Bold idea that would change the landscape of sports in Cleveland
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Is it possible to do motocross in an arena, or do you have to have a bigger venue like a football stadium?
Yes sir, it was called Arencross. It is now defunct, but was ran for a decade or so in places like Staples Center. It was a series for the guys who weren't fast enough to race Supercross, but were still some very fast dudes....... Think the XFL??
I will also say that not counting real shit like wars, police work, firemen running into burning buildings, there is no scarier place on earth than the start line and the 1st turn in supercross racing........... watch tonight and you'll instantly see what I mean.
I threw up more than once on the start line as a 16-17yr old professional in '84 while racing against 20-25yr old men.
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Is it possible to do motocross in an arena, or do you have to have a bigger venue like a football stadium?
Yes sir, it was called Arencross. It is now defunct, but was ran for a decade or so in places like Staples Center. It was a series for the guys who weren't fast enough to race Supercross, but were still some very fast dudes....... Think the XFL??
I will also say that not counting real shit like wars, police work, firemen running into burning buildings, there is no scarier place on earth than the start line and the 1st turn in supercross racing........... watch tonight and you'll instantly see what I mean.
I threw up more than once on the start line as a 16-17yr old professional in '84 while racing against 20-25yr old men.
a 16-17yr old professional
Prodigy much?
HS bud of mine got into motorcross big time after graduation and did pretty well until he screwed up a knee in one of those "first turns".
Sold his Husqvarna and Bultaco shortly thereafter.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Can’t they do that outdoors
Oh yea, it's just unrealistic to do it in frozen cities. The SX season starts the 1st Saturday in Jan and runs through the 1st week in May....... Hardly great weather for fans to suffer through in cold weather cites with no lid.
Oh yea, it's just unrealistic to do it in frozen cities. The SX season starts the 1st Saturday in Jan and runs through the 1st week in May....... Hardly great weather for fans to suffer through in cold weather cites with no lid.
Just do it in the fucking summer it’s not a winter sport where you need snow or ice
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Prodigy much?
HS bud of mine got into motorcross big time after graduation and did pretty well until he screwed up a knee in one of those "first turns".
Sold his Husqvarna and Bultaco shortly thereafter.
So you know a bit then T! Man, Bultaco!! My dad had one when I was 7 and he got me my 1st Suzuki dirt bike.... yea, a spoiled kid for sure.
I progressed really quickly from 7-16. My brother was 7yrs older than me and was really fast, so always trying to keep up with him was the sole reason for it. There was no support class in '84 (the 250cc future star class I spoke of earlier) there was only the elite class and it was stacked with factory riders (the best on the planet) and they were men, not boys like me.
Once I turned pro, I went from being the fastest amateur at the track and a big shot, to just another SoCal dude who wasn't nearly fast enough and all in the blink of an eye. I raced at Jack Murphy stadium in San Diego, Anaheim Stadium and the Coliseum in '84 and never even came close to making the main event (the usual Supercross format, not like tonight's race). I was riding as fast as I could ever see myself going, almost falling multiple times per lap and was generally scared shitless and it was only good enough to fight for 18th out of 25 riders in the Last Chance Qualifier.
I had multiple major injuries throughout my riding days, but the worst ones were in '84 with the final straw being a closed head injury. I'll watch the race tonight differently from most and still get butterflies at each gate drop, even though I'm safely on my couch.
I love this sport more than any other, and yes football is not even close, but hate what it did to my now 52yr old body, and if I could go back in time, I would tell my dad to never, ever let me ride a dirt bike.
^ Shit, if that doesn't get at least one of you to watch tonight, I don't know what will!!
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Oh yea, it's just unrealistic to do it in frozen cities. The SX season starts the 1st Saturday in Jan and runs through the 1st week in May....... Hardly great weather for fans to suffer through in cold weather cites with no lid.
