Looking back - Josh Allen vs Josh Rosen
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So, FACT: The Arizona Cardinals draft The Chosen Rosen, then dump him like a hot rock for only a second round pick, and after being traded to Miami, he still isn't (yet) starting.
Now, instead of getting all personal, why don't you or Tiam or Tour explain why, with Rosen being "the by far best NFL ready best pocket passer" was traded by Arizona, and still not starting with Miami?
He has the talent? right? So. what's up, doc?
The qb I wanted, obviously, was Allen, who struggled his first year, but has improved and they are headed towards at least a wild card to the playoffs in Allen's second year.
I only brought it up to talk about evaluating players based on how great they WANT to be, and not so much on how great they COULD BE if they cared enough to work at it, which doesn't exclude talent level at all, of course.
If it was all that simple, then why did Arizona make the mistake? They know more about football than anybody else around here.
Now, instead of getting all personal, why don't you or Tiam or Tour explain why, with Rosen being "the by far best NFL ready best pocket passer" was traded by Arizona, and still not starting with Miami?
Easy... neither team gave him a pocket.
... and you do not seem to be aware that Rosen did get starts in Miami.
As for the trade... also easy... when AZ hired Kingsbury it was clear that they were no longer going to run an Offense that matched Rosen's skill set. So after drafting that style QB in Murray they immediately traded him for that year's #32 overall plus a 5th-round pick in 2020, which is not nothing especially in light of him clearly not being part of AZ's future.
Any other questions?
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They know more about football than anybody else around here.
... but according to you less about leadership.
You continue to pretend that thru observation you can evaluate the intangibles, leadership, heart, etc., when you have never shown the ability to evaluate the tangibles that are there for all to see. Then you simply embrace any media that supports your take and reject any other.
It's the same in every section of this Forum. It's just less dangerous in this section.
which is complete bs. Baker has outstanding leadership. and a fierce love of competition. Jackson is succeeding so far only because of his amazing athletic talent in scrambling. It didn't work much for him vs the Browns early on. He CAN throw, too, but it depends on the wr/secondary matchups. We'll see if he can continue the magic. He has the offensive line and defense..... etc etc.
lol... Is that why Ravens' players surround Jackson and chant "MVP"?
.. but according to you less about leadership.
You continue to pretend that thru observation you can evaluate the intangibles, leadership, heart, etc., when you have never shown the ability to evaluate the tangibles that are there for all to see. Then you simply embrace any media that supports your take and reject any other.
It's the same in every section of this Forum. It's just less dangerous in this section.
which means absolutely nothing and isn't true. I've been watching the Browns since the early days. Leroy Kelly, etc. Wasn't a Jim Brown fan. attitude. I'm not pretending anything. I knew outstanding leaders in the military, and alpha male pretenders who can't be disagreed with because it deflates their core. Then, they go into a thread and make it belligerent and personal. I don't post very much...but I'm not going to kiss your pinko ring because you played football and I didn't.
Brag on how you played football - I don't care. Plenty of guys who played football were stupid in life, and screwed up their lives.
I simply post from different references, to respond to your bitching that I didn't play football. Phil Robertson had the freaking talent. Bradshaw knows far more than you, and he says Robertson had all the talent in the world,
Ignore it all you want - to protect your ego, but you are extremely pissed, sorry bout that, but Phil Robertson's heart wasn't in it. And he decided he didn't want to play for money. There are guys who did decide to play for money, and some languish around the NFL, some ruin their careers with off the field garbage, etc.
That is a lack of character on the latter.
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They know more about football than anybody else around here.
... but according to you less about leadership.
You continue to pretend that thru observation you can evaluate the intangibles, leadership, heart, etc., when you have never shown the ability to evaluate the tangibles that are there for all to see. Then you simply embrace any media that supports your take and reject any other.
It's the same in every section of this Forum. It's just less dangerous in this section.
which is complete bs. Baker has outstanding leadership. and a fierce love of competition. Jackson is succeeding so far only because of his amazing athletic talent in scrambling. It didn't work much for him vs the Browns early on. He CAN throw, too, but it depends on the wr/secondary matchups. We'll see if he can continue the magic. He has the offensive line and defense..... etc etc.
lol... Is that why Ravens' players surround Jackson and chant "MVP"?
lol... Is that why Ravens' players surround Jackson and chant "MVP"?
