Ratbirds @ Browns Official Gameday thread
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The reason is extremely simple. Football is the biggest momentum sport in the world, nothing even comes close. When you kick the extra point, it’s a one score game with 7 minutes left.
the defense comes out with a pep. The crowd gets into it. An offense, even as good as Baltimore, has that thought in the back of their mind every time they call a play. It’s as simple of a coaching decision there is to make really. I’m not trying to sound harsh to you but again, no competent coach ever takes the early 2 pt attempt. Like ever.
Also you're acting as if the two point automatically fails because they tried it on the first td. You still get all those advantages and more if two point is successful. Let's not forget pats arent automatic now either. It's the reason we were down 15 in the first place. Seibert is right around 90% on pats
Also you're acting as if the two point automatically fails because they tried it on the first td. You still get all those advantages and more if two point is successful. Let's not forget pats arent automatic now either.
Comparing situations in college football and the nfl is apples to oranges. Steve spurrier is honestly IMO one of the most overrated coaches in college football history too, if I’m being honest. Also, the man hasn’t coached in 20 or more years.
look, I’m not going to change your mind but there’s a reason obj and several other players were barking at Freddie. I’d bet my literal house though what I’m saying would be the sentiment of the overwhelming majority of nfl head coaches
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yeah.......he's going to be adjusted out of cleveland.....how bout dat....probably with a bunch of other coaches......another rebuild on da way folks...
hopefully Dorsey has been doing some back channel checks on a new coach so he can make a decision before the haslems have time to meddle
hopefully Dorsey has been doing some back channel checks on a new coach so he can make a decision before the haslems have time to meddle
GMs are rarely given a second chance to hire a coach when the first hire was a failure and in this case a resounding failure. Jimmy's going to go with DePodesta's recommendation this time so let's see how Dorsey reacts to that.
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Freddie not taking the extra point there should be shown on repeat if he gets canned. The talent on this team is so evident, but coaching just brings it down.
no excuse.
edit: OBJ knows it too.
First obj was not talking about going for two or kicking it lol.
Don't just listen to Romo and nantz. If you think about it going for two there makes sense. You need a two point conversion regardless. If you don't get it on either attempt it means you need an extra possession. When would you rather have that information? With 8 minutes left so you can press a little bit more and go no huddle to make sure your have plenty of time for that 3rd possession or after the hypothetical second td where you weren't in a big rush because you don't want the opposing team to have much time let's say less than 2 minutes. You are not more likely to get it on the 2nd hypothetical td than the first. Literally it's the same odds either way. The only difference is one way (going for it after 1st) you get info sooner and the sooner you know what you need there better off you are.
Don't just listen to Romo and nantz. If you think about it going for two there makes sense. You need a two point conversion regardless. If you don't get it on either attempt it means you need an extra possession. When would you rather have that information? With 8 minutes left so you can press a little bit more and go no huddle to make sure your have plenty of time for that 3rd possession or after the hypothetical second td where you weren't in a big rush because you don't want the opposing team to have much time let's say less than 2 minutes. You are not more likely to get it on the 2nd hypothetical td than the first. Literally it's the same odds either way. The only difference is one way (going for it after 1st) you get info sooner and the sooner you know what you need there better off you are.
Isn't that knowledge also useful to the opponent?
Seems to me that they'd be more conservative if up 8 rather than up 7... and that's exactly what you'd want.
Of course being up 9 they'd be more conservative yet...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Don't just listen to Romo and nantz. If you think about it going for two there makes sense. You need a two point conversion regardless. If you don't get it on either attempt it means you need an extra possession. When would you rather have that information? With 8 minutes left so you can press a little bit more and go no huddle to make sure your have plenty of time for that 3rd possession or after the hypothetical second td where you weren't in a big rush because you don't want the opposing team to have much time let's say less than 2 minutes. You are not more likely to get it on the 2nd hypothetical td than the first. Literally it's the same odds either way. The only difference is one way (going for it after 1st) you get info sooner and the sooner you know what you need there better off you are.
Isn't that knowledge also useful to the opponent?
Seems to me that they'd be more conservative if up 8 rather than up 7... and that's exactly what you'd want.
Of course being up 9 they'd be more conservative yet...
Isn't that knowledge also useful to the opponent?
Seems to me that they'd be more conservative if up 8 rather than up 7... and that's exactly what you'd want.
Of course being up 9 they'd be more conservative yet...
