The me-first, screw-everyone-else crowd
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http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/...opinion/feature
The me-first, screw-everyone-else crowd
Nothing will keep the rich from whining about how tough easy street is
By David Sirota
Aug. 8, 2009 | I know I should be mortified by the lobbyist-organized mobs of angry Brooks Brothers mannequins who are now making headlines by shutting down congressional town hall meetings. I know I should be despondent during this, the Khaki Pants Offensive in the Great American Healthcare and Tax War. And yet, I'm euphorically repeating one word over and over again with a big grin on my face.
Finally.
Finally, there's no pretense. Finally, the me-first, screw-everyone-else crowd's ugliest traits are there for all to behold.
The group's core gripe is summarized in a letter I received that denounces a proposed surtax on the wealthy and corporations to pay for universal healthcare:
"Until recently, my family was in the top 3 percent of wage earners," the affluent businessperson fumed in response to my July column on taxes. "We are in the group that pays close to 60 percent of this nation's taxes ... Think for a second how you would feel if you built a business and contributed more than your share to this country only to be treated like a pariah."
This sob story about the persecuted rich fuels today's "tea parties" -- and I'm sure you've heard some version of it in your community.
I'm also fairly certain that when many of you run into the me-first, screw-everyone-else crowd, you don't feel like confronting the faux outrage. But on the off chance you do muster the masochistic impulse to engage, here's a guide to navigating the conversation:
What they will scream: We can't raise business taxes, because American businesses already pay excessively high taxes!
What you should say: Here's the smallest violin in the world playing for the businesses. The Government Accountability Office reports that most U.S. corporations pay zero federal income tax. Additionally, as even the Bush Treasury Department admitted, America's effective corporate tax rate is the third lowest in the industrialized world.
What they will scream: But the rich still "pay close to 60 percent of this nation's taxes!"
What you should say: Such statistics refer only to the federal income tax. When considering all of "this nation's taxes" including payroll, state and local levies, the top 5 percent pay just 38.5 percent of the taxes.
What they will scream: But 38.5 percent is disproportionately high! See? You've proved that the rich "contribute more than their share" of taxes!
What you should say: Actually, they are paying almost exactly "their share." According to the data, the wealthiest 5 percent of America pays 38.5 percent of the total taxes precisely because they make just about that share -- a whopping 36.5 percent! -- of total national income. Asking these folks to pay slightly more in taxes -- and still less than they did during the go-go 1990s -- is hardly extreme.
Stripped of facts, your conversation partner will soon turn to unscientific terrain, claiming it is immoral to "steal" and "redistribute" income via taxes. Of course, he will be specifically railing on "stealing" for stuff like healthcare, which he insists gets "redistributed" only to the undeserving and the "lazy" (a classic code word for "minorities"). But he will also say it’s OK that government sent trillions of dollars to Wall Streeters.
And that's when you should stop wasting your breath.
What you've discovered is that the me-first, screw-everyone-else crowd isn't interested in fairness, empiricism or morality.
With 22,000 of their fellow countrymen dying annually for lack of health insurance and with Warren Buffett paying a lower effective tax rate than his secretary, the me-first, screw-everyone-else crowd is merely using the argot of fairness, empiricism and morality to hide its real motive: selfish greed.
No argument, however rational, is going to cure these narcissists of that grotesque disease.
2009 Creators.com -
well written article.
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So tell me what is going to happen when the Screw You Crowd decides they are not going to pay for it?
Looking at how many people are against it and are so passionate over not having government ran health care what will obama and pelosi do when they say Screw You! Im not paying for this shit!
Do you think that all of these people are going to sit down and take a back seat?
Will we get a Real Town hall rebellion?
This could go further than just a tea party? People are fed up with the Fed telling them and taking from them as they lord over them and spit on them and there ideal of freedom.
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Where are they going to go? Seriously.
:neutral_face: -
Where are they going to go? Seriously.
Where are they going to go? Seriously.
I am talking about civil unrest. This is coming from both sides on the healthcare issue.