Just do it in the fucking summer it’s not a winter sport where you need snow or ice
Just do it in the fucking summer it’s not a winter sport where you need snow or ice
Supercross is winter and spring, then the outdoor motocross season starts. These dudes race all year long with only 3 months off. They race in Detroit and Minn with their lids..... They just won't put the fans in an outside stadium in the frozen night time.
SX is in stadiums, while MotoX is on long, natural tracks where they race 2 motos each 45min long plus 2 laps after the time limit..... shit that will end you on a summer day, no matter how fit you are.
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Yes, I've been to Chicago a bunch of times- and stayed downtown a week for a convention. DUH!!! And what's right on the lakefront in Chicago? Soldier Field. Sorry, but comparing Chicago to Cleveland is more than a little unfair.
And you didn't answer the question- what's your idea to put in place of the stadium? An Aquarium, Planetarium, or a Park like Chicago? Really????
I'm sorry, Cleveland's lakefront is perfect the way it is.
I should have never debated the point with someone who would know so much about vibrant urban areas, since you do live in Dayton, Ohio.
I'm sorry, Cleveland's lakefront is perfect the way it is.
I should have never debated the point with someone who would know so much about vibrant urban areas, since you do live in Dayton, Ohio.
Don't be sarcastic. You still didn't answer my question.
FWIW, Chicago's population is 2.7 million . Cleveland's is 385,000- and you think we can somehow compete with skyscraper city Downtown Chicago? Sorry, Severance Hall and University Circle aren't on the Lakefront- but the Rock & Roll HOF is, ditto the Great Lakes Science center. You probably know if you've been to downtown Cleveland lately- all the partying (except on Browns gameday- that's over on the west side around West 9th and the lots) is up at East 4th around Gateway. I don't see any practical way of eliminating the shipping docks, Coast Guard Station, the Marinas and Burke. The Coast Guard is a necessity, and the others are all revenue producers. Sorry it's not culturally up to your standards.
Regarding Dayton- do a little research before you speak about "vibrant". I could come on up to Canal Fulton to take a canal boat ride. Been through there on the bike path.
With a city population of 140,000 Downtown Dayton is booming on a relative level. There's been over a 1\2 billion of development downtown with more coming, and condos are getting sold as fast as developers can build them. https://www.daytondailynews.com/business/economy/see-where-millions-have-been-spent-improve-downtown-dayton/hGhhqD6U2v0w5AoSg0icdL/
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BTW- curious question to those who say First Energy is a waste of Lakefront property- if you tear it down, what's your plan to replace it with that makes it more valuable?
Have you ever been to Chicago? Milwaukee?
Two midwestern cities with a vibrant lakefront scene. Cleveland, on the other hand, has a ton of its downtown lakefront property wasted on a football stadium used a dozen times a year and an airport that almost no one benefits from.
This isn't a newsflash that Cleveland has always squandered its greatest asset.
Have you ever been to Chicago? Milwaukee?
Two midwestern cities with a vibrant lakefront scene. Cleveland, on the other hand, has a ton of its downtown lakefront property wasted on a football stadium used a dozen times a year and an airport that almost no one benefits from.
This isn't a newsflash that Cleveland has always squandered its greatest asset.
I was just talking to a friend yesterday who knows people up there about Lake Erie's shoreline around Geneva and other summer spots that are getting battered by the winter storms and destroying the beaches and shorelines. One big reason no ice on the lake this year to slow the waves.
The federal government has already appropriated funds for the great lakes but this will require a lot of more funds.
Development of Cleveland's lake front should be as important as or go hand and hand with the rock HOF stadiums and other venues........but of course it comes the money.
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This is the last post on my attempt to get you guys/gals to turn on NBCSN at 8:30EST. I will monitor this thread throughout the race in case anyone gives it a try and has any questions regarding the race.
2-1/2hrs until the greatest show on earth begins, and I'll just leave these here..................
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Just do it in the fucking summer it’s not a winter sport where you need snow or ice
Supercross is winter and spring, then the outdoor motocross season starts. These dudes race all year long with only 3 months off. They race in Detroit and Minn with their lids..... They just won't put the fans in an outside stadium in the frozen night time.