He's a star for them. I just explained the difference between Kyler and Lamar. Take it or leave it. Kyler is far more a passer, than a runner. I gave you stats on it in college. Grow up already. If you "don't care" you don't need to open the thread.
For all the guys who didn't play football for whatever reasons, we have a right to our perceptions about the game, too.
You mad, you and your little "boss, de plane, de plane" friend? Because you "knew" that the media labeled Rosen as being by far the most NFL ready, perfect pocket passer, and you went with it completely?100 percentsies? I wasn't going to call anybody out.
You called yourselves out ! LOL LOL
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Now, instead of getting all personal, why don't you or Tiam or Tour explain why, with Rosen being "the by far best NFL ready best pocket passer" was traded by Arizona, and still not starting with Miami?
Easy... neither team gave him a pocket.
... and you do not seem to be aware that Rosen did get starts in Miami.
As for the trade... also easy... when AZ hired Kingsbury it was clear that they were no longer going to run an Offense that matched Rosen's skill set. So after drafting that style QB in Murray they immediately traded him for that year's #32 overall plus a 5th-round pick in 2020, which is not nothing especially in light of him clearly not being part of AZ's future.
Any other questions?
Easy... neither team gave him a pocket.
... and you do not seem to be aware that Rosen did get starts in Miami.
As for the trade... also easy... when AZ hired Kingsbury it was clear that they were no longer going to run an Offense that matched Rosen's skill set. So after drafting that style QB in Murray they immediately traded him for that year's #32 overall plus a 5th-round pick in 2020, which is not nothing especially in light of him clearly not being part of AZ's future.
Any other questions?
Of course I know he got starts in Miami - and was replaced by an older former 7th round pick at qb. I watched him play. He was miserable. I actually hope the guy can go ahead and have a solid career - who wants somebody to be a failure?
I simply call em as I sees em. Making excuses for Rosen is your take? He isn't making excuses, he's manned up to his weaknesses. He had problems with his attitude in the draft - his work ethic was blah, his entitlement crap was sky high. He WAS a prick. Like I already said - We watched a prick yellow rope grow up a ton, because the more he was a prick, the more miserable and failure he was. He grew up and became one of us. It took time. A lot of folks grow up from adversity in one fashion or another.
from the Miami Herald, and Rosen himself:
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https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article237362129.html
"But here’s something more encouraging: The quarterback that could not author the kind of results Fitzpatrick is currently getting didn’t just fade into the shadows and allow himself to be forgotten. Josh Rosen didn’t leave the big stage and simply become an observer with little say in the present and no prospects for the future.
Josh Rosen recognized he failed. And he’s been attacking that failure behind the scenes.
“If bad things happen, everything didn’t go correctly,” Rosen said during a private moment this week. “So you have to figure out what went wrong and fix it. I got a lot of things that I’m fixing and I think I’m learning a lot and fixing a lot of things behind the scenes right now and developing a lot of skills.”
Rosen started three games in late September through mid-October and all three were Dolphins losses. Fitzpatrick regained the starting job at Buffalo on Oct. 20 and will continue to start Sunday, again against the Bills.
And while Fitzpatrick has done the seemingly endless work of preparing for each start, Rosen has begun shadowing Fitzpatrick. He’s learning from Fitzpatrick to a degree that he probably didn’t attempt previously.
Because Rosen needs more than to improve on the physical aspects of playing quarterback. He seems quite gifted in that area. He needs to improve on the way he studies, the way he watches film, the way he plans and prepares for specific defenses and their coordinators.
And he’s doing that.
“I’ve made a lot of drastic improvements since I stopped starting, just by watching Fitz prepare for a game,” Rosen said. “I’m shadowing his schedule and seeing how he functions and what I can do for myself and getting a lot better at studying and watching film and anticipating where the ball is going.”
“There’s just so many levels to it, and I didn’t really realize that, honestly, until relatively recently. And it’s kind of cool to be able to dive into those different levels as I watch Fitz play and how he functions.”
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lol... Is that why Ravens' players surround Jackson and chant "MVP"?