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So Mr. T., basically your response wasn't "Our country isn't comprised of a Screw-you, Me-first crowd," but rather, "Our country IS comprised of a Screw-you, Me-first crowd, and wait till they start shooting" -- seriously?
Wow. That's pretty depressing.
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Where are they going to go? Seriously.
Where are they going to go? Seriously.
Hmmm.
Lets see....
Where do the Kennedys keep a huge portion of their fortune?
The Kerrys?
Grand Caymans? Swiss banks?
Where do manufacturing jobs go?
Right to work states? China?
The world is a big place.
There wasn't much competition in 1955.
Now there is.
WSS
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The world is a big place? So the Wealthy are going to leave the country over the health care related possible tax hikes to other developed countries?
You mean all of the other developed countries who have SOCIALIZED health care?
The world is a big place? So the Wealthy are going to leave the country over the health care related possible tax hikes to other developed countries?
You mean all of the other developed countries who have SOCIALIZED health care?
Those who don't impose as punitive taxes on business as we do Sev.
WSS
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I will pose a question here, When do the top 5% say up yours and refuse to pay anymore taxes?
When you start adding up what most of them are allready paying you are getting close to almost 50% when you add in Fed, State, Local, sales tax and soon obamacare taxes with energy taxes and who knows a VAT that will screw everybody over regardless how much money you earn.
Top 5% wage earners are those who earn $153,542 or more per year before taxes.
consider a family with duel income, thats going to gut them even more, not to mention small business owners who provide the majority of jobs in America.
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The wealthy in the United States are wealthy because at some point in their family, someone provided a product/service that benefited someone else and they were rewarded. I'm not talking about criminals like Enron, etc. I'm talking about legitimate business.
That's how free enterprise works. If you don't provide a good product/service at a good price, someone else will come along and compete with you. If you don't respond, people won't buy your product/service and you'll be out of business.
The more you attack the producer and give to the non-producer, the less incentive the producer has to continue producing. Why bust my hump when the guy sitting on the park bench gets the same deal? I think I'll sit on the park bench. The degree to which you do that is directly related to the poverty of the nation because when you do that enough, eventually the producer stops producing, and when that happens everyone is worse off. The USA is the wealthiest nation in the world because we interfere in free enterprise less than any other nation.
You can examine any nation in history that has done that to a high degree (USSR, Argentina, North Korea, India until recently) and look at how much of the GDP is controlled by government and compare that to how poor the people are.
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this is great....the entrepreneurs that built this country are demonized because others feel they are entitled to something they didn't work for.....
no wonder this country is going into the shitter....no one wants to work for anything anymore. it doesn't matter how much harder, how much more sacrifice somone had to make to get ahead....you have more than i do, your an evil 'i have mine' asshole.
cool, since this is the popular thing, i think once my company goes belly up later this year, i'll just mooch off all the rest of you "lucky" enough to keep working. least maybe i'll get an iphone on the state dollar.
thanks for the healthcare suckers....
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this is cyclical you dont think that potential taxes are accounted for in product/service costs and passed on to the consumer?
Maybe the sum total due to slower sales or total less potential profit is the difference for business owners and entrepreneurs is less salary or slower expansion... Maybe.... or it could be a catalyst for innovation as obstacles often are.
For the top 15% that 2-10% decrease in total profit might be the difference for not buying that extra vacation home or vehicle..
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The world is a big place? So the Wealthy are going to leave the country over the health care related possible tax hikes to other developed countries?
You mean all of the other developed countries who have SOCIALIZED health care?
The world is a big place? So the Wealthy are going to leave the country over the health care related possible tax hikes to other developed countries?
You mean all of the other developed countries who have SOCIALIZED health care?
Psst Sev....
They have socialized health care in Mexico and Korea but here you are.
Egad!!!!
Maybe there's more to it?
WSS
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Steve IF that was some sort of negative cultural comment I am going to ask for you to refrain from that.
My family is in South Korea and some in Mexico, I do go to both countries and own property in both. Not to mention my father was MEXICAN AMERICAN BORN HERE... served in Vietnam, like quite of few of my south korean family as ROK marines in support of the U.S.
