The GOAT is Leaving New England... And Going to Tampa
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We're all wrong.... Gipper's right... even Gipper says so... incessantly...
Matters not that it's a debate of opinions... which Gipper labeled Gorka's articles as being.... because Gipper's opinions are fact... cause math.... or at least numbers...
Engineers love numbers... I was an engineer and I still love them, so I want to play, too.
It was easier for Otto because there were fewer teams and Paul Brown only coached one of those teams.
There... I said it.... and if we still had Signatures, then I'd put it in my Sig.
Now for the "fewer teams" numbers...
- In their first three, AAFC seasons there were only seven other teams divided into two, four-team divisions. In the league's 4th and last season there were six others.
- Each of the first three, regular seasons were 14 games long. The 4th was 12 games long.
- In the AAFC's first two seasons there was a one-game playoff. In the 3rd there were two playoff games because two teams in the Division opposite the Browns finished tied for first and had to playoff for the right to lose to the Browns, who had a Bye week. In the 4th and last there were 3 playoff games, two semi's and the Championship.
- The NFL's regulation seasons were 12 games long. There were one-game playoffs.
Now some Paul Brown numbers...
- During Graham's 10-yr career, spanning '46 thru '55, Paul's Defense ranked first in the league (AAFC or NFL) in fewest points allowed 8 times. The other two years it ranked 2nd. Both of the latter were NFL seasons
- By contrast Paul's Otto-led Offense ranked 1st in points scored three times; 2nd three times; 3rd twice; and 4th twice. All four times we ranked 3rd or lower were NFL seasons.
- For those who prefer total yards as the measure of an Offense: 1st thrice; 2nd once; 3rd twice; 4th once; 5th once; 6th once; and 8th once. The 8th place season was the only one that Motley did not lead the team in rushing during his Browns' career.
Miscellany...
- Excepting his final season Otto's receivers were Dante Lavelli and Max Speedie... both are in the HOF.
- For eight of his ten seasons Otto's FB was HOF'er, Marion Motley.
- For his final eight seasons Otto's HB was 2-time, All-Pro Dub Jones... the player that lead the team in rushing the season that Motley did not. Jones was a very good receiving HB.
- Four of Otto's six highest Passer Rating seasons were in the AAFC and those four included his two best seasons.
Bottom line...
Browns were far and away the class of an inferior league in it's AAFC days. Throughout Otto's career the most consistent facet of the team was it's high-performing Defense. Throughout his HOF career Otto was surrounded by HOF skill players and the team was coached by a HOF coach.
Otto was great... no doubt about it... and there were things that worked against him, e.g., a less than pass-friendly ball and slower travel, but the game was much simpler and he faced defenses that were far less sophisticated than what we see.
So best of his era? Sure...
GOAT? Nope... for me that man ison his way to Tampa.
I can hardly wait to see how wrong my opinion is...
AGain.....it is a matter of recency bias that to your mind makes your opinion correct. Which means that you are not necessarily wrong, but you cannot by any objective measure prove you are right. The only objective measure is the record, and Otto wins there....in my opinion.
And again, as was said, it is merely a matter of guys playing in different eras.
Brady the Goat of his era. Unitas Goat of his era. Montana Goat of his era. Otto Goat of his era. So, arguably any of those could be argued to be the Goat.
Again, if it was so easy for Otto, and the Browns to go to those 10 in a row Championship games, then why has no team at any other time in history, before, during or after Otto's time ever gone to more than 4 in a row, . (and only one team did that: Bills, losing all 4).
AGain.....it is a matter of recency bias that to your mind makes your opinion correct. Which means that you are not necessarily wrong, but you cannot by any objective measure prove you are right. The only objective measure is the record, and Otto wins there....in my opinion.
And again, as was said, it is merely a matter of guys playing in different eras.
Brady the Goat of his era. Unitas Goat of his era. Montana Goat of his era. Otto Goat of his era. So, arguably any of those could be argued to be the Goat.
Again, if it was so easy for Otto, and the Browns to go to those 10 in a row Championship games, then why has no team at any other time in history, before, during or after Otto's time ever gone to more than 4 in a row, . (and only one team did that: Bills, losing all 4).
No, for the simple fact that Greatest Of All Time means just that, OF ALL TME. To say "greatest of all time of his era" would be nonsensical, oxymoronish. However, to say "greatest from his era" would obviously make perfect sense.
Cant quite come up with an acronym using "era"...so lets go with GOHT, pronounced the same as GOAT, except it stands for Greatest Of His Time.
"Recency bias" is a factor for me, not because of recent memory, but because the more recent the player, the more bigger, stronger, and faster he his.