He's a star for them. I just explained the difference between Kyler and Lamar. Take it or leave it. Kyler is far more a passer, than a runner. I gave you stats on it in college. Grow up already. If you "don't care" you don't need to open the thread.
For all the guys who didn't play football for whatever reasons, we have a right to our perceptions about the game, too.
You mad, you and your little "boss, de plane, de plane" friend? Because you "knew" that the media labeled Rosen as being by far the most NFL ready, perfect pocket passer, and you went with it completely?100 percentsies? I wasn't going to call anybody out.
You called yourselves out ! LOL LOL
For all the guys who didn't play football for whatever reasons, we have a right to our perceptions about the game, too.
I'm pretty confident that the reason you didn't play football is because of your labia.
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At first I was like...
.gif.9d8f2c46c8b3bedb7968929de42138c2.gif)
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And then I was all like...
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After taking 10 seconds to think about it... Ended up all like.
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Man did this thread die. 🥷
You weren't titillated by cal's enthralling stories about some fake hillbilly and his love for the outdoors?
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You weren't titillated by cal's enthralling stories about some fake hillbilly and his love for the outdoors?
Can we sum it up Cal =I was SO right about Rosen, even if I have no first hand information on how hard he's trying? Sort of like Corbett?
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You weren't titillated by cal's enthralling stories about some fake hillbilly and his love for the outdoors?
Can we sum it up Cal =I was SO right about Rosen, even if I have no first hand information on how hard he's trying? Sort of like Corbett?
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lol... Is that why Ravens' players surround Jackson and chant "MVP"?
He's a star for them. I just explained the difference between Kyler and Lamar. Take it or leave it. Kyler is far more a passer, than a runner. I gave you stats on it in college. Grow up already. If you "don't care" you don't need to open the thread.
For all the guys who didn't play football for whatever reasons, we have a right to our perceptions about the game, too.
You mad, you and your little "boss, de plane, de plane" friend? Because you "knew" that the media labeled Rosen as being by far the most NFL ready, perfect pocket passer, and you went with it completely?100 percentsies? I wasn't going to call anybody out.
You called yourselves out ! LOL LOL
He's a star for them. I just explained the difference between Kyler and Lamar. Take it or leave it. Kyler is far more a passer, than a runner. I gave you stats on it in college. Grow up already. If you "don't care" you don't need to open the thread.
For all the guys who didn't play football for whatever reasons, we have a right to our perceptions about the game, too.
You mad, you and your little "boss, de plane, de plane" friend? Because you "knew" that the media labeled Rosen as being by far the most NFL ready, perfect pocket passer, and you went with it completely?100 percentsies? I wasn't going to call anybody out.
You called yourselves out ! LOL LOL
The problem is- that won't buy you a cup of coffee assuming you're right about Rosen and Allen- and it's far too damn early to make a determination. Classic BS on the poly board- when beaten, change the subject- Kyler and Lamar have ZERO to do with your initial premise.
FWIW, you positing character, determination, and desire as a criteria as a primary predictor of success is about on the level of hooey BS as Ghoolie's offensive linemen are a dime a dozen.
Just give it a rest- I can give you a laundry list- starting in 2002 on how "right" I was predicting HOFers- and under performing busts. Want me to? So pack your duck call away and start calling ducks with it. OK?
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You weren't titillated by cal's enthralling stories about some fake hillbilly and his love for the outdoors?
Can we sum it up Cal =I was SO right about Rosen, even if I have no first hand information on how hard he's trying? Sort of like Corbett?
Can we sum it up Cal =I was SO right about Rosen, even if I have no first hand information on how hard he's trying? Sort of like Corbett?
Nope - I was the one who posted that. I didn't hate Rosen, I just had no respect for his attitude. Meanwhile, admits what I and others said about him. Good for him, personally and for his NFL career. I'm going by facts about Corbett, and drawing my own conclusions.
I don't need your alpha-whine boys band's permission, and neither does anyone else on this board who didn't play football but have watched the Browns since the Leroy Kelly days.
My work in this here thread is done. Wait...