I think I am just as much American as you are and proud of my heritage like you seem to be of your scottish descent. Not to mention I have served in support of this country and hold equal citizenship.
Evidently you know little of south korean society and economics. Our free market trillion dollar economy and highest level of scientific literacy in the world and second highest in mathematics literacy along with the highest broadband access and in the top three in I.T. technology in the world.
However because of the crazy amount of power the free market special interest has on healthcare the universal coverage system is deeply flawed.
the laissez faire or lack of controls on specialists practices and overuse of expensive testing and technology by medical centers and the pharm industries unchecked pushing of new expensive drugs (not to mention pharmicists can sell drugs without doctor prescriptions drug lobbyists...)
80% of practicing doctors are "specialists" Almost 90% of all medical rescources (hospital beds) are consumed by private for profit medical companies,
The for profit industries because of the amount of control and how the culture sees business and money are almost in total control of the goverment... kind of like here.......
I am glad your attempted disparaging comment brought up a recent case study in why our system is so screwed up and the for profit industry left unchecked can collapse service and increase costs massively in a advanced economic country. Supply side controls are absolutely necessary to create a stable health care system.... one that we dont have here or in South Korea.
As for one of the reasons I choose my main bulk of living in this country versus others I have options in... It is not economic or economic freedom because I enjoy better access to technology and greater economic freedom in south korea than here.
I have a daughter and do not like the male dominated culture and ideology that is prevalent in south korea, I will not teach my sons to grow up to treat women as objects or expose my daughter to cultural deference because of sex. That is my number one reason of choice of living here than in south Korea the other is a madman that is starving and putting my people in concentration camps and could possibly launch attacks in our 50+ years of this cease fire.
As for my hispanic culture.... considering that they are over 3 generations of when my great great grandfather immigrated to Texas I think that My deceased grandfather serving in WW2 and my father serving in Vietnam qualifies us as being american.... I do have family in Ensanada and spent some time there I dont think that qualifies me as a Mexican citizen.
Keep your attempted cultural derogatory comments to yourself. I think both of my families hispanic here and South Korean have served and supported this country along with myself to qualify me as mostly American that is culturally influenced by two other peoples.
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Steve IF that was some sort of negative cultural comment I am going to ask for you to refrain from that.
My family is in South Korea and some in Mexico, I do go to both countries and own property in both. Not to mention my father was MEXICAN AMERICAN BORN HERE... served in Vietnam, like quite of few of my south korean family as ROK marines in support of the U.S.
I think I am just as much American as you are and proud of my heritage like you seem to be of your scottish descent. Not to mention I have served in support of this country and hold equal citizenship.
Evidently you know little of south korean society and economics. Our free market trillion dollar economy and highest level of scientific literacy in the world and second highest in mathematics literacy along with the highest broadband access and in the top three in I.T. technology in the world.
However because of the crazy amount of power the free market special interest has on healthcare the universal coverage system is deeply flawed.
the laissez faire or lack of controls on specialists practices and overuse of expensive testing and technology by medical centers and the pharm industries unchecked pushing of new expensive drugs (not to mention pharmicists can sell drugs without doctor prescriptions drug lobbyists...)
80% of practicing doctors are "specialists" Almost 90% of all medical rescources (hospital beds) are consumed by private for profit medical companies,
The for profit industries because of the amount of control and how the culture sees business and money are almost in total control of the goverment... kind of like here.......
I am glad your attempted disparaging comment brought up a recent case study in why our system is so screwed up and the for profit industry left unchecked can collapse service and increase costs massively in a advanced economic country. Supply side controls are absolutely necessary to create a stable health care system.... one that we dont have here or in South Korea.
As for one of the reasons I choose my main bulk of living in this country versus others I have options in... It is not economic or economic freedom because I enjoy better access to technology and greater economic freedom in south korea than here.
I have a daughter and do not like the male dominated culture and ideology that is prevalent in south korea, I will not teach my sons to grow up to treat women as objects or expose my daughter to cultural deference because of sex. That is my number one reason of choice of living here than in south Korea the other is a madman that is starving and putting my people in concentration camps and could possibly launch attacks in our 50+ years of this cease fire.
