this thread in another year or 2.
yep, you called yourself out. lol and you erred about Johnny Manziel. Ask Canton Mike - I despised a pick of manziel. I had zero use for him before the draft.
If you want to get all outraged about it, why enter the thread in the first place? It isn't a "grand victory" - it's what I value. It's how I'm wired, you can take it or leave it. Shove it, even.
There are plenty of examples of physical talent that fizzles out because the heart isn't there. The character isn't there. the love for the game isn't there. Corbett was fairly highly regarded in the draft. I was shocked we took him where we did.
More than a few players in the NFL have said that when they got to the pros, everybody was really good back in college. It's a step up in competition. For a guy like Corbett, he had a nice chance of being the superior talent. In the pros, it's a war. And Corbett played LT, taking over for....Bitonio. So, you'd think he would be a safe bet. Similar physical talent obviously. So what is the difference? Seems obvious to me.
-
Because if you're going to claim this as your grand victory of insight into players some of us don't see, then we can always peep back over to your oversight of one Johnny Manziel. But I don't think we care to go back down that road.
double edit: Mostly because I remember beating you over the head with it then. So lets do something smart and revisit this thread in another year or 2.
yep, you called yourself out. lol and you erred about Johnny Manziel. Ask Canton Mike - I despised a pick of manziel. I had zero use for him before the draft.
If you want to get all outraged about it, why enter the thread in the first place? It isn't a "grand victory" - it's what I value. It's how I'm wired, you can take it or leave it. Shove it, even.
There are plenty of examples of physical talent that fizzles out because the heart isn't there. The character isn't there. the love for the game isn't there. Corbett was fairly highly regarded in the draft. I was shocked we took him where we did.
More than a few players in the NFL have said that when they got to the pros, everybody was really good back in college. It's a step up in competition. For a guy like Corbett, he had a nice chance of being the superior talent. In the pros, it's a war. And Corbett played LT, taking over for....Bitonio. So, you'd think he would be a safe bet. Similar physical talent obviously. So what is the difference? Seems obvious to me.
yep, you called yourself out. lol and you erred about Johnny Manziel. Ask Canton Mike - I despised a pick of manziel. I had zero use for him before the draft.
If you want to get all outraged about it, why enter the thread in the first place? It isn't a "grand victory" - it's what I value. It's how I'm wired, you can take it or leave it. Shove it, even.
There are plenty of examples of physical talent that fizzles out because the heart isn't there. The character isn't there. the love for the game isn't there. Corbett was fairly highly regarded in the draft. I was shocked we took him where we did.
More than a few players in the NFL have said that when they got to the pros, everybody was really good back in college. It's a step up in competition. For a guy like Corbett, he had a nice chance of being the superior talent. In the pros, it's a war. And Corbett played LT, taking over for....Bitonio. So, you'd think he would be a safe bet. Similar physical talent obviously. So what is the difference? Seems obvious to me.
It's almost impressive how little this guy knows about football AND how completely he lacks any self-awareness.
Almost impressive.
-
which is complete bs. Baker has outstanding leadership. and a fierce love of competition.
Jackson is succeeding so far only because of his amazing athletic talent in scrambling.
It didn't work much for him vs the Browns early on. He CAN throw, too, but it depends on the wr/secondary matchups. We'll see if he can continue the magic. He has the offensive line and defense..... etc etc.
Which is funny because, to many eyes here, that wasn't always such the case. Especially during the rough start to the current season. Being loud and "fierce" doesn't always = leadership.
Interesting in that one of your dismissals of Rosen was noting Murray's success. Not acknowledging the fact that Kyler is every bit as dangerous of a short area scrambler as Lamar. Yet here you are dismissing LJ as being successful ONLY because of his athletic talent. Quite the spin spin.
Right now all I'm seeing are a bunch of half concocted cliche's about "leadership" and "heart". Of which we have no true measure for and more importantly for the sake of this counter argument - do not appear to be anything resembling the reasons for Rosen's current lack of success. Hoorta is right, Talent is superior to all. If not, Tim Tebow would be the best to lace em' up.
Sorry, but this thread is premature. And it's also a bit early to talk about being humble while attempting taking a victory lap 3/4 of the way through year 2.
edit: And is this "leadership" "heart" and "Character" something you've always evaluated on? Because if you're going to claim this as your grand victory of insight into players some of us don't see, then we can always peep back over to your oversight of one Johnny Manziel. But I don't think we care to go back down that road.
double edit: Mostly because I remember beating you over the head with it then. So lets do something smart and revisit this thread in another year or 2.
at ease.
Being loud and "fierce" doesn't always = leadership.
Interesting in that one of your dismissals of Rosen was noting Murray's success. Not acknowledging the fact that Kyler is every bit as dangerous of a short area scrambler as Lamar. Yet here you are dismissing LJ as being successful ONLY because of his athletic talent. Quite the spin spin.
egad. really? NOBODY is saying "fierce" = leadership. I said "fierce love of competition".
and everybody in the NFL knows Kyler is that dangerous as a scrambler. But Murray is far more an accomplished passer. It's not spin at all. in nearly the same number of games started, one game different - Lamar's TD passes - 30. Kyler's TD passes - 42. Look at completion percentage. Lamar - 59.1. Kyler 85.7. Rushing attempts - 260 - Lamar. Only 140 rushing attempts for Murray. It's just a fact. Lamar relied far more on rushing, and Murray is far more the passing qb who can also run like crazy. So, I've shown that what I was saying is true. Your turn. Just whining about "character and leadership" being subjective doesn't cut it. Go ask Flugels about being an offensive lineman. He's a bit smallish for that. But he had that fierce competitiveness and love for the game that coaches love.
Games Started (GS)
Lamar Jackson 13 (2017) Kyler Murray 14 (2018) Touchdown Passes (TD)
Lamar Jackson 30 (2016) Kyler Murray 42 (2018) Completion Percentage (Cmp%)
Lamar Jackson 59.1 (2017)
Kyler Murray 85.7 (2017)Rushing Attempts (Att)
Lamar Jackson 260 (2016)
Kyler Murray 140 (2018)Rushing Yards (Yds)
Lamar Jackson 1601 (2017)
Kyler Murray 1001 (2018)Rushing Touchdowns (TD)
Lamar Jackson 21 (2016)
Kyler Murray 12 (2018)
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login