"
Bills’ Josh Allen and Ravens’ Lamar Jackson will make NFL history for this stat Sunday
Updated Dec 03, 2019;Posted Dec 03, 2019"
"Buffalo Bills quarterback Josh Allen and Baltimore Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson are the two most successful signal callers from the 2018 draft class despite being the third and fifth quarterbacks selected."
" Their teams are a combined 19-5 on the season and both players are likely headed to the playoffs. "
"
On the other side, Allen hasn’t been as dependent on running the ball this season but it’s largely been due to him becoming a more effective passer. He’s rushed for 430 yards on about the same number of carries he had in his 12 games as a rookie, but he’s averaging almost two and a half yards per carry less. What hasn’t changed is Allen’s ability to score when running it. He has eight rushing touchdowns on the season and that’s the most by any quarterback in the league.
The Bills are coming off their most impressive game of the season in a 26-15 win in Dallas on Thanksgiving. The Bills sit at 9-3 and within a game of the New England Patriots in the AFC East."
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He's a star for them. I just explained the difference between Kyler and Lamar. Take it or leave it. Kyler is far more a passer, than a runner. I gave you stats on it in college. Grow up already. If you "don't care" you don't need to open the thread.
For all the guys who didn't play football for whatever reasons, we have a right to our perceptions about the game, too.
You mad, you and your little "boss, de plane, de plane" friend? Because you "knew" that the media labeled Rosen as being by far the most NFL ready, perfect pocket passer, and you went with it completely?100 percentsies? I wasn't going to call anybody out.
You called yourselves out ! LOL LOL
The problem is- that won't buy you a cup of coffee assuming you're right about Rosen and Allen- and it's far too damn early to make a determination. Classic BS on the poly board- when beaten, change the subject- Kyler and Lamar have ZERO to do with your initial premise.
FWIW, you positing character, determination, and desire as a criteria as a primary predictor of success is about on the level of hooey BS as Ghoolie's offensive linemen are a dime a dozen.
Just give it a rest- I can give you a laundry list- starting in 2002 on how "right" I was predicting HOFers- and under performing busts. Want me to? So pack your duck call away and start calling ducks with it. OK?
The problem is- that won't buy you a cup of coffee assuming you're right about Rosen and Allen- and it's far too damn early to make a determination. Classic BS on the poly board- when beaten, change the subject- Kyler and Lamar have ZERO to do with your initial premise.
FWIW, you positing character, determination, and desire as a criteria as a primary predictor of success is about on the level of hooey BS as Ghoolie's offensive linemen are a dime a dozen.
Just give it a rest- I can give you a laundry list- starting in 2002 on how "right" I was predicting HOFers- and under performing busts. Want me to? So pack your duck call away and start calling ducks with it. OK?
The intitial hostility was during the draft. I simply commented on looking back. History is important.
How about you and your two haters STFU and let other people have opinions too? we don't need your stinking permission.
Okay. Now I'm done, and yes, you all stunk up the thread and killed it, and now you complain about the stink.
Have a nice day.
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Can we sum it up Cal =I was SO right about Rosen, even if I have no first hand information on how hard he's trying? Sort of like Corbett?
Nope - I was the one who posted that. I didn't hate Rosen, I just had no respect for his attitude. Meanwhile, admits what I and others said about him. Good for him, personally and for his NFL career. I'm going by facts about Corbett, and drawing my own conclusions.
I don't need your alpha-whine boys band's permission, and neither does anyone else on this board who didn't play football but have watched the Browns since the Leroy Kelly days.
My work in this here thread is done. Wait...
"
Bills’ Josh Allen and Ravens’ Lamar Jackson will make NFL history for this stat Sunday
Updated Dec 03, 2019;Posted Dec 03, 2019"
"Buffalo Bills quarterback Josh Allen and Baltimore Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson are the two most successful signal callers from the 2018 draft class despite being the third and fifth quarterbacks selected."
" Their teams are a combined 19-5 on the season and both players are likely headed to the playoffs. "
"
On the other side, Allen hasn’t been as dependent on running the ball this season but it’s largely been due to him becoming a more effective passer. He’s rushed for 430 yards on about the same number of carries he had in his 12 games as a rookie, but he’s averaging almost two and a half yards per carry less. What hasn’t changed is Allen’s ability to score when running it. He has eight rushing touchdowns on the season and that’s the most by any quarterback in the league.