As for my hispanic culture.... considering that they are over 3 generations of when my great great grandfather immigrated to Texas I think that My deceased grandfather serving in WW2 and my father serving in Vietnam qualifies us as being american.... I do have family in Ensanada and spent some time there I dont think that qualifies me as a Mexican citizen.
Keep your attempted cultural derogatory comments to yourself. I think both of my families hispanic here and South Korean have served and supported this country along with myself to qualify me as mostly American that is culturally influenced by two other peoples.
Steve IF that was some sort of negative cultural comment I am going to ask for you to refrain from that.
Spare me your faux outrage Sev.
You made the smart ass statement that it'd be ridiculous that someone might leave the US due to excessive taxation to go to a country that already has SOCIALIZED MEDICINE.
So I point out that some of your own people LEFT COUNTRIES WITH SOCIALIZED MEDICINE to come here.
If you read your own shit it might become clearer.
WSS
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Let me guess "faux" outrage? really.... most likely a guy like you never served or have lived outside the country to really know anything except in your own little microcosm.
"my" own countryman..... left "socialized" medicine you must mean South Korean health care I assume.... Like you normally do you make generalizations about which your ignorance is glaring......
READ slowly..... 90 % of all medical resources are owned by private for profit health care companies.... 80% of of all doctors are classified as specialists..... drugs can be sold by any pharmacist....
South Korea may have a centralized health admin plan but the supply side of the system is not regulated or controlled nor are 90% assets..... Thats just called window dressing...... I know in your total ignorance of South korean well anything you like to make little stupid generalizations about terminology like "socialist healthcare" but one you nothing about. Which like usual is your normal MO.
Like other topics your mouth talks about things your mind knows nothing about. Stick to singing your folk songs in Hibernian halls and bars leave topics like health care for adults. I would assume my family serving in two wars here and immigrated over 100 years ago from Mexico should define them as Americans... I bet My south korean family has done more Serving American causes than you ever have.
You know whats funny about your stances is you are one of the idiots that democratic reform would help massively and these "freedoms and tax cuts" that your level of income would never reach to be taxed in the first place. I am sure with all of your shows my guess is you pay very little taxes anyways....
Seriously Steve at least Cal trys to post information from some source to back up his positions you just make little quips and generalizations mixed with some sarcasm... pretty much useless as any sort of contributor. Just one of those idiots who show up shouting at these town halls that does not know anything but knows to yell and make useless noise.
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Let me guess "faux" outrage? really.... most likely a guy like you never served or have lived outside the country to really know anything except in your own little microcosm.
"my" own countryman..... left "socialized" medicine you must mean South Korean health care I assume.... Like you normally do you make generalizations about which your ignorance is glaring......
READ slowly..... 90 % of all medical resources are owned by private for profit health care companies.... 80% of of all doctors are classified as specialists..... drugs can be sold by any pharmacist....
South Korea may have a centralized health admin plan but the supply side of the system is not regulated or controlled nor are 90% assets..... Thats just called window dressing...... I know in your total ignorance of South korean well anything you like to make little stupid generalizations about terminology like "socialist healthcare" but one you nothing about. Which like usual is your normal MO.
Like other topics your mouth talks about things your mind knows nothing about. Stick to singing your folk songs in Hibernian halls and bars leave topics like health care for adults. I would assume my family serving in two wars here and immigrated over 100 years ago from Mexico should define them as Americans... I bet My south korean family has done more Serving American causes than you ever have.
You know whats funny about your stances is you are one of the idiots that democratic reform would help massively and these "freedoms and tax cuts" that your level of income would never reach to be taxed in the first place. I am sure with all of your shows my guess is you pay very little taxes anyways....
Seriously Steve at least Cal trys to post information from some source to back up his positions you just make little quips and generalizations mixed with some sarcasm... pretty much useless as any sort of contributor. Just one of those idiots who show up shouting at these town halls that does not know anything but knows to yell and make useless noise.
Let me guess "faux" outrage? really.... most likely a guy like you never served or have lived outside the country to really know anything except in your own little microcosm.