Yeah it is useful to the opponent also. I don't think they'd be any more conservative 7 vs 8 points up but definitely more so up 9. I guess I'm just of the ilk I want as much information possible as soon as possible. To me it's like when a team knows they need two scores and will kick a field goal on an earlier down when they're down two scores with less than a minute to play because of that information. Or even a 4th and 7 plus in field goal range. You go ahead and kick it and go for your td later.
538 summed up my opinion on it nicely
"When down 9 points late-ish, there’s a solid case that you should go for 2, because being down 8, you would have to go for 2 to draw even eventually anyway, and it’s better to know whether you converted your attempt earlier so you can make tactical adjustments."
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Just some of my dumb opinions:
If Freddie refuses to give up all playcalling, he should go. Maybe fire the OC. Seriously, Freddie. No mas.
The 3rd and one with about 2 minutes left in the first half, and he runs wide to the left with a LT that still holds and still moves/loses the snap count, and can't handle the blocking on that play. And again, they seemed to know what the play was.
The Browns need safety help. As in, two new starters.
The offensive line folded, and the defense gave up. The ratbuzzards seemed to have attacked the safeties and stayed away from Wilson and Schobert as much as possible. That's just a guess on my part.
After the first quarter, I thought we'd see more throws to Hunt and Chubb out of the backfield. Apparently, the oline can't block long enough to run those plays....
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any body going to the bengals game next week....phhhhhweeeeee.....heh heh heh.....what a clusterfuck of a team.....you can watch mixon rush for around 200 yds...
Yeah, I'm going with one of my college pals and his daughters. Only an hour to Paul Brown from my house- a far shorter drive than uup to Cleveland. And looking forward to a great tailgate with the Cinci Browns Backsers.
half time...it was over before it started.....this garbage pit.....fucking pour some gas on it and light the match...
Why don't you just start rooting for another team? You're just like those losers who pile on after every loss over on Cleveland.com. Just not happy unless we not only win, but win big- and then- you'd still have something to bitch about. Baker sucks, Freddie sucks, the defense sucks, suck, suck, suck........
And if the Browns lose to the Bengals in a game that's only going to determine draft position for the Browns (the Bengals have officially won the #1 pick Burrow Bowl) I'm sure you'll be more than delighted that Fred is Dead.
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PS just checking- and it's almost time to give NIck Chubb props for taking the league rushing title. After today- both Henry and McCaffery ( the only ones with a shot to catch him) will have to out gain Nick by almost 100 yards this coming Sunday to catch him.
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At this point do we need to go 3-5 next season and fire Freddie.
just take care of it now
At this point do we need to go 3-5 next season and fire Freddie.
just take care of it now
Don't make the same mistake we did with Jackson.....bring him back, having to fire him halfway, putting an interim coach in charge. The bring in someone else for the following year. Just cut the cord now (after the next game, that is).
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PS just checking- and it's almost time to give NIck Chubb props for taking the league rushing title. After today- both Henry and McCaffery ( the only ones with a shot to catch him) will have to out gain Nick by almost 100 yards this coming Sunday to catch him.
PS just checking- and it's almost time to give NIck Chubb props for taking the league rushing title. After today- both Henry and McCaffery ( the only ones with a shot to catch him) will have to out gain Nick by almost 100 yards this coming Sunday to catch him.
The NFL's leading rusher and we can't even go 8-8? I wonder what the winning % is for teams with the leading rusher over say the last 20 years? It's gotta be high.
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At this point do we need to go 3-5 next season and fire Freddie.
just take care of it now
Don't make the same mistake we did with Jackson.....bring him back, having to fire him halfway, putting an interim coach in charge. The bring in someone else for the following year. Just cut the cord now (after the next game, that is).
Don't make the same mistake we did with Jackson.....bring him back, having to fire him halfway, putting an interim coach in charge. The bring in someone else for the following year. Just cut the cord now (after the next game, that is).
I don't know Gipper- I suppose you should give Freddie the dignity of finishing out the season- but as far as I"m concerned, Dean Man walking. Black Monday 8 days away....
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Don't make the same mistake we did with Jackson.....bring him back, having to fire him halfway, putting an interim coach in charge. The bring in someone else for the following year. Just cut the cord now (after the next game, that is).
I don't know Gipper- I suppose you should give Freddie the dignity of finishing out the season- but as far as I"m concerned, Dean Man walking. Black Monday 8 days away....
I don't know Gipper- I suppose you should give Freddie the dignity of finishing out the season- but as far as I"m concerned, Dean Man walking.