The Bills are coming off their most impressive game of the season in a 26-15 win in Dallas on Thanksgiving. The Bills sit at 9-3 and within a game of the New England Patriots in the AFC East."
Nope - I was the one who posted that. I didn't hate Rosen, I just had no respect for his attitude. Meanwhile, admits what I and others said about him. Good for him, personally and for his NFL career. I'm going by facts about Corbett, and drawing my own conclusions.
I don't need your alpha-whine boys band's permission, and neither does anyone else on this board who didn't play football but have watched the Browns since the Leroy Kelly days.
My work in this here thread is done. Wait...
"
Bills’ Josh Allen and Ravens’ Lamar Jackson will make NFL history for this stat Sunday
Updated Dec 03, 2019;Posted Dec 03, 2019"
"Buffalo Bills quarterback Josh Allen and Baltimore Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson are the two most successful signal callers from the 2018 draft class despite being the third and fifth quarterbacks selected."
" Their teams are a combined 19-5 on the season and both players are likely headed to the playoffs. "
"
On the other side, Allen hasn’t been as dependent on running the ball this season but it’s largely been due to him becoming a more effective passer. He’s rushed for 430 yards on about the same number of carries he had in his 12 games as a rookie, but he’s averaging almost two and a half yards per carry less. What hasn’t changed is Allen’s ability to score when running it. He has eight rushing touchdowns on the season and that’s the most by any quarterback in the league.
The Bills are coming off their most impressive game of the season in a 26-15 win in Dallas on Thanksgiving. The Bills sit at 9-3 and within a game of the New England Patriots in the AFC East."
Oh WOW, I've watched the Browns since the days of Jim Brown- in person- so I out rank you. If you think being in the military somehow relates to pro football,sorry- it doesn't.
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The problem is- that won't buy you a cup of coffee assuming you're right about Rosen and Allen- and it's far too damn early to make a determination. Classic BS on the poly board- when beaten, change the subject- Kyler and Lamar have ZERO to do with your initial premise.
FWIW, you positing character, determination, and desire as a criteria as a primary predictor of success is about on the level of hooey BS as Ghoolie's offensive linemen are a dime a dozen.
Just give it a rest- I can give you a laundry list- starting in 2002 on how "right" I was predicting HOFers- and under performing busts. Want me to? So pack your duck call away and start calling ducks with it. OK?
The intitial hostility was during the draft. I simply commented on looking back. History is important.
How about you and your two haters STFU and let other people have opinions too? we don't need your stinking permission.
Okay. Now I'm done, and yes, you all stunk up the thread and killed it, and now you complain about the stink.
Have a nice day.
The initial hostility was during the draft. I simply commented on looking back. History is important.
How about you and your two haters STFU and let other people have opinions too? we don't need your stinking permission.
Okay. Now I'm done, and yes, you all stunk up the thread and killed it, and now you complain about the stink.
Have a nice day.
Cal, you stunk it up holding on to an untenable position.
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The initial hostility was during the draft. I simply commented on looking back. History is important.
How about you and your two haters STFU and let other people have opinions too? we don't need your stinking permission.
Okay. Now I'm done, and yes, you all stunk up the thread and killed it, and now you complain about the stink.
Have a nice day.
Cal, you stunk it up holding on to an untenable position.
Cal, you stunk it up holding on to an untenable position.
Hey now, my dumb opinions are no cause for stink. Just ignore em. Certain folks can't let others have
opinions around here. Tiam and Tour didn't have to open the thread at all. and the rest of us don't need no stinking permission from them.
Have a nice day.
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Brilliantly sums up those who use the word "haters". Especially cringe worthy when it's anyone over the age of 16...
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The biggest thing people need to see (or realize) in both Jackson's and Allen's cases is how important organization, coaching, and scheming are to the success of a football team.
People quickly are forgetting Harbaugh was a bit "on the bubble" (which I thought was absurd) last year. The way the Ravens drafted these last two years specifically was built to play into Jackson's obvious God given ability to play the game. Unfortunately, we're seeing in many ways the exact opposite here in Cleveland lately. The reason we have 5 wins is strictly due to talent, but we're never going to "get over the hump" until we move into this mode of thinking,
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