Paul Finebaum: Kitchens is the worst hire in history
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i don't listen to the talking heads on espn for the most part....i like steven a. most of the time....he did not like the hire either...when all the espn folks say kitchens more or less was a bad hire, then there is something to it....i think he stinks just like the rest of the team...he might be the worse hire...look at the facts...records in most penalties...bad play calling.....letting blockhead mayfield control the team.....oh wait a minute...its doctor mayfield now....he made the diagnosis on the training staff's inability to fix yodell.....what else...oh....the garrett incident....and the best of all, the fucking tshirt incident...there is probably more that i cannot think of at this time...but man this was a garbage hire by a fucking owner that don't know shit about football...
Except...correct me if I am wrong......it was Dorsey's choice to make....simply to be approved by Haslam.
So, wouldn't it be more fair to place the majority of the blame on Dorsey....that is, if you feel there is blame to be assessed at all?
Except...correct me if I am wrong......it was Dorsey's choice to make....simply to be approved by Haslam.
So, wouldn't it be more fair to place the majority of the blame on Dorsey....that is, if you feel there is blame to be assessed at all?
Sticking to the Facts... https://cantonrep.com/sports/20190114/browns-gm-john-dorsey-outlines-process-of-hiring-freddie-kitchens-as-head-coach
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
Except...correct me if I am wrong......it was Dorsey's choice to make....simply to be approved by Haslam.
So, wouldn't it be more fair to place the majority of the blame on Dorsey....that is, if you feel there is blame to be assessed at all?
Except...correct me if I am wrong......it was Dorsey's choice to make....simply to be approved by Haslam.
So, wouldn't it be more fair to place the majority of the blame on Dorsey....that is, if you feel there is blame to be assessed at all?
i am hearing different stories with both parties involved....sure there is blame....there is lots of blame for this crappy season with all the expectations...if its dorsey, then he is to blame...but i am sure good ole hasshit had his say in the deal somewhere along the line...lets just say for now its both....and we the fans suffer once again...
i am hearing different stories with both parties involved....sure there is blame....there is lots of blame for this crappy season with all the expectations...if its dorsey, then he is to blame...but i am sure good ole hasshit had his say in the deal somewhere along the line...lets just say for now its both....and we the fans suffer once again...
Well...here is a question. Did Dorsey want a HC that he thought he could have complete control over? I think we all know that it was going to be difficult to have complete control over Gregg Williams.
I also heard that there was a split between the FO people: the "Football" people in the FO...Dorsey, Highsmith, Wolf, wanted Freddie. The "Analytics" people...headed by DePodesta wanted Ken Stefanski....currrent OC, I believe of the Vikings. The football people won out....which you would expect. But sometimes they don't always make the right choice.
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Except...correct me if I am wrong......it was Dorsey's choice to make....simply to be approved by Haslam.
So, wouldn't it be more fair to place the majority of the blame on Dorsey....that is, if you feel there is blame to be assessed at all?
Sticking to the Facts... https://cantonrep.com/sports/20190114/browns-gm-john-dorsey-outlines-process-of-hiring-freddie-kitchens-as-head-coach
Sticking to the Facts... https://cantonrep.com/sports/20190114/browns-gm-john-dorsey-outlines-process-of-hiring-freddie-kitchens-as-head-coach
That actually explains nothing....other than that Freddie was not on Dorsey's list of potential HC candidates over a year before he got the job. All that explains is that "so and so was not right for us going forward into the future" and that they felt that Kitchens "was right for us going forward in the future"....otherwise it tells us fuck all.....on why Ferd was hired or why the others were not. "Not right going forward in the future" is not an explanation, but an excuse.
I am sure that Dorsey didn't want to reveal the discussions on each candidate....and I am sure he may have fibbed on a few of them. "Was Bruce Arians age a factor"? Dorsey says no, but he may have been thinking: Godamn right it is....we don't want a 66 year old guy in here running this team" "Was Gregg Williams temperament a factor"...."no it was not, being the verbal response given....but "you're goddamn right its a factor, may have been the truth."