No, I said let him finish the season: "after the next game" I said.
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No, I said let him finish the season: "after the next game" I said.
I know what you said Gip... Some wouldn't even want him to coach another game.... A Bungle loss with a dispirited showing will seal the deal....
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Also you're acting as if the two point automatically fails because they tried it on the first td. You still get all those advantages and more if two point is successful. Let's not forget pats arent automatic now either.
Comparing situations in college football and the nfl is apples to oranges. Steve spurrier is honestly IMO one of the most overrated coaches in college football history too, if I’m being honest. Also, the man hasn’t coached in 20 or more years.
look, I’m not going to change your mind but there’s a reason obj and several other players were barking at Freddie. I’d bet my literal house though what I’m saying would be the sentiment of the overwhelming majority of nfl head coaches
Comparing situations in college football and the nfl is apples to oranges.
I can agree to disagree but I wanted to give you an example since you used the momentum example and address this quoted part.
Comparing talent and some situations even is apple's to oranges but comparing about wanting to know what you need to know to win or tie a game is no matter the level of football.
My example. Say in today's game after failing instead of our defense folding like a cheap suit we force a 3 and out and get the ball back with about 6 minutes remaining. We are rushing because we know we need two scores having already attempted our two point conversion. We are facing a 4th down after 3 straight incomplete passes. So around 5:30 seconds left on the clock. We would punt down 8 with 3 timeouts however knowing we need a 2nd score we go for it in this situation. Or we get down to goal to go with 3:30 left (because we're in a hurry up knowing we need 2 scores) and and get a penalty or sack making it 4th and goal from the 17. We kick the field goal and kick away with full complement of timeouts where as if were down 8 we are are running clock being in striking distance not wanting to give them the ball back with much time and get in that situation with less than 2 minutes to go. We are attempting to pick up 17 for a td and even if we pick it up we call the same 2 point play. You're calling your best two point play regardless of when you attempt it. Unless Baker is more accurate down 2 points than down 9 points the result is the same.
Basically if i miss the two point conversion i want as much time on the clock as possible for my two possessions. If i convert it doesn't matter whether i convert on the first or 2nd td with the exception that I could theoretically go for the win on the 2nd td if I converted on the first.
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Comparing situations in college football and the nfl is apples to oranges.
I can agree to disagree but I wanted to give you an example since you used the momentum example and address this quoted part.
Comparing talent and some situations even is apple's to oranges but comparing about wanting to know what you need to know to win or tie a game is no matter the level of football.
My example. Say in today's game after failing instead of our defense folding like a cheap suit we force a 3 and out and get the ball back with about 6 minutes remaining. We are rushing because we know we need two scores having already attempted our two point conversion. We are facing a 4th down after 3 straight incomplete passes. So around 5:30 seconds left on the clock. We would punt down 8 with 3 timeouts however knowing we need a 2nd score we go for it in this situation. Or we get down to goal to go with 3:30 left (because we're in a hurry up knowing we need 2 scores) and and get a penalty or sack making it 4th and goal from the 17. We kick the field goal and kick away with full complement of timeouts where as if were down 8 we are are running clock being in striking distance not wanting to give them the ball back with much time and get in that situation with less than 2 minutes to go. We are attempting to pick up 17 for a td and even if we pick it up we call the same 2 point play. You're calling your best two point play regardless of when you attempt it. Unless Baker is more accurate down 2 points than down 9 points the result is the same.
Basically if i miss the two point conversion i want as much time on the clock as possible for my two possessions. If i convert it doesn't matter whether i convert on the first or 2nd td with the exception that I could theoretically go for the win on the 2nd td if I converted on the first.
I can agree to disagree but I wanted to give you an example since you used the momentum example and address this quoted part.
Comparing talent and some situations even is apple's to oranges but comparing about wanting to know what you need to know to win or tie a game is no matter the level of football.
My example. Say in today's game after failing instead of our defense folding like a cheap suit we force a 3 and out and get the ball back with about 6 minutes remaining. We are rushing because we know we need two scores having already attempted our two point conversion. We are facing a 4th down after 3 straight incomplete passes. So around 5:30 seconds left on the clock. We would punt down 8 with 3 timeouts however knowing we need a 2nd score we go for it in this situation. Or we get down to goal to go with 3:30 left (because we're in a hurry up knowing we need 2 scores) and and get a penalty or sack making it 4th and goal from the 17. We kick the field goal and kick away with full complement of timeouts where as if were down 8 we are are running clock being in striking distance not wanting to give them the ball back with much time and get in that situation with less than 2 minutes to go. We are attempting to pick up 17 for a td and even if we pick it up we call the same 2 point play. You're calling your best two point play regardless of when you attempt it. Unless Baker is more accurate down 2 points than down 9 points the result is the same.
