Bold idea that would change the landscape of sports in Cleveland

[hoorta]

@dutch-oven said:

Have you ever been to Chicago? Milwaukee?

Two midwestern cities with a vibrant lakefront scene. Cleveland, on the other hand, has a ton of its downtown lakefront property wasted on a football stadium used a dozen times a year and an airport that almost no one benefits from. 

This isn't a newsflash that Cleveland has always squandered its greatest asset. 

Yes, I've been to Chicago a bunch of times- and stayed downtown a week for a convention. DUH!!!  And what's right on the lakefront in Chicago? Soldier Field.  Sorry, but comparing Chicago to Cleveland is more than a little unfair. 

And you didn't answer the question- what's your idea to put in place of the stadium? An Aquarium, Planetarium, or a Park like Chicago? Really????   Sounds like bellyaching just for the sake of bellyaching....  

[Dutch Oven]

@hoorta said:

Yes, I've been to Chicago a bunch of times- and stayed downtown a week for a convention. DUH!!!  And what's right on the lakefront in Chicago? Soldier Field.  Sorry, but comparing Chicago to Cleveland is more than a little unfair. 

And you didn't answer the question- what's your idea to put in place of the stadium? An Aquarium, Planetarium, or a Park like Chicago? Really????   

I'm sorry, Cleveland's lakefront is perfect the way it is.

I should have never debated the point with someone who would know so much about vibrant urban areas, since you do live in Dayton, Ohio. 

[D Bone]

For those that are a bit curious and have an open mind, round 8 of the 17 round Supercross series from the Cowboys' stadium is on live tonight. It's on NBCSN ( NBC Sports Network ) at 8:30pm EST/5:30pm PST.

The format tonight is different from the other races in the series and is really cool and would be a GREAT 1st race to watch as a complete newbie:

The "250 class" (called that because the engines are 250ccs of displacement ) is for the younger, future stars of the sport - Think NCAA Football

The "450 Class" (called that because the engines are 450ccs of displacement and are much faster ) is for the best riders on the planet - Think NFL

Both the 250s and 450s will each have 3 "Motos" or 3 "Main Events", each 10 laps long. Both classes will alternate races. The 250s will open the event and run their moto 1, then the 450s will run theirs. Then the 250s will run their moto 2, and so on until both classes have each ran their 3 motos and a winner is crowned in each class.

The "overall winner" in each class will be the rider who at the end of the night has the lowest point total when all 3 races are added together

Example: Say a rider wins the 1st moto, gets 3rd in the second moto and 2nd in the 3rd moto, that rider will have 6 points and could be the over all winner if 6pts is the lowest total on the night..... Even if another rider won 2 motos, but fell and finished 10th in the other moto for a total of 12pts..... EACH RACE IS HUGE!! AND WHY TONIGHT WOULD BE A GREAT 1ST RACE TO WATCH.

The riders will hit triple jumps that are 90' from peak to peak......... ( On a softball field, home plate to 2nd base across the diamond is 85' for reference.... Most here can't even make the throw across the diamond, much less jump a motorcycle across it 20' high and 50mph lap after lap )

Just give it a try even if you only watch the first motos of the 250s and 450s.............. just try it!!!

I did it professionally in '84 and can't even put into words the amount of fitness needed to control a 215lb dirt bike...... Far and away, the most fit dudes on the planet. It's also hard to find pants that fit when your balls are so fucking big. 

I know this is a big ask on this forum, but don't just be a snarky dick and not at least give it a try...... what else are you lazy slobs going to do on a Saturday night?? 

[Dutch Oven]

@d-bone said:

... what else are you lazy slobs going to do on a Saturday night?? 

Eating cheesecake and leaving a flower at the site of Baker's parking lot BJ (never forget!) behind the Cheesecake Factory up in Lyndhurst? ?

[Tour2ma]

For the record I thought DieHard's "reply" to Woody was an outrageous, name-calling attack.

[D Bone]

@dutch-oven said:

Eating cheesecake and leaving a flower at the site of Baker's parking lot BJ (never forget!) behind the Cheesecake Factory up in Lyndhurst? ?

Try it D

[Dutch Oven]

@d-bone said:

Try it D

Is it possible to do motocross in an arena, or do you have to have a bigger venue like a football stadium? 

[D Bone]

@dutch-oven said:

Is it possible to do motocross in an arena, or do you have to have a bigger venue like a football stadium? 