Neither Dorsey....nor any other GM/owner/whatever is ever going to tell the honest truth about why they chose X and said "Adios" to Y.
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Nick Saban was the worst hire. He was aweful at Mia. And then he lied and quit
"And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve." -
Sticking to the Facts... https://cantonrep.com/sports/20190114/browns-gm-john-dorsey-outlines-process-of-hiring-freddie-kitchens-as-head-coach
That actually explains nothing....other than that Freddie was not on Dorsey's list of potential HC candidates over a year before he got the job. All that explains is that "so and so was not right for us going forward into the future" and that they felt that Kitchens "was right for us going forward in the future"....otherwise it tells us fuck all.....on why Ferd was hired or why the others were not. "Not right going forward in the future" is not an explanation, but an excuse.
I am sure that Dorsey didn't want to reveal the discussions on each candidate....and I am sure he may have fibbed on a few of them. "Was Bruce Arians age a factor"? Dorsey says no, but he may have been thinking: Godamn right it is....we don't want a 66 year old guy in here running this team" "Was Gregg Williams temperament a factor"...."no it was not, being the verbal response given....but "you're goddamn right its a factor, may have been the truth."
Neither Dorsey....nor any other GM/owner/whatever is ever going to tell the honest truth about why they chose X and said "Adios" to Y.
Neither Dorsey....nor any other GM/owner/whatever is ever going to tell the honest truth about why they chose X and said "Adios" to Y.
The End.. those were Dorsey's quotes or quote what you believe..
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
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Neither Dorsey....nor any other GM/owner/whatever is ever going to tell the honest truth about why they chose X and said "Adios" to Y.
The End.. those were Dorsey's quotes or quote what you believe..
The End.. those were Dorsey's quotes or quote what you believe..
Yes, They were Dorsey's quotes...and as I said....they revealed absofuckinglutely nothing about why Ferd was chosen and others were not.
"we thought it best for the team going to the future". WTF is that supposed to mean? Its like a coach saying "we thought X QB gave us the best chance to win the game". If there were truth, then the HC would say "our starting QB, Joe Blow, was sucking swamp water". At least Tomlin admitted about Rudolph that he didn'nt think this duck guy "would get us killed". Dorsey didn't want to say "I didn't want to have to deal with Gregg Williams and his personality any more" Or "I think Arians is over the hill and he has had heart issues, and I know that the Cleveland Browns HC job is not for a guy with a weak heart".....nor did he .....or the other Green Bay crowd on this team want to admit "we dealt with McCarthy in Green Bay...and fuck him, we don't want his ass here". They would not admit "Freddie is so inexperienced that we know that he will have no choice but to follow our instructions on how to run this team"."It is best for the team going forward"......a horseshit cliche is there ever was one.
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i am hearing different stories with both parties involved....sure there is blame....there is lots of blame for this crappy season with all the expectations...if its dorsey, then he is to blame...but i am sure good ole hasshit had his say in the deal somewhere along the line...lets just say for now its both....and we the fans suffer once again...
Well...here is a question. Did Dorsey want a HC that he thought he could have complete control over? I think we all know that it was going to be difficult to have complete control over Gregg Williams.
I also heard that there was a split between the FO people: the "Football" people in the FO...Dorsey, Highsmith, Wolf, wanted Freddie. The "Analytics" people...headed by DePodesta wanted Ken Stefanski....currrent OC, I believe of the Vikings. The football people won out....which you would expect. But sometimes they don't always make the right choice.
Well...here is a question. Did Dorsey want a HC that he thought he could have complete control over? I think we all know that it was going to be difficult to have complete control over Gregg Williams.