SX is in stadiums, while MotoX is on long, natural tracks where they race 2 motos each 45min long plus 2 laps after the time limit..... shit that will end you on a summer day, no matter how fit you are.
Supercross is winter and spring, then the outdoor motocross season starts. These dudes race all year long with only 3 months off. They race in Detroit and Minn with their lids..... They just won't put the fans in an outside stadium in the frozen night time.
SX is in stadiums, while MotoX is on long, natural tracks where they race 2 motos each 45min long plus 2 laps after the time limit..... shit that will end you on a summer day, no matter how fit you are.
Don't know why one would be in winter/spring and one is summer. Aren't they basically the same thing. Guys on bikes racing over heaps of dirt. Dirt bike racing. Dune buggy racing...whatever.
The only things like that I like are the ones where the guys do it on snowboards and on ice skates.
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Not being a native Clevelander or anyone who visits with any regularity l’m not sure l have much to add to this, but l’ll try.
I have some issues with big crowds. Not like anxiety or anything, but it’s a hassle moving through a sea of people and it’s something l consider when attending an event. I’m generally all for anything that “beats people away”, and if cold weather wards off a few ninnies then it’s less people to wade through. Also, a dome might give the “feel” that it’s more packed then what it is.
I also think it’s a good idea to spruce up the Lakefront, like Dutch suggested. Here in Cincy we have “the Banks project” where they’ve been doing just that along the Ohio river. It’s been years in the making, but l gotta say it is quite nice and definitely livens things up between the stadiums.
A devil’s advocate perspective to that is the Ohio river is certainly no Lake Erie. It’ll flood from time to time, but certainly less of the driving winds and bitter cold. So basically, the same elements that make regular repairs to the Browns stadium is going to affect anything you build on the lakefront, so it will have to be maintained with similar frequency.
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Well....we have our own River which is developed all over the place. That is where a lot of the water development takes place: In the Flats.
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Supercross is winter and spring, then the outdoor motocross season starts. These dudes race all year long with only 3 months off. They race in Detroit and Minn with their lids..... They just won't put the fans in an outside stadium in the frozen night time.
SX is in stadiums, while MotoX is on long, natural tracks where they race 2 motos each 45min long plus 2 laps after the time limit..... shit that will end you on a summer day, no matter how fit you are.
Don't know why one would be in winter/spring and one is summer. Aren't they basically the same thing. Guys on bikes racing over heaps of dirt. Dirt bike racing. Dune buggy racing...whatever.
The only things like that I like are the ones where the guys do it on snowboards and on ice skates.
Don't know why one would be in winter/spring and one is summer. Aren't they basically the same thing. Guys on bikes racing over heaps of dirt.
No.
Supercross is held in football stadiums with 100% man made tracks. The tracks are much shorter with more laps making up a race. Lap times are around 2 minutes per lap. The tracks have way more jumps and "rhythm/flow", as well as slower overall top end speeds due to the shorter straight a-ways. All seats in the stadium are great ones.
Motocross is held on outdoor tracks that are 70% natural terrain and 30% man made jumps and whoops (whoops = huge section of 4' tall bumps, like moguls in snow skiing). The track is much, much longer with lap times around 6 minutes per lap. The tracks have much longer and rougher straight a-ways that result in much higher top end speeds than what you'll see tonight. Fans are sprawled out all over a 200-300 acre facility.
Supercross is much more fan friendly and is considered a spectacle of the greatest riders on the planet.
Motocross is the gritty Godfather of the sport and generally preferred to Supercross by us guys that have actually done it.... although I love both.
Yes, it's the same guys on the same bikes doing both disciplines, but much like in NASCAR, it's the difference between a 2.5 mile super speedway like Daytona, and a 15 turn road course like Sonoma..... Same drivers, same cars, yet completely and totally different.