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Jim Brown in my opinion was the GOHT, not the GOAT. In his prime he would be a starter today but definitely not a HOF'er.
If I could start a team and select players from any era in their prime, JB wouldn't make the cut because of the era he played in...no more than Jim Thorpe would be because of the era he played in.
Players like Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, Earl Campbell, Adrian Peterson, even our own Nick Chubb and a host of others playing today...them be the ones I'd pick.
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Hey Gipper, I'm almost positive this team, The Akron Pros, could not compete with...
...this team, the 1933 NFL Champs Bears, who could not compete with...
...this team, the 64 Browns, who could not compete with...
...this team, the 78 Steelers, who could not compete with ….
this team, the 2017 Browns.
But that's just my opinion.lol
I bet there wasn't a player on that Steeler team over 275 lbs.
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Jim Brown in my opinion was the GOHT, not the GOAT. In his prime he would be a starter today but definitely not a HOF'er.
If I could start a team and select players from any era in their prime, JB wouldn't make the cut because of the era he played in...no more than Jim Thorpe would be because of the era he played in.
Players like Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, Earl Campbell, Adrian Peterson, even our own Nick Chubb and a host of others playing today...them be the ones I'd pick.
Jim Brown in my opinion was the GOHT, not the GOAT. In his prime he would be a starter today but definitely not a HOF'er.
If I could start a team and select players from any era in their prime, JB wouldn't make the cut because of the era he played in...no more than Jim Thorpe would be because of the era he played in.
Players like Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, Earl Campbell, Adrian Peterson, even our own Nick Chubb and a host of others playing today...them be the ones I'd pick.
JB was as fast as many of the fastest today and as powerful as Earl, so you'd be making a big mistake. You know, kinda like the Browns not taking Derrick Henry. ?
Now if I knew he would remain healthy, I would draft the 4.12 40 times Bo Jackson, greatest back I ever saw in person.
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Jim Brown in my opinion was the GOHT, not the GOAT. In his prime he would be a starter today but definitely not a HOF'er.
If I could start a team and select players from any era in their prime, JB wouldn't make the cut because of the era he played in...no more than Jim Thorpe would be because of the era he played in.
Players like Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, Earl Campbell, Adrian Peterson, even our own Nick Chubb and a host of others playing today...them be the ones I'd pick.
JB was as fast as many of the fastest today and as powerful as Earl, so you'd be making a big mistake. You know, kinda like the Browns not taking Derrick Henry. ?
Now if I knew he would remain healthy, I would draft the 4.12 40 times Bo Jackson, greatest back I ever saw in person.
JB was as fast as many of the fastest today and as powerful as Earl, so you'd be making a big mistake. You know, kinda like the Browns not taking Derrick Henry. ?
Now if I knew he would remain healthy, I would draft the 4.12 40 times Bo Jackson, greatest back I ever saw in person.
Bo Jackson, now there's another one.
Yeah I saw films of JB running over guys his size and smaller. But don't you think that if either Earl Campbell for his power or Barry Sanders with his speed and elusiveness would crush JB's records if they played back then? I do.
Conversely, I just don't see JB performing at such a high level in todays NFL.
Fuck, Barry Sanders would have so many of those slow white guys juked out of their jock straps it wouldn't be funny.
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AGain.....it is a matter of recency bias that to your mind makes your opinion correct. Which means that you are not necessarily wrong, but you cannot by any objective measure prove you are right. The only objective measure is the record, and Otto wins there....in my opinion.
And again, as was said, it is merely a matter of guys playing in different eras.
Brady the Goat of his era. Unitas Goat of his era. Montana Goat of his era. Otto Goat of his era. So, arguably any of those could be argued to be the Goat.
Again, if it was so easy for Otto, and the Browns to go to those 10 in a row Championship games, then why has no team at any other time in history, before, during or after Otto's time ever gone to more than 4 in a row, . (and only one team did that: Bills, losing all 4).
No, for the simple fact that Greatest Of All Time means just that, OF ALL TME. To say "greatest of all time of his era" would be nonsensical, oxymoronish. However, to say "greatest from his era" would obviously make perfect sense.
Cant quite come up with an acronym using "era"...so lets go with GOHT, pronounced the same as GOAT, except it stands for Greatest Of His Time.
"Recency bias" is a factor for me, not because of recent memory, but because the more recent the player, the more bigger, stronger, and faster he his.
No, for the simple fact that Greatest Of All Time means just that, OF ALL TME. To say "greatest of all time of his era" would be nonsensical, oxymoronish. However, to say "greatest from his era" would obviously make perfect sense.