I also heard that there was a split between the FO people: the "Football" people in the FO...Dorsey, Highsmith, Wolf, wanted Freddie. The "Analytics" people...headed by DePodesta wanted Ken Stefanski....currrent OC, I believe of the Vikings. The football people won out....which you would expect. But sometimes they don't always make the right choice.
hey i forgot to add, it could have been doctor mayfield who made the choice....don't forget, he is a doctor now.....doctors have alot of power....calling doctor moe, doctor larry, doctor curly....remember that stooges episode.....i just have to add some comedy here because i am totally sick of all this soap opera bullshit....
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Sticking to the Facts... https://cantonrep.com/sports/20190114/browns-gm-john-dorsey-outlines-process-of-hiring-freddie-kitchens-as-head-coach
That actually explains nothing....other than that Freddie was not on Dorsey's list of potential HC candidates over a year before he got the job. All that explains is that "so and so was not right for us going forward into the future" and that they felt that Kitchens "was right for us going forward in the future"....otherwise it tells us fuck all.....on why Ferd was hired or why the others were not. "Not right going forward in the future" is not an explanation, but an excuse.
I am sure that Dorsey didn't want to reveal the discussions on each candidate....and I am sure he may have fibbed on a few of them. "Was Bruce Arians age a factor"? Dorsey says no, but he may have been thinking: Godamn right it is....we don't want a 66 year old guy in here running this team" "Was Gregg Williams temperament a factor"...."no it was not, being the verbal response given....but "you're goddamn right its a factor, may have been the truth."
Neither Dorsey....nor any other GM/owner/whatever is ever going to tell the honest truth about why they chose X and said "Adios" to Y.
That actually explains nothing....other than that Freddie was not on Dorsey's list of potential HC candidates over a year before he got the job. All that explains is that "so and so was not right for us going forward into the future" and that they felt that Kitchens "was right for us going forward in the future"....otherwise it tells us fuck all.....on why Ferd was hired or why the others were not. "Not right going forward in the future" is not an explanation, but an excuse.
I am sure that Dorsey didn't want to reveal the discussions on each candidate....and I am sure he may have fibbed on a few of them. "Was Bruce Arians age a factor"? Dorsey says no, but he may have been thinking: Godamn right it is....we don't want a 66 year old guy in here running this team" "Was Gregg Williams temperament a factor"...."no it was not, being the verbal response given....but "you're goddamn right its a factor, may have been the truth."
Neither Dorsey....nor any other GM/owner/whatever is ever going to tell the honest truth about why they chose X and said "Adios" to Y.
guess you are right...remember the manziel choice....the rumor was the gm did not want him but hasshit forced the issue...he wanted manziel and it was reported to have happened that way by many analysts/media folks...but like you say gip....no one ever comes out to own up to the mistakes because they don't want to look bad.....
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All I know is that I despise Freddie kitchens in every way possible. From him being a fat slob to being a moron hillbilly. He can't do anything right and I struggle to think of a single thing he's done well at all. I just can't stand the guy whatsoever. I don't think I've ever soured on a coach quite this quickly.
On a side note I just watched a special on HBO called Belichick and Saban: The art of coaching. To watch both of those legendary coaches wearing browns gear and now we have Freddie f'n kitchens.
Christ.
This shit ain't nothing to me, man. -
Nick Saban was the worst hire. He was aweful at Mia. And then he lied and quit
Nick Saban is a POS!.. I hate the asshole!
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Nick Saban was the worst hire. He was aweful at Mia. And then he lied and quit
Nick Saban is a POS!.. I hate the asshole!
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The End.. those were Dorsey's quotes or quote what you believe..
Yes, They were Dorsey's quotes...and as I said....they revealed absofuckinglutely nothing about why Ferd was chosen and others were not.