Hope this helps, and hope you give it a fair shot in a couple hours!
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Hardly name calling Dutch. Tour was expressing his personal opinion (which happens to be different) than yours.
There's ways to disagree without resorting to calling someone a racist bigot.
Your feelings hurt because I'm tired of you and Gorka calling each other names? FWIW, I wound up wasting a lot of time deleting what amounted to roughly 30% of the Garrett thread that was just off topic personal insult bullshit.
Sweet Jesus, my post could not have flown any higher over your head if it was flying first class in a 747.
Sweet Jesus, my post could not have flown any higher over your head if it was flying first class in a 747.
Apparently the post you're referring to got deleted before I saw it.
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College basketball is on NBCSN before Supercross and lord knows that with its 100 TOs per team, it will run over into the start of the race. They will show every painful second of the game before finally switching over to Texas Stadium. So for anyone who gives the race a try, it will eventually be on once basketball mercifully ends.
Boy do I love basketball.
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The Jake... Prog...has at least 20-25 years left.
it will be interesting in that time it could very well be a early-mid 90s type scenario again. Browns and Indians looking for new Stadiums. Absolutely nothing wrong with First energy it is as modern as any stadium out there.
I'll add my two cents about First Energy here.
First about putting a dome on it. Can't and won't happen. Structurally wasn't built for one. Putting a bubble over it has already been suggested. Retrofitting it with the requisite HVAC would be a nightmare. If you want a dome, more efficient to start from scratch, and the going rate seems to be around $2 billion to go that route.
As to there being "nothing wrong" with it, I'll disagree. My Bucket List is to see the Browns play in every NFL venue, and I'm about 1\2 way there. When the stadium was built, the goal was to replicate the "feel" of the old place as closely as possible. Bad idea. The concourse behind the stands is woefully cramped (sardine city) compared to almost all of the other stadiums. Paul Brown in Cincinnati has at least triple if not four times the space. I was really hoping when Jimmy poured millions into the stadium renovation, he'd address the shortcomings, but it didn't happen. BTW, when planning for the stadium originally came out, the fan opinion was overwhelming "no dome".
FWIW, by my count, there's 15 teams with the potential of a cold weather game, and three domes. Tells me all I need to know. Apparently there's a lot of wimps afraid of getting their toes cold.
I'll add my two cents about First Energy here.
First about putting a dome on it. Can't and won't happen. Structurally wasn't built for one. Putting a bubble over it has already been suggested. Retrofitting it with the requisite HVAC would be a nightmare. If you want a dome, more efficient to start from scratch, and the going rate seems to be around $2 billion to go that route.
As to there being "nothing wrong" with it, I'll disagree. My Bucket List is to see the Browns play in every NFL venue, and I'm about 1\2 way there. When the stadium was built, the goal was to replicate the "feel" of the old place as closely as possible. Bad idea. The concourse behind the stands is woefully cramped (sardine city) compared to almost all of the other stadiums. Paul Brown in Cincinnati has at least triple if not four times the space. I was really hoping when Jimmy poured millions into the stadium renovation, he'd address the shortcomings, but it didn't happen. BTW, when planning for the stadium originally came out, the fan opinion was overwhelming "no dome".
FWIW, by my count, there's 15 teams with the potential of a cold weather game, and three domes. Tells me all I need to know. Apparently there's a lot of wimps afraid of getting their toes cold.
I think the few criticisms I’ve heard of First Energy are nitpicking.
how and why do you replicate steel beams blocking your view or getting splinters on your backside in the pound? Should they have made an unnatural fit with a baseball field in the stadium too so the seats were further away from the field. It was never going to be close to Municipal Stadium.Of the following I’ve been to the last four years. Is it Jerry World - no. that is in a class by itself.