"my" own countryman..... left "socialized" medicine you must mean South Korean health care I assume.... Like you normally do you make generalizations about which your ignorance is glaring......
Read Slowly:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlere...i?artid=1447690
I am sure with all of your shows my guess is you pay very little taxes anyways....
I'm sure you know less about that even than most shit you pretend to be an expert in.
I claim it all dickhead and pay self employment and SS and my own health care.
Seriously Steve at least Cal trys to post information from some source to back up his positions you just make little quips and generalizations mixed with some sarcasm... pretty much useless as any sort of contributor. Just one of those idiots who show up shouting at these town halls that does not know anything but knows to yell and make useless noise.
Kiss my ass Sev.
Seriously.
You whiners so often try to accuse everybody of racial slurs.
It's bullshit and you know it, but it's easier than reality.
I've NEVER spoken ONE ill word about your f*cking heritage.
I pointed out (after your stupid statememt) that somebody just might want to come to a horrible place without universal health care like the nasty old USA.
So I looked it up before I made the comment.
Also in Mexico the government subsidizes a cheap plan.
So while I'd never and have never insulted anyone of Mexican or Korean background I will loudly say I think you're often a pompous disingenuous hypocritical quisling for the president but that it has absolutely NOTHING to do with ethnics.
And no I didn't join the army.
Neither did Obammy.
WSS
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im sure you "claim" everything.... like the rest of the bar entertainment industry.... Try that bs on someone else..
That article funny I hope you actually read it BECAUSE EVERYTHING I STATED ABOUT SOUTH KOREAN MEDICINE WAS IN THERE ALSO... idiot posting information that only backs up everything i stated.
Thanks for verifying basically what I thought you were, uninformed and my Korean family actually supporting more U.S. causes than anything you ever did. Unless you call that music you produce for psychological warfare against enemy combatants.
I have an idea why dont you go to another town hall and start screaming about topics you dont understand or care to... At least with those people you have something in common with..... mindless, zombielike, uneducated devotion to ignorance......
I am sure your federal tax income contribution is equivelent to your education level..... which from your posts and obvious ignorance LOW to MEDIOCRE...
Its hard to pigeonhole anyone from random posts but I think in your case its pretty evident. Did you even read that article you posted? the stats or the terminology? like SUPPLY SIDE CONTROLS? or even the same exact stats I stated about private ownership? good god you are a dimwit.
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im sure you "claim" everything.... like the rest of the bar entertainment industry.... Try that bs on someone else..
That article funny I hope you actually read it BECAUSE EVERYTHING I STATED ABOUT SOUTH KOREAN MEDICINE WAS IN THERE ALSO... idiot posting information that only backs up everything i stated.
Thanks for verifying basically what I thought you were, uninformed and my Korean family actually supporting more U.S. causes than anything you ever did. Unless you call that music you produce for psychological warfare against enemy combatants.
I have an idea why dont you go to another town hall and start screaming about topics you dont understand or care to... At least with those people you have something in common with..... mindless, zombielike, uneducated devotion to ignorance......
I am sure your federal tax income contribution is equivelent to your education level..... which from your posts and obvious ignorance LOW to MEDIOCRE...
Its hard to pigeonhole anyone from random posts but I think in your case its pretty evident. Did you even read that article you posted? the stats or the terminology? like SUPPLY SIDE CONTROLS? or even the same exact stats I stated about private ownership? good god you are a dimwit.
Did you even read that article you posted? the stats or the terminology? like SUPPLY SIDE CONTROLS? or even the same exact stats I stated about private ownership? good god you are a dimwit.
"SOUTH KOREA ACHIEVED universal health insurance in 12 years. This remarkable achievement started modestly in 1977 when the government mandated medical insurance for employees and their dependents in large firms with more than 500 employees. In 1989, national health insurance (NHI) was extended to the whole nation."
So tell me how the Obama plan differs.
Or tell me anything the Omaba plan does.
Or anything the Obama plan doesn't do.
Or be honest and say you have no clue.
Or be more honest and say "Sorry Steve, I realize nobody insulted my ethnic background."
Or just STFU.
WSS
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