Yes sir, it was called Arencross. It is now defunct, but was ran for a decade or so in places like Staples Center. It was a series for the guys who weren't fast enough to race Supercross, but were still some very fast dudes....... Think the XFL?? 

I will also say that not counting real shit like wars, police work, firemen running into burning buildings, there is no scarier place on earth than the start line and the 1st turn in supercross racing........... watch tonight and you'll instantly see what I mean.

I threw up more than once on the start line as a 16-17yr old professional in '84 while racing against 20-25yr old men.  

[Tour2ma]

@d-bone said:

a 16-17yr old professional

Prodigy much?

HS bud of mine got into motorcross big time after graduation and did pretty well until he screwed up a knee in one of those "first turns".

Sold his Husqvarna and Bultaco shortly thereafter.

[The Gipper]

@d-bone said:

Oh yea, it's just unrealistic to do it in frozen cities. The SX season starts the 1st Saturday in Jan and runs through the 1st week in May....... Hardly great weather for fans to suffer through in cold weather cites with no lid.  

Just do it in the fucking summer it’s not a winter sport where you need snow or ice 

[D Bone]

@tour2ma said:

Prodigy much?

HS bud of mine got into motorcross big time after graduation and did pretty well until he screwed up a knee in one of those "first turns".

Sold his Husqvarna and Bultaco shortly thereafter.

So you know a bit then T! Man, Bultaco!! My dad had one when I was 7 and he got me my 1st Suzuki dirt bike.... yea, a spoiled kid for sure. 

I progressed really quickly from 7-16. My brother was 7yrs older than me and was really fast, so always trying to keep up with him was the sole reason for it. There was no support class in '84 (the 250cc future star class I spoke of earlier) there was only the elite class and it was stacked with factory riders (the best on the planet) and they were men, not boys like me.

Once I turned pro, I went from being the fastest amateur at the track and a big shot, to just another SoCal dude who wasn't nearly fast enough and all in the blink of an eye. I raced at Jack Murphy stadium in San Diego, Anaheim Stadium and the Coliseum in '84 and never even came close to making the main event (the usual Supercross format, not like tonight's race). I was riding as fast as I could ever see myself going, almost falling multiple times per lap and was generally scared shitless and it was only good enough to fight for 18th out of 25 riders in the Last Chance Qualifier. 

I had multiple major injuries throughout my riding days, but the worst ones were in '84 with the final straw being a closed head injury. I'll watch the race tonight differently from most and still get butterflies at each gate drop, even though I'm safely on my couch.

I love this sport more than any other, and yes football is not even close, but hate what it did to my now 52yr old body, and if I could go back in time, I would tell my dad to never, ever let me ride a dirt bike.

^ Shit, if that doesn't get at least one of you to watch tonight, I don't know what will!! 

[D Bone]

@the-gipper said:

Just do it in the fucking summer it’s not a winter sport where you need snow or ice 

Supercross is winter and spring, then the outdoor motocross season starts. These dudes race all year long with only 3 months off. They race in Detroit and Minn with their lids..... They just won't put the fans in an outside stadium in the frozen night time. 

SX is in stadiums, while MotoX is on long, natural tracks where they race 2 motos each 45min long plus 2 laps after the time limit..... shit that will end you on a summer day, no matter how fit you are. 

[hoorta]

@dutch-oven said:

I'm sorry, Cleveland's lakefront is perfect the way it is.

I should have never debated the point with someone who would know so much about vibrant urban areas, since you do live in Dayton, Ohio. 

Don't be sarcastic. You still didn't answer my question.  FWIW, Chicago's population is 2.7 million . Cleveland's is 385,000- and you think we can somehow compete with skyscraper city Downtown Chicago? Sorry, Severance Hall and University Circle aren't  on the Lakefront- but the Rock & Roll HOF is, ditto the Great Lakes Science center. You probably know if you've been to downtown Cleveland lately- all the partying (except on Browns gameday- that's over on the west side around West 9th and the lots) is up at East 4th around Gateway. I don't see any practical way of eliminating the shipping docks, Coast Guard Station, the Marinas and Burke. The Coast Guard is a necessity, and the others are all revenue producers. Sorry it's not culturally up to your standards. 

Regarding Dayton- do a little research before you speak about "vibrant". I could come on up to Canal Fulton to take a canal boat ride. Been through there on the bike path.    With a city population of 140,000 Downtown Dayton is booming on a relative level. There's been over a 1\2 billion of development downtown with more coming, and condos are getting sold as fast as developers can build them. https://www.daytondailynews.com/business/economy/see-where-millions-have-been-spent-improve-downtown-dayton/hGhhqD6U2v0w5AoSg0icdL/

[mjp28]

@dutch-oven said:

Have you ever been to Chicago? Milwaukee?