I’d put it on par with Met Life, Phoenix Stadium, SFs new stadium. Actually I was very unimpressed with SF. It had a roomy concourse but the back concourse didn’t have one f’ing TV you couldn’t even tell you were at a game. The atmosphere around the stadium was very amateurish for an NFL venue. Met Life I got a private tour of it- it was nice I guess. Didn’t actually see a game there but the facility was new but nothing spectacular. Phoenix Stadium I liked more- I saw the 2016 Fiesta Bowl there.
and I went to the final game at the Q our stadium was much better the Qualcomm of course.
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I'm sorry, Cleveland's lakefront is perfect the way it is.
I should have never debated the point with someone who would know so much about vibrant urban areas, since you do live in Dayton, Ohio.
Don't be sarcastic. You still didn't answer my question.
FWIW, Chicago's population is 2.7 million . Cleveland's is 385,000- and you think we can somehow compete with skyscraper city Downtown Chicago? Sorry, Severance Hall and University Circle aren't on the Lakefront- but the Rock & Roll HOF is, ditto the Great Lakes Science center. You probably know if you've been to downtown Cleveland lately- all the partying (except on Browns gameday- that's over on the west side around West 9th and the lots) is up at East 4th around Gateway. I don't see any practical way of eliminating the shipping docks, Coast Guard Station, the Marinas and Burke. The Coast Guard is a necessity, and the others are all revenue producers. Sorry it's not culturally up to your standards.
Regarding Dayton- do a little research before you speak about "vibrant". I could come on up to Canal Fulton to take a canal boat ride. Been through there on the bike path.
With a city population of 140,000 Downtown Dayton is booming on a relative level. There's been over a 1\2 billion of development downtown with more coming, and condos are getting sold as fast as developers can build them. https://www.daytondailynews.com/business/economy/see-where-millions-have-been-spent-improve-downtown-dayton/hGhhqD6U2v0w5AoSg0icdL/
Don't be sarcastic. You still didn't answer my question.
FWIW, Chicago's population is 2.7 million . Cleveland's is 385,000- and you think we can somehow compete with skyscraper city Downtown Chicago? Sorry, Severance Hall and University Circle aren't on the Lakefront- but the Rock & Roll HOF is, ditto the Great Lakes Science center. You probably know if you've been to downtown Cleveland lately- all the partying (except on Browns gameday- that's over on the west side around West 9th and the lots) is up at East 4th around Gateway. I don't see any practical way of eliminating the shipping docks, Coast Guard Station, the Marinas and Burke. The Coast Guard is a necessity, and the others are all revenue producers. Sorry it's not culturally up to your standards.
Regarding Dayton- do a little research before you speak about "vibrant". I could come on up to Canal Fulton to take a canal boat ride. Been through there on the bike path.
With a city population of 140,000 Downtown Dayton is booming on a relative level. There's been over a 1\2 billion of development downtown with more coming, and condos are getting sold as fast as developers can build them. https://www.daytondailynews.com/business/economy/see-where-millions-have-been-spent-improve-downtown-dayton/hGhhqD6U2v0w5AoSg0icdL/
Jesus hoorta, did Gipper steal your password and post under your name all day? ? You started by rambling about some imaginary beef I supposedly was having with Tour (still scratching my head on that one), then we'll move on to....
Did I say that Cleveland needed to have a lakefront JUST LIKE CHICAGO? I said the city of Cleveland should utilize their lakefront LIKE Chicago AND Milwaukee (funny how you never mention the other city in my original post), instead of misusing so much of it like it has for pretty much Cleveland's entire history. There's a reason why people have mentioned how poorly Cleveland utilizes its greatest natural benefit, and that for all intents and purposes Cleveland might as well be located in the middle of Kansas due to how little it does with its lakefront.
Put a boardwalk on it, expand the park system on it, build neighborhoods near it, hotels, restaurants, hell a real aquarium is a great idea actually (I've been to the one in Newport across from Cincinnati, and from what people have told me it destroys Cleveland's.) Cleveland can't build apartments fast enough for downtown, I would have to believe people would love to live near the lake, too. The possibilities are endless, and so much of the lakefront is wasted.