Cant quite come up with an acronym using "era"...so lets go with GOHT, pronounced the same as GOAT, except it stands for Greatest Of His Time.
"Recency bias" is a factor for me, not because of recent memory, but because the more recent the player, the more bigger, stronger, and faster he his.
No one would ever claim that Tom Brady would fit into the stronger/faster mode than anyone else. Taller yea. Heavier...due to being taller, yea.
So, what you have to go back to then is either longevity....or winning. Brady obviously has longevity....if that means anything (Vinny Testaverde played just as long).
And there is winning. Again, do the math.
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Jim Brown in my opinion was the GOHT, not the GOAT. In his prime he would be a starter today but definitely not a HOF'er.
If I could start a team and select players from any era in their prime, JB wouldn't make the cut because of the era he played in...no more than Jim Thorpe would be because of the era he played in.
Players like Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, Earl Campbell, Adrian Peterson, even our own Nick Chubb and a host of others playing today...them be the ones I'd pick.
Jim Brown in my opinion was the GOHT, not the GOAT. In his prime he would be a starter today but definitely not a HOF'er.
See...now you are just being ignorant.
If I could start a team and select players from any era in their prime, JB wouldn't make the cut because of the era he played in...no more than Jim Thorpe would be because of the era he played in.
You are compounding your ignorance.
Players like Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, Earl Campbell, Adrian Peterson, even our own Nick Chubb and a host of others playing today...them be the ones I'd pick.
And now you are in the area where an award for most ignorance displayed on the Browns Board should bear your name. Jim Brown combined the elusiveness of Barry Sanders with the power of Earl Campbell and the heart of Walter Payton. And FYI, while JB was taller than Earl, they both weighed the same.
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Hey Gipper, I'm almost positive this team, The Akron Pros, could not compete with...
...this team, the 1933 NFL Champs Bears, who could not compete with...
...this team, the 64 Browns, who could not compete with...
...this team, the 78 Steelers, who could not compete with ….
this team, the 2017 Browns.
But that's just my opinion.lol
I bet there wasn't a player on that Steeler team over 275 lbs.
Hey Gipper, I'm almost positive this team, The Akron Pros, could not compete with...
...this team, the 1933 NFL Champs Bears, who could not compete with...
...this team, the 64 Browns, who could not compete with...
...this team, the 78 Steelers, who could not compete with ….
this team, the 2017 Browns.
But that's just my opinion.lol
I bet there wasn't a player on that Steeler team over 275 lbs.
Again, just the recency bias. You have to put teams in their place.
By your point of view, no team from a decade ago even could compete with a team from 2020.
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JB was as fast as many of the fastest today and as powerful as Earl, so you'd be making a big mistake. You know, kinda like the Browns not taking Derrick Henry. ?
Now if I knew he would remain healthy, I would draft the 4.12 40 times Bo Jackson, greatest back I ever saw in person.
Bo Jackson, now there's another one.
Yeah I saw films of JB running over guys his size and smaller. But don't you think that if either Earl Campbell for his power or Barry Sanders with his speed and elusiveness would crush JB's records if they played back then? I do.
Conversely, I just don't see JB performing at such a high level in todays NFL.
Fuck, Barry Sanders would have so many of those slow white guys juked out of their jock straps it wouldn't be funny.
Bo Jackson, now there's another one.
Yeah I saw films of JB running over guys his size and smaller. But don't you think that if either Earl Campbell for his power or Barry Sanders with his speed and elusiveness would crush JB's records if they played back then? I do.
Conversely, I just don't see JB performing at such a high level in todays NFL.
Fuck, Barry Sanders would have so many of those slow white guys juked out of their jock straps it wouldn't be funny.
You do realize, don't you, that Earl Campbell played only like 10 years after Jim Brown did....and that he too was playing against those same basic slow white guys.
Their is a term called absolute zero..which is the lowest limit on the thermodynamic scale. You have just reached Absolute Ignorance.
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Mike Tyson was also the GOAT....
..... that should keep him busy.
You staked that claim.
Defend it.
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I don't know why, but I just have never liked the guy.
The fact that he owned the Steelers in the playoffs really helped me to like him.
One day ( I hope) the Browns will own the Steelers again, and win the dam AFC North consistently.
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Plus no more hearing "Got Six?" from steeler fans.
"GOT 13" from Northeast Ohio football fans?
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Hey Gipper, I'm almost positive this team, The Akron Pros, could not compete with...
...this team, the 1933 NFL Champs Bears, who could not compete with...
...this team, the 64 Browns, who could not compete with...
...this team, the 78 Steelers, who could not compete with ….
this team, the 2017 Browns.