Basically if i miss the two point conversion i want as much time on the clock as possible for my two possessions. If i convert it doesn't matter whether i convert on the first or 2nd td with the exception that I could theoretically go for the win on the 2nd td if I converted on the first.
I agree with both yours and jrb's views, and can easily side with either of you for all the reasons you have both said. I probably would've kicked it myself, but I had zero issues with the idiot going for 2.
8 more days should be the end of the fat man.............. or else it's the beginning of the end of the 2020 season if it's not.
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at 5:40... exhibit 'B' why I NEED Wilks to be gone. Generally you don't want to make things as easy as possible on a young QB that is still working to develop as a passer.
First of all, don't get me wrong, it got the 5th man free but as we learned you kind of have to "corral" LJ. But this is a zero pressure with Chad Thomas "occupying" his blocker and playing a spy. The issue is all the space we allow on the rotation in a pretty poor attempt to disguise the coverage. Had this pressure been chipped or late, Lamar would have had an even easier throw and catch to Andrews. It's just hard for me to stomach how easily we let some of these receivers into the pattern over the course of this season.
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any body going to the bengals game next week....phhhhhweeeeee.....heh heh heh.....what a clusterfuck of a team.....you can watch mixon rush for around 200 yds...
Yeah, I'm going with one of my college pals and his daughters. Only an hour to Paul Brown from my house- a far shorter drive than uup to Cleveland. And looking forward to a great tailgate with the Cinci Browns Backsers.
half time...it was over before it started.....this garbage pit.....fucking pour some gas on it and light the match...
Why don't you just start rooting for another team? You're just like those losers who pile on after every loss over on Cleveland.com. Just not happy unless we not only win, but win big- and then- you'd still have something to bitch about. Baker sucks, Freddie sucks, the defense sucks, suck, suck, suck........
And if the Browns lose to the Bengals in a game that's only going to determine draft position for the Browns (the Bengals have officially won the #1 pick Burrow Bowl) I'm sure you'll be more than delighted that Fred is Dead.
Yeah, I'm going with one of my college pals and his daughters. Only an hour to Paul Brown from my house- a far shorter drive than uup to Cleveland. And looking forward to a great tailgate with the Cinci Browns Backsers.
Why don't you just start rooting for another team? You're just like those losers who pile on after every loss over on Cleveland.com. Just not happy unless we not only win, but win big- and then- you'd still have something to bitch about. Baker sucks, Freddie sucks, the defense sucks, suck, suck, suck........
And if the Browns lose to the Bengals in a game that's only going to determine draft position for the Browns (the Bengals have officially won the #1 pick Burrow Bowl) I'm sure you'll be more than delighted that Fred is Dead.
yip ,,,,everything is just fine in cleveland.......they don't suck...my bad....NOT........,..YOU MUST BE RELATED TO HASLEM......ONLY WAY I SEE IT...
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Yeah, I'm going with one of my college pals and his daughters. Only an hour to Paul Brown from my house- a far shorter drive than uup to Cleveland. And looking forward to a great tailgate with the Cinci Browns Backsers.
Why don't you just start rooting for another team? You're just like those losers who pile on after every loss over on Cleveland.com. Just not happy unless we not only win, but win big- and then- you'd still have something to bitch about. Baker sucks, Freddie sucks, the defense sucks, suck, suck, suck........
And if the Browns lose to the Bengals in a game that's only going to determine draft position for the Browns (the Bengals have officially won the #1 pick Burrow Bowl) I'm sure you'll be more than delighted that Fred is Dead.
yip ,,,,everything is just fine in cleveland.......they don't suck...my bad....NOT........,..YOU MUST BE RELATED TO HASLEM......ONLY WAY I SEE IT...
yip ,,,,everything is just fine in cleveland.......they don't suck...my bad....NOT........,..YOU MUST BE RELATED TO HASLEM......ONLY WAY I SEE IT...
Nobody cares how you see anything.
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No, I said let him finish the season: "after the next game" I said.
I know what you said Gip... Some wouldn't even want him to coach another game.... A Bungle loss with a dispirited showing will seal the deal....
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