And I was going to make a joke about Dayton being the Youngstown of southwestern Ohio, but I couldn't do that to mjp…. ?
(No better illustration of the complete lack of utilization of Cleveland's lakefront than this photo.)
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Don't know why one would be in winter/spring and one is summer. Aren't they basically the same thing. Guys on bikes racing over heaps of dirt.
No.
Supercross is held in football stadiums with 100% man made tracks. The tracks are much shorter with more laps making up a race. Lap times are around 2 minutes per lap. The tracks have way more jumps and "rhythm/flow", as well as slower overall top end speeds due to the shorter straight a-ways. All seats in the stadium are great ones.
Motocross is held on outdoor tracks that are 70% natural terrain and 30% man made jumps and whoops (whoops = huge section of 4' tall bumps, like moguls in snow skiing). The track is much, much longer with lap times around 6 minutes per lap. The tracks have much longer and rougher straight a-ways that result in much higher top end speeds than what you'll see tonight. Fans are sprawled out all over a 200-300 acre facility.
Supercross is much more fan friendly and is considered a spectacle of the greatest riders on the planet.
Motocross is the gritty Godfather of the sport and generally preferred to Supercross by us guys that have actually done it.... although I love both.
Yes, it's the same guys on the same bikes doing both disciplines, but much like in NASCAR, it's the difference between a 2.5 mile super speedway like Daytona, and a 15 turn road course like Sonoma..... Same drivers, same cars, yet completely and totally different.
Hope this helps, and hope you give it a fair shot in a couple hours!
No.
Supercross is held in football stadiums with 100% man made tracks. The tracks are much shorter with more laps making up a race. Lap times are around 2 minutes per lap. The tracks have way more jumps and "rhythm/flow", as well as slower overall top end speeds due to the shorter straight a-ways. All seats in the stadium are great ones.
Motocross is held on outdoor tracks that are 70% natural terrain and 30% man made jumps and whoops (whoops = huge section of 4' tall bumps, like moguls in snow skiing). The track is much, much longer with lap times around 6 minutes per lap. The tracks have much longer and rougher straight a-ways that result in much higher top end speeds than what you'll see tonight. Fans are sprawled out all over a 200-300 acre facility.
Supercross is much more fan friendly and is considered a spectacle of the greatest riders on the planet.
Motocross is the gritty Godfather of the sport and generally preferred to Supercross by us guys that have actually done it.... although I love both.
Yes, it's the same guys on the same bikes doing both disciplines, but much like in NASCAR, it's the difference between a 2.5 mile super speedway like Daytona, and a 15 turn road course like Sonoma..... Same drivers, same cars, yet completely and totally different.
Hope this helps, and hope you give it a fair shot in a couple hours!
OK, thanks, but no thanks. I won't give it a fair shot, because it is motorized racing, which I have no interest in , of any type really. When they have space racing from here to the Moon and back, I may pay attention. I don't begrudge you your interest..it is just not mine. I just prefer the human powered/gravity/animal powered racing better.
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Don't be sarcastic. You still didn't answer my question.
FWIW, Chicago's population is 2.7 million . Cleveland's is 385,000- and you think we can somehow compete with skyscraper city Downtown Chicago? Sorry, Severance Hall and University Circle aren't on the Lakefront- but the Rock & Roll HOF is, ditto the Great Lakes Science center. You probably know if you've been to downtown Cleveland lately- all the partying (except on Browns gameday- that's over on the west side around West 9th and the lots) is up at East 4th around Gateway. I don't see any practical way of eliminating the shipping docks, Coast Guard Station, the Marinas and Burke. The Coast Guard is a necessity, and the others are all revenue producers. Sorry it's not culturally up to your standards.
Regarding Dayton- do a little research before you speak about "vibrant". I could come on up to Canal Fulton to take a canal boat ride. Been through there on the bike path.