But that's just my opinion.lol
I bet there wasn't a player on that Steeler team over 275 lbs.
Again, just the recency bias. You have to put teams in their place.
By your point of view, no team from a decade ago even could compete with a team from 2020.
You have to put teams in their place.
Isn't that what Gorka did?
Gip, you harp on "recency bias" in others. Aren't you practicing "relativity bias"? Totally appropriate for eras... not so much for "all-time".
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Hey Gipper, I'm almost positive this team, The Akron Pros, could not compete with...
...this team, the 1933 NFL Champs Bears, who could not compete with...
...this team, the 64 Browns, who could not compete with...
...this team, the 78 Steelers, who could not compete with ….
this team, the 2017 Browns.
But that's just my opinion.lol
I bet there wasn't a player on that Steeler team over 275 lbs.
I bet there wasn't a player on that Steeler team over 275 lbs.
I used to play a PC game named NFL Head Coach. During breaks when it was loading a different segment of the game it used images including quotes from the great HCs of the past.
One fav of mine was Chuck Nolls'...
"Some coaches pray for wisdom. I pray for 275-pound Tackles. They'll make me seem wise."
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
You have to put teams in their place.
Isn't that what Gorka did?
Gip, you harp on "recency bias" in others. Aren't you practicing "relativity bias"? Totally appropriate for eras... not so much for "all-time".
Isn't that what Gorka did?
No, it isn't. He went beyond that by far.
Gip, you harp on "recency bias" in others. Aren't you practicing "relativity bias"? Totally appropriate for eras... not so much for "all-time".
So, you want to have your cake and eat it too?
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I bet there wasn't a player on that Steeler team over 275 lbs.
I used to play a PC game named NFL Head Coach. During breaks when it was loading a different segment of the game it used images including quotes from the great HCs of the past.
One fav of mine was Chuck Nolls'...
"Some coaches pray for wisdom. I pray for 275-pound Tackles. They'll make me seem wise."
I used to play a PC game named NFL Head Coach. During breaks when it was loading a different segment of the game it used images including quotes from the great HCs of the past.
One fav of mine was Chuck Nolls'...
"Some coaches pray for wisdom. I pray for 275-pound Tackles. They'll make me seem wise."
Good one from Noll...he himself a 220lb starting guard for the Browns.
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Hey Gipper, I'm almost positive this team, The Akron Pros, could not compete with...
...this team, the 1933 NFL Champs Bears, who could not compete with...
...this team, the 64 Browns, who could not compete with...
...this team, the 78 Steelers, who could not compete with ….
this team, the 2017 Browns.
But that's just my opinion.lol
I bet there wasn't a player on that Steeler team over 275 lbs.
Again, just the recency bias. You have to put teams in their place.
By your point of view, no team from a decade ago even could compete with a team from 2020.
Again, just the recency bias. You have to put teams in their place.
Where is the disconnect here? I just did put them in their place. In their era these teams were the best, the same goes for individual star players.
As the decades pass, the players get bigger, faster, and stronger... and more talented.
HOF'er Gene Hickerson, a 248lb guard was hellava player...and I am putting him in his place when I say he would get tossed around like a ragdoll today.
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Again, just the recency bias. You have to put teams in their place.
Where is the disconnect here? I just did put them in their place. In their era these teams were the best, the same goes for individual star players.
As the decades pass, the players get bigger, faster, and stronger... and more talented.
HOF'er Gene Hickerson, a 248lb guard was hellava player...and I am putting him in his place when I say he would get tossed around like a ragdoll today.
Where is the disconnect here? I just did put them in their place. In their era these teams were the best, the same goes for individual star players.
As the decades pass, the players get bigger, faster, and stronger... and more talented.
HOF'er Gene Hickerson, a 248lb guard was hellava player...and I am putting him in his place when I say he would get tossed around like a ragdoll today.
The disconnect is this: what you don't get is that if he played today, Gene Hickerson would receive the same training, nutrition, etc. that today's players do. He probably WOULD have weighed 300 LBs.
Again, the only players that have gotten bigger are OL and DL. (and we do not really know if in fact they are faster and stronger, as those things were not really measured in the old days.)
But my issue with you is re: Jim Brown.
Jim Brown was bigger, faster, and stronger than the RBs that ARE playing TODAY. He would have been, likely, by far the best runner in the game today.
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"GOT 13?" from Northeast Ohio football fans?
LOL. The only problem is that no one cares.
...btw you were supposed to put a question mark after GOT 23.
Now "Got 16?" I have a much higher regard for because at least the Packers won NFL Championships.
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