Two midwestern cities with a vibrant lakefront scene. Cleveland, on the other hand, has a ton of its downtown lakefront property wasted on a football stadium used a dozen times a year and an airport that almost no one benefits from. 

This isn't a newsflash that Cleveland has always squandered its greatest asset. 

I was just talking to a friend yesterday who knows people up there about Lake Erie's shoreline around Geneva and other summer spots that are getting battered by the winter storms and destroying the beaches and shorelines.   One big reason no ice on the lake this year to slow the waves.

The federal government has already appropriated funds for the great lakes but this will require a lot of more funds.

Development of Cleveland's lake front should be as important as or go hand and hand with the rock HOF stadiums and other venues........but of course it comes the money.

[D Bone]

This is the last post on my attempt to get you guys/gals to turn on NBCSN at 8:30EST. I will monitor this thread throughout the race in case anyone gives it a try and has any questions regarding the race. 

2-1/2hrs until the greatest show on earth begins, and I'll just leave these here..................

[The Gipper]

@d-bone said:

Supercross is winter and spring, then the outdoor motocross season starts. These dudes race all year long with only 3 months off. They race in Detroit and Minn with their lids..... They just won't put the fans in an outside stadium in the frozen night time. 

SX is in stadiums, while MotoX is on long, natural tracks where they race 2 motos each 45min long plus 2 laps after the time limit..... shit that will end you on a summer day, no matter how fit you are. 

Don't know why one would be in winter/spring and one is summer. Aren't they basically the same thing. Guys on bikes racing over heaps of dirt. Dirt bike racing.  Dune buggy racing...whatever. 

The only things like that I like are the ones where the guys do it on snowboards and on ice skates.

[Ibleedbrown]

Not being a native Clevelander or anyone who visits with any regularity l’m not sure l have much to add to this, but l’ll try.

I have some issues with big crowds. Not like anxiety or anything, but it’s a hassle moving through a sea of people and it’s something l consider when attending an event. I’m generally all for anything that “beats people away”, and if cold weather wards off a few ninnies then it’s less people to wade through. Also, a dome might give the “feel” that it’s more packed then what it is. 

I also think it’s a good idea to spruce up the Lakefront, like Dutch suggested. Here in Cincy we have “the Banks project” where they’ve been doing just that along the Ohio river. It’s been years in the making, but l gotta say it is quite nice and definitely livens things up between the stadiums.

A devil’s advocate perspective to that is the Ohio river is certainly no Lake Erie. It’ll flood from time to time, but certainly less of the driving winds and bitter cold. So basically, the same elements that make regular repairs to the Browns stadium is going to affect anything you build on the lakefront, so it will have to be maintained with similar frequency.

[The Gipper]

Well....we have our own River which is developed all over the place. That is where a lot of the water development takes place:  In the Flats.

[The Gipper]

[D Bone]

@the-gipper said:

Don't know why one would be in winter/spring and one is summer. Aren't they basically the same thing. Guys on bikes racing over heaps of dirt.

No.

Supercross is held in football stadiums with 100% man made tracks. The tracks are much shorter with more laps making up a race. Lap times are around 2 minutes per lap. The tracks have way more jumps and "rhythm/flow", as well as slower overall top end speeds due to the shorter straight a-ways. All seats in the stadium are great ones. 

Motocross is held on outdoor tracks that are 70% natural terrain and 30% man made jumps and whoops (whoops = huge section of 4' tall bumps, like moguls in snow skiing). The track is much, much longer with lap times around 6 minutes per lap. The tracks have much longer and rougher straight a-ways that result in much higher top end speeds than what you'll see tonight. Fans are sprawled out all over a 200-300 acre facility.

Supercross is much more fan friendly and is considered a spectacle of the greatest riders on the planet. 

Motocross is the gritty Godfather of the sport and generally preferred to Supercross by us guys that have actually done it.... although I love both. 

Yes, it's the same guys on the same bikes doing both disciplines, but much like in NASCAR, it's the difference between a 2.5 mile super speedway like Daytona, and a 15 turn road course like Sonoma..... Same drivers, same cars, yet completely and totally different. 

Hope this helps, and hope you give it a fair shot in a couple hours!