"we thought it best for the team going to the future". WTF is that supposed to mean? Its like a coach saying "we thought X QB gave us the best chance to win the game". If there were truth, then the HC would say "our starting QB, Joe Blow, was sucking swamp water". At least Tomlin admitted about Rudolph that he didn'nt think this duck guy "would get us killed". Dorsey didn't want to say "I didn't want to have to deal with Gregg Williams and his personality any more" Or "I think Arians is over the hill and he has had heart issues, and I know that the Cleveland Browns HC job is not for a guy with a weak heart".....nor did he .....or the other Green Bay crowd on this team want to admit "we dealt with McCarthy in Green Bay...and fuck him, we don't want his ass here". They would not admit "Freddie is so inexperienced that we know that he will have no choice but to follow our instructions on how to run this team"."It is best for the team going forward"......a horseshit cliche is there ever was one.
absofuckinglutely
lol, I had to look that one up.
Dorsey sometimes tells you what he thinks (when asked if the Hunt signing made Duke expendable, his answer was, Not yet. - that was a BAD answer.....shouldn't have been said)
The executives are supposed to give the 'party line' answer....an answer to NOT give away trade secrets, or piss anyone off...many times, not addressing the question at all with their answer. Or as we like to say, 'Coach Speak'.
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I've been a Freddie supporter.....but you guys are beating me down to submission. I like his attacking offensive minded style. But I don't like reckless 4th down calls. I don't like losing to the Steelers, so when he punished the whole team and all of us by making Randall sit in the corner at home, that pissed me off. (I know some of you are happy with that trade-off) And then wearing that stupid T-shirt in public is just plain dumb. You're the HC of an NFL football team. Not the local bowling league captain. And all season long he's 'not cared' what Baker has said into the microphone....until now that he threw the team medics under the bus. ------ But I like his attacking offensive minded style.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
All I know is that I despise Freddie kitchens in every way possible. From him being a fat slob to being a moron hillbilly. He can't do anything right and I struggle to think of a single thing he's done well at all. I just can't stand the guy whatsoever. I don't think I've ever soured on a coach quite this quickly.
On a side note I just watched a special on HBO called Belichick and Saban: The art of coaching. To watch both of those legendary coaches wearing browns gear and now we have Freddie f'n kitchens.
Christ.
All I know is that I despise Freddie kitchens in every way possible. From him being a fat slob to being a moron hillbilly. He can't do anything right and I struggle to think of a single thing he's done well at all. I just can't stand the guy whatsoever. I don't think I've ever soured on a coach quite this quickly.
On a side note I just watched a special on HBO called Belichick and Saban: The art of coaching. To watch both of those legendary coaches wearing browns gear and now we have Freddie f'n kitchens.
Christ.
Tell us how you really feel.
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absofuckinglutely
lol, I had to look that one up.
Dorsey sometimes tells you what he thinks (when asked if the Hunt signing made Duke expendable, his answer was, Not yet. - that was a BAD answer.....shouldn't have been said)
The executives are supposed to give the 'party line' answer....an answer to NOT give away trade secrets, or piss anyone off...many times, not addressing the question at all with their answer. Or as we like to say, 'Coach Speak'.
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I've been a Freddie supporter.....but you guys are beating me down to submission. I like his attacking offensive minded style. But I don't like reckless 4th down calls. I don't like losing to the Steelers, so when he punished the whole team and all of us by making Randall sit in the corner at home, that pissed me off. (I know some of you are happy with that trade-off) And then wearing that stupid T-shirt in public is just plain dumb. You're the HC of an NFL football team. Not the local bowling league captain. And all season long he's 'not cared' what Baker has said into the microphone....until now that he threw the team medics under the bus. ------ But I like his attacking offensive minded style.
lol, I had to look that one up.
It is a cousin to posifuckingtively.
Dorsey sometimes tells you what he thinks (when asked if the Hunt signing made Duke expendable, his answer was, Not yet. - that was a BAD answer.....shouldn't have been said)....but..it WAS a truthful answer. A rarity.
The executives are supposed to give the 'party line' answer....an answer to NOT give away trade secrets, or piss anyone off...many times, not addressing the question at all with their answer. Or as we like to say, 'Coach Speak'.