With a city population of 140,000 Downtown Dayton is booming on a relative level. There's been over a 1\2 billion of development downtown with more coming, and condos are getting sold as fast as developers can build them. https://www.daytondailynews.com/business/economy/see-where-millions-have-been-spent-improve-downtown-dayton/hGhhqD6U2v0w5AoSg0icdL/
Jesus hoorta, did Gipper steal your password and post under your name all day? ? You started by rambling about some imaginary beef I supposedly was having with Tour (still scratching my head on that one), then we'll move on to....
Did I say that Cleveland needed to have a lakefront JUST LIKE CHICAGO? I said the city of Cleveland should utilize their lakefront LIKE Chicago AND Milwaukee (funny how you never mention the other city in my original post), instead of misusing so much of it like it has for pretty much Cleveland's entire history. There's a reason why people have mentioned how poorly Cleveland utilizes its greatest natural benefit, and that for all intents and purposes Cleveland might as well be located in the middle of Kansas due to how little it does with its lakefront.
Put a boardwalk on it, expand the park system on it, build neighborhoods near it, hotels, restaurants, hell a real aquarium is a great idea actually (I've been to the one in Newport across from Cincinnati, and from what people have told me it destroys Cleveland's.) Cleveland can't build apartments fast enough for downtown, I would have to believe people would love to live near the lake, too. The possibilities are endless, and so much of the lakefront is wasted.
And I was going to make a joke about Dayton being the Youngstown of southwestern Ohio, but I couldn't do that to mjp…. ?
(No better illustration of the complete lack of utilization of Cleveland's lakefront than this photo.)
Jesus hoorta, did Gipper steal your password and post under your name all day? ? You started by rambling about some imaginary beef I supposedly was having with Tour (still scratching my head on that one), then we'll move on to....
Did I say that Cleveland needed to have a lakefront JUST LIKE CHICAGO? I said the city of Cleveland should utilize their lakefront LIKE Chicago AND Milwaukee (funny how you never mention the other city in my original post), instead of misusing so much of it like it has for pretty much Cleveland's entire history. There's a reason why people have mentioned how poorly Cleveland utilizes its greatest natural benefit, and that for all intents and purposes Cleveland might as well be located in the middle of Kansas due to how little it does with its lakefront.
Put a boardwalk on it, expand the park system on it, build neighborhoods near it, hotels, restaurants, hell a real aquarium is a great idea actually (I've been to the one in Newport across from Cincinnati, and from what people have told me it destroys Cleveland's.) Cleveland can't build apartments fast enough for downtown, I would have to believe people would love to live near the lake, too. The possibilities are endless, and so much of the lakefront is wasted.
And I was going to make a joke about Dayton being the Youngstown of southwestern Ohio, but I couldn't do that to mjp…. ?
(No better illustration of the complete lack of utilization of Cleveland's lakefront than this photo.)
Again, so much of Cleveland's use of its "lakefront" are the activities that happen on the waterfront in the Flats. None of the other major lakefront cities really have that. Toronto/Detroit (which really has no lakefront...it is riverfront), Milwaukee. Maybe Chicago a bit with the Chicago river.
But also notice, that there is a huge marina just eas of Burke, which you see a bit of in the above photo, and there is a huge one at the mouth of the River, on Whiskey Island.
You also have the attractions on the lake: RRHOF, Science Center, Stadium, USS Cod, William Mather, there is an International Women's Air and Space Museum there. You also have Edgewater park. There are quite a number of new condo developments in the Flats. Wendy Park also on Whiskey Island. Settler's Landing plus Rivergate park. The Nautica Stage, etc. etc. And you know, it IS a working major port as well.
Again, what kind of development on the Lakeshore/Riverfront, do you want that is not already there?
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One of THE most impressive things about the Cleveland Lake/Riverfront area are the incredible bridges that you see, be it the one you go over, or under, or just see in the distance. The real nickname of the town should be "Bridge City". They are so numerous I can't even put a photo of them on here. Numerous photos would be required.
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