Yes....and that is what I said about Dorsey's answers to the hiring of Kitchens....that his answered contained many words without saying a thing....yet Gumby seems to be giving me shit about that....as if I was saying something horrible about Dorsey. No...I am just acknowledging that it is the same old horse hockey (courtesy of Colonel Potter)
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I've been a Freddie supporter.....but you guys are beating me down to submission. I like his attacking offensive minded style. But I don't like reckless 4th down calls. I don't like losing to the Steelers, so when he punished the whole team and all of us by making Randall sit in the corner at home, that pissed me off. (I know some of you are happy with that trade-off) And then wearing that stupid T-shirt in public is just plain dumb. You're the HC of an NFL football team. Not the local bowling league captain. And all season long he's 'not cared' what Baker has said into the microphone....until now that he threw the team medics under the bus. ------ But I like his attacking offensive minded style.
His red zone offense at times has been sophomoric.....as in a sophomore in high school could sometimes design plays and an offense better.
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lol, I had to look that one up.
It is a cousin to posifuckingtively.
Dorsey sometimes tells you what he thinks (when asked if the Hunt signing made Duke expendable, his answer was, Not yet. - that was a BAD answer.....shouldn't have been said)....but..it WAS a truthful answer. A rarity.
The executives are supposed to give the 'party line' answer....an answer to NOT give away trade secrets, or piss anyone off...many times, not addressing the question at all with their answer. Or as we like to say, 'Coach Speak'.
Yes....and that is what I said about Dorsey's answers to the hiring of Kitchens....that his answered contained many words without saying a thing....yet Gumby seems to be giving me shit about that....as if I was saying something horrible about Dorsey. No...I am just acknowledging that it is the same old horse hockey (courtesy of Colonel Potter)
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I've been a Freddie supporter.....but you guys are beating me down to submission. I like his attacking offensive minded style. But I don't like reckless 4th down calls. I don't like losing to the Steelers, so when he punished the whole team and all of us by making Randall sit in the corner at home, that pissed me off. (I know some of you are happy with that trade-off) And then wearing that stupid T-shirt in public is just plain dumb. You're the HC of an NFL football team. Not the local bowling league captain. And all season long he's 'not cared' what Baker has said into the microphone....until now that he threw the team medics under the bus. ------ But I like his attacking offensive minded style.
His red zone offense at times has been sophomoric.....as in a sophomore in high school could sometimes design plays and an offense better.
I agree with your last sentence.. He tends to get too cute...
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@gumby73 said:
Horse Hockey Gip? I thought nothing to your posting, but to respond to this^^...1) I simply get home from work & open the new topics first 2) I kept that article, I posted in my laptop as a quick reference as to how & whom's we got to Freddie..it was a easy load to respond to above of whom's.. 3) if ya think that's GM speak? Fine! that your opinion.. But christ, quit playing Board judge
If you DON"T think that was just "GM speak"....then your insight into the situation was lacking.
But.....IF YOU are satisfied with just "It was the right choice for us going forward in the future".....then I guess that works for you. Ignorance is Bliss.
I am not saying that Dorsey owes us an explanation on the choices he makes. I am just saying that I am cognizant that we are not and never would be given the full, complete, honest story of how those decisions are made. I will just accept that in these situations, spewing cliches is the placebo we must all swallow.
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It was pretty clear to me after watching the Seattle game that Freddie was not ready to manage a game against a strong NFL opponent.
Bad game management.. I think he learned from that game, hopefully.Also, I’m starting to feel that Kitchens’ play-calling ideologies require a strong offensive line.
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Freddie's hire was completely Dorsey's. At the time Tony Gross noted that at the inaugural press conference, the Haslams were present but didn't utter a word signifiying that he was Dorsey's hire successful or not. Having said that, the owner should have the final say on the person he'd like to lead 53 men on and off the field. Prior to this Freddie had never demonstrated that and I don't even know if he'd shown close attention to detail (Chubb didn't know to switch the football to his sideline arm when making long runs after a year under Freddie's RB coaching). Very telling that Bruce Arians promoted Byron Leftwich over him for OC in Arizona.
.. but still has the Chubb R2